The Share Issue statement from the OS last Friday

Quoted from arryarryarry

Are you pretending to be thick or are you actually thick?

Neither.

How is this side issue STILL going on?? If you are not a member of the Trust why the fu(k should you have a vote on decisions taken by the Trust? You can by all means debate and suggest ideas on here which, if any good, may be taken on board by members of the Trust and influence their vote. But actually allowing anyone to vote defeats the point of organising the Trust in the first place and would stone cold kill any chance of getting more people to join it.

There are not 2 sides to this debate. Anyone who gives this the briefest amount of thought will come to the conclusion that the only fair and feasible approach to making Trust decisions is to restrict voting to members of the Trust itself. It is a group that is open for ANYONE to join for about £1 a month. With all due respect, if someone can't afford that then the Trust are unlikely to be missing out on the most talented business minds of their generation.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

Mr 80's Glory.

First of all, the Trust have never said we are the voice of the fans, the Trust is the voice of its members.

So why are you considering a (non-executive) place on the board ?

Technicalities aside (I'll assume you're right) it doesn't stop Grim_Exile (ok she's not a board member but good for you eh ?) putting up a link and saying:
"surely this is good news for all supporters?  Supporter representation at board level is a massive step forwards IMO."

If it were to happen would it be supporter representation or would it be trust member representation ?

I understand the plan is to get supporters on board, but IMO you're sending out confusing and mixed messages.
As I've said elsewhere it's a product of the "start and worry about the answers later" approach you've chosen - even David B says you don't know what your aims are or what your role is !

Could this be the reason why it's not working ?
I just think there's a better way and perhaps for eveyone's sake, the ultimate long-term survival of the MT might be the REAL issue here.

Will it work ? I'd love to think so but all the signs are fans aren't buying into it and arguably, a re-think is desperately needed if only to boost membership numbers.

The trust can avoid the issues if you they like but I arguably don't think it will do a deal for their long term credibility.

When the chairman say words to the effect that he can't have a sensible conversation on the messageboard you've got to wonder.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

We relaunched in October and you are expecting us to have the same credibility as a Trust that has been round for years...Get real.

I'm not expecting it to be a massive success right now but this is the problem with the trust IMO - they stuggle to take criticism or accept something might not be working.

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

The Trust board are there because nobody else wants to be/ do not have the time. You are a member of the Trust so instead of slagging it off in a public domain, email us and offer your advise.

I'm offering my advice here - regardless of membership when the interests of GTFC may be affected it's in the wider public interest all fans opinions are heard. (especially if boardroom issues might be on the cards)
Wouldn't you agree ?

I honestly think you're mistaken if you think me or others are the underlying problem - we could say nothing and would people be any more inclined to join en mass ?

Anyway Wrawbs haven't I already given you one ot two ideas that you considered ?
Let's say I did spend my time formulating ideas again.  
Can you blame me or others not doing so when there's almost 0 chance anything will happen ?

I'll give you one big idea - go back to the start and let's ALL sensibly and collectively talk about how we can reach agreement first to get as many fans on board before pushing ahead again.
Even David Cameron paused with his NHS reforms !

But more than that, there must be more value in using everyone's ideas ?
Just think of the potential !

Quoted from mike_d

80s,

You don't speak for the majority of the fans either.

I'm not claiming to be, not even in the vote.
Doesn't mean I don't care about the interests of the average supporter though - I'm one of them !

Quoted from mike_d

The real reason the membership hasn't grown is simple economics - people aren't buying tickets to see the team let alone more money on something, regardless of how little it costs, or how good value one can assume membership is.

With all due respect if you beleive that you'll believe anything !

In any case, didn't they hand out 3000 forms at one game or something ?

Quoted from mike_d

Next - the stated long term aim is to have a seat on the board. However, they've been presented with a chance to be there before their deadlines. You seem to suggest they shouldn't do so - please tell me if that's not correct.

If they're gonna act like a "supporters voice" I don't think they should.
Not enough members, not enough mandate or credibility for me.

Quoted from mike_d

I like the fact that things are happening without the "why are they waiting?" inaction that seems to cripple so many things.

Yes I see exactly what you mean a good point, but this is partly my point too.
Instead of moaning at complete inaction of the trust, the trust could share their possible plans in advance and allow every fan to work with them (On the fishy, why not ?) to find solutions and ideas.
Several heads are arguably better than a few.

Quoted from mike_d

However, if people don't sign up, should they still stop trying and give up?

I agree - have they given up ?
Let's face it, they're not very vocal on the messageboards discussing their plans and ideas ?

Quoted from mike_d

Again, my opinion; not one of the majority who you seem to think you're just as much the voice of as the Trust, who at least by having the name "Supporters Trust" have an aspiration to have.

Sorry you've lost me there.

Quoted from Chris

but instead, we'll be locked away in a room discussing how we can help make this football club better for everyone of its supporters, whether they are members or not.

I rest my case !
God forbid the trust board would ever consider coming on the fishy and discussing their ideas with members or the fans in advance.
Or do the trust board think they know better than eveyone else ?
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but to be absolutely honest, I wouldn't be that suprised.

Quoted from sonik

The same few banging the negative drum on here are maybe not Trust Members so can't vote anyway.  Most probably sent the returns back prior too.  We shall see!

I'm a trust member and if I could bring myself to vote it would be definitely be a YES to safeguard the clubs short term future.  
But when the issue is potentially so huge, membership is so low and when fans (who were not able to join up to vote on it) were'nt able to, I don't believe it's the morally right for me to do so. Therefore I'm abstaining.

Q. If it were to happen would it be supporter representation or would it be trust member representation ?

I haven't given this too much thought if I'm honest.  I would think Trust member representation because There would then be little point in joining otherwise and surely it would be an incentive to join.

In reply to how to get it working I would suggest an open meeting for everyone who wants to have a say and formulate ideas together as a fan base and hopefully win round some dubious supporters.. An open meeting is a must in my opinion and people dubious about the Trust should come along a hear what others have to say. Bickering behind computer screens won't do any of us any good.

Constructive criticism is welcome but the personal insults aren't. I understand this is an emotive subject and we all love GTFC and the trust want to unite the fanbase under one banner. We can't all agree on things 100% of the time and its harder to express an opinion behind a computer screen.

Quoted from 1600

I'm a trust member and if I could bring myself to vote it would be definitely be a YES to safeguard the clubs short term future.  
But when the issue is potentially so huge, membership is so low and when fans (who were not able to join up to vote on it) were'nt able to, I don't believe it's the morally right for me to do so. Therefore I'm abstaining.

Some information on statistically significant sample sizes might surprise you.

I'll use the numbers you've given in an earlier post. Let's assume there are 5000 Town fans and 300 members of the Trust. What would the vote results have to look like in order to be a reliable representation of the opinion of all the fans?

Well, I'll cut to the chase. You can be 99% sure that the proportion of 'Yes' and 'No' votes will be within 7% of what they would have been if the whole population of 5000 voted.

In other words, if the vote is won by 57%-43% one way or the other, then there a very low chance (<1%) that the result would be different if all fans voted.

Try for yourself:
http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

By not voting you are lowering the sample size and actually increasing the chance that the result is NOT representative of all the fans.

people on here trying to re-invent democracy!!!

A third of the voters at the last general election voted tory and only a little more than a third of the electorate voted.  That adds up to about 10% of the electorate who voted to get people from the top 2% of the population to rule us.

Democracy isn't fair, never has been but there is no other alternative that anyone has come up with.

As long as the rules are set down prior to the vote then it is as good as we are going to get.  Trust members vote on trust issues. . . simple really!  It only starts getting more complicated when fenty starts moving the goalposts; adding in a seat on the board/ a slot in the meeting/ letting us listen at the door.  

Quoted from 1054

people on here trying to re-invent democracy!!!

A third of the voters at the last general election voted tory and only a little more than a third of the electorate voted.  That adds up to about 10% of the electorate who voted to get people from the top 2% of the population to rule us.

Democracy isn't fair, never has been but there is no other alternative that anyone has come up with.

As long as the rules are set down prior to the vote then it is as good as we are going to get.  Trust members vote on trust issues. . . simple really!  It only starts getting more complicated when fenty starts moving the goalposts; adding in a seat on the board/ a slot in the meeting/ letting us listen at the door.  

The point about the General Election is totally wrong. Over 65% of the electorate voted in 2010 but let's not let facts get in the way of a story.

Regarding moving the goalposts however, you are totally right. You must be by virtue of the defensive nature of Sonik's post.

Jesus H Christ on a bike.

The shares belong to the Trust. The prospective place on the board is being offered to the Trust. It matters not a jot that this affects the club and all its supporters. There are many decisions made that affect the club and its supporters, by the club. No one bats an eyelid. Why? because the decisions are made by the shareholders or by the people that the shareholders have elected to the board. Its the same with the Trust. You become a member that makes you a shareholder in the Trust. Don't fackin like it, well join the fackin Trust then, instead of sitting round saying its not fair because it affects all supporters. You never moaned to the club when they made the same sort of decision. You want a say? Join the Trust. Thats what its there for. You don't want to join the Trust? then just carry on as Town fans have for 134 years and let someone else make the decision.

Quoted from Coley Surfer

Jesus H Christ on a bike.

The shares belong to the Trust. The prospective place on the board is being offered to the Trust. It matters not a jot that this affects the club and all its supporters. There are many decisions made that affect the club and its supporters, by the club. No one bats an eyelid. Why? because the decisions are made by the shareholders or by the people that the shareholders have elected to the board. Its the same with the Trust. You become a member that makes you a shareholder in the Trust. Don't fackin like it, well join the fackin Trust then, instead of sitting round saying its not fair because it affects all supporters. You never moaned to the club when they made the same sort of decision. You want a say? Join the Trust. Thats what its there for. You don't want to join the Trust? then just carry on as Town fans have for 134 years and let someone else make the decision.

This really makes me chuckle.