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Brexit

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1mickylyons
December 14, 2018, 9:28am Report to Moderator
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A sorry mess and quite clear the vast majority of politicians had no idea what the General Public would do when the Referendum took place. They simply appear to be either woefully out of touch with large swathes of the electorate or more likely don`t give a fcuk? Now having received a punch on the nose they have no intention whatsoever of delivering what Joe Public voted for. I hope should the likely 2nd Referndum take place the full 33M remember how this lot have treat democracy and give them a severe pummelling and Vote Leave again in far bigger numbers.
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ska face
December 14, 2018, 9:58am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from arryarryarry


I thought the EU have said the deal we have now been given is the only deal on offer and will not be changed.


Well not quite. It’s the only deal the Tories are gonna get, given that they’re determined to undercut the EU on things like workers’ rights, safety and environmental standards. The EU is a neoliberal protection racket so they’re not going to accept a European Singapore 12 miles from the continent. It’s certainly the only deal May’s going to get, as she’s been told again this morning (is that the 4th time now?), so this can-kicking can’t be allowed to continue.

Quoted Text
Also who really knows what the Labour Party want, Corbyn has been anti-EU for all his political life also those 6 tests which include staying in a customs union and aligned to the single market would mean continued free movement and contributions to the EU budget. You may as well stay in the EU


Again, not really. There are major aspects of Labour’s manifesto - like renationalising the railways - which are impossible within the EU and with May’s deal given the EU stipulations on state aid. These policies are incredibly popular with the general public (nationalising water polls about 75% in favour, iirc), but it won’t happen within the EU bosses’ club or under the party of millionaires. Corbyn’s always wanted out for reasons like these, so it’s only right that he’s given the opportunity to work out a deal on that basis.

The “freedom of movement” argument is always a (deliberately imo) vague one, where lots of concerns are all bundled into one and placed on migrants. Issues like wage suppression could be tackled with less restrictive trade union legislation. Issues with refugees from places like Libya and Syria might be alleviated if we weren’t going around blowing these poor fucckers’ countries to dust, just a thought.


Anyway, May’s coming back empty handed AGAIN, so we’ll see what happens from here.
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MarinerBen
December 14, 2018, 10:45am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gaffer58
Just tell the Germans that BMW's, Audis, Volkswagens are all going to be subject to new tariffs, see how quickly they want to do a deal then.


Increase tariffs on imported vehicles, and reduce tax on UK manufactured models. We need to start buying British and stop sending out money abroad. I'm thinking Jaguar next if they don't abandon us.
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grimsby pete
December 14, 2018, 12:40pm Report to Moderator

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I was looking at who pays what and how much they get  out of the E U budget

We are one that pays more and 18 yes 18 get more out than they put in.


Well I for one can think of lots of ways we can spend our money on rather than give it away,

Awaits Marringer  to come back with a six page explanation of why its better to stay in.

Also the more I listen to Tony Blair who keeps coming up with his views the more I want to leave.

Leave now without a deal and keep the £39 billion


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GrimRob
December 14, 2018, 1:34pm Report to Moderator

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It's too simple to say we pay in x amount and get y back. It's impossible to quantify the benefit of being in the EU and how good a value it represents. I think our net contribution is less than 0.5% of our GDP so although the amount of money sounds a lot it's only a very small slice of the pie.


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grimsby pete
December 14, 2018, 2:31pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from GrimRob
It's too simple to say we pay in x amount and get y back. It's impossible to quantify the benefit of being in the EU and how good a value it represents. I think our net contribution is less than 0.5% of our GDP so although the amount of money sounds a lot it's only a very small slice of the pie.


Well the £11 billion or whatever it is now could be spent on looking after our own people that are in need rather than giving it to 18 other countries.


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GrimRob
December 14, 2018, 3:54pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from grimsby pete


Well the £11 billion or whatever it is now could be spent on looking after our own people that are in need rather than giving it to 18 other countries.


You're assuming that everything else will remain the same except the 11 billion will be saved. Even if that were true it's barely going to make a dent on government spending or paying off the national debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html


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ska face
December 14, 2018, 5:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from grimsby pete


Well the £11 billion or whatever it is now could be spent on looking after our own people that are in need rather than giving it to 18 other countries.


Can never get my head around this lazy way of thinking. Like Rob said, you can’t reduce the argument to a simple “we pay x, they get y” statement.

Look at the NHS for example. Almost 6% of NHS staff are EU nationals from outside the UK, about 63,000 people. The UK benefits from their labour and expertise without having spent a single penny on their schooling or training until they walked into the country. How much does it cost to train a doctor or a nurse or school and raise someone that now comes and pays taxes in the UK? Try amount that times 63,000. THAT’S the benefit of being in the EU, as that money saved CAN be spent “looking after our own”, as people like to say.

And that’s just one tiny example from an innumerable amount.

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grimsby pete
December 14, 2018, 7:49pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from GrimRob


You're assuming that everything else will remain the same except the 11 billion will be saved. Even if that were true it's barely going to make a dent on government spending or paying off the national debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html


Sorry Rob you will have to explain  that clock to me because it doe not make any sense  its just a lot of figures going up and up,

Plus the % thing do not tally up when you look at other countries figures.


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GrimRob
December 14, 2018, 10:53pm Report to Moderator

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It shows the total debt of each country. Here's one just for the UK which shows the eye-watering amount of debt.

https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedkingdom

We're living totally beyond our means in this country and it's a struggle to even keep up with the interest payments on our debt. With the added problem of an aging population, immigration is required just to keep taxes down on those who do work.

Your 11bn, even if it magically turns up in the chancellor's war chest, and everything else someone is unaffected, is very unlikely to make much appreciable difference to real people.


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