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MuddyWaters |
February 27, 2012, 8:18am |
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Sorry but exactly what did you expect in all seriousness. Overnight the Trust become the third largest shareholder in GTFC. That sort of put us in the position of being involved. Do you think we'd be having any of these debates if Mike Parker had kept his shares? Given the aforementioned gentleman's decision not to be involved in anything to do with Grimsby Town in the future I'd say that created the need for the Mariners Trust to "meddle" as you so eloquently put it. It's incredible really. Here we have someone accusing the Trust of steaming in two footed yet others believe we have kept things far too close to our chests. Damned if we do damned if we don't.
You didn't have to accept the shares though. Surely the Trust considered their financial ability to back up this position before accepting them?
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gobby |
February 27, 2012, 8:41am |
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I have not posted on any issues concerning the shares but I have read all the threads and have come to the conclusion that it is all a crock of shite. The Trust started out with nothing and wanted to build and then over night they became the 3rd biggest shareholders in the club, BigChris and the rest of the board had hardly got their feet under the table and this was thrown at them, yes they could have said no thanks but as I see it they thought it was for the good of the club and fans to accept the offer. Now JF has seen them as a newly formed organisation with something they never expected and has used tactics only a clever buisness man knows how to get the security he needs to regain control. The trust have not yet given in to him as its the members of the trust that will decide on the 5th March and yes I am a member and I have voted yes as I would give the whole bloody lot to anyone to get this from around the Trusts neck, as I think it is dragging them down and could ruin a Trust that looked like it was going to have an impact for everyone and membership was building nicely and then BANG. I joined the trust with the hope it would improve things for the every day supporter of Grimsby Town on match days and for social events to get fans together, yes the 'Buckley Night' sounds good if you like the bloke and one or two other events are coming up but I feel that this shares issue has kicked the Trust in the gonards and far more fans are going against them than are joining. Shame. UTMM
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Wrawby_Mariner |
February 27, 2012, 8:58am |
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True that the Trust did not have to accept the shares. But at the point before it had accepted the shares it was in a dormant state. The shares gave the Trust new life. I think there is a culture of passing the buck everywhere we look in life but the Trust didn't, the Board at the time accepted the shares to reignite the Trust so we have them to thank for doing so. A few people on here said we should get rid of the shares as the Trust could not finance the club in the same way others could. Now we are doing so those same same people are getting on the Trusts back for doing the exact thing they suggested in the first place.
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Squarkus |
February 27, 2012, 9:40am |
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Sorry but exactly what did you expect in all seriousness. Overnight the Trust become the third largest shareholder in GTFC. That sort of put us in the position of being involved. Do you think we'd be having any of these debates if Mike Parker had kept his shares? Given the aforementioned gentleman's decision not to be involved in anything to do with Grimsby Town in the future I'd say that created the need for the Mariners Trust to "meddle" as you so eloquently put it. It's incredible really. Here we have someone accusing the Trust of steaming in two footed yet others believe we have kept things far too close to our chests. Damned if we do damned if we don't.
you must understand how fenty feels then.
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gobby |
February 27, 2012, 9:42am |
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I am not getting on the Trusts back Marc, I do support the Trust and what they are trying to achieve but what I was trying to say is that maybe these shares have come too early in the Trusts rebirth as such. UTMM
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sonik |
February 27, 2012, 9:57am |
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you must understand how fenty feels then.
Quoted from barralad Sorry but exactly what did you expect in all seriousness. Overnight the Trust become the third largest shareholder in GTFC. That sort of put us in the position of being involved. Do you think we'd be having any of these debates if Mike Parker had kept his shares? Given the aforementioned gentleman's decision not to be involved in anything to do with Grimsby Town in the future I'd say that created the need for the Mariners Trust to "meddle" as you so eloquently put it. It's incredible really. Here we have someone accusing the Trust of steaming in two footed yet others believe we have kept things far too close to our chests. Damned if we do damned if we don't.
you must understand how fenty feels then.That is what I was thinking as I read your post Ian. Thick skin needed springs to mind and that goes for all Trust board members. I wish you all well and hope the Trust and GTFC can work as a team in the future and give us some stability we all crave. The 5th March will be pivotal that's for sure. Obviously it's a YES vote from me! UTM!
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Wrawby_Mariner |
February 27, 2012, 10:05am |
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I am not getting on the Trusts back Marc, I do support the Trust and what they are trying to achieve but what I was trying to say is that maybe these shares have come too early in the Trusts rebirth as such. UTMM
I totally understand. I disagree and think the shares came at exactly the right time and was paramount to the revival of the Trust. Whenever the Trust was gifted these shares, this situation was always going to arise. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing and things probably could have been done differently on all parties but it was done this way and people have to build a bridge and get over it. People are being critical of the Trust, JF and MP just for the sake of it. But all parties have method behind their decisions whatever they may be. People have every right to their opinion but some of it is out of order and wide of the mark. Mr Fenty must have incredibly thick skin, I don't think I could could deal with all the excrement flung his way.
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Chris |
February 27, 2012, 11:14am |
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I think the shares have taken attention away from where it should have been directed.
GTFC should have looked to have worked with the trust regardless of its shareholding in my personal opinion.
In fact, the share issue (as mentioned by Gobby) has indeed polarised opinion on the Trust as JF effectively set (some) fans against the Trust from day 1 by implying we were a barrier for progression rather than the shares presenting an opportunity for the supporters to have a real input into the club. Even in his mre recent statements he still says the trusts shareholding would have been a barrier for people investing, which frankly I totally disagree with. The Trust has said from day 1 that it would look to sell shares if the right investor came along, obviously Mr Fenty took that to mean his good self.
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MuddyWaters |
February 27, 2012, 11:23am |
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I think the shares have taken attention away from where it should have been directed.
GTFC should have looked to have worked with the trust regardless of its shareholding in my personal opinion.
In fact, the share issue (as mentioned by Gobby) has indeed polarised opinion on the Trust as JF effectively set (some) fans against the Trust from day 1 by implying we were a barrier for progression rather than the shares presenting an opportunity for the supporters to have a real input into the club. Even in his mre recent statements he still says the trusts shareholding would have been a barrier for people investing, which frankly I totally disagree with. The Trust has said from day 1 that it would look to sell shares if the right investor came along, obviously Mr Fenty took that to mean his good self.
Totally agree with this. The barrier to external investment continues to be the loans to the club.
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forza ivano |
February 27, 2012, 12:01pm |
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This is a very difficult situation for the Trust - I can imagine the discussions that went on at the Trust Board to try and work this out. As a Trust member I have yet to cast my vote, and am unlikely to do so until towards the end of the week as I really want to try and weigh up what I think is in the best interests of the club.
Several posts have commented on the extent to which the Trust represents the fans, and others have commented on the calibre of the Trust Board: as well as being somewhat unfair, neither point seems relevant to the dilemma that the Trust faces, caught in the middle of a power battle that it neither caused nor wanted - it is the Trust that holds the shares and therefore any decision has to be up to the Trust as it currently is, not as it or others might wish it to be.
JF has been putting pressure on the Trust over the past few months to 'clarify its position and its plans', and is using the lever of further funding to force the question of majority share ownership outside the Boardroom. Of the two major shareholders 'outside the Board', the Trust has no money or power currently, but a clear desire to help the club, and JF is using this goodwill to ask them to transfer a significant proportion of their shares (=potential power) with conditions ('accept no more shares from MP') to nullify the threat of a possible future Trust + MP (or subsequent holder of MP's shares) outvoting him. In return for this JF will increase his own shareholding and underwrite the operational finances of the Club until the end of next season.
So, the Trust is being asked to weaken its own potential longer-term power and influence to secure JF's funding for the next 15 months. JF says that he's not 'holding the Trust to ransom' - but such pressure seems remarkably unfair! (Presumably he could approach MP and ask him to gift - or offer to buy - the required proportion of his shares to achieve the same aim!!).
The offer of involvement in future budget-setting and the support of the Club in promoting the Trust seem 'easy giveaways' (the latter ought to be happening anyway, and I'm not sure the former is a valid activity for the Trust to get involved in unless it's on the Board). So the real question is "should the Trust reduce its potential future power to secure JF's commitment to fund the club's losses for the next 15 months?" Mmm....is giving up potential influence (and a critical role in any future change of share ownership) a wise move? And why should the Trust - or any shareholder - give up the right to accept shares donated by any other party?
Arguably there are other options (which might have been debated at the Trust Board discussions - if so, explaining how they considered these might help people's understanding of the issues):
- the Trust could agree to assign voting proxy to the Chair of any Board meeting for a defined period (even up to 15 months if need be!), and perhaps also commit to non-hostile voting at an EGM (within defined conditions) during this period, subsequently renewable, so removing the medium term threat to JF whilst not ceding longer-term the power it has been gifted
- the Trust, despite its shareholding, does not have to 'present its plans' to the Board, as it was pressed to do by JF - it can legitimately state a 'holding position', with reassurance that it has no hostile intent - whilst it builds up its membership and develops a consensus amongst members about its role and aims. Nor does it have any responsibility for contributing to the ongoing funding of the Club - it can be a 'passive' shareholder (like many of us individually) whilst engaging with the club in areas it chooses (e.g. facilties, fundraising events, voluntary support etc)
At the moment Trust members are being asked to vote on the proposal as a straight 'Yes / No' - which is fair enough - but arguably a 'No' vote does not mean that an alternative proposal can't be considered subsequently.
excellent summary from david b, although i think we may need an updated version with the news regarding a place on the board
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