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grimsby pete
December 26, 2018, 8:04pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from FishOutOfWater


Think that way myself Pete... it's the political equivalent of footballers running the clock down, feigning injury and keeping the ball close to the corner flag, in the knowledge that if they can waste time at every opportunity and see things out in additioonal time, there's a replay looming

Anyway as it stands, in or out, there's nothing the likes of me or you can do about this.... May made it pretty clear in PMQs that she thinks this whole is process is some kind of laughable pantomime

Thank goodness we have football to distract us....All Town aren't we!

Btw a belated Merry Christmas to you and yours and all the best for 2019!


Have a very happy new year Tim, Town are begining to click now,

Who knows how good we can be with 2 or 3 good signings



                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                           65 Years following the Town
                            Ian Holloway's  Black and White Army.
                                                UTMM

 
                            
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KingstonMariner
December 27, 2018, 2:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Marinerz93


In fairness everyone I have met in 'real life' off the fishy has been spot on, so I wouldn't doubt what you say for one minute. Differing views and opinions is what makes this a great board. We all get frustrated with different topics especially when we all want or wholeheartedly believe whats is best.


Aye. We're all passionate about stuff. The one thing that unites us is Town. Actually, two things unite us. We all love our country too.

I get carried away and forget those things now and again.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
December 27, 2018, 2:38am Report to Moderator
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I was trying to find the post which said the EU Army was a bad idea because of inter-country rivalry (and the poster cited NATO exercises where French and then Germans brought along increasingly senior officers so they could take command). That's exactly why a united army is necessary. A single unified command structure (under one federal state) will make it work.

Just like the nascent 'United' States did when they rebelled against Britain. They had to create the Continental Congress and the Continental Army (and ultimately a common currency). Before that they were 13 rival states that Britain would have picked off at will. I don't think they ever put it to the electorate. The state legislatures just did it.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Marinerz93
December 27, 2018, 2:07pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KingstonMariner
I was trying to find the post which said the EU Army was a bad idea because of inter-country rivalry (and the poster cited NATO exercises where French and then Germans brought along increasingly senior officers so they could take command). That's exactly why a united army is necessary. A single unified command structure (under one federal state) will make it work.

Just like the nascent 'United' States did when they rebelled against Britain. They had to create the Continental Congress and the Continental Army (and ultimately a common currency). Before that they were 13 rival states that Britain would have picked off at will. I don't think they ever put it to the electorate. The state legislatures just did it.




I cited the one up man-ship of rank pulling that goes on in NATO and every country does it, if you think that an EU army will be united in any way shape or form, it won't. It'll be disjointed and you'll have more political involvement than we do now. There won't be a specific EU Army, Navy or Airforce as there is already a structure in place where Germany control so many other countries armies under an EU banner, just like NATO banner. I can't see people going to join a specific EU army, Navy or Airforce, The cost is one thing that will definitely spiral out of control and who is going to pay for it. We will be talking billions here, the EU wastes millions moving offices every month just think of the waste of money as headquarters gets moved around to suit the Field Marshalls/generals at the time of command, that's if they take turns.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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KingstonMariner
January 3, 2019, 1:17am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Marinerz93




I cited the one up man-ship of rank pulling that goes on in NATO and every country does it, if you think that an EU army will be united in any way shape or form, it won't. It'll be disjointed and you'll have more political involvement than we do now. There won't be a specific EU Army, Navy or Airforce as there is already a structure in place where Germany control so many other countries armies under an EU banner, just like NATO banner. I can't see people going to join a specific EU army, Navy or Airforce, The cost is one thing that will definitely spiral out of control and who is going to pay for it. We will be talking billions here, the EU wastes millions moving offices every month just think of the waste of money as headquarters gets moved around to suit the Field Marshalls/generals at the time of command, that's if they take turns.


The whole point is that with a federal Europe and a EU army there'll be a single command structure. No need to rotate it. There'll be fewer problems than there would be with NATO. Or are you saying that there isn't a problem with NATO because the Americans are in charge? In which case, we've opted to give up membership of a federation where we get a say on what happens to being a vassal state where important decisions are made by the baseball cap wearing denizens of Hicksville, Odahio.

Sure the project will take decades to reach a level that the policy framework is bedded in. But ultimately that's got to happen. Europe needs to be in a position to defend itself - as you pointed out elsewhere, 'why should America(n taxpayers) pay for Europe's defence' (actually for the very good reason that it's in the US' interests not to have Europe controlled by an antagonistic power). It's better able to defend itself with a unified command structure and political unity. Worked well for the US.

I think you also mentioned the prospect of an EU army being seen as a threat by the Russians. Like they don't see NATO as a threat? They've been bleating for years about NATO anti-missile shields, NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, NATO encircling Russia in central Asia, the Caucasus etc. There would be more legitimacy in EU troops patrolling the borders of the Baltic states than American ones.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Skrill
January 3, 2019, 8:35pm Report to Moderator

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With an EU Federation, Europe would end up with a scenario like Yugoslavia. One main reason for the breakup of Yugoslavia was because of the head of the collective presidency was rotated between representatives of the different republics. Authority being passed around. People don't like being told what to do by other nations.

What would an EU Army stand for? Globalism, censorship, taxation without representation, regulation. All while headed by corruptible failed former European PMs/Presidents and suspiciously elected and unaccountable EU Commission. Also making in-efficient, cost in-effective militarises bloated by more bureaucracy, when we already have a vast array of military branches and in addition we'd lose our proud regimental history. (As what would happen if absorbed into an EU Army) Yeah fantastic.


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Marinerz93
January 5, 2019, 11:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KingstonMariner


The whole point is that with a federal Europe and a EU army there'll be a single command structure. No need to rotate it. There'll be fewer problems than there would be with NATO. Or are you saying that there isn't a problem with NATO because the Americans are in charge? In which case, we've opted to give up membership of a federation where we get a say on what happens to being a vassal state where important decisions are made by the baseball cap wearing denizens of Hicksville, Odahio.

Sure the project will take decades to reach a level that the policy framework is bedded in. But ultimately that's got to happen. Europe needs to be in a position to defend itself - as you pointed out elsewhere, 'why should America(n taxpayers) pay for Europe's defence' (actually for the very good reason that it's in the US' interests not to have Europe controlled by an antagonistic power). It's better able to defend itself with a unified command structure and political unity. Worked well for the US.

I think you also mentioned the prospect of an EU army being seen as a threat by the Russians. Like they don't see NATO as a threat? They've been bleating for years about NATO anti-missile shields, NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, NATO encircling Russia in central Asia, the Caucasus etc. There would be more legitimacy in EU troops patrolling the borders of the Baltic states than American ones.


The EU falls down on command of operations, only the British, French (much lower than UK), have any real command of operations that are in the EU.

The US hicks have an enormous amount of experience in operations and have been funding NATO more or less since it was formed and are a superpower and you think an over zealous Belgian MEP with holes in his pockets and plans of dominance, can match the infrastructure needed to replace NATO, the US can call on spy satellites to unmanned drones. This has cost billions to put in place and the rest of the EU are so far behind it's like looking at the Flintstones taking on Predator.

Putin has bemoaned that he feels the US/NATO have surrounded Russia the difference is the language used, Verhofstadt has made speeches in Brussels that the EU Army must front up to Russia, a show of force, is that not a more aggressive stance than what NATO has done.

An EU federal army won't happen, far too expensive, you may get a officer command training station, what will happen and is happening is each country will submit command of it's forces to France or Germany like it currently does now so deployable, interoperable force under a single command carrying out EU foreign policy. You still haven't addressed the cost, some of the EU countries are putting less than the agreed 2% of GDP into defence of their own countries and you think that an EU army can replace NATO.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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codcheeky
January 15, 2019, 7:44pm Report to Moderator
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Surely May will resign?
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LH
January 15, 2019, 7:57pm Report to Moderator

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They’re all in this together. The Commons sure won’t let her and them continue? We go to a general election and this shitshow gets another series.
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forza ivano
January 15, 2019, 8:51pm Report to Moderator

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You won't be getting a general election. Turkeys won't vote for Xmas!
A spectacular loss, in fact I 'd dare to say that is quite an incredible achievement to spend so much time and effort on an agreement that was defeated by so many. And don't forget she has c 80-90 votes tied up by all the tories on the government payroll ( in fact that may be as much as 125) so in reality she got c100 votes out of a possible 560. That takes some doing o alienate so many different people. When she took over and spoke so eloquently about uniting people, I didn't really think she would take t this far  
Matt hancocks shell shocked face was a picture!
Let's hope they have some indicative votes and the sensible heads on both sides get together and force through a Norway type deal which is about the only thing which can get through

Incidentally nobody seems to have raised the following possibility. We exit on either Norway or no deal terms. We then have a general election a couple of years later, by which time we've got a good idea as to how the new arrangement is working.There is absolutely nothing to stop either the tories or labour saying in their manifesto, right the present arrangement hasn't worked , if we get elected we will rejoin the e.u. / exit the present arrangements for wto rules/ apply to join efta or the eea


Ps one other thought. Why couldn't we have a second referendum solely on the 3 brexit options? The May deal / Norway/ no deal?  (I've remaining in the e.u. Isn't an option)That would be respecting the wishes of the voters for brexit, whilst giving us a choice on the final details now that we are much better informed as to he consequences and possibilities
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