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grimsby pete
December 15, 2018, 1:06pm Report to Moderator

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I understand the national debt part Rob it was the % bit at the end that confused me,

China has a similar debt to us but their % was way lower than ours,

Would be pleased if somebody can explain that bit,

Seeing all countries are billions and billions in the red I don't think it matters if we spend more than we earn.

Where is all this money owed to ? the pile must be way beyond the moon by now if you stack it all on top of each other.


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GrimRob
December 15, 2018, 1:48pm Report to Moderator

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China's debt is only 14% of their GDP, ours is 94%. In theory, we can pay it back with economic growth, something that is very difficult to sustain indefinitely, especially if we do things like leaving the EU and why no government ever tackles the issue of immigration (one of the easiest ways to get growth is just to increase your working age population). We haven't recovered from the last recession in 2008, the next one could be a good deal worse.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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grimsby pete
December 15, 2018, 1:55pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from GrimRob
China's debt is only 14% of their GDP, ours is 94%. In theory, we can pay it back with economic growth, something that is very difficult to sustain indefinitely, especially if we do things like leaving the EU and why no government ever tackles the issue of immigration (one of the easiest ways to get growth is just to increase your working age population). We haven't recovered from the last recession in 2008, the next one could be a good deal worse.


Got it now Rob thanks.

The old grey cells are disappearing and not been replaced now.


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Maringer
December 15, 2018, 3:59pm Report to Moderator
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Bear in mind that approximately a quarter of the national debt is actually the £435 billion created by QE which is owed to the Bank of England. Who owns the Bank of England? Well, it's the UK government! One part of the UK government 'owes' over £400 billion to another part of the government. Is it really possible to owe yourself money? How many know that the interest paid on the bonds created during QE goes to pay off the national debt!

Another thing to recall is that the UK national debt is denominated in Sterling. The UK government is the sole issuer of Sterling (although they authorise UK banks to create Sterling) so we can never run out of money. The countries that people use as scare stories (Zimbabwe, Venezuela etc) about inflation don't borrow in their own currency - they borrow in other currencies over which they have no control (usually USD). When we need to pay interest on debt in Sterling, we can just create the money to do so and the only place it can then ultimately be spent is the UK.

Finally, who owns the debt is important. About half is owned by UK institutions, banks, pension funds and individuals. The interest paid is then retained in the UK. It also provides a reliable investment opportunity for pension funds and the like.

The Tory justification for austerity in 2010 was entirely spurious. If your national debt gallops out of control, you've got something to be concerned about. Ours didn't (quite), despite the financial crisis. The fact that the UK government is selling long term gilts at rates effectively below inflation is very telling - investors are basically willing to lose money to keep a reliable income stream from the interest.
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grimsby pete
December 15, 2018, 5:38pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks Maringer very interesting.


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ginnywings
December 16, 2018, 2:12am Report to Moderator

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The Tory party always have and always will tear themselves apart over Europe. Pig face Cameron thought to himself " i know what to do, i will give the electorate a referendum, as they are bound to vote for us to stay in, therefore shutting up the Tory Euro sceptics, unite the party, and strengthen my position as leader, while strengthening the Tory party's power in office". What could possibly go wrong?

"They voted to leave you say"? Oops! "Where's the exit door"?

"I've just got time to throw this hand grenade over my shoulder on the way out"

"Theresa May caught it did she; Isn't she a staunch remainer"?  

Never mind, Boris and Rees will save the party and the country, when the conditions are more conducive to their political ambitions that is. Not yet mind, not until the make weights have been laid asunder by Brexit.

All the while, the country is suffering. Record homelessness, universal credit decimating already desperate people, and the only growth seems to be in the bank accounts of the elite. Food banks being the only other growth area. At least we are getting rid of those pesky foreigners at home and abroad.

Rule Britania!
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Mrs Doyle
December 16, 2018, 5:46am Report to Moderator
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This guy nails it for me as one of the "poor Basturds" this is exactly how I see it.



https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/2186117708277471/
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FishOutOfWater
December 17, 2018, 1:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from MarinerBen


Increase tariffs on imported vehicles, and reduce tax on UK manufactured models. We need to start buying British and stop sending out money abroad. I'm thinking Jaguar next if they don't abandon us.


In case you're unaware,  Jaguar/Land Rover is owned by the Indian company Tata

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grimsby pete
December 17, 2018, 7:23pm Report to Moderator

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Just buy cars that are made in our country  simple  


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Marinerz93
December 19, 2018, 8:32am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Maringer
Bear in mind that approximately a quarter of the national debt is actually the £435 billion created by QE which is owed to the Bank of England. Who owns the Bank of England? Well, it's the UK government! One part of the UK government 'owes' over £400 billion to another part of the government. Is it really possible to owe yourself money? How many know that the interest paid on the bonds created during QE goes to pay off the national debt!

Another thing to recall is that the UK national debt is denominated in Sterling. The UK government is the sole issuer of Sterling (although they authorise UK banks to create Sterling) so we can never run out of money. The countries that people use as scare stories (Zimbabwe, Venezuela etc) about inflation don't borrow in their own currency - they borrow in other currencies over which they have no control (usually USD). When we need to pay interest on debt in Sterling, we can just create the money to do so and the only place it can then ultimately be spent is the UK.

Finally, who owns the debt is important. About half is owned by UK institutions, banks, pension funds and individuals. The interest paid is then retained in the UK. It also provides a reliable investment opportunity for pension funds and the like.

The Tory justification for austerity in 2010 was entirely spurious. If your national debt gallops out of control, you've got something to be concerned about. Ours didn't (quite), despite the financial crisis. The fact that the UK government is selling long term gilts at rates effectively below inflation is very telling - investors are basically willing to lose money to keep a reliable income stream from the interest.


Interesting points, how would staying in the EU effect our debt with the EU plans of 2020

1. All EU countries to adopt the Euro
2. No rebate
3. No veto on anything including the money demanded from each member state
4. Contributions and control of our Forces to the EU Army that some people claimed would never be established.
5. Loss of embassies around the world as they are replaced by an EU one and EU foreign policy


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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