Brexit

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/messages/christmas/how-to-have-a-gammon-christmas-20181220180744

If someone is saying horrible stuff to you and you’ve been playing too much Minecraft on the iPad to articulate a witty retort, wipe a bogie hastily on their arm then sharply pull their Spider-Man underpants up as high as you possibly can until they are crying for mercy. Eventually you can let go and look down with disdain at them, snivelling and writhing around on the ground, this playtime’s victim. No words required.
Hope that helps,
Holly

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Not at all. I never mention the subject when out socially, but it's always some sad sap who keeps bringing it up whether you know them or not. Brexiteers seem to think they can bend anyone's ear about it, any time. I've never approached anyone in a pub to start a conversation about Brexit and I've never had anyone approach me when I'm out and say 'this Brexit idea is bonkers innit?

It's the Brexiteer bores who sap the life out of an evening out. They're typically the type who you can't engage in any meaningful intelligent conversation about it either - I've only ever spoken to one who you can have a proper discussion with, it's always their way or nothing. Argumentative loadmouths who have no ability to work with people who see things differently to find common ground.

They've ruined the country now they want to ruin my evening out!

In all your anti brexit posts I don't see anywhere were you are willing to work with people who see things differently to you.

All the times I go out, I've never heard people moaning either way, I've never had anyone bending my ear either way, the only unwanted topic that crops up time and time again is people talking about work and that's from social clubs to out on the Town. Common ground is difficult to find when something that started out as a common market turned into a political union that no vote by the people was sought to transfer power from Parliament to un-elected bureaucrats in a foreign country with their own agendas.

Quoted from GrimRob

Most of the EU countries are in NATO anyway so if they were attacked we would be obliged to come to their rescue. So in effect, there already is a combined army as we are all on the same "side" and watch one another's backs. Armies are becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's world in which you can carry out more effective attacks from afar and far less traceability.

This is true and the US foots most of the bill with some countries putting in less than the 2 % of GDP they agreed to put in, hence the comments from the past three U.S. presidents have all made clear they believe the relationship has been imbalanced for too long. The Wales summit in 2014 should have settled the issue. That’s when all members agreed to spend 2 percent of their gross domestic product on defense by 2024. There is something like 29 countries in NATO and the US pay about 70% of the total costs. If the EU army is to match and replace NATO what do you think the cost will be and who is going to pay for that as it is going to cost billions. Also tell me why do we need an EU army if we have something in place that is already better and stronger than an EU army could ever be?

The major difference being  NATO - founded during the Cold War as a Western military/security alliance against the USSR and it's allies. Most of the members are still from the West and are predominantly from Europe or North America.

The calls from the likes of Verhoftstadt and Junker to control an EU army to front up to Russia is a dangerous one. Putin has already stated he feels Russia is surrounded do you think the rhetoric from Verhofstadt will calm things down, especially as he has form for implementing the things he shouts about, even if he is a nut job.

From being involved in NATO operations in the past, one thing that happens is a daily struggle for who is in charge. The UK will put a high ranking official in, France will put a high ranking official in who out ranks him by a grade then the Germans do the same to the French and so the I'm in charge game begins, a similar thing happens when the UK armed forces act as a tri-service, each service trying to out rank the other usually with the army playing all their top trumps. Then you have mission creep as the plan is changed so that the person in charge can claim he has done something for his review/CV/legacy and then others who replace them try to out do the last one and so the operation gets dragged out and the costs spiral and spiral.

From experience the cost of military operations can go from a £1 million pound for a 2 week operation of up to 60 personnel to hundreds of millions over months / years for aircraft and other transport fuel costs, hiring equipment/boats/trains/coaches/cranes for transporting troops and equipment. Then you have food costs, generator hire/fuel and maintenance costs, and servicemen get paid an allowance on top of their wage after 7 days away a certain rate depending on how many days away they have previously done, it goes up in several increments, then phone cards, washing facilities. Then you have replacement costs for when expensive equipment breaks down. I don't see any of those who barely fund the agreed 2 % paying anymore than they are doing so far.

Quoted from Marinerz93

In all your anti brexit posts I don't see anywhere were you are willing to work with people who see things differently to you.

All the times I go out, I've never heard people moaning either way, I've never had anyone bending my ear either way, the only unwanted topic that crops up time and time again is people talking about work and that's from social clubs to out on the Town. Common ground is difficult to find when something that started out as a common market turned into a political union that no vote by the people was sought to transfer power from Parliament to un-elected bureaucrats in a foreign country with their own agendas.

In 'real life', away from this board, I'm a much more reasonable person.

Quoted from Maringer

Not one to usually post videos, but I find this one amusing:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co......e0a0e4b09025ba310fce

You're not saying people believed those lying cnuts are you?  

When we last voted 45 years ago I like most others voted to join or stay in the common market,

It was a good choice then BUT now the E U is a different sort of animal ,

Just look at all the thousands of people that are employed in Brussels  to make our rules and laws,

We are better off out BUT  that does not mean we can not trade with them.

If we have to pay a little bit  to trade it will be worth it.

When other countries that are paying too much to stay in some of them will look at how well we are doing and the people will want out like us,

The French will be the next no matter what their president says they do not mess about when they think they are being unfairly treated.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

In 'real life', away from this board, I'm a much more reasonable person.

In fairness everyone I have met in 'real life' off the fishy has been spot on, so I wouldn't doubt what you say for one minute. Differing views and opinions is what makes this a great board. We all get frustrated with different topics especially when we all want or wholeheartedly believe whats is best.

Quoted from barralad

I campaigned for and voted to Remain. I do not want another referendum. I just want something more concrete than the hope that Brussels will "blink first" and something less nebulous than "Relax all will be well" You know something like a Brexiteer putting an actual time limit on this broadly quoted "Well it will be horrible for a while but then it will be ace". Given that austerity has lasted eight years with no end in sight (despite what the criminally useless Maybot comes out with) I do not expect to see this promised land any time soon.

I wouldn't normally post on a political thread as there is never likely to be a meeting of minds, especially on a subject as divisive as Brexit

I have to say I accepted the decision to leave even if that isn't what I thought would be best... if the UK were unhappy with the way the EU was being run, then imho the negotiation process that we're currently witnessing should have taken place before the electorate decided to leave and not afterwards

One thing is for sure.... in or out, the government that led us to this impasse are still going to be "in charge" going forward and that above all else saddens me, because from Cameron to May, the Tories have made an absolute pig's ear of everything

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

I wouldn't normally post on a political thread as there is never likely to be a meeting of minds, especially on a subject as divisive as Brexit

I have to say I accepted the decision to leave even if that isn't what I thought would be best... if the UK were unhappy with the way the EU was being run, then imho the negotiation process that we're currently witnessing should have taken place before the electorate decided to leave and not afterwards

One thing is for sure.... in or out, the government that led us to this impasse are still going to be in charge and that above all else saddens me, because from Cameron to May, they've made an absolute pig's ear of everything

Although I voted to leave I agree with most of what you said Tim I thought we would be able to negociate a lot better than we have done.

If I did not know better I think the government are deliberatly getting us into a tight corner before declaring we better extend the period before we officially leave then have another referendum hoping we change the vote to remain.

To be honest I like many are that fed up with what they are doing I am not bothered now if we stay or go.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Although I voted to leave I agree with most of what you said Tim I thought we would be able to negociate a lot better than we have done.

If I did not know better I think the government are deliberatly getting us into a tight corner before declaring we better extend the period before we officially leave then have another referendum hoping we change the vote to remain.

To be honest I like many are that fed up with what they are doing I am not bothered now if we stay or go.

Think that way myself Pete... it's the political equivalent of footballers running the clock down, feigning injury and keeping the ball close to the corner flag, in the knowledge that if they can waste time at every opportunity and see things out in additioonal time, there's a replay looming

Anyway as it stands, in or out, there's nothing the likes of me or you can do about this.... May made it pretty clear in PMQs that she thinks this whole is process is some kind of laughable pantomime

Thank goodness we have football to distract us....All Town aren't we!

Btw a belated Merry Christmas to you and yours and all the best for 2019!