Sorry to say this but wrong manager at the wrong time. This is arguably worse than under Hurst with the team looking disjointed with no fight.
He’s marginalised Holohan, Efete and Amos who in my view still have something to offer and are no worse than the players in the team.
You only have to look at Tranmere, Colchester and Salford to see the impact that a new manager should have.
We’re going down I’m afraid to say.
You have a point with Gav, he actually has something to offer. Efete and Amos seem to turn into world class full backs when they don't play, both are terrible. Reminder that Efete couldn't dislodge Jordan Cropper out the team when we were in the NL.
Good management is being able to get the best out of a group of players. You can't play for a team containing players that don't exist yet. You need to pivot towards a new style.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
He said when he arrived that Grimsby were Meh . I laughed and agreed with him because we’ve been meh for the best part of 20 years
Fast forward 3 months and we’re still meh . That was dreadful today and had all the hallmarks of a team going down . I think we should of broke the bank for someone with a history of turning teams around quickly . He’s runout of time to get them playing it’s time to start grinding out results from somewhere .
You have a point with Gav, he actually has something to offer. Efete and Amos seem to turn into world class full backs when they don't play, both are terrible. Reminder that Efete couldn't dislodge Jordan Cropper out the team when we were in the NL.
Thats rubbish and not true. Efete was injured. Cropper was the back up right back
Personally, don't think it was the right appointment at the right time. We don't have the luxury of time to recruit an entire new team capable of playing Artell ball and to train said players how to play it. Football is a very momentum skewed game, if things are going against you it takes a monumental effort to turn it around. We are fast heading for danger.
For me it comes down to leaders, and we have very few. When the going gets tough, heads drop. You need them through the spine of the team.
Our defence is terrible, and I’d happily see any or all of them go.
Both full backs let in too many crosses, and Rodgers makes me very nervous.
Efete isn’t a world beater, but I view him as a better option than Mullarkey. Amos isn’t good enough at this level, but we could do with an upgrade on at least one of the sides.
After the Notts game I was encouraged by the fact that although we concede goals easily we have the ability to score goals ourselves when up against it, that performance today proves how wrong I was. We do not have a plan to alter our game when the opposition stop us playing.Tranmere got an easy 3 points today and it was far too easy for them . We looked a better team when Vernam and Holohan came on and injected a bit of pace but as usual our defence was awful.
Dead Eye Dobbin stood motionless waiting, waiting, waiting for the ball to arrive. Back came the right foot, Down came the right foot, Bang ! Headlines around the world as the ball flew into the very top right hand corner of the goal.( Jim Dobbin scoring in the 89th minute for Town against Newcastle United away 24/10/1992 )
He said when he arrived that Grimsby were Meh . I laughed and agreed with him because we’ve been meh for the best part of 20 years
Fast forward 3 months and we’re still meh . That was dreadful today and had all the hallmarks of a team going down . I think we should of broke the bank for someone with a history of turning teams around quickly . He’s runout of time to get them playing it’s time to start grinding out results from somewhere .
It's probably the players don't know what he wants of them because he can't string a sentence together!!
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Sorry, but just can't warm to the guy and can't listen to his interviews, can't make my mind up wether he's a bullshi**er or a genuine bloke. Hope the latter is true for our sakes. All I know is that at the moment our team is National League standard at best.
I don't think Artells a bad manager much like I don't think Hurst was.
Hurst reverted to type after recruiting lot's of technical players and it went badly , the keeper didn't help .
Now Artell (at least today] went back to Hurstball with Green, Andrews (who is capable tbf) and Clifton on the flank , which ironically i think is his best position in a Hurst style system played properly .
Khan , Hunt and Conteh are more Artell style players but 2 are gone and 1 has vanished so I'm not sure what's happening .
Sorry, but just can't warm to the guy and can't listen to his interviews, can't make my mind up wether he's a bullshi**er or a genuine bloke. Hope the latter is true for our sakes. All I know is that at the moment our team is National League standard at best.
I agree. Not connected with him at all and that's even when we've won.
The RH interview is a weird one, but I wouldn't say that Artell is at fault for that. Matt Dean asked some very odd questions, which almost seemed like he was trying to rile him up. Essentially asked him to tear into Glennon in particular, Artell obviously refused, then asked again. Bizarre.
The RH interview is a weird one, but I wouldn't say that Artell is at fault for that. Matt Dean asked some very odd questions, which almost seemed like he was trying to rile him up. Essentially asked him to tear into Glennon in particular, Artell obviously refused, then asked again. Bizarre.
What do you expect him to ask? “Oh David, wasn’t that a great game?”
Gosh. Knee jerk. I supported Hurst to the end and I'm the one to chip in?
Previously, Mullarkey got shredded, and we lost our DM. He had either Green or Clifton to go in at DM. He chose Harry on the wing to offer cover for Mullarkey who certainly needs it. Both choices were correct IMHO. Gav has about 4/5 matches I've seen highlights with him casually strolling back and getting caught out with goals scored. He's good going forward, but he's battling against Andrews, Hunt and Wood. Wood needs a shot and Andrews pass rate is a lot better than Holahan if I remember correctly.
Result sucks, but choices are limited. I would have personally gone with Maher over Rodgers but would it have made a difference?
We need a RB to replace Efete, and that isn't helping. We need a LB to offer competition for Glennon. We don't really have that. None of these are Artel's fault, it is the same hand anyone would play with and it isn't easy.
He started well and everyone assumed this was an easy job. Nope. We have serious squad problems and you only have super glue to patch up in Jan.
I get it's easy to complain and blame, but that's just for coping. It doesn't solved our problems.
Sorry to say this but wrong manager at the wrong time. This is arguably worse than under Hurst with the team looking disjointed with no fight.
He’s marginalised Holohan, Efete and Amos who in my view still have something to offer and are no worse than the players in the team.
You only have to look at Tranmere, Colchester and Salford to see the impact that a new manager should have.
We’re going down I’m afraid to say.
The owners picked Artell because they want to see passing entertaining football. Gav is one of the worst passers of a ball I have seen in an experienced midfielder so Artell doesn’t rate him and he’s out . Not rocket science
Gosh. Knee jerk. I supported Hurst to the end and I'm the one to chip in?
Previously, Mullarkey got shredded, and we lost our DM. He had either Green or Clifton to go in at DM. He chose Harry on the wing to offer cover for Mullarkey who certainly needs it. Both choices were correct IMHO. Gav has about 4/5 matches I've seen highlights with him casually strolling back and getting caught out with goals scored. He's good going forward, but he's battling against Andrews, Hunt and Wood. Wood needs a shot and Andrews pass rate is a lot better than Holahan if I remember correctly.
Result sucks, but choices are limited. I would have personally gone with Maher over Rodgers but would it have made a difference?
We need a RB to replace Efete, and that isn't helping. We need a LB to offer competition for Glennon. We don't really have that. None of these are Artel's fault, it is the same hand anyone would play with and it isn't easy.
He started well and everyone assumed this was an easy job. Nope. We have serious squad problems and you only have super glue to patch up in Jan.
I get it's easy to complain and blame, but that's just for coping. It doesn't solved our problems.
In truth we probably could get away with this season if we played a typical league 2 style / Hurst original type football with these players (a good few of them saw us through to an 11th place finish last time out ) but I'm not sure Artell has that capability to put this sort of team together so I honestly believe either he signs the players to fit his style now or we go down , or if not down very close to it as they have not got the technical capability to carry out what's required from his game style .
You lot love getting managers fired, it's seriously the thing this board gets the most joy from except when something positive about the fans is mentioned and you all cum in your pants.
We shipped less than 5 goals for the first time in 3 games, I don't see how that isn't "steadying the ship" except that we lost this game. Apparently conceding 5 at home after conceding 6 at home was fine because it was a draw .
As soon as we win a game you'll all change your tune too, only negative when we lose even if we played objectively worse. Also only happy when the club is an endless revolving door of managers so you can get that new manager thrill back after the honeymoon period wears off and it gets boring.
God forbid DA says the fans act spoiled or something because all hell would break loose.
The owners picked Artell because they want to see passing entertaining football. Gav is one of the worst passers of a ball I have seen in an experienced midfielder so Artell doesn’t rate him and he’s out . Not rocket science
If you think Holohan’s passing is bad, then I can’t wait for you to watch our last three games!
Oh dear I did not expect to see this thread open up. Call me a happy clapper at this stage of the season just wanna stay up not go to the national league AGAIN ..!! UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
In truth we probably could get away with this season if we played a typical league 2 style / Hurst original type football with these players (a good few of them saw us through to an 11th place finish last time out ) but I'm not sure Artell has that capability to put this sort of team together so I honestly believe either he signs the players to fit his style now or we go down , or if not down very close to it as they have not got the technical capability to carry out what's required from his game style .
I disagree. He can sign a few players to suit his style, but he will still be stuck with the vast majority who aren't up to playing his way. Time to abandon the style for now.
He said when he arrived that Grimsby were Meh . I laughed and agreed with him because we’ve been meh for the best part of 20 years
Fast forward 3 months and we’re still meh . That was dreadful today and had all the hallmarks of a team going down . I think we should of broke the bank for someone with a history of turning teams around quickly . He’s runout of time to get them playing it’s time to start grinding out results from somewhere .
I think it can now be definitively said that Hursts recruitment this season was absolute gash.
Kid in a sweet shop ?
More money was not his strength imo , he created a more balanced team with half the money , he will probably do really well at Shrewsbury - another backs to the wall job .
I disagree. He can sign a few players to suit his style, but he will still be stuck with the vast majority who aren't up to playing his way. Time to abandon the style for now.
Fair opinion , I feel like he tried that today though ?
It was quite turgid and aerial a lot of the game .
I'm more interested to see if he can coach that style , because he seems quite rigid in the way that he wants to play .
Sorry Dav, i will apologies for my comment. We just need to give DA atleast the summer to get his players in. I saw today a team of triers but lacking a bit of technical ability like Greeny. A frustrating watch so understand emotions are bit down.
I generally get the impression that certain posters on here are happier when we lose than when we win. Gives them something to moan about. There’s a few that sits near me that’s like that. Never as happy when Holohan or Eisa mess something up. Some people love failure.
Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !! GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
I generally get the impression that certain posters on here are happier when we lose than when we win. Gives them something to moan about. There’s a few that sits near me that’s like that. Never as happy when Holohan or Eisa mess something up. Some people love failure.
I was very happy with Artell’s appointment up until now but we’re getting worse not better, our best performances are becoming distant memories and our better players are nowhere to be seen.
What a lot of people are forgetting was that he was honest right at the start of his tenure. He said it would take many months for him to get the team playing the way he AND the owners what us to play. Up until this week he was stuck with players that were not his choice, and as we can clearly see, some of whom are not able to play his way. Two of them got their first start today, what did you expect of them? They have been here less than a week.
Some people are already saying he should go!! Really, wow after just a few weeks you want him out, he is doing his best to work with what he inherited, he said it wouldn't be easy, and he was right. Saying we should change back to playing the Hurst way, well, there were plenty of you knocking that style too.
I hope we stick with him and give him the time and backing he needs, instead of slagging him off on this forum.
I generally get the impression that certain posters on here are happier when we lose than when we win. Gives them something to moan about. There’s a few that sits near me that’s like that. Never as happy when Holohan or Eisa mess something up. Some people love failure.
1 regular near me abused Ryan Taylor for 2 seasons calling him a 'useless ginger cu*t' and seemed happier when we went out the league so there are some of those for sure . I have not seen any major Taylor abuse on here though so just assume he's not here .
I generally get the impression that certain posters on here are happier when we lose than when we win. Gives them something to moan about. There’s a few that sits near me that’s like that. Never as happy when Holohan or Eisa mess something up. Some people love failure.
What a lot of people are forgetting was that he was honest right at the start of his tenure. He said it would take many months for him to get the team playing the way he AND the owners what us to play. Up until this week he was stuck with players that were not his choice, and as we can clearly see, some of whom are not able to play his way. Two of them got their first start today, what did you expect of them? They have been here less than a week.
Some people are already saying he should go!! Really, wow after just a few weeks you want him out, he is doing his best to work with what he inherited, he said it wouldn't be easy, and he was right. Saying we should change back to playing the Hurst way, well, there were plenty of you knocking that style too.
I hope we stick with him and give him the time and backing he needs, instead of slagging him off on this forum.
Though today’s MF selection wasn’t right & you could see early on it wasn’t working you’re right.
I’m not sure we’d get better than Artel & I’m still 100% supportive.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
What a lot of people are forgetting was that he was honest right at the start of his tenure. He said it would take many months for him to get the team playing the way he AND the owners what us to play. Up until this week he was stuck with players that were not his choice, and as we can clearly see, some of whom are not able to play his way. Two of them got their first start today, what did you expect of them? They have been here less than a week.
Some people are already saying he should go!! Really, wow after just a few weeks you want him out, he is doing his best to work with what he inherited, he said it wouldn't be easy, and he was right. Saying we should change back to playing the Hurst way, well, there were plenty of you knocking that style too.
I hope we stick with him and give him the time and backing he needs, instead of slagging him off on this forum.
Been happy enough till now but, with the players he had available, today’s midfield selection was baffling. Andrews, Wood and Green were individually shocking and as a collective appalling.
Who is it he said in his interview was on trail with us.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Been happy enough till now but, with the players he had available, today’s midfield selection was baffling. Andrews, Wood and Green were individually shocking and as a collective appalling.
I try not to comment on team selections as I am not a professional football manager.
Oh give up for felicitations sake...last week we we're all buzzing saying how much entertaining we are now, playing a better style of football, today we were excrement, it happens but to call for Artell already?..really, I'm just glad you aren't my line manager!!..
That was awful & i dont see any improvement in fact it got worse today our defending is at best shambolic , we wont win games with these defenders not helped by midfield today though , have we got a back up plan because for sure we could get relegated
Even i think its a bit early to be calling for his head . The team is in nowhere land along with most not being able to either pass or concentrait . I personaly dont think he is the answer Trouble is trying to get to the summer so he can sign players he wants and can play his style may cost us our league status once again
You lot love getting managers fired, it's seriously the thing this board gets the most joy from except when something positive about the fans is mentioned and you all cum in your pants.
PH was one of the longest-serving manager in the whole EFL. I think there was barely a Hurst Out thread all season (or last) on here until near the end, so I don't think you can claim at all that the board has a great appetite for demanding sackings.
It's quite common for clubs to lose a long-serving manager and then take a couple of goes to get the right replacement. Don't forget our owners were totally new to this as well, many other owners will have been through previous sets of interviews and have a feel for who they might approach when the moment arrives.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
What the intercourse the owners ever see in this bloke I can't imagine. I love the owners because they love our club and they got rid of Fenty but what the intercourse they made them think Artell was the alternative to SP & BD I don't know.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
I just don't know what we are trying to achieve right now ? We clearly aren't good enough to pass it out the back. We concede goals for fun.
Under David artell he said we will get an identity under him and we will see what we want to do under him well I can see we are a bit of a joke atm dave. We look an easy touch for anyone right now.
We have just sold arguably our best player losing games pretty much every week, I'm worried tbh very worried infact.
I'm not sure the owners are confident they have made the right decision in appointing artell but we must try get behind him as much as possible right now , I know that's easy to say but what other option do we have ? Sack him and put us further in dissaray.
IF we survive this season and stay up and by the way it is in no way gonna be easy task then we need to look at the whole set up of what we are trying to achieve. We can't be having another season of this.
This transfer window is going to be the most important in recent years and getting some young lads on cheap loans from some championship clubs ain't gonna cut it .
I just don't know what we are trying to achieve right now ? We clearly aren't good enough to pass it out the back. We concede goals for fun.
Under David artell he said we will get an identity under him and we will see what we want to do under him well I can see we are a bit of a joke atm dave. We look an easy touch for anyone right now.
We have just sold arguably our best player losing games pretty much every week, I'm worried tbh very worried infact.
I'm not sure the owners are confident they have made the right decision in appointing artell but we must try get behind him as much as possible right now , I know that's easy to say but what other option do we have ? Sack him and put us further in dissaray.
IF we survive this season and stay up and by the way it is in no way gonna be easy task then we need to look at the whole set up of what we are trying to achieve. We can't be having another season of this.
This transfer window is going to be the most important in recent years and getting some young lads on cheap loans from some championship clubs ain't gonna cut it .
We now have 'an identity' It urine easy to score against us.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Hurst clearly balls-up the summer recruitment, if any potential player has a choice this window dont think they'll be choosing us now, which leaves a few Artell panicked signings and more wasted money. Hoping I'm wrong and somehow we get lucky.
Do the board trust DA with further funds next week?
I hope they have deep pockets as we need a keeper, 2 fullbacks, a CB, a CDM, a creative midfielder and a right winger. I’m just praying somebody doesn’t swoop for Danny Rose this week or we will be down
Just listened to the DA Humberside interview. There is no doubt he is an intelligent modern thinker. I can see why JS appointed him.
Their intentions are laudable. There will be club employees who don’t understand or do not want to understand what their leaders are asking for. It’s not uncommon in organisations who want to significantly change how they operate.
Having lived through three such organisational changes in my working career I would be worried if my leader gave such a wooden interview. Frankly it needs more than look at the video of the game and make it crystal clear about what he expects.
Let’s hope it all works out. At the moment I think the way in which the changes are being managed have moved the clock from low risk to high risk. I hope I am wrong.
What the intercourse the owners ever see in this bloke I can't imagine. I love the owners because they love our club and they got rid of Fenty but what the intercourse they made them think Artell was the alternative to SP & BD I don't know.
Agree with this.
I suspect the owners will look at the data, particularly the form table over the last 6-12 games, and be shitting themselves. I certainly am anyway.
The sooner they accept that they made a mistake with the appointment the better the chance we have at staying up - right now we’re skydiving without a parachute. It is slightly unnerving the extent to which some fans are wearing the rose tints in this respect.
O,K I will answer my own question it was Kemar Lawrence on trial with us.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Too many players playing who should not be taking the wage of a professional footballer. The inability of so many to control the ball quickly and then be able to make an accurate pass of less than 20 yards is absolutely incredible. You don’t expect the same skill levels as championship or premiership players but basic skills should be there.
Too many players playing who should not be taking the wage of a professional footballer. The inability of so many to control the ball quickly and then be able to make an accurate pass of less than 20 yards is absolutely incredible. You don’t expect the same skill levels as championship or premiership players but basic skills should be there.
Potentially, and no amount of extra training is going to make them ball players in 2 months. You cannot fix problem in january. Only ones who are available are not getting in their teams, or are young and unproven. Many of our problems need us to pick the right manager, cling into league 2 this year, and go through it and replace those out of contract and those that will willingly move on early. Some won't and it's going to take more than 1 transfer window to fix.
This is the painful reality, many here naively think we could sign the next Pep and turn these guys into magicians.
It's easy to say Hurst fùcked up the recruitment in the summer, but let's not ignore the fact that he signed Danny Rose, who's a proper goalscorer and doing very well in a limited team, plus we have Abo Eisa who's scored 8 goals this season (a few have been top drawer) and even when Wilson gets on the field he's scored a handful, same for Pyke.
He also signed Conteh, who's just made us some £££.
Like every manager in any league, recruitment is hit and miss at the best of times. I don't think either keeper is an improvement on Crocombe; Mullarkey has added little, Rodgers has been disappointing, while players like Gnahoua and Vernam haven't been able to stay free of injury.
Some of last season's players haven't turned up this season, like Maher, Green and Glennon. Maybe in patches, but that's being generous. Still waiting to see the real Hunt.
From some angles, yes, recruitment wasn't great. It's a personal opinion but I think there's too much chopping and changing with every window. It's almost like managers feel they have to sell/sign players, otherwise the fans are going to kick off.
I watched All Town Aren't We this week and, once again, it feels like a tight-knit group got dismantled way too quickly, again. I'd have loved to have seen how far that same team could've taken us with the momentum and spirit they had. They'd have beaten our current lot easily today, and any other day this season.
"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
DA needs to find a system these numb heads can understand and start getting some results, or we are in big trouble Donny game is looking a massive 6 pointer.
Potentially, and no amount of extra training is going to make them ball players in 2 months. You cannot fix problem in january. Only ones who are available are not getting in their teams, or are young and unproven. Many of our problems need us to pick the right manager, cling into league 2 this year, and go through it and replace those out of contract and those that will willingly move on early. Some won't and it's going to take more than 1 transfer window to fix.
This is the painful reality, many here naively think we could sign the next Pep and turn these guys into magicians.
I don't think anyone expects a Pep like transformation .I don't even expect us to beat Tranmere really who are a decent club with some good players , but they were not much better than us today and we didn't lay a glove on them , we used to give teams a proper game at BP whoever it was.
It's easy to say Hurst fùcked up the recruitment in the summer, but let's not ignore the fact that he signed Danny Rose, who's a proper goalscorer and doing very well in a limited team, plus we have Abo Eisa who's scored 8 goals this season (a few have been top drawer) and even when Wilson gets on the field he's scored a handful, same for Pyke.
He also signed Conteh, who's just made us some £££.
Like every manager in any league, recruitment is hit and miss at the best of times. I don't think either keeper is an improvement on Crocombe; Mullarkey has added little, Rodgers has been disappointing, while players like Gnahoua and Vernam haven't been able to stay free of injury.
Some of last season's players haven't turned up this season, like Maher, Green and Glennon. Maybe in patches, but that's being generous. Still waiting to see the real Hunt.
From some angles, yes, recruitment wasn't great. It's a personal opinion but I think there's too much chopping and changing with every window. It's almost like managers feel they have to sell/sign players, otherwise the fans are going to kick off.
I watched All Town Aren't We this week and, once again, it feels like a tight-knit group got dismantled way too quickly, again. I'd have loved to have seen how far that same team could've taken us with the momentum and spirit they had. They'd have beaten our current lot easily today, and any other day this season.
Agree with a lot of that ,especially the player turnover bit
It's easy to say Hurst fùcked up the recruitment in the summer, but let's not ignore the fact that he signed Danny Rose, who's a proper goalscorer and doing very well in a limited team, plus we have Abo Eisa who's scored 8 goals this season (a few have been top drawer) and even when Wilson gets on the field he's scored a handful, same for Pyke.
He also signed Conteh, who's just made us some £££.
Like every manager in any league, recruitment is hit and miss at the best of times. I don't think either keeper is an improvement on Crocombe; Mullarkey has added little, Rodgers has been disappointing, while players like Gnahoua and Vernam haven't been able to stay free of injury.
Some of last season's players haven't turned up this season, like Maher, Green and Glennon. Maybe in patches, but that's being generous. Still waiting to see the real Hunt.
From some angles, yes, recruitment wasn't great. It's a personal opinion but I think there's too much chopping and changing with every window. It's almost like managers feel they have to sell/sign players, otherwise the fans are going to kick off.
I watched All Town Aren't We this week and, once again, it feels like a tight-knit group got dismantled way too quickly, again. I'd have loved to have seen how far that same team could've taken us with the momentum and spirit they had. They'd have beaten our current lot easily today, and any other day this season.
Just posted on another thread of the starting 11 today only Clifton survives from the PO final 19 months ago.
What’s more alarming is only Glennon & Clifton played at Luton 12 months ago today.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I think Artell has to take some of the blame for today certainly. A midfield trio that between them has less than 100 appearances in the FL and it showed, lacking in physicality and in Green having one of the most technically limited midfielders to have ever worn a Town shirt. Putting Clifton out wide for Vernam was also a strange choice. I can understand the thinking of giving the fairly useless Mullarkey a bit more defensive support but we were playing Tranmere, not Man City. The lack of attacking substitutions and the bizarre timing of the substitutions was also a mistake. I also think he's being too pigheaded given our situation where, despite what he says, we're not safe from relegation and trying to play this very technical game does not suit the players available who are in the most part pretty crap.
However, this situation is generally not his fault. Since the first half against Bradford, we were utterly shite under Hurst. There was a good performance against Morecambe under the caretakers amongst some equally shite performances (FGR, Sutton and Slough away). And other than a few games, we've continued to be shite under Artell. The common denominator is the players who are stealing a wage and should be ashamed of themselves.
The overall quality of the squad is non league standard and most of the signings in the last two years have either never had much success in the FL or mostly played in non-league interspersed with young, inexperienced players. If all of our players were released at the end of the season, how many would you expect to get a FL club? Rose, Clifton, Vernam, Eisa, Cartwright, possibly Gnahoua, Wilson and Pyke too? The rest I think would struggle to find a FL club and I suspect we will be the last FL club of a lot of these players. Our starting back line today had FOUR out of five players who were relegated LAST SEASON. In short, we've got a squad full of losers.
We have precious few who show any leadership. We have very little pace throughout the team. We're not a very strong team. We never seem to be as fit as the opposition.. We're technically quite poor on average and always seem far poorer than the opposition at doing the absolute basics. The match intelligence of too many players is alarmingly poor. We are found wanting in virtually every aspect of the game. I totally agree with those that are saying Artell is trying to get them to play in a way that they're not capable of playing. But then the question remains, what style of play could you implement with this team?!
The next few days are crucical. We need a right back, a left back, someone to replace Conteh cause Green is shite and can't do that role and another centre back at an absolute minimum if we're going to get ourselves out of trouble and not just rely on there being two teams that are worse than us. Hurst did a lot of good in the last two seasons but he's left us with an absolute turd of a squad.
I wonder which players the above has been an influence/difference in signing compared to someone Hurst thought would be good to sign, and for that matter Artell?
Do the board trust DA with further funds next week?
It’s a fair question. Certainly think his judgment is up for discussion at the very least, not just regarding the signings he’s made (albeit early days) but also regarding his team selections.
OUT for me, and sooner the better B4 Next Game Please Poor recruitment from the club again He Probably ticked the boxes at interview Don’t ask me who to bring in as I’m fed up with feeling underwhelmed year after year after year Pearson and Davies “May” keep us up This fella definitely won’t Eastleigh, Boreham Wood , Gateshead Beckoning We deserve so much better Come on Town!!
OUT for me, and sooner the better B4 Next Game Please Poor recruitment from the club again He Probably ticked the boxes at interview Don’t ask me who to bring in as I’m fed up with feeling underwhelmed year after year after year Pearson and Davies “May” keep us up This fella definitely won’t Eastleigh, Boreham Wood , Gateshead Beckoning We deserve so much better Come on Town!!
I wonder which players the above has been an influence/difference in signing compared to someone Hurst thought would be good to sign, and for that matter Artell?
At least some of the players we signed under DA we were pursuing before, suggesting some continuity at least in recruitment. Which seems odd if we are intending to play in a profoundly different way.
I have my doubts that it is even possible to find a squad willing and able to come to Grimsby and play the style DA wants. Not only do we have to have some way of playing that will achieve enough points to stay up this season, we also need one which it is possible for the pool of players we can realistically attract to even play. There are many other well funded clubs in more desirable locations competing for the same group of players. Most of them will also be looking at the same data that we are.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
I think Artell has to take some of the blame for today certainly. A midfield trio that between them has less than 100 appearances in the FL and it showed, lacking in physicality and in Green having one of the most technically limited midfielders to have ever worn a Town shirt. Putting Clifton out wide for Vernam was also a strange choice. I can understand the thinking of giving the fairly useless Mullarkey a bit more defensive support but we were playing Tranmere, not Man City. The lack of attacking substitutions and the bizarre timing of the substitutions was also a mistake. I also think he's being too pigheaded given our situation where, despite what he says, we're not safe from relegation and trying to play this very technical game does not suit the players available who are in the most part pretty crap.
However, this situation is generally not his fault. Since the first half against Bradford, we were utterly shite under Hurst. There was a good performance against Morecambe under the caretakers amongst some equally shite performances (FGR, Sutton and Slough away). And other than a few games, we've continued to be shite under Artell. The common denominator is the players who are stealing a wage and should be ashamed of themselves. Absolutely spot on IMO! The overall quality of the squad is non league standard and most of the signings in the last two years have either never had much success in the FL or mostly played in non-league interspersed with young, inexperienced players. If all of our players were released at the end of the season, how many would you expect to get a FL club? Rose, Clifton, Vernam, Eisa, Cartwright, possibly Gnahoua, Wilson and Pyke too? The rest I think would struggle to find a FL club and I suspect we will be the last FL club of a lot of these players. Our starting back line today had FOUR out of five players who were relegated LAST SEASON. In short, we've got a squad full of losers.
We have precious few who show any leadership. We have very little pace throughout the team. We're not a very strong team. We never seem to be as fit as the opposition.. We're technically quite poor on average and always seem far poorer than the opposition at doing the absolute basics. The match intelligence of too many players is alarmingly poor. We are found wanting in virtually every aspect of the game. I totally agree with those that are saying Artell is trying to get them to play in a way that they're not capable of playing. But then the question remains, what style of play could you implement with this team?!
The next few days are crucical. We need a right back, a left back, someone to replace Conteh cause Green is shite and can't do that role and another centre back at an absolute minimum if we're going to get ourselves out of trouble and not just rely on there being two teams that are worse than us. Hurst did a lot of good in the last two seasons but he's left us with an absolute turd of a squad.
Fingers crossed we get enough results to ensure we dont get relegated this season, then Artell can lose all those who are out of contract, and rebuild the majority of his squad with players who are good enough to play DA's system.
He inherited a group of, and i use the term loosely, 'professional' football players who seemingly are incapable of learning anything new, and are too stuck in their ways. We dont need or want players like that, but while we have no other options, then we have to make do and crack on for the rest of the season. Of course there will be many more ups and downs but come the end of the season, half the team are gone.
Can’t help but think we need to calm down just a little bit. That said I get the frustration and concern.
Terrible game, terrible performance - that cannot be denied. However I’ve seen nothing to suggest, in my opinion at least, that Artell isn’t more than capable of turning us around. We’re very inconsistent but other than today I’d say we’ve looked like we have lots of goals in us - a huge change from earlier this season.
Let’s give the bloke a chance to change the team around in the next few days. We’ve let some, what I’d imagine at least, high earners leave and by all accounts others maybe following. Busy couple of days ahead and I just think judgement of any manager that has improved us results wise (that’s just a fact) is premature before that’s had chance to happen.
I get from our recent history though that we’re always going to panic more than others - who’d blame us? However I remember the relegation conversation happening last year as well.
In a silly sort of way, today might be the best time to have a performance like that - focuses minds and efforts on improvement in the last few days of the window.
Some of these players though, that I’d been fairly cautious about going over the top at and thinking it’s to early to do so, are beginning to get to a point where you cannot keep defending/saying give them time to get it. (and I think DA was hinting at this post match)
They’ve lost one very good bloke and manager his job… and this is how some of them react.. it’s shameful for professional footballers. Mullarkey, Rodgers, Green, Eisa, Clifton etc is where I’m looking at predominantly.
We are entirely relying on the bottom two not staging a recovery. If one of them wins a couple of games it will be squeaky bum time. The players we have brought in are very inexperienced. We need to splash the cash in the next few days.
DA needs to find a system these numb heads can understand and start getting some results, or we are in big trouble Donny game is looking a massive 6 pointer.
Dont know about the points but i wouldn't be surprised to see 6 goals.
I was there, the day Bradley Wood scored a 35 yarder!
From the black and white striped shirts To the fish in the sea You'll hear us singing Coz we are Grimsby.
You won't hear us crying But you'll hear us shout Coz we are the Grimsby And this is our chant.......... Grimsby! Grimsby! Grimsby!
It’s a fair question. Certainly think his judgment is up for discussion at the very least, not just regarding the signings he’s made (albeit early days) but also regarding his team selections.
Too effin right his judgment is up for discussion. When a new Manager comes in and within a few weeks bins off all/most of his senior pros you know there is a problem. This bears all the hallmarks of Bignot .DA needs to steady the ship keep us up and then build his team in Summer. Clifton Rose Cartwright Holohan should pick themselves if fit after that well..........
Can’t help but think we need to calm down just a little bit. That said I get the frustration and concern.
Terrible game, terrible performance - that cannot be denied. However I’ve seen nothing to suggest, in my opinion at least, that Artell isn’t more than capable of turning us around. We’re very inconsistent but other than today I’d say we’ve looked like we have lots of goals in us - a huge change from earlier this season.
Let’s give the bloke a chance to change the team around in the next few days. We’ve let some, what I’d imagine at least, high earners leave and by all accounts others maybe following. Busy couple of days ahead and I just think judgement of any manager that has improved us results wise (that’s just a fact) is premature before that’s had chance to happen.
I get from our recent history though that we’re always going to panic more than others - who’d blame us? However I remember the relegation conversation happening last year as well.
In a silly sort of way, today might be the best time to have a performance like that - focuses minds and efforts on improvement in the last few days of the window.
Some of these players though, that I’d been fairly cautious about going over the top at and thinking it’s to early to do so, are beginning to get to a point where you cannot keep defending/saying give them time to get it. (and I think DA was hinting at this post match)
They’ve lost one very good bloke and manager his job… and this is how some of them react.. it’s shameful for professional footballers. Mullarkey, Rodgers, Green, Eisa, Clifton etc is where I’m looking at predominantly.
1-6 at home to a midtable Walsall suggests otherwise this followed by shipping another 5 at home wtf is Artell and his coaches working on to fix it?
The crux of the matter is, that Paul Hurst and Chris Doug were sacked because of poor form during the season, and because of the worrying position we found ourselves in, looking over our shoulders at relegation back to the National League.. And when you listened to the owners at that time, who were very regretful in having to sack Paul and Chris, they placed a lot of focus on statistical analysis, which appears to be the new modern approach to our football.
Fast forward the the appointment of David Artell and the here and now. David was appointed because the club felt he was a better option to get a tune out of Paul’s squad, with the minimal change in personnel that clubs can make in the January transfer window. So a judgement that David would likely be an improvement on Paul when working with the existing squad. And then when January came, a judgement that David could make the changes needed in personnel to improve the position. It was if you like, a vote of no confidence that the previous managers could get us to safety, then be trusted to rebuild and go again after a worrying blip with some mistakes this season. The trust and confidence has transferred to David Artell, to take what Paul had built, and improve it.
It’s now up to supporters to make their mind up whether or not we’ve made the right choice in David Artell. Whether or not he’s got a better tune out of the existing players with them improving. Whether or not he’s moved the right players on. Whether or not his January signings are an improvement on what Paul brought together.
It certainly is not wrong to judge him on whether or not he’s improved what Paul had assembled. Because that was exactly what he’s been employed to do. They are largely the tools he’s been given to work with, in the belief that he can do a better job with those tools than his predecessor. So it’s not wrong to judge him with those tools.
Then of course as supporters, a lot of opinions will be formed based on what we hear him say each week. Whether or not the supporters warm to his personality and demeanour. Whether or not they warm to him or feel is demeanour and personality is enjoyed and provides confidence in its appeal. Judge for yourselves whether or not this is a manager that you are likely to enjoy and take to your hearts.
The jury is out for me, and from what I read it would appear that’s the case for many of you. I certainly haven’t seen any significant improvement in the outcome using the same tools. If anything, I thought we saw more of an improvement when Shaun and Ben were in temporary charge. I felt they lifted the mood through their personalities, and were improving performances with the same set of tools to play with.
But we’ve got what we’ve got now, and we are likely to have to live with the owners choice now until the end of the season. They’ve made a call on what qualities they feel Davis Artell has, and so that is decision made. Personally I’m not 100% convinced that his short managerial career to date, even with a promotion, was sufficient to signal he’s the answer to our current woes and future prospects. Time will tell I suppose, and I’d be delighted to eventually see that the owner’s judgement has been sound and successful.
I am worried. I do fear the drop again, and this does feel just the same as the last occasions we dropped. I refuse to hang my hat on the cliche that there’s two worse teams below that. I’ve hoped for that before and been disappointed. So, I’m placing a huge responsibility and expectation onto David Artell to do what he’s been employed to do; improve upon what his predecessors did and look after our football club. That’s what he’s been employed to do, and I make no apologies for having that level of expectation.
I thought it was right to change managers and the first few games suggested the same but it seems to have gone stale very quickly. There’s an element of throwing the baby out with the bath water and we seem to have too many who aren’t able to play in the new manager’s way.
I wasn’t worried till yesterday. I think we’re playing with fire. It’s a big week upcoming for sure.
I suspect the owners will look at the data, particularly the form table over the last 6-12 games, and be shitting themselves. I certainly am anyway.
The sooner they accept that they made a mistake with the appointment the better the chance we have at staying up - right now we’re skydiving without a parachute. It is slightly unnerving the extent to which some fans are wearing the rose tints in this respect.
What is ridiculous is people like you who expect miracles to happen after DA has been in situ for only 7 weeks! He said in his first interview that this wouldn't be a quick fix but that it would take many months to get the team playing in the style he is used too. Also, the players he inherited are obviously not his choice, I am guessing he will hope to turn that around by the end of the Summer transfer window.
This thread title is a joke, and there is not a cat in hells chance that DA will be sacked any time soon!
What is ridiculous is people like you who expect miracles to happen after DA has been in situ for only 7 weeks! He said in his first interview that this wouldn't be a quick fix but that it would take many months to get the team playing in the style he is used too. Also, the players he inherited are obviously not his choice, I am guessing he will hope to turn that around by the end of the Summer transfer window.
This thread title is a joke, and there is not a cat in hells chance that DA will be sacked any time soon!
I do wish people could count. He was announced 9 weeks tomorrow.
I agree. It's the manager who's saying 'it's only 6 weeks' - it isn't and certainly wouldn't matter if things were getting better. But for the emotionally charged Notts County game, since Harrogate we've been woeful at home.
Whilst we are totally shite and Artell is the manager, how much is he to blame?
The squad is crap, only 2 signings were an improvement and one of those has gone. Hurst signed those players, but I'm not sure it's all his fault. He never signed shite like this before we had a head of recruitment and board pushing for us to play the 'Grimsby way'.
How many teams can you name that look in danger of relegation, struggle at the back but not particularly struggling to score go on to hire a manager with the intent of playing more expansive football? I can't think of a single instance where this has worked, it's always bring in a Spam Allardyce or Sean Dyche type to save you.
Artell's interviews worried me since day 1. I think he's incoherent, but these statements of how he'll improve the players etc worry me more. I think it's arrogant and players don't respond well to it. I think he's trying to get them to do too much outside their comfort zone. But that's the mandate he was brought in for. I don't for one second think Artell is the right man for this job. But I don't blame the scorpion for being a scorpion. I blame the people who thought a scorpion was what we needed.
Further to that, we've got a chairman who doesn't want to be here, or at least chairman, and is complaining about having to put money in. We've heard for 3 years about a new training ground, now we're waiting on legal stuff and have no way to fund it. It feels like the new stadium saga all over again. And somehow we spend a lot more money to be just as shite. The only thing we had going for us was that we're sustainable, we don't even have that anymore.
As I said a few times , my dad who is 82 has studied football for 70 years and the first thing he said was Artell will take you down . I get the feeling his interview massaged the ego of whoever interviewed him . He’s got one promotion but he also got sacked for a very poor run . That’s it , he won’t have a clue how to get us out of this relegation battle and looking at the home performances over the last few weeks I think my dad is spot on .
Further to that, we've got a chairman who doesn't want to be here, or at least chairman, and is complaining about having to put money in. We've heard for 3 years about a new training ground, now we're waiting on legal stuff and have no way to fund it. It feels like the new stadium saga all over again. And somehow we spend a lot more money to be just as shite. The only thing we had going for us was that we're sustainable, we don't even have that anymore.
Compared to the previous 15yrs of benign loans, failed relocation, emotional blackmailing of trust shares and relegation from the League , drunken ramblings , sink for the lady refs.....etc
I think we are in a much better position.
2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLW 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny
What is ridiculous is people like you who expect miracles to happen after DA has been in situ for only 7 weeks! He said in his first interview that this wouldn't be a quick fix but that it would take many months to get the team playing in the style he is used too. Also, the players he inherited are obviously not his choice, I am guessing he will hope to turn that around by the end of the Summer transfer window.
This thread title is a joke, and there is not a cat in hells chance that DA will be sacked any time soon!
Would you be happy to accept relegation as a consequence of Artell getting a squad to play his style?
Whilst we are totally shite and Artell is the manager, how much is he to blame?
The squad is crap, only 2 signings were an improvement and one of those has gone. Hurst signed those players, but I'm not sure it's all his fault. He never signed shite like this before we had a head of recruitment and board pushing for us to play the 'Grimsby way'.
How many teams can you name that look in danger of relegation, struggle at the back but not particularly struggling to score go on to hire a manager with the intent of playing more expansive football? I can't think of a single instance where this has worked, it's always bring in a Spam Allardyce or Sean Dyche type to save you.
Artell's interviews worried me since day 1. I think he's incoherent, but these statements of how he'll improve the players etc worry me more. I think it's arrogant and players don't respond well to it. I think he's trying to get them to do too much outside their comfort zone. But that's the mandate he was brought in for. I don't for one second think Artell is the right man for this job. But I don't blame the scorpion for being a scorpion. I blame the people who thought a scorpion was what we needed.
Further to that, we've got a chairman who doesn't want to be here, or at least chairman, and is complaining about having to put money in. We've heard for 3 years about a new training ground, now we're waiting on legal stuff and have no way to fund it. It feels like the new stadium saga all over again. And somehow we spend a lot more money to be just as shite. The only thing we had going for us was that we're sustainable, we don't even have that anymore.
That’s a superb post . I tend to agree that “the Grimsby way” is all very Disney and a bit childish tbh especially when you’re heading for relegation from the football league for the 3rd time with a back room staff that must be costing a fortune for very little end product on the pitch . JS and AP must of realised football is a bottom less pit . They’ve had more money to spend than any chairman in our modern history and here we are still scraping the barrel . It will never get this good on the terraces again . I’m sorry but you’ve blown it guys ,
This thing he keeps saying about it going to take many weeks to many months to get things right is just a saying to try and cover his back when things dont go well. Plain and simple
Information overload could be a problem for the players.
For me we were short of a good keeper and not much else but now we are all at seas rubbishing Tom, male private and Harry.
Still say Hurst should have been given the window.
Suspect we won’t be relegated but Genuine question though in DA do we trust? I think not.
Dont understand this we need a new keeper sentiment. To be fair to Cartwright, quite alot of the goals havent been his fault and theres been games then hes stoppped it being 6 or 7 (Mansfield for example springs straight to mind).
Not sure how you can say we only needed a keeper becuase this defence is the worst ive seen. And now, with no Conteh and no other player to pick yup the ball and distribute it, we are going to look even worse.
If i had my way, excluding loans, Rose would probably only be the player I would be dissapointed if they left at the end of the season. The rest, i couldn't give two hoots about leaving.
I think we need to cut the guy some slack after being here for such a short space of time.
And let’s not forget what a difficult month this has been for the club with young Cameron’s passing and Callum’s diagnosis. This is only the second game we’ve played since all of that news.
I was a huge Hursty fan but this season under him was diabolical and that is largely down to the squad he assembled. A massive downgrade on last season.
I’ve seen enough to think it’ll come good under Artell….MK, Crewe, Notts, Salford. Some of the best football I’ve seen is play in donkeys years (not a high bar admittedly). Just need to learn how to play against the uglier sides and get points on the board very quickly.
Also need to replace some of the players (conteh) and characters (waterfall) that have left. Hopefully we can do that.
I think it was a big mistake to insist on a particular playing style. First of all it rules out many managers. Secondly it rules out many players. Thirdly it takes no account of the current pool of players. To my mind you play to suit the players you have not the other way around. We claim to have a data driven approach but our insistence of playing the Grimsby Way seems to be based on nostalgia for a different era played under different constraints and not the reality of the assets we have. I predict Artell will be gone some time in 2024 and we will switch to a more pragmatic approach and maybe look at what the data we have is saying, not what we want it to say.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Encouraging performances and results v MK Dons, Crewe and Newport defeat against organised Harrogate and unsurprising defeat at Mansfield. Then excellent performance at Salford followed by chaos at home for 3 games. I think prior to those 3 home games we were mostly getting it and seeing a direction.
On this basis I can only conclude that we have tried too much, too soon that we are not capable of in those home games although we saw our attacking potential v Notts, completely sacrificed defence. It's perhaps important not to let the last 3 games cloud the work which I can only hope Artell is putting in. It is understandable that we are starting to get worried looking over our shoulders but it is hard to find any alternative option than to trust, with some constructive criticism along the way.
Just to recap on the past 7 days of The Fishy then;
- We shouldn’t buy young players and sell them on, it makes us look weak and we should abandon that proven model immediately
- We should sack a manager after 6 weeks and before he’s been able to bring his own players in
- Playing with an identity is not the way to go, instead we should revert to being ‘tough to beat’ and get a short term fix in to address that
- Long term plan? Long term plans don’t work, better to turn into blind panic after a few bad games, when did long term plans ever work?
I do despair at times, we wonder why our town is miles behind everyone else in almost every aspect. We say we want positive change, yet we push back on that change at almost every possible opportunity.
I think we need to cut the guy some slack after being here for such a short space of time.
And let’s not forget what a difficult month this has been for the club with young Cameron’s passing and Callum’s diagnosis. This is only the second game we’ve played since all of that news.
I was a huge Hursty fan but this season under him was diabolical and that is largely down to the squad he assembled. A massive downgrade on last season.
I’ve seen enough to think it’ll come good under Artell….MK, Crewe, Notts, Salford. Some of the best football I’ve seen is play in donkeys years (not a high bar admittedly). Just need to learn how to play against the uglier sides and get points on the board very quickly.
Also need to replace some of the players (conteh) and characters (waterfall) that have left. Hopefully we can do that.
Only one of the games quoted is in the last month and that was an emotionally charged game. We’re very much on a downward trajectory performance wise.
He is the polar opposite to Hurst isn't he ? in that tactically he only seems to think about his own team and doesn't pay much attention to the other .
I'm hardly a lower league football wizz but watch a few games and even I knew Apter would rip Glennon or Mullarkey to bits it was just a question of which one - Michee's athletic ability may well have been worth a thought , but seems like he's out in the cold and will probably leave .
Artell is coming over as increasingly nervous and scrambled in his interviews which is another worry .
I am spending increasing lengths of time in the bar rather than watching the game , let's not pull the wool over anyone's eyes the last 18 months at home on the whole have been nothing short of pathetic really , how we retain the 2500+ new ST holders after this lot I don't know, whether the club goes or manages to just hang on . The club has moved forward off the pitch , but on it , it's just seemingly reverted back to 'same old ' .
Like I said above I’m still 100% supportive of Artell, hopefully all being well he’ll just slow down the rate of change a bit.
Like most of us on here despite watching football for the best part of half a century I don’t really know much about professional football coaching & management.
What I have a lot of experience in is change management in under performing organisations the first thing you do it fix the biggest fundamental issue holding things back & keep things really simple, people only have so much bandwidth.
Our biggest issue seems to have been we’re easy to beat as we can’t defend, you would think “making us hard to beat” aka fixing our defence would have been top of the “to do” list but in mid week Artell said they’d only just started work on the defence either side of the cancelled Harrogate game. He’s the manager and knows best but that approach seems to have left us looking at the bottom 2s results every Saturday & it’s only January FFS.
My view is that the players are as much to blame as anyone. It looks like a mix of will & skill stopping us progressing. There is a lack of application here from too many who either aren’t putting in the effort to apply themselves in terms of work rate or indeed just following instructions.
Look at the first goal yesterday again, Glennon stopped chasing before the scorer actually got his shot off. Eisa makes a good break, Rose drops off to pull the trigger but instead of passing to Rose, Eisa goes for the hero finish from a tight angle & fluffed it badly.
1878 came in & told us they’d be careful custodians and they’ve been more than true to their word, Artell has said similar & given the tools he will be for sure.
The problem is the players (excluding Rose & home town lad Clifton) don't get that they need to be better custodians of something that’s so important to us and start doing what they get paid for to get us moving up the table.
Oh & by the way the January window will not fix this unless we’re incredibly lucky with a couple of finds.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Just to recap on the past 7 days of The Fishy then;
- We shouldn’t buy young players and sell them on, it makes us look weak and we should abandon that proven model immediately
- We should sack a manager after 6 weeks and before he’s been able to bring his own players in
- Playing with an identity is not the way to go, instead we should revert to being ‘tough to beat’ and get a short term fix in to address that
- Long term plan? Long term plans don’t work, better to turn into blind panic after a few bad games, when did long term plans ever work?
I do despair at times, we wonder why our town is miles behind everyone else in almost every aspect. We say we want positive change, yet we push back on that change at almost every possible opportunity.
I think the point about the ‘long term plan’ is that we’re not ready for it, and it we’re not careful then that plan might have to be executed in the league below (again). I’m all for the way Artell wants us to play and his ‘identity’, and at times it’s looked good, but when it goes wrong it’s catastrophic, quite literally. I don’t think changing the manager at this moment is a wise move but he needs to stop being so stubborn, and if he can’t then this won’t end well for all parties.
"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"
John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
He is the polar opposite to Hurst isn't he ? in that tactically he only seems to think about his own team and doesn't pay much attention to the other .
I'm hardly a lower league football wizz but watch a few games and even I knew Apter would rip Glennon or Mullarkey to bits it was just a question of which one - Michee's athletic ability may well have been worth a thought , but seems like he's out in the cold and will probably leave .
Artell is coming over as increasingly nervous and scrambled in his interviews which is another worry .
I am spending increasing lengths of time in the bar rather than watching the game , let's not pull the wool over anyone's eyes the last 18 months at home on the whole have been nothing short of pathetic really , how we retain the 2500+ new ST holders after this lot I don't know, whether the club goes or manages to just hang on . The club has moved forward off the pitch , but on it , it's just seemingly reverted back to 'same old ' .
Very worried
I wouldn’t believe for a minute that Artell doesn’t look at the opposition, he even said a couple of weeks ago that he went home & watched a couple of our next opponents games.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I do not pay much attention to what a manager says (DA). I do care what he does and doesn’t do.
Eg, not sure what Wood has shown in training to justify a start. The team set-up was clearly not working after 5 minutes. It took until the 87th min to make real changes. We struggled badly against an average team at home.
An equal concern is that other poor teams, or poorer teams are picking up points. Colchester and Salford with away wins. Sutton got their second consecutive away point. Including a draw at Mansfield.
At least FGR had the decency to lose and Donney have a defence as bad as ours. Our safety cushion does not look very secure. Our decent goal-difference is probably our strongest asset. Very sad.
All the more reason with starting with a more experienced midfield yesterday. Or changing it when it is very clear to all fans that it was not working. He didn’t.
Some results and performances have been encouraging recently. Not sustained though. DA said that yesterday was nowhere near an acceptable standard. He also said that the performance was worse than the 6-1 defeat to Walsall.
I do not pay much attention to what a manager says (DA). I do care what he does and doesn’t do.
Eg, not sure what Wood has shown in training to justify a start. The team set-up was clearly not working after 5 minutes. It took until the 87th min to make real changes. We struggled badly against an average team at home.
An equal concern is that other poor teams, or poorer teams are picking up points. Colchester and Salford with away wins. Sutton got their second consecutive away point. Including a draw at Mansfield.
At least FGR had the decency to lose and Donney have a defence as bad as ours. Our safety cushion does not look very secure. Our decent goal-difference is probably our strongest asset. Very sad.
All the more reason with starting with a more experienced midfield yesterday. Or changing it when it is very clear to all fans that it was not working. He didn’t.
Some results and performances have been encouraging recently. Not sustained though. DA said that yesterday was nowhere near an acceptable standard. He also said that the performance was worse than the 6-1 defeat to Walsall.
Ok, but you are the manager!
Good point on Wood. Granted, he’s only started one game but he looked out of his depth and his delivery and corners extremely poor. He was playing as if he had all the time and space in the world, but unfortunately you don’t get that in English football.
Crikey remind me , I/ We support Grimsby Town and not Chelsea who can sack managers left right and centre these last 2/3 years. After the Walsall game then "that 5-5 match !", and a lose yesterday, Could we afford to sack David Artell Without giving him abit more time with the squad he has to manage at least till the end of the season. Another thread = "relegation odds "- pack that it for starters too.
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Just to recap on the past 7 days of The Fishy then;
- We shouldn’t buy young players and sell them on, it makes us look weak and we should abandon that proven model immediately
- We should sack a manager after 6 weeks and before he’s been able to bring his own players in
- Playing with an identity is not the way to go, instead we should revert to being ‘tough to beat’ and get a short term fix in to address that
- Long term plan? Long term plans don’t work, better to turn into blind panic after a few bad games, when did long term plans ever work?
I do despair at times, we wonder why our town is miles behind everyone else in almost every aspect. We say we want positive change, yet we push back on that change at almost every possible opportunity.
Agree with that you are saying
But 7 or 8 half decent performances in about 40 home league games is unacceptable by any standard isn't it ?
Good point on Wood. Granted, he’s only started one game but he looked out of his depth and his delivery and corners extremely poor. He was playing as if he had all the time and space in the world, but unfortunately you don’t get that in English football.
I’d love to know the rationale of putting two young loanees in front of Green instead of Clifton & Gav? I just don’t get it.
I noticed that Tranmere where getting stuck into Wood, nudging him at ever opportunity, in his ear and generally doing a good job at putting him off, I know they wouldn’t have taken that approach with either Gav or Clifton.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Just to recap on the past 7 days of The Fishy then;
- We shouldn’t buy young players and sell them on, it makes us look weak and we should abandon that proven model immediately
- We should sack a manager after 6 weeks and before he’s been able to bring his own players in
- Playing with an identity is not the way to go, instead we should revert to being ‘tough to beat’ and get a short term fix in to address that
- Long term plan? Long term plans don’t work, better to turn into blind panic after a few bad games, when did long term plans ever work?
I do despair at times, we wonder why our town is miles behind everyone else in almost every aspect. We say we want positive change, yet we push back on that change at almost every possible opportunity.
Do you continue with the long-term plan if relegation to non-league AGAIN starts to look like a real possibility, or do you tweak the long-term plan to make sure the club is still in the EFL next season?
Whilst we are totally shite and Artell is the manager, how much is he to blame?
The squad is crap, only 2 signings were an improvement and one of those has gone. Hurst signed those players, but I'm not sure it's all his fault. He never signed shite like this before we had a head of recruitment and board pushing for us to play the 'Grimsby way'.
How many teams can you name that look in danger of relegation, struggle at the back but not particularly struggling to score go on to hire a manager with the intent of playing more expansive football? I can't think of a single instance where this has worked, it's always bring in a Spam Allardyce or Sean Dyche type to save you.
Artell's interviews worried me since day 1. I think he's incoherent, but these statements of how he'll improve the players etc worry me more. I think it's arrogant and players don't respond well to it. I think he's trying to get them to do too much outside their comfort zone. But that's the mandate he was brought in for. I don't for one second think Artell is the right man for this job. But I don't blame the scorpion for being a scorpion. I blame the people who thought a scorpion was what we needed.
Further to that, we've got a chairman who doesn't want to be here, or at least chairman, and is complaining about having to put money in. We've heard for 3 years about a new training ground, now we're waiting on legal stuff and have no way to fund it. It feels like the new stadium saga all over again. And somehow we spend a lot more money to be just as shite. The only thing we had going for us was that we're sustainable, we don't even have that anymore.
Just to recap on the past 7 days of The Fishy then;
- We shouldn’t buy young players and sell them on, it makes us look weak and we should abandon that proven model immediately
- We should sack a manager after 6 weeks and before he’s been able to bring his own players in
- Playing with an identity is not the way to go, instead we should revert to being ‘tough to beat’ and get a short term fix in to address that
- Long term plan? Long term plans don’t work, better to turn into blind panic after a few bad games, when did long term plans ever work?
I do despair at times, we wonder why our town is miles behind everyone else in almost every aspect. We say we want positive change, yet we push back on that change at almost every possible opportunity.
Brilliant post this town is full of moaners and the change in attitudes/opinions after a game of footy within the fanbase is astounding
Do you continue with the long-term plan if relegation to non-league AGAIN starts to look like a real possibility, or do you tweak the long-term plan to make sure the club is still in the EFL next season?
It’s just kicking the can down the road, a short term fix writes off next season already. IF Artell can get his message across over the next part of the season we leave ourselves in good shape for the season after.
Of course relegation is possible but I genuinely cannot see that happening, call me naive but I just don’t think over the course of 18 games we’re bad enough to go down.
Artell has been here 6 weeks and the window isn’t shut yet, how anybody can completely write him off after a few games (some of which have been very good) is beyond me.
Crewe played some of the best football I’ve seen in this division under him, it took him a while to get that going for them from a very similar position to the one we find ourselves in now.
Glennon & Mullarkey were left completely exposed when we were attempting to play out from the back. Nobody offering themselves to either. None of the midfield 5 were giving either any options.
I know I’m like a stuck record but central midfield is our main issue. It was when we had Conteh and even more so without him. He didn’t offer much going forward but he was always willing to offer himself and try to link the play.
Wood & Andrews both look decent but they need experience along side them. It was boys against men yesterday.
Re: Artell
I didn’t understand the hype. I don’t see that he did anything remarkable at Crewe to deserve the sort of response his appointment was met with.
I’m gonna make a prediction. He won’t last a year as Head Coach. He might not even make 6 months.
Sack Artell and that’s the Conteh money gone. Not going to happen however bad it gets.
Maybe that’s why Conteh was sold, insurance money just in case.
I’m being massively sarcastic Artell won’t be sacked, I believe he’ll get it right and we won’t get relegated but tte next 4 months are going to be painful I suspect
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Glennon & Mullarkey were left completely exposed when we were attempting to play out from the back. Nobody offering themselves to either. None of the midfield 5 were giving either any options.
I know I’m like a stuck record but central midfield is our main issue. It was when we had Conteh and even more so without him. He didn’t offer much going forward but he was always willing to offer himself and try to link the play.
Wood & Andrews both look decent but they need experience along side them. It was boys against men yesterday.
Re: Artell
I didn’t understand the hype. I don’t see that he did anything remarkable at Crewe to deserve the sort of response his appointment was met with.
I’m gonna make a prediction. He won’t last a year as Head Coach. He might not even make 6 months.
Very feasible, 19 months out of work having applied for any job going.
Always prepared to accept it could work as with any appointment, but most don’t at all levels. Pesky stats tell all and if it goes wrong a flack jacket needed, cheep option and all that will ring loudly.
DA had 2 weeks to sort out the defence since the Notts Cty game having let 5 in that day and 6 the week before. I saw nothing to show an improved defence, nor attack.
I just wonder what he has been doing down at Cheapside during this time. It's alright DA saying it'll take time to play his way, but we are now a club languishing at the lower end of the table, not mid-table. Time is a luxury we don't have and need improvement now.
I'm still 100% behind Artell but in need of some improvement in the way the team play.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Glennon & Mullarkey were left completely exposed when we were attempting to play out from the back. Nobody offering themselves to either. None of the midfield 5 were giving either any options.
I know I’m like a stuck record but central midfield is our main issue. It was when we had Conteh and even more so without him. He didn’t offer much going forward but he was always willing to offer himself and try to link the play.
Wood & Andrews both look decent but they need experience along side them. It was boys against men yesterday.
Re: Artell
I didn’t understand the hype. I don’t see that he did anything remarkable at Crewe to deserve the sort of response his appointment was met with.
I’m gonna make a prediction. He won’t last a year as Head Coach. He might not even make 6 months.
He took a team in a similar position to ours, with a worse budget than ours and kept them up. He then built on that season by season and then took them up... To say he didn't do anything remarkable is quite ignorant.
I think there's been some really pleasing things whilst he's been here, there's also been some majorly dissapointing things. The problem is that's the story of the season and has been since the very start. We drew 1-1 with Bradford in a game we largely dominated and should of taken 3 points from and then went to Wrexham and got battered. We then follow that up by throwing away a 2 goal lead at home to Crawley. I think there's quite a short term thinking in saying Artell is the problem, this team is the problem. All well and good saying he should sacrifice his principles to gain points, was it something like throwing 17 points away from winning positions at the start of the season? This team has no heart or any fight. Artell said we were meh when he arrived, I think he underestimated just how shite we were. You can look at a team from the outside and see them as ' meh ' but you really won't know about them until you get in that changing room and the going gets tough and I personally wouldn't want any of these in the trenches with me.. barring Danny Rose. Nobody shows any charachter in a game barring that man, it's not even about just a bit of quality. Nobody flying into a challenge to get the crowd going, nobody getting us off our seats. As Roy Keane once said ' smash into somebody, make yourself feel a bit better ' all it takes is one moment to change a game and we have 0 game changes in any aspect of the word.
I'm not convinced that yesterday was anything to do with Artell's style of play because the players didn't even to attemp to play in that style. I'm more inclined to to wonder just how many he's told are not in his plans for next season and that this has affected morale.
I just can't fathom how we managed to play MK Dons off the park with tiki-taka style football (within days of him taking over) and then play like late era Slade yesterday.
There was a comment on the Just Back thread that they thought the effort was there yesterday.
We could be generous here. But Tranmere were always busting a gut to get into good forward positions. Helping each other out. Even when the game was well within their control. Good team spirit from an average team, still better than us,
Yet another game though where we did not get a key tackle in when it was needed.
He took a team in a similar position to ours, with a worse budget than ours and kept them up. He then built on that season by season and then took them up... To say he didn't do anything remarkable is quite ignorant.
He got promoted on PPG having played just 37 matches but having played all of the bottom 8 twice and only 2 of other 9 teams in the top 10 twice. i.e. they were facing a b*stard of a run in and based on their results against the top teams they would likely have dropped down the table.
But we’ll never know.
But what I will say is, a promotion based on PPG after the season stopped suddenly and without warning is a much less significant achievement than a promotion over a full 46 matches having played everyone home and away.
The fact that nobody poached him from Crewe after the promotion or when they finished 12th in L1 in the empty stadium season probably tells us something though.
I'm not convinced that yesterday was anything to do with Artell's style of play because the players didn't even to attemp to play in that style. I'm more inclined to to wonder just how many he's told are not in his plans for next season and that this has affected morale.
I just can't fathom how we managed to play MK Dons off the park with tiki-taka style football (within days of him taking over) and then play like late era Slade yesterday.
I also wonder how many of the lads who’s deals are up have already told their agents to look for a move instead of waiting on the “possibility” they might get a new deal with Town and have already called time in their heads on their GTFC careers.
Maybe the players are also p1ssed off with Artell as the departures now mean they have to re-think their car shares 😂
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
He got promoted on PPG having played just 37 matches but having played all of the bottom 8 twice and only 2 of other 9 teams in the top 10 twice. i.e. they were facing a b*stard of a run in and based on their results against the top teams they would likely have dropped down the table.
But we’ll never know.
But what I will say is, a promotion based on PPG after the season stopped suddenly and without warning is a much less significant achievement than a promotion over a full 46 matches having played everyone home and away.
The fact that nobody poached him from Crewe after the promotion or when they finished 12th in L1 in the empty stadium season probably tells us something though.
Exactly what i've just said, it's just pure ignorance to suggest that and you just again contradicted yourself as finishing 12th in L1 with Crewe is quite a remarkable achievement. You don't know that there wasn't attempts? A promotion is a promotion, I wouldn't care how we went up. You are speaking in conjecture and I am talking in facts, what he did at Crewe was remarkable. You can speak on what he's doing here without downplaying his previous achievements.
At one point yesterday Artell pulled all the players in and he did his imaginary accepting the ball, then playing in forward thing which I’ve noticed he does most games. Nigel Atkins stood and watched with a big smile on his face. It’s odd, coaching like that makes me wonder what they do a cheapside as surely that’s the place for such things……it’s all very odd and I’m getting quite worried about it all.
Exactly what i've just said, it's just pure ignorance to suggest that and you just again contradicted yourself as finishing 12th in L1 with Crewe is quite a remarkable achievement. You don't know that there wasn't attempts? A promotion is a promotion, I wouldn't care how we went up. You are speaking in conjecture and I am talking in facts, what he did at Crewe was remarkable. You can speak on what he's doing here without downplaying his previous achievements.
Remarkable? Really? He did well but what John Coleman mk2 did at Accrington and Derek Adams at Morecambe at that level were far more impressive than DA’s achievement at Crewe.
And of course there weren’t attempts to poach him. If A Barnsley or an Oxford or a Peterborough offered to double or treble his wages or a Championship club offered to multiple his salary by x he’d have been gone in a shot.
DA is like a nice house you’ve seen when looking to move house.. You think it’s a great house at a great price, but you wonder why it’s been on the market for a year and no one else has bought it. There must be a flaw that everyone else has seen that you haven’t.
And achievements in the 2019/20 season in L1 & L2 simply cannot be held in the same regards as a full season of 46 matches. The integrity of playing everybody twice, once at home & once away hasn’t been fulfilled.
I'm hearing mutterings he's lost the dressing room already hence players are going because they all take the urine out ofvhim behind his back.Just shows how sh1t modern football is the players have all the power and its always the fans that suffer
I'm hearing mutterings he's lost the dressing room already hence players are going because they all take the urine out ofvhim behind his back.Just shows how sh1t modern football is the players have all the power and its always the fans that suffer
They’ve hung Hurst out to dry and now Artell ? Who do they think they are Man Utd ? Ffs
I'm hearing mutterings he's lost the dressing room already hence players are going because they all take the urine out ofvhim behind his back.Just shows how sh1t modern football is the players have all the power and its always the fans that suffer
Heard a murmur of that this week myself but it isn’t the first time so I always take it with a massive amount of salt and just put down to the gossip nature of football supporters.. Usually it’s likely one player that’s not in the team or been told they can leave that’s started playing silly buggers.
If I was remotely Artell out, which I’ve already said I’m not, then this would make me go the other way.
If true, again that’s an if, then they’re a disgrace. They’re professional footballers and should act as such. Some of their performances this year are an embarrassment and they really aren’t in a position to think they ‘know better’. They should be embarrassed that they have no professional pride.
It was time to let Paul go, but it has always annoyed me that these players basically lost a good man and club legend his job - don’t like playing professional league football? There’s plenty that do - so intercourse off.
I'm hearing mutterings he's lost the dressing room already hence players are going because they all take the urine out ofvhim behind his back.Just shows how sh1t modern football is the players have all the power and its always the fans that suffer
Probably because like modern day footballers, they need their tears wiping away when they're told a few home truths about how excrement they are!..
They’ve hung Hurst out to dry and now Artell ? Who do they think they are Man Utd ? Ffs
It's depressing they have this sort of power. I know its singling someone out but Eisa yesterday in terms of his actual effort did he really do his best in terms of workrate? On that showing he'd never play for me ever again he showed zero interest. The rest where crap but looked to be trying 🤔
If the rumour of losing the dressing room is true, just where do these lads reckon their career is headed if we go down? If we were to be relegated this season which of our players would ever play in the FL again? Rose, Clifton, Eisa, Vernam maybe, Cartwright and maybe Pyke? The loan lads are young so may still salvage a career but the likes of Mullarkey, Green, Maher, Rodgers and Glennon could kiss their FL careers goodbye.
If it’s true, and it’s still an if, then they’re an absolute disgrace the lot of them. And I’d happily say it to their faces because barring Rose we’ve seen not one of them has the bottle to stand up for themselves. Fcuking boll0ck-less wasters.
Heard a murmur of that this week myself but it isn’t the first time so I always take it with a massive amount of salt and just put down to the gossip nature of football supporters.. Usually it’s likely one player that’s not in the team or been told they can leave that’s started playing silly buggers.
If I was remotely Artell out, which I’ve already said I’m not, then this would make me go the other way.
If true, again that’s an if, then they’re a disgrace. They’re professional footballers and should act as such. Some of their performances this year are an embarrassment and they really aren’t in a position to think they ‘know better’. They should be embarrassed that they have no professional pride.
It was time to let Paul go, but it has always annoyed me that these players basically lost a good man and club legend his job - don’t like playing professional league football? There’s plenty that do - so intercourse off.
If it's true, it's disgraceful, but we need them to stay up, and if that means Artell has to go in order for that to happen, then so be it. We can get rid of the trouble makers in the summer, but it is absolutely imperative that we stay up.
Heard a murmur of that this week myself but it isn’t the first time so I always take it with a massive amount of salt and just put down to the gossip nature of football supporters.. Usually it’s likely one player that’s not in the team or been told they can leave that’s started playing silly buggers.
If I was remotely Artell out, which I’ve already said I’m not, then this would make me go the other way.
If true, again that’s an if, then they’re a disgrace. They’re professional footballers and should act as such. Some of their performances this year are an embarrassment and they really aren’t in a position to think they ‘know better’. They should be embarrassed that they have no professional pride.
It was time to let Paul go, but it has always annoyed me that these players basically lost a good man and club legend his job - don’t like playing professional league football? There’s plenty that do - so intercourse off.
The problem DA faces is he has none of “his men” in the dressing room, when PH came back his first signing was LJL someone who was loyal to Hurst and he knew he could trust. Also I think Macca was still the captain and Harry Clifton also knew that it was wise to stay loyal to Hurst.
I watched ATAW last weekend and thought it was brilliant, made me laugh & cry with pride at the same time.
Many of our current squad look nothing like the side that got us up in terms of work rate, team spirit, dogged resilience and pride in being a professional footballer.
When we went down in last time the squad was a car crash in terms of its make up & the deals/loans etc.. too many lads not invested in the club. This lot are surely on better terms and play in an almost full BP each week, so why not apply yourself & put the effort in?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Also been told he’s lost the dressing room. Another reason why Conteh asked to leave asap. That was a couple of days before the match yesterday and they certainly played true to that yesterday.
Also been told he’s lost the dressing room. Another reason why Conteh asked to leave asap. That was a couple of days before the match yesterday and they certainly played true to that yesterday.
He needs to get his own back room boys in . Pearson , Davies , Croudson all played a huge part this season. Artells downfall is he’s now on his own , which would explain his defeated look yesterday.
Also been told he’s lost the dressing room. Another reason why Conteh asked to leave asap. That was a couple of days before the match yesterday and they certainly played true to that yesterday.
You seem generally well informed did you hear the same story that it was a spat with senior players and the way one in particular was singled out because he disagreed with DA about set pieces?
I'm hearing mutterings he's lost the dressing room already hence players are going because they all take the urine out ofvhim behind his back.Just shows how sh1t modern football is the players have all the power and its always the fans that suffer
To be fair I would imagine players in certain positions bring told to play a way they can't and that invites pressure and mistakes are probably hating it and feeling drunk off. I know I am cringing when for the umpteenth time we play a goal kick to the 2 CBs who pass amongst themselves then to mullarkey who is pressured by the oppo and plays it back to a CB and the boos begin. I doubt these are the players ideal way of playing and they probably feel they are being hung out to dry a bit in front of thousands.
To be fair I would imagine players in certain positions bring told to play a way they can't and that invites pressure and mistakes are probably hating it and feeling drunk off. I know I am cringing when for the umpteenth time we play a goal kick to the 2 CBs who pass amongst themselves then to mullarkey who is pressured by the oppo and plays it back to a CB and the boos begin. I doubt these are the players ideal way of playing and they probably feel they are being hung out to dry a bit in front of thousands.
I agree with what you say. The CBs get the grief but many including myself have pointed out with the exception of Rose nobody wanted the ball yesterday.I don't know the answer but id drop Eisa or play him as a 10 behind/off Rose.Amos and Glennon on the left Efete and Vernam on the right Gav Clifton in the middle .Maher picks himself probablyThame alongside and Cartwright in goal.
Also been told he’s lost the dressing room. Another reason why Conteh asked to leave asap. That was a couple of days before the match yesterday and they certainly played true to that yesterday.
I think I remember reading on the Crewe forum he lost their dressing room as well before he left.
I was surprised to see 4 town players not in the matchday squad drive off together about 20 mins before KO against County. Waterfall and Hunt, I forget who else. Probably totally normal and explainable but something I’ve not seen before
I agree with what you say. The CBs get the grief but many including myself have pointed out with the exception of Rose nobody wanted the ball yesterday.I don't know the answer but id drop Eisa or play him as a 10 behind/off Rose.Amos and Glennon on the left Efete and Vernam on the right Gav Clifton in the middle .Maher picks himself probablyThame alongside and Cartwright in goal.
I would be happy to see that tried but no way that side can play the Artell way, so we would have to change from playing out from the back and passing through midfield. Efete can't do it and a Clifton and holohan midfield battles and provides energy and drive but doesn't retain the ball well. Would Artell be willing to swallow his pride and do that?
Not that the 100 percent Artell way is working either at the moment usually, if teams counter it.
You seem generally well informed did you hear the same story that it was a spat with senior players and the way one in particular was singled out because he disagreed with DA about set pieces?
Other than Gav & Rose have we actually got any proper “senior” players? We’ve got a few with games under their belt but we lack “senior pros” at the minute, sounds like just a different term but behaviour wise it’s massive
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Just wanna put it out there that a lost dressing room and drunk off a few players that have underperformed and deserve a few home truths are slightly different things.
Not doubting what your saying guys, just important to think about imo as we do hear ’lost the players’ a lot in football
You seem generally well informed did you hear the same story that it was a spat with senior players and the way one in particular was singled out because he disagreed with DA about set pieces?
Has said senior player left the club (Waterfall) or never getting started (Holohan)?
Losing the dressing room is unproven. However, if there is ANY substance to these statements then it is very bad because a) we are in a relegation fight and b) it is so early in his time as our manager.
Then you get into the area of the Club taking a long time to appoint the right manager.
Just wanna put it out there that a lost dressing room and drunk off a few players that have underperformed and deserve a few home truths are slightly different things.
Not doubting what your saying guys, just important to think about imo as we do hear ’lost the players’ a lot in football
Yes that's a fair point, it's a massively over used term in football.
It's overwhelmingly performance based, if your winning it doesn't get called that, people refer to certain individuals being 'told in no uncertain terms' things or whatever. If your losing the same situation with an individual will be referred to as losing the dressing room
Re him apparently losing the dressing room at Crewe, think someone mentioned it earlier. The club spoke to lots and lots of passed players and club officials - that’s not a secret they made it clear.
Therefore I doubt it’s true, or not exactly as described, as that would have come up.
I'm not entirely sure from watching recently that the squad are behind Artell.
I don't think he seems like the type of man to galvanise a team, or that players would relate to.
His interviews seem slightly clueless and arrogant - his answer to most criticism / doubt is "I've done it before". It is important to remember he 'did' it in the strange times of covid where the season ended up being decided by avg points per game in the end. Before then they had not been impressive at all. Manager's do sometimes have seasons where they perhaps ride momentum and luck but are unable to ever replicate that again - think Claudio Ranieri at leicester - has not been able to replicate anything even slightly similar since.
The other thing I really dont like is when he is asked about what went wrong today - he consistently seems unable to give a clear answer and often puts it on the players - acting like it is them who must come up with the answer. It is DA's job to teach the players how to play, and to tactically arrange them to negate risk and exploit loopholes/weaknesses.
At the moment DA says things like "The players couldn't work out how to play against xxx" or "They need to work out how to score and how to play" - its almost as if he wants them to work it all out through their own intuition - Managers exist for a reason because this is their job . Its like strategic warfare, you can have the best soldiers in the world, but you need a plan and leadership to deliver victory...
As other people have said, there must be a reason DA has been unsuccessful in so many other job interviews at bigger , more progressive clubs that are heading in better directions than us at present...
As people have suggested before, this is a relegation scrap - we need to focus on survival and doing the basics right - not over-ambitious, flamboyant football that teams in the top leagues with top players have the luxury of being able to try.
It worries me that Davies and Pearson who have little managerial experience seemed to understand this , and were more capable of delivering this / progressively improving the team than Artell.
Show me a decent manager who’s not lost his job when the dressing room was behind him?
So here’s a scenario agent says to out of contract player “your deals up but Hartlepool, Halifax, York, Oldham, Rochdale, Gateshead or any other club close to your home (less commute) will offer you 2 years now, it’s a bit less money but there’s a bonus, you might be the captain and it’s less commute cost and a shorter working day, plus you can share a car with AN Other who tells me its brilliant there at the moment.
You’re going down a league so should start, Artell has told me he’ll only talk to me about you from February onwards and nothings guarantee.
So do you want to see whet Grimsby can offer or sign a pre contract agreement now to start on July 1st?”
Or alternatively, “Artell has told both of us you’re not in his plans & I’m not getting any interest as he’s not giving you enough/any game time to show what a good player you are”.
Would you be busting a gut or be Mr Happy around the training ground?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
If thats true, then the players go can go intercourse themselves. Ive not taken to a hell of a lot of them, and they downed tools under Hurst and cost a good man his job.
Who the intercourse do they think they are? They are average at best league 2 footballers, getting paid handsomely to be consistently shite. flipping grow some balls, show some pride and fight.
If thats true, then the players go can go intercourse themselves. Ive not taken to a hell of a lot of them, and they downed tools under Hurst and cost a good man his job.
Who the intercourse do they think they are? They are average at best league 2 footballers, getting paid handsomely to be consistently shite. flipping grow some balls, show some pride and fight.
If only that were true. How many times this season have we seen a severely limited opposition at least do the basics right and comfortably beat us?
Whoever it is send them down to the youth team to train, gotta crack down on this sort of nonsense straight away, this has really drunk me off. Fuming
They’ll just create more toxicity in the car share if you do that. Players aren’t that bright, if one manipulative individual wants to put poison in the well there’s plenty of early/mid 20s lads who’ll listen.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
If certain players have downed tools, i'd expect to see them out the door before the deadline. I really don't have any affection towards any of this squad so I couldn't really give a urine who was to leave.
If it is true that certain players are bad apples which I can believe in fairness, how did Hurst get it wrong when he signed them? He's normally an excellent judge of character and values team spirit so why did he sign these players who are "bad apples"
It's all very Bignot, isn't it. I don't know if this losing the dressing room is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is. The way he speaks would urine me off and these lot don't seem like the ultra professional lot Hurst usually signs.
It's all very Bignot, isn't it. I don't know if this losing the dressing room is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is. The way he speaks would urine me off and these lot don't seem like the ultra professional lot Hurst usually signs.
The difference being Bignot had a big squad of better players to keep him out of jail, Artell has a mix of fannies & Donkeys alongside a few honest lads.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
If it is true that certain players are bad apples which I can believe in fairness, how did Hurst get it wrong when he signed them? He's normally an excellent judge of character and values team spirit so why did he sign these players who are "bad apples"
The difference being Bignot had a big squad of better players to keep him out of jail, Artell has a mix of fannies & Donkeys alongside a few honest lads.
I don’t recall the squad being much, if any, better than current, Bogle was gone and we went almost straight into relegation fight mode the following season.
The body language of some of the players looked off yesterday I remember remarking at the time. Think trying to change a large part of the playing staff and the way we play too much in January is not a great thing for team spirit and should have been left to the pre season..
Certainly getting Bignot vibes and all this talk of how long it's gonna take to improve things do managers at any level get that much time.
I don’t recall the squad being much, if any, better than current, Bogle was gone and we went almost straight into relegation fight mode the following season.
Macca, Danny Andrew, Shaun, Danny Collins, Jamie Osborne, Chris Clements (good when fit) Dis, Callum Dyson, Sam Jones (started well) Dom Vose ( the cameo king) even Andy Boyce & Zak Mills where better than we have now.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I think I have posted before that I took a dislike to Artell long before he was anywhere near the GTFC job. Can remember when he was at Crewe and I watched a couple of his post match interviews when they played us and thought "who is this arrogant sod with Harold Lloyd glasses"?
Now that may be unfair, and he may be a wonderful coach and person, but he just rubbed me up the wrong way for some reason, and maybe he does that to others, including the players in the squad. When he was mentioned as a candidate for our job, I thought well, if he gets it, he will get my backing as I back all our managers and players, and will have an open mind.
So far it been a bit of a curates egg of performances, and the last two games couldn't have been more different. Wonderful entertainment against County, and Mike Newell levels of ineptitude yesterday.
So the question is- have we got a bullsh1tter who has blagged his way into the job and dazzled the owners with his spreadsheets and university degrees, or have we got a good coach who has ruffled a few feathers and will eventually prevail? I only hope it's the second option and have no reason to think otherwise yet, because we have played some great stuff at times.
I posted a link some weeks back to a Codalmighty article, which laid out how terrible our EFL record has been over the last 20 years and Poojah also brought up the same subject in his just back post yesterday. We have had umpteen managers and literally hundreds of players in that time, but the closest anyone has got us looking like we can compete in league 2 is PH last season and Slade 20 years ago.
So, I have to ask, is it going to take a complete change of philosophy and playing style to crack this particular nut and is Artell the man to finally drag us kicking and screaming into the 21st century? It may be that we have to dismantle everything, and try a new approach, which is going down like a sh1t sandwich at the moment with some fans, and it seems some of the players too, although I have no idea if tales of unrest are true.
Maybe this is what it is going to take to finally become an established league side pushing for promotion in the future, but it's going to be a bumpy ride along the way. I hope so, because our continued struggles are getting really tedious now.
I think I have posted before that I took a dislike to Artell long before he was anywhere near the GTFC job. Can remember when he was at Crewe and I watched a couple of his post match interviews when they played us and thought "who is this arrogant sod with Harold Lloyd glasses"?
Now that may be unfair, and he may be a wonderful coach and person, but he just rubbed me up the wrong way for some reason, and maybe he does that to others, including the players in the squad. When he was mentioned as a candidate for our job, I thought well, if he gets it, he will get my backing as I back all our managers and players, and will have an open mind.
So far it been a bit of a curates egg of performances, and the last two games couldn't have been more different. Wonderful entertainment against County, and Mike Newell levels of ineptitude yesterday.
So the question is- have we got a bullsh1tter who has blagged his way into the job and dazzled the owners with his spreadsheets and university degrees, or have we got a good coach who has ruffled a few feathers and will eventually prevail? I only hope it's the second option and have no reason to think otherwise yet, because we have played some great stuff at times.
I posted a link some weeks back to a Codalmighty article, which laid out how terrible our EFL record has been over the last 20 years and Poojah also brought up the same subject in his just back post yesterday. We have had umpteen managers and literally hundreds of players in that time, but the closest anyone has got us looking like we can compete in league 2 is PH last season and Slade 20 years ago.
So, I have to ask, is it going to take a complete change of philosophy and playing style to crack this particular nut and is Artell the man to finally drag us kicking and screaming into the 21st century? It may be that we have to dismantle everything, and try a new approach, which is going down like a sh1t sandwich at the moment with some fans, and it seems some of the players too, although I have no idea if tales of unrest are true.
Maybe this is what it is going to take to finally become an established league side pushing for promotion in the future, but it's going to be a bumpy ride along the way. I hope so, because our continued struggles are getting really tedious now.
I’m not always on the same page as you but that’s the point of a forum board but this is a good post and viewpoint. As long as we don’t get relegated I’m happy for Artell to rebuild the lego.
The game has moved on and despite periods of pragmatism brining us relative success under Hurst I’m not sure we have.
Look what 20 odd years of penny pinching gets you I guess?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
My inclination if I was Chairman, which I would never be, is to back DA, including the transfer market.
The alternative is too awful to consider
He's got to back him, this is it now swapping out at this stage would be absolute folly as whoever came in would only be able to bring in unattached players.
If it is true that certain players are bad apples which I can believe in fairness, how did Hurst get it wrong when he signed them? He's normally an excellent judge of character and values team spirit so why did he sign these players who are "bad apples"
Because we had a recruitment manager and it was all data led apparently.
Just wanna put it out there that a lost dressing room and drunk off a few players that have underperformed and deserve a few home truths are slightly different things.
Not doubting what your saying guys, just important to think about imo as we do hear ’lost the players’ a lot in football
Re him apparently losing the dressing room at Crewe, think someone mentioned it earlier. The club spoke to lots and lots of passed players and club officials - that’s not a secret they made it clear.
Therefore I doubt it’s true, or not exactly as described, as that would have come up.
Football is quite a close community and many know each other, would an ex player or ex club official come out and excrement on another manager or someone they worked with?
How many of our summer signings were because of the data led approach?
Eastwood - previously worked with Hurst. Cartwright - from Hull but is Grimsby born and bred. Mullarkey - we missed out on him last January when the HoR had been here 5 minutes. Rodgers - possibly. Conteh - I think Hurst admitted that the HoR was behind this signing. Andrews - just one of many random young lads that end up here in the hope of being any good. Eisa - we are the third club Hurst has had him at. Pyke - Hurst had worked with him before. Vernam - this is his third spell here, and we had been after him for a few transfer windows. Wilson - possibly a HoR find. Rose - whoever is responsible for signing him, well done as he is our only hope of staying up at the moment. Gnahoua - was at Shrewsbury with Hurst. Ainley - possibly a HoR recommendation.
A lot of our summer recruitment has played for Hurst before. I don't think a data-led approach is to blame at all, as I don't think a lot of our signings were on the back of any underlying data.
Because we had a recruitment manager and it was all data led apparently.
Maybe Hurst’s mistake was letting data replace miles on the road burning rubber watching players and how they perform on a rainy Tuesday away at bum f*cl nowhere.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Macca, Danny Andrew, Shaun, Danny Collins, Jamie Osborne, Chris Clements (good when fit) Dis, Callum Dyson, Sam Jones (started well) Dom Vose ( the cameo king) even Andy Boyce & Zak Mills where better than we have now.
Defence better yes, Dis was in his twilight, the rest mostly worse or sicknotes.
How many of our summer signings were because of the data led approach?
Eastwood - previously worked with Hurst. Cartwright - from Hull but is Grimsby born and bred. Mullarkey - we missed out on him last January when the HoR had been here 5 minutes. Rodgers - possibly. Conteh - I think Hurst admitted that the HoR was behind this signing. Andrews - just one of many random young lads that end up here in the hope of being any good. Eisa - we are the third club Hurst has had him at. Pyke - Hurst had worked with him before. Vernam - this is his third spell here, and we had been after him for a few transfer windows. Wilson - possibly a HoR find. Rose - whoever is responsible for signing him, well done as he is our only hope of staying up at the moment. Gnahoua - was at Shrewsbury with Hurst. Ainley - possibly a HoR recommendation.
A lot of our summer recruitment has played for Hurst before. I don't think a data-led approach is to blame at all, as I don't think a lot of our signings were on the back of any underlying data.
Yeah at least half and possibly more are Hurst signings not data led signings.
Yeah at least half and possibly more are Hurst signings not data led signings.
Hurst was pre-data though so was a more traditional manager they had inherited along with the club. DA is their first chance at someone who buys into the process, obviously the "analytical science degree course" which has been added to his WIkipedia profile might have been one of the reason why he was identified as a target before we even spoke to him.
This is an interesting listen, it's a podcast with Omar Chaudhuri from Twenty First Group, who we employ. It was recorded before PH was sacked so gives quite a bit of insight into the approach we might have gone through, given we were working with them. Listening to it at the time I thought he could well be talking about teams like us.
Hurst was pre-data though so was a more traditional manager they had inherited along with the club. DA is their first chance at someone who buys into the process, obviously the "analytical science degree course" which has been added to his WIkipedia profile might have been one of the reason why he was identified as a target before we even spoke to him.
This is an interesting listen, it's a podcast with Omar Chaudhuri from Twenty First Group, who we employ. It was recorded before PH was sacked so gives quite a bit of insight into the approach we might have gone through, given we were working with them. Listening to it at the time I thought he could well be talking about teams like us.
I remember that the new owners approved the reappointment of Hurst but also remember JS saying that, when he was sacked, they were looking to take the club in a different direction.
It’s a big call in hindsight. We’ll see how it goes.
Football is quite a close community and many know each other, would an ex player or ex club official come out and excrement on another manager or someone they worked with?
It’s also full of people with egos, so yeah - probably.
Always puzzles me this… what’s the opposite to ‘data led’?
Ignoring facts and analysis?
As for Wilson - believe he was a Pearson find.
It doesn't matter. Life is not data. It is a mix of ability, luck, of circumstances and of being in the right place at the right time. Lots of players have looked dogs playing for us, yet went onto have great careers and vice versa.
Football like life is too complicated to reduce it to data. We are near the bottom of the 4th division and there are dozens and dozens of clubs who have greater data resources than we do, but only a small number are doing well.
It doesn't matter. Life is not data. It is a mix of ability, luck, of circumstances and of being in the right place at the right time. Lots of players have looked dogs playing for us, yet went onto have great careers and vice versa.
Football like life is too complicated to reduce it to data. We are near the bottom of the 4th division and there are dozens and dozens of clubs who have greater data resources than we do, but only a small number are doing well.
Let’s just pull the names out of a hat then - no point thinking about it.
Honestly this bashing of data is infuriating and getting pretty boring. I know it’s a newer approach to doing things in football but all the successful teams do it and if Town don’t try and keep up as best you can within our resources we get left behind. All the data led approach really means is thinking more about what you’re doing and using more available evidence. I don’t understand how this is suddenly the coming of the bloody Antichrist to some people on this forum.
Hurst was pre-data though so was a more traditional manager they had inherited along with the club. DA is their first chance at someone who buys into the process, obviously the "analytical science degree course" which has been added to his WIkipedia profile might have been one of the reason why he was identified as a target before we even spoke to him.
This is an interesting listen, it's a podcast with Omar Chaudhuri from Twenty First Group, who we employ. It was recorded before PH was sacked so gives quite a bit of insight into the approach we might have gone through, given we were working with them. Listening to it at the time I thought he could well be talking about teams like us.
Having listened to that podcast and thinking back to Stockwood and Petitts interviews it is clear they swallowed the manual.i am just not sure sports can be run from a manual . Where are the chapters on chemistry, passion instinct etc.
Lew's one man mission to destroy data and bring back good ol' hunch and guesswork.
Life is complicates yes. However reducing it to data and making decisions on what information is useful is essential.
It doesn't work. Football is real life and doesn't respond to data. If it was any good in football everybody would be top of the league and never make a bad signing.
Data only tells you the headline news; what about character, will to win, staying power, decisions under pressure?
What's more it is so often flawed, or misrepresented as can be seen in any data set on any subject you care to mention.
Bit like relying on a computer to find you a partner.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Let’s just pull the names out of a hat then - no point thinking about it.
Honestly this bashing of data is infuriating and getting pretty boring. I know it’s a newer approach to doing things in football but all the successful teams do it and if Town don’t try and keep up as best you can within our resources we get left behind. All the data led approach really means is thinking more about what you’re doing and using more available evidence. I don’t understand how this is suddenly the coming of the bloody Antichrist to some people on this forum.
It's not about pulling names out hats. It's about a common sense approach to what the team needs, provided by a decent manager who usually has years of experience as a player and manager.
It's not about pulling names out hats. It's about a common sense approach to what the team needs, provided by a decent manager who usually has years of experience as a player and manager.
Data doesn't reveal half of what is required.
Data ‘led’ not data and nothing else but data. Always room for the more nuanced and human element but the data gives you a lot of what you need to know.
Exactly. It looks a great match till you actually meet.
(Ignores the fact that many, many people meet their partners online and get married, have kids, etc etc etc).
Pretty much every area in a modern democracy uses data to help decide policy, laws etc etc. 'Common sense' comes into it as well, of course, but denying the value of data analysis simply isn't logical. Even in football.
Exactly. It looks a great match till you actually meet.
Is it? Do we sign a lot of players without meeting them? Checking they’re compatible, like the look of us etc etc after the data’s led us to have these conversations..
Let’s just pull the names out of a hat then - no point thinking about it.
Honestly this bashing of data is infuriating and getting pretty boring. I know it’s a newer approach to doing things in football but all the successful teams do it and if Town don’t try and keep up as best you can within our resources we get left behind. All the data led approach really means is thinking more about what you’re doing and using more available evidence. I don’t understand how this is suddenly the coming of the bloody Antichrist to some people on this forum.
All the successful teams might do it but if every team is doing it then so are the excrement ones.
So far our data led approach had got us to equal 3rd on points from the bottom of the Football League.
Frig knows how Alan Buckley managed to be successful by using the archaic method of sending out scouts and actually going to see players in action.
Is it? Do we sign a lot of players without meeting them? Checking they’re compatible, like the look of us etc etc after the data’s led us to have these conversations..
All the relegated clubs this season will be inundated with data. They will have it coming out of their ears.
All the PL teams have the best data money can buy but 3 will still go down. Lots of clubs in league 2 will have the data, the analysts and all will be convinced it is the way forward.
It isn't. What you need is a decent manager, a way of playing and enough money to attract the players.
I don't have an issue with using data as a recruitment tool. If you have a player you want with specific strengths it can help you draw up a shortlist and then watch videos and watch the most promising in person. A lot of the guys we sign though have played so few first-team games I doubt there is much data for them.
I also think in games using data to compare tactics (e.g. short corners or long corners, best free-kick takers) with the squad you have makes sense. This is specific to each team and depends on the squad.
Our problem is we're changing everything at once and decided the long-term plan has to take place immediately. We should have established a baseline with the players we had and gradually recruited, aiming to slowly improve the team. Every time we add or remove a player it changes the team dynamic so we need to regularly reevaluate and be prepared to change our strategy as our squad evolves.
We have unilaterally decided a high-possession game is the way to go (based upon the sentiment that it is the "Grimsby Way") and decided to transition to that overnight with the players we already have. As far as I can tell we have not attempted to decide if it is even feasible to acquire a squad which can play the way we want, it has been taken on faith that we can. Despite the constraint that many of the squad are contracted for 2-3 years (based upon the "old" long-term plan).
The small matter of avoiding relegation has been brushed aside ("I don't think we will go down") in the hurry to reach the moon tomorrow.
If it all ends in tears I don't think we can blame data because our entire approach largely bypasses data.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
I don't have an issue with using data as a recruitment tool. If you have a player you want with specific strengths it can help you draw up a shortlist and then watch videos and watch the most promising in person. A lot of the guys we sign though have played so few first-team games I doubt there is much data for them.
I also think in games using data to compare tactics (e.g. short corners or long corners, best free-kick takers) with the squad you have makes sense. This is specific to each team and depends on the squad.
Our problem is we're changing everything at once and decided the long-term plan has to take place immediately. We should have established a baseline with the players we had and gradually recruited, aiming to slowly improve the team. Every time we add or remove a player it changes the team dynamic so we need to regularly reevaluate and be prepared to change our strategy as our squad evolves.
We have unilaterally decided a high-possession game is the way to go (based upon the sentiment that it is the "Grimsby Way") and decided to transition to that overnight with the players we already have. As far as I can tell we have not attempted to decide if it is even feasible to acquire a squad which can play the way we want, it has been taken on faith that we can. Despite the constraint that many of the squad are contracted for 2-3 years (based upon the "old" long-term plan).
The small matter of avoiding relegation has been brushed aside ("I don't think we will go down") in the hurry to reach the moon tomorrow.
If it all ends in tears I don't think we can blame data because our entire approach largely bypasses data.
We need to guarantee points for survival (sic) first, and once achieved, then let’s put the next stage into motion and seeing how we best adapt to what we are fundamentally trying to achieve and create this gameplay/style that JS, AP and DA want us to play.
As fans, of course we want to see free flowing attacking football and knocking goals in left right and centre, but unfortunately we are nowhere near that position and haven’t been for 20+ years. We were, possibly still are, a club that is in the doldrums and we have that awful feeling of lightning striking for the 3rd time and the trap door opening to non-league football yet again. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
I personally trust in DA, and believe that the performances and results will come. But, the players have to have confidence and belief in him and his ideas.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that we were losing almost every week before he came in and tried to change it. I'm not including the draws with sutton or forest green in that as they were hardly anything to get excited about.
Yesterday was one of the worst performances for a very long time though, can see why DA wasn't very talkative.
Some big games coming up in the next month or so. We could do with Donny beating Sutton but seems unlikely. Might have to beat a couple of the teams around us ourselves.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that we were losing almost every week before he came in and tried to change it. I'm not including the draws with sutton or forest green in that as they were hardly anything to get excited about.
Yesterday was one of the worst performances for a very long time though, can see why DA wasn't very talkative.
Some big games coming up in the next month or so. We could do with Donny beating Sutton but seems unlikely. Might have to beat a couple of the teams around us ourselves.
Colchester , Donny , Sutton and FG all to come within the next 6 weeks I think it's fair to say that will decide whether we are in the mix to get relegated - win and draw a couple of those and it should be enough to be relatively close to safety - anything from the next 2 games is a bonus IMO .
We need to guarantee points for survival (sic) first, and once achieved, then let’s put the next stage into motion and seeing how we best adapt to what we are fundamentally trying to achieve and create this gameplay/style that JS, AP and DA want us to play.
As fans, of course we want to see free flowing attacking football and knocking goals in left right and centre, but unfortunately we are nowhere near that position and haven’t been for 20+ years. We were, possibly still are, a club that is in the doldrums and we have that awful feeling of lightning striking for the 3rd time and the trap door opening to non-league football yet again. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
I personally trust in DA, and believe that the performances and results will come. But, the players have to have confidence and belief in him and his ideas.
Trusting in DA from afar mate .Saturday had alarm bells ringing and most seasoned watchers are worried and rightly so.Weve been here before those players have either downed tools OR have no clue what they are supposed to be doing on the pitch. Of course it could just be a blip and I'm praying 🙏 that's the case.They had 2 weeks to work on defending as a team and they'll have known it was unlikely Conteh would be playing so in effect one change required to the team that played Notts. Now if with 2 weeks preparation you end up with 90 minutes like that were deep in trouble because Tranmere sat one place above us.Stockport and Wrexham will come here and destroy this team it's probably wise to stick a few quid on both hitting 5 or more goals.
Frig knows how Alan Buckley managed to be successful by using the archaic method of sending out scouts and actually going to see players in action.
He probably looked at the data available to him at the time mate. I want a striker, who’s scoring goals that I can afford - let’s scout them. It won’t be any different really to the “data led approach” being decried now, apart from we have a specific analyst and look at more data points. Of course you still send scouts but you need to whittle down who you’re going to look at & that’s where the data comes in.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that we were losing almost every week before he came in and tried to change it. I'm not including the draws with sutton or forest green in that as they were hardly anything to get excited about..
Write down all the games we were spanked in and most of them will fall in the DA era. We had many of the hardest games at the start of the season but when we lost it was usually by a narrow margin. The run of defeats that ended with PH being sacked were all narrow losses. The caretaker team tweaked the PH approach and my gut feel is we'd have more points now than we do, and probably a happier dressing room, had we continued down that route. Of course we will never know and they certainly spent a lot of time looking at DA even though he was the first person on the list.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
The RH interview is a weird one, but I wouldn't say that Artell is at fault for that. Matt Dean asked some very odd questions, which almost seemed like he was trying to rile him up. Essentially asked him to tear into Glennon in particular, Artell obviously refused, then asked again. Bizarre.
Agreed that Dean seemed to be going for Glennon. I think the reaction to the interview in geneal is a bit of a case of a mountain being made out of a molehill as well though. I don't think Artell answered anything badly. He admitted fault lies with both himself and the players. Fairly standard defeat interviews for me.
Gosh. Knee jerk. I supported Hurst to the end and I'm the one to chip in?
Previously, Mullarkey got shredded, and we lost our DM. He had either Green or Clifton to go in at DM. He chose Harry on the wing to offer cover for Mullarkey who certainly needs it. Both choices were correct IMHO. Gav has about 4/5 matches I've seen highlights with him casually strolling back and getting caught out with goals scored. He's good going forward, but he's battling against Andrews, Hunt and Wood. Wood needs a shot and Andrews pass rate is a lot better than Holahan if I remember correctly.
Result sucks, but choices are limited. I would have personally gone with Maher over Rodgers but would it have made a difference?
We need a RB to replace Efete, and that isn't helping. We need a LB to offer competition for Glennon. We don't really have that. None of these are Artel's fault, it is the same hand anyone would play with and it isn't easy.
He started well and everyone assumed this was an easy job. Nope. We have serious squad problems and you only have super glue to patch up in Jan.
I get it's easy to complain and blame, but that's just for coping. It doesn't solved our problems.
Good post. I get the knee jerk reaction though and I think we're in more trouble than we all thought we would be.
The full backs are obviously getting a lot of attention and rightly so as we're getting spanked down the flanks consistently.
The midfield though is as big a problem for me. Artell talked about people not knowing their roles and he must be talking at least partly of the midfield here as they looked clueless again on Saturday. All of our midfielders either excel at nothing or just one thing. The only one we had with multiple strings to their bow was Conteh. Switching him out for Green and expecting to continue playing with the same system is completely on Artell (if that was even the plan, I'm not sure if it was as it was such a horrible blob of a system on Saturday it was impossible to tell), however discounting that element of responsibility, it's hard to see anything other than a few curtain calls for Green before his time with us is inevitably over. His ceiling is clearly National League level, too limited a player in League Two. Tranmere bullied us in the middle of the park on Saturday and if that's being allowed to happen, just what is he bringing to the table?
Then we've got Alex Hunt...have I missed something here, is he injured? I don't remember hearing that but he's disappeared off the radar again despite Artell saying he would have a pivotal role going forward. That aside, he fluctuates between the sublime (MK Dons and Crewe matches) and the utterly forgettable (every other performance he's put in under Artell). The benefits of having an in form Hunt in the side are massive but he's a risky pick every time as you just don't know if he's gonna be in the match.
Holohan is clearly not fancied by Artell despite being our most experienced midfielder. He's far from the perfect midfielder at this level and I think his time here is also probably done but his lack of game time under Artell when stacked up against the other options is unfathomable really.
The Clifton chat has been done to death on here umpteen times so let's not dwell on that, I think despite what your opinion is on him we can all agree that his versatility is a big draw and that given the current state of midfield options, he is a nailed on starter.
Jamie Andrews...he's just a but meh, isn't he? Has little spells of matches when he looks alright but then you forget he's on the pitch for 20 minutes until he gives the ball away. He reminds me a bit of someone like Ben Burgess when we brought him in a few seasons ago. He's in the team, but I'm not really sure what his role is.
Early days for Harry Wood, so a bit harsh to pass judgement on him after that performance.
All in all, it's an uninspiring selection of midfielders, especially when you consider that three of these six are playing every week.
Regarding Artell Out, it's definitely not something that should even be considered right now. However, if the unthinkable were to happen and we went down to the NL again then he has to go as there's no way we have the resources to recruit the players he'd want to play his style of football down there.
Then we've got Alex Hunt...have I missed something here, is he injured? I don't remember hearing that but he's disappeared off the radar again despite Artell saying he would have a pivotal role going forward. That aside, he fluctuates between the sublime (MK Dons and Crewe matches) and the utterly forgettable (every other performance he's put in under Artell). The benefits of having an in form Hunt in the side are massive but he's a risky pick every time as you just don't know if he's gonna be in the match.
Rumour mill would have you believe he's been told he can go. Which if true wouldn't be surprising, if it is disappointing. Think he had the promise to be a very good player - he still might.
I personally think Artells comments regards him were bang on though. Wasn't it something like "why aren't you playing more you could be one of the best players here?" I always interpreted it not to be a dig at the previous management but "why aren't you applying yourself more". Since DA's been here we've seen him revert to type.
Trusting in DA from afar mate .Saturday had alarm bells ringing and most seasoned watchers are worried and rightly so.Weve been here before those players have either downed tools OR have no clue what they are supposed to be doing on the pitch. Of course it could just be a blip and I'm praying 🙏 that's the case.They had 2 weeks to work on defending as a team and they'll have known it was unlikely Conteh would be playing so in effect one change required to the team that played Notts. Now if with 2 weeks preparation you end up with 90 minutes like that were deep in trouble because Tranmere sat one place above us.Stockport and Wrexham will come here and destroy this team it's probably wise to stick a few quid on both hitting 5 or more goals.
Not nit-picking, but Tranmere have improved a lot. 3rd best team in terms of points accrued over 10 games, 4th best home form in the league over 10 games. Won 3 of their last 4 away games against Salford, Harrogate and us.
Not nit-picking, but Tranmere have improved a lot. 3rd best team in terms of points accrued over 10 games, 4th best home form in the league over 10 games. Won 3 of their last 4 away games against Salford, Harrogate and us.
I accept that Nelly and put that down to Adkins who would have been a popular shout here.
How anyone could want our manager out this quick needs their head testing.
Watching Saturday our problem was no link up play between defence and midfield which after selling conteh the day before u can understand why they didn’t know what to do.
Yes it wasn’t pretty but it is clear what is required and maybe his hands have been tied in having to get rid of players first.
This week I wouldn’t want his job either as he will have to take some gambles as he won’t get in his 1st choice players all the time.
I accept that Nelly and put that down to Adkins who would have been a popular shout here.
Yeah, good match for them with him being his home-town club and having started his professional career with Tranmere. I didn't realise he was already there as Technical Director before they ditched the previous manager.
It's not about pulling names out hats. It's about a common sense approach to what the team needs, provided by a decent manager who usually has years of experience as a player and manager.
Data doesn't reveal half of what is required.
So that's why just about every team in the football league and premiership hire data analysts then?
So to summarise this thread we are excrement because: We have the wrong players for the system Some players have had a paddy Data Artell is a fraud Glennon/Efete/Rodgers/Amos
Have I missed anything?
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
So to summarise this thread we are excrement because: We have the wrong players for the system Some players have had a paddy Data Artell is a fraud Glennon/Efete/Rodgers/Amos
Have I missed anything?
You missed that our entire midfield isn’t fit for purpose.
So to summarise this thread we are excrement because: We have the wrong players for the system Some players have had a paddy Data Artell is a fraud Glennon/Efete/Rodgers/Amos
Have I missed anything?
Mullarkey, cant have a defence at fault without naming him
So that's why just about every team in the football league and premiership hire data analysts then?
Yes but give them all the same data and every one of them will come to a different conclusion.
Lots of clubs even in our league will be throwing more resources at it than we can, but still clubs change managers more regularly than socks, still sign players that don't fit, still struggle and despite having sometimes multiple data analysts some will be relegated.
The first two were for League Two, I just didn't put in the titles. Also for the final season, he wasn't in charge for the last 4 games, so I've taken that into account.
I also did them years ago for the Messiah - Alan Buckley, Brian Laws, Lenny Lawrence, Paul Groves, Graham Rodger, Mike Scumbag Newell, Neil Woods, Scott and Hurst for total seasons not individual except the Messiah.
Yes but give them all the same data and every one of them will come to a different conclusion.
Lots of clubs even in our league will be throwing more resources at it than we can, but still clubs change managers more regularly than socks, still sign players that don't fit, still struggle and despite having sometimes multiple data analysts some will be relegated.
And there we have it. Data is important, but the real skill is in interpreting it.
If you want to know what a player is like just go watch him for 5/6 games like they used to.. At this rate AI and computers will be picking players and picking the team . Its getting stupid
If you want to know what a player is like just go watch him for 5/6 games like they used to.. At this rate AI and computers will be picking players and picking the team . Its getting stupid
They do still scout players, data analysis is used to identify players that are worth scouting, saves people covering hundreds of miles watching individuals that were recommended Dave down the old Dog n Duck after 10 pints of guiness
Been told hunt is not injured he been told to find another club , bizzare if true
I mean I don't think it's bizarre at all, we know he's talented but clearly has problems with applying himself. It's not just Artell that's dropped him now, he was anonymous under the man that paid a fee for him. That's a big red flag.
Been told hunt is not injured he been told to find another club , bizzare if true
Don't think it is. He has the potential but has never really pushed on. Artell was quite clear he thought he had the ability when he came in - he's obviously seen that he cannot apply it. Which is what I think his comments when he arrived were aimed at - wasn't it something along the lines of "why aren't you playing more?"
Big few days coming up. Clearly Artell wants to play his way and presumably made this clear in his interview. Current squad lacks the ability to play this way, also sounds like a number of capable players are free to leave.
We need to either back him with significant funds to bring the players required to play his way and keep us up or get rid and play to the existing squads strengths (whatever they are) and bring in a few solid players to try and grind out enough results to stay up and start again next season.
Neither option will be cheap but neither will relegation. Looking at the clubs in the relegation fight most of them will have cash to spend and I suspect their results will start to improve too.
I'm far from impressed with Hunt, given his propensity to needlessly give the ball away multiple times a game. However, after that midfield performance on Saturday, I'd throw him in there as I don't think he could do any worse than the players who were selected on the day!
I'm far from impressed with Hunt, given his propensity to needlessly give the ball away multiple times a game. However, after that midfield performance on Saturday, I'd throw him in there as I don't think he could do any worse than the players who were selected on the day!
I think we were playing 4-2-3-1 on Saturday and Harry, Eisa and Rose were the three of the front six who played against Crewe, the other three in that game were Hunt, Gnahoua and Conteh - one has gone and the other two haven't been seen for weeks. Holohan doesn't get a look in either. Instead we get Andrews who has had possibly one decent game, Wood who can best be described as 'inexperienced' and Green who is 'limited' (being very polite).
As I understand, we are trying to play possession based football so you need players who can pass it and on Saturday we seemed to pick a team that can't.
I'm far from impressed with Hunt, given his propensity to needlessly give the ball away multiple times a game. However, after that midfield performance on Saturday, I'd throw him in there as I don't think he could do any worse than the players who were selected on the day!
Got to agree re Hunt. He has the ability to play killer balls and be creative but his inability to make the simple passes at times from his own half has given away a lot of goals, which is mad as he’s not even played much.
Got to agree re Hunt. He has the ability to play killer balls and be creative but his inability to make the simple passes at times from his own half has given away a lot of goals, which is mad as he’s not even played much.
I'd love to know about all these goals he's given away because, other than one at Notts County, I can't remember any!
The frustrating thing about Hunt for me is that he's obviously got a good touch and can pick a pass. It's the concentration levels which are the problem. When he gives the ball away, it tends to be a simple under-hit or over-hit pass of the sort which he really shouldn't be messing up, given his general ability. Players such as Green aren't great technically and you can understand why they make such errors, but 'ball players' shouldn't have the same excuse.
Wood was pretty awful on Saturday (yes, I know he's an inexperienced young lad), so if Hunt was fit, I'd have him playing instead of Wood.
I'm afraid Hunt goes completely missing against any physical team - he's only ever looked good against 'footballing' teams or end of season games when players are 'on the beach'
I'm far from impressed with Hunt, given his propensity to needlessly give the ball away multiple times a game. However, after that midfield performance on Saturday, I'd throw him in there as I don't think he could do any worse than the players who were selected on the day!
The point is, he was brought in under Hurst and was a starter in the Foxhunt midifield. He managed to change the mind of Hurst despite doing ok on match day. Artell was glowing in his praise of him, and Hunt has managed to change his mind without doing much wrong on the pitch.
I can only conclude, and this is purely speculation (as I have no idea), that he isn't applying himself in training. If that is true, and you have a player that works 1 day a week match day, then phones it in in training most day (which we don't see), do you reward them by putting them on the pitch? What does that say to every single squad player there and ever young player? "if you have talent, you can half behind it and get in the match squad because we have no other option". Will that really create a team of players working their balderdash off to get in the starting 11, and dedicate themselves to taking on what's being explained to them?
I really hope I'm wrong, and I hope he has a good career here or elsewhere, but as time goes it, it's becoming clear to me that he is not and will not ever be consistently good enough to justify a spot in our team without something changing significantly. He's on a wage and we need people pulling in the same direction. If he ain't, we can put those wages elsewhere.
Hunt should play every game. A successful performance rate of 1-in-3 will keep us up. Right now, we are completely lacking his skill levels.
Unpredictability is better than knowing beforehand that you’re gonna lose because the team is missing any guile. Hunt can give us that extra. Not every game, but more often than never. That might just be good enough.
Hunt should play every game. A successful performance rate of 1-in-3 will keep us up. Right now, we are completely lacking his skill levels.
Unpredictability is better than knowing beforehand that you’re gonna lose because the team is missing any guile. Hunt can give us that extra. Not every game, but more often than never. That might just be good enough.
The problem is taking that 33%, and then everyone else drops their level in training because no one really has to try anymore to get in the team. You might be losing 10% from everyone else. You ever had a job where you work your balderdash off and someone sucks up to the boss, half asses it and gets promotions and opportunities? In those situations, does it motivate you to work harder knowing that no matter what you put in, the deck is stacked against you and it isn't going to pay off?
The problem is taking that 33%, and then everyone else drops their level in training because no one really has to try anymore to get in the team. You might be losing 10% from everyone else.
So to summarise this thread we are excrement because: We have the wrong players for the system Some players have had a paddy Data Artell is a fraud Glennon/Efete/Rodgers/Amos
The point is, he was brought in under Hurst and was a starter in the Foxhunt midifield. He managed to change the mind of Hurst despite doing ok on match day. Artell was glowing in his praise of him, and Hunt has managed to change his mind without doing much wrong on the pitch.
I can only conclude, and this is purely speculation (as I have no idea), that he isn't applying himself in training. If that is true, and you have a player that works 1 day a week match day, then phones it in in training most day (which we don't see), do you reward them by putting them on the pitch? What does that say to every single squad player there and ever young player? "if you have talent, you can half behind it and get in the match squad because we have no other option". Will that really create a team of players working their balderdash off to get in the starting 11, and dedicate themselves to taking on what's being explained to them?
I really hope I'm wrong, and I hope he has a good career here or elsewhere, but as time goes it, it's becoming clear to me that he is not and will not ever be consistently good enough to justify a spot in our team without something changing significantly. He's on a wage and we need people pulling in the same direction. If he ain't, we can put those wages elsewhere.
I feel like to Hunt have any chance he needed Conteh (or a conteh type ) to give him the ball in better areas than receiving it in front of the back 4 . let's be a little bit balanced - his performance at MK dons playing between the lines was superb , and one piece of skill that took two of their men out the game was light years ahead of anyone on the pitch or at this level .
It's a shame he doesn't seem to be able to do that or get in the game against the more physical teams as it just seems he's too small and lightweight to influence against the bigger units in league 2 and gives the ball away in bad areas under pressure when teams press him hard .
There's a player there but if what's said is true and Artell doesn't fancy him it's even more telling than Hurst not playing him as he's one of the few you can count on 1 hand that's an 'Artell type' player.
Whatever the situation is with Hunt, I hope he only missed out on Saturday through injury, because if those two inexperienced and largely ineffective pair were picked ahead of him on merit, then we are in deep sh1t. How we ended up with two loan players with a handful of league games between them as the heart of our midfield is criminal at this stage of the season. No-one in midfield was showing for the ball and Tranmere pinned us in all game, with no player having the skill or nous to receive the ball under pressure. Hunt would have done a far better job of it than either of those two did.
I've been fairly laid back about our league position until Saturday, but that was worryingly reminiscent of some dark days under Newell and Slade to name just two of the crap managers we have had in recent times.
We need some experience and league nous in there, but I'm looking at the squad and not seeing much. Even Holohan hasn't got that many league games to his credit. Neither has Hunt to be fair, but Wood and Andrews are babies in terms of league 2 football, and first team football in general.
Without checking, I reckon that Wood, Andrews, Green, Holahan and Hunt have less combined games in the league than Harry Clifton, and that is a scary thought.
Without checking, I reckon that Wood, Andrews, Green, Holahan and Hunt have less combined games in the league than Harry Clifton, and that is a scary thought.
You can't post something like that and not expect someone to check the numbers...
Assuming Wikipedia is correct and that I can add up, at the start of the season Harry had 145 league games under his belt, while the rest (Wood 11, Andrews 0, Green 33, Holohan 78, Hunt 42) had a combined 164. But it's close enough that I take your point!
Fair bit of talk around that Hunt was told he's free to go. Absolutely no idea if there's any truth in that at all.
But it would definitely raise some eyebrows if that was the case. Impressed in Artell's first few games, to the point he was described as 'pivotal' going forward. Wasn't alone in not doing anything against Harrogate, got injured as a sub in Mansfield defeat and then came on against Walsall when the game was already lost.
No issue with Artell, or any manager for that matter, making opinions on players and acting on poor performances. But if Hunt's disappointing performance against Harrogate is the barometer for who is in his plans or not, then that's not a standard many are meeting at the minute.
Really hope it is that Hunt is just out with injury because that midfield made me feel ill on Saturday. Comfortable with his tendency to give it away, because at least he can do something at the other end of the pitch. Which is far better than giving it away regardless and offering nothing at the other end.
Fair bit of talk around that Hunt was told he's free to go. Absolutely no idea if there's any truth in that at all.
But it would definitely raise some eyebrows if that was the case. Impressed in Artell's first few games, to the point he was described as 'pivotal' going forward. Wasn't alone in not doing anything against Harrogate, got injured as a sub in Mansfield defeat and then came on against Walsall when the game was already lost.
No issue with Artell, or any manager for that matter, making opinions on players and acting on poor performances. But if Hunt's disappointing performance against Harrogate is the barometer for who is in his plans or not, then that's not a standard many are meeting at the minute.
Really hope it is that Hunt is just out with injury because that midfield made me feel ill on Saturday. Comfortable with his tendency to give it away, because at least he can do something at the other end of the pitch. Which is far better than giving it away regardless and offering nothing at the other end.
Have you ever thought that theres more to it.... I have said previously on this forum that Hunt has shown nothing to create the hoo hah some of you seem to have about him.
He went to Oldham, Did nothing, We signed him here, the man who signed him, barely played him, Artell came in, he was brought on in the first game, didnt start ( and did well) but has again vanished. Maybe just Maybe, he isnt that good!
Have you ever thought that theres more to it.... I have said previously on this forum that Hunt has shown nothing to create the hoo hah some of you seem to have about him.
He went to Oldham, Did nothing, We signed him here, the man who signed him, barely played him, Artell came in, he was brought on in the first game, didnt start ( and did well) but has again vanished. Maybe just Maybe, he isnt that good!Here we go the hunt haters back
Its not about haring Hunt is it?..there's a common denominator in this discussion, and its not the 5 managers he's played under. Hunt was dubbed "The Sheffield Pirlo" by the SW fans before he came on loan, yet here we are , and he's dropped again!.. The kids got ability, but I'm suspecting he's got a chip on his shoulders, and once dropped sees his bottom too easy.
Fair bit of talk around that Hunt was told he's free to go. Absolutely no idea if there's any truth in that at all.
But it would definitely raise some eyebrows if that was the case. Impressed in Artell's first few games, to the point he was described as 'pivotal' going forward. Wasn't alone in not doing anything against Harrogate, got injured as a sub in Mansfield defeat and then came on against Walsall when the game was already lost.
No issue with Artell, or any manager for that matter, making opinions on players and acting on poor performances. But if Hunt's disappointing performance against Harrogate is the barometer for who is in his plans or not, then that's not a standard many are meeting at the minute.
Really hope it is that Hunt is just out with injury because that midfield made me feel ill on Saturday. Comfortable with his tendency to give it away, because at least he can do something at the other end of the pitch. Which is far better than giving it away regardless and offering nothing at the other end.
Sums it up for me. If Saturday's midfield was picked on merit, I'm starting to mistrust my eyesight because, to a man, they were woeful.
Yes but give them all the same data and every one of them will come to a different conclusion.
Lots of clubs even in our league will be throwing more resources at it than we can, but still clubs change managers more regularly than socks, still sign players that don't fit, still struggle and despite having sometimes multiple data analysts some will be relegated.
One thing I will say for a fact is, The changing room hasn't been lost, they are just as frustrated as us....
Frustrated with what? That our defenders to a man can’t do the basics of defending? That our midfield is incapable of receiving and playing the ball to feet consistently?
Wonder if its the players that have been told there surplus to requirments.
I believe that would be the case, stirring the pot because they don't like what they've been told, maybe some have also bee told some home truths and have sort their dummies out, who knows eh.
Posting about it on twitter off the back of one post on here just fuels something that probably isn’t even there. It helps absolutely nobody and only helps to unsettle the whole club and any players reading it.
We get called great fans for turning up in big numbers but we really are some of the worst fans in the world at times. The drivel I’ve seen in the past couple of days is unbearable to read.
Frustrated with what? That our defenders to a man can’t do the basics of defending? That our midfield is incapable of receiving and playing the ball to feet consistently?
If you was having a bad time at work personally and messing up, would you get frustrated and want to sort it? Footballers are no different, they are all frustrated and want to sort it.
my point is the best two games we played under artell at mk done & crewe at home hunt played well altho bit part at mk , i do get he is inconsistant but surely if we are trying to play he is a better option than most
Funnily enough, the rumours ripping around is that HC is struggling to get a grip of Artells instructions, personally I think its all bollox and somebodies said something to someone, probably about struggling to adapt to a completely different way of playing, Chinese whispers have started and before you know there's a revolt and Artells losf the dressing room..
my point is the best two games we played under artell at mk done & crewe at home hunt played well altho bit part at mk , i do get he is inconsistant but surely if we are trying to play he is a better option than most
He's got the attributes to be the perfect Artell player. If Artell isn't picking him, there must be good reason...
He's got the attributes to be the perfect Artell player. If Artell isn't picking him, there must be good reason...
The reason is that he’s injured, i’m not his biggest fan but he was taken off against Mansfield due to being injured and I suspect that could still be the case.
Posting about it on twitter off the back of one post on here just fuels something that probably isn’t even there. It helps absolutely nobody and only helps to unsettle the whole club and any players reading it.
We get called great fans for turning up in big numbers but we really are some of the worst fans in the world at times. The drivel I’ve seen in the past couple of days is unbearable to read.
Spot on
Football makes irrational fools of most of us, especially when things aren't going well.
The hormones are flying around and this forum is now at nuclear level curtain twitching gossip mode and no amount of snickers will slow it down.
Mods need to edit the swear filter for the phrase IF IT'S TRUE and replace it with HERE'S SOME OLD balderdash
I am very worried about what is happening on the pitch but gossiping about a speculation on a rumour is as daft as it comes
One thing I will say for a fact is, The changing room hasn't been lost, they are just as frustrated as us....
The dressing room is lost? Players are unhappy with DA and some are 'rebelling'? So maybe we should turn the spotlight onto Hurst and ask what he did to lose the dressing room and make them unhappy after his 'FA Cup heroes' lost 8 of his final 10 games in charge.
The reason is that he’s injured, i’m not his biggest fan but he was taken off against Mansfield due to being injured and I suspect that could still be the case.
He is not injured just not in managers plans but hey ho it happens , he been told to find a club along with a few others so not alone
This thread is peak shite and hysteria. And people were having a pop at Stockwood for not cruising the fishy for the answers.
I guess when the very real threat of relegation is staring us in the face again and we seem to have an utterly demotivated and underperforming squad, supporters are going to be trying to understand the reasons and there are going to be rumours no matter how wild. What bothers me is how counter productive it is.. the players must read these forums. Criticism is never going to be a good motivator and a lot of them are young lads.. it must get to some of them I am sure.
It’s all well and good telling players they can find pastures anew but where are the replacements coming from seems to be a major problem apart from untried kids
Unfortunately with social media now you get this at all clubs
It's a 24/7 drama .
Look at Bristol Rovers last week their forum went potty the club went from finished to winning the league in 24 hours with the owner going from hung ,drawn and quartered to the best thing since slice bread after signing Conteh .
I don't buy Artell has lost the dressing room in 6 weeks.
I think someone is sh*t stirring , probably one of those that enjoys the drama , when we are doing badly + abusing all and sundry from 3pm to 5pm every Saturday .
I have got to add - some on that 'X' who should know better have added fuel to the fire , poor form . Really poor .It may well be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face ; unless they have 100% reliable source for all this of course.
This thread is peak shite and hysteria. And people were having a pop at Stockwood for not cruising the fishy for the answers.
Not sure what you mean by this. Where else can you watch an enthralling disagreement unfold between two adult men going by the names of FishySmithy and fishcake63?
This thread is peak shite and hysteria. And people were having a pop at Stockwood for not cruising the fishy for the answers.
I have been on the Fishy for many years and I would rank this as the worst thread ever and the competition has been stiff. 10 or so games in with a poor squad and some blubbering about it. We need 6/7 wins to stay up and as a fan base that's what we must strive for. DA has made some tactical errors for sure but individual errors have killed us. I have never seen so many defensive errors in my time supporting town. We were rubbish on Saturday but the goals were gifts, we self destruct in most games. DA has a lack of talent and leadership at his disposal. The only defensive leader we had was Waterfall but he was limited at this level. I hope he is brilliant at Hartlepool. This is no time for war and I hope DA silences the doubters and even if he doesn't he has not had long enough for this crap. UTM
You’re focusing on the wrong bit. It’s the what rather than the who that’s important.
That there’s any element of rebellion in the dressing room is a cause for concern, and to be honest you can see it play out on the pitch in front our eyes with the decision-making. You’re incorrect to say there isn’t.
Artell begrudgingly admitted (in a polite way) post-match that there are players not listening or hearing him which Matt Dean picked up on.
You’re focusing on the wrong bit. It’s the what rather than the who that’s important.
That there’s any element of rebellion in the dressing room is a cause for concern, and to be honest you can see it play out on the pitch in front our eyes with the decision-making. You’re incorrect to say there isn’t.
Artell begrudgingly admitted (in a polite way) post-match that there are players not listening or hearing him which Matt Dean picked up on.
Just because the players are urine poor at decision making doesn't mean it's a rebellion. Go down to Bradley Pitches, there's players every Sunday that get told to go out and do things and don't do it. It's not because they're rebelling, it's because they just aren't capable or skilled enough to do it. We all have bad habits in life, imagine doing something every day for 6 months, or 2 years for a lot of these and trying to instantly change? It takes a lot longer than 9 weeks I can assure you of that. I've been trying to stop biting my finger nails all my life, never been successful.
I have been on the Fishy for many years and I would rank this as the worst thread ever and the competition has been stiff. 10 or so games in with a poor squad and some blubbering about it. We need 6/7 wins to stay up and as a fan base that's what we must strive for. DA has made some tactical errors for sure but individual errors have killed us. I have never seen so many defensive errors in my time supporting town. We were rubbish on Saturday but the goals were gifts, we self destruct in most games. DA has a lack of talent and leadership at his disposal. The only defensive leader we had was Waterfall but he was limited at this level. I hope he is brilliant at Hartlepool. This is no time for war and I hope DA silences the doubters and even if he doesn't he has not had long enough for this crap. UTM
Yeah I'd agree and I apologise for contributing which was basically a conversation with a good mate who gets plenty of snippets most of which end up being spot on. The effort and application I saw on Saturday was not a team playing there best for Manager,fans or teammates 6400 saw what I saw and eyes don't lie. Massive few days for DA he's got to stiffen that defence inject creativity into his midfield and support his loan striker. Meanwhile his team need to amass around 22 points in the remaining fixtures so roughly 6 wins 4 draws and that looks a tough ask.Grimsby not the only team with these issues so who knows maybe only another 15/16 points is needed?
WOW can't believe i have actually just read 32 pages of all that excrement
All this he said this, she said that, my source said so and so is utter dogs dangly's none of you know anything so please stop with this nonsense it's mind numbing
I'm amazed that nobody has pointed out how mentally weak and fragile our players seem to be. It's so easy to bully us off the ball. I look at Cartwrights face and body language during the game and it's frightening how down he looks,and he's not the only one. Danny rose is the only player I can see with any appetite for a scrap.
That there’s any element of rebellion in the dressing room is a cause for concern, and to be honest you can see it play out on the pitch in front our eyes with the decision-making. You’re incorrect to say there isn’t.
Artell begrudgingly admitted (in a polite way) post-match that there are players not listening or hearing him which Matt Dean picked up on.
Artell said the players didn't seem to be listening to instructions, he later clarified because he realised some fans would jump on that that he didn't mean they were bad lads and choosing not to listen, but their decision making was incorrect. He'd said have to ask them why they thought the decisions they took were the best ones so he can better communicate with them what was expected. He virtually spelled out what the problem was, after the initial answer. That he felt players were reverting to type. Did you actually watch the full interview with selective hearing or see some clip on twitter and latch on to drama?
With your analysis skills, you could get a job at the Grimsby Telegraph.
Before everyone gets even more hysterical & the ghouls make anymore unfounded rumours for people to poor more petrol on maybe it’s worth just stepping back a bit & consider the events of recent weeks and the need for people to stick together when it’s tough.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Sorry all, I've misplaced my reading specs so struggling to keep up with every cough and spit of this thread and can't for the life of me fathom why FishySmithy and Fishcake69 are getting so hot under the collar about whether Artell has given some of the players, but not others, a dressing gown? Or has Artell lost his dressing robe?
Either way, he can snap up a few more of these bobby-dazzlers from the club shop, should he need any extras, with a few clicks of a mouse.
I'm amazed that nobody has pointed out how mentally weak and fragile our players seem to be. It's so easy to bully us off the ball. I look at Cartwrights face and body language during the game and it's frightening how down he looks,and he's not the only one. Danny rose is the only player I can see with any appetite for a scrap.
I think everyone just needs to draw a line under all this nonsense , you are right - they are mentally fragile, at least at this moment in time
Some will look at the socials
Whatever happened to ATAW ? Leave the appraisals until season end Let's support the team
I have been on the Fishy for many years and I would rank this as the worst thread ever and the competition has been stiff. 10 or so games in with a poor squad and some blubbering about it. We need 6/7 wins to stay up and as a fan base that's what we must strive for. DA has made some tactical errors for sure but individual errors have killed us. I have never seen so many defensive errors in my time supporting town. We were rubbish on Saturday but the goals were gifts, we self destruct in most games. DA has a lack of talent and leadership at his disposal. The only defensive leader we had was Waterfall but he was limited at this level. I hope he is brilliant at Hartlepool. This is no time for war and I hope DA silences the doubters and even if he doesn't he has not had long enough for this crap. UTM
This is a bad thread but I’m pretty sure if I can add some politics to it, we’d have the mother of all spiteful fishy threads but that’s what happens when you go for B Corp status and serve delicious scotch eggs.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Yeah I'd agree and I apologise for contributing which was basically a conversation with a good mate who gets plenty of snippets most of which end up being spot on. The effort and application I saw on Saturday was not a team playing there best for Manager,fans or teammates 6400 saw what I saw and eyes don't lie. Massive few days for DA he's got to stiffen that defence inject creativity into his midfield and support his loan striker. Meanwhile his team need to amass around 22 points in the remaining fixtures so roughly 6 wins 4 draws and that looks a tough ask.Grimsby not the only team with these issues so who knows maybe only another 15/16 points is needed?
Of the last 5 (full) league 2 seasons played Points required for survival have been : 44,39,46,42,46 So between 39-46 points required you would have thought for safety ; between 11-17 points should do it , surely we are capable of 3 or 4 wins and/or a few draws ? we currently stand at 1PPG more than enough to preserve our league status .
Of the last 5 (full) league 2 seasons played Points required for survival have been : 44,39,46,42,46 So between 39-46 points required you would have thought for safety ; between 11-17 points should do it , surely we are capable of 3 or 4 wins and/or a few draws ? we currently stand at 1PPG more than enough to preserve our league status .
And the bottom 2 this season are even worse than normal. I can't see either of them getting much above 40 points, so surely we'll stay up.
But there's huge questions where all the money is going. The only football league experience we've got in the team is players that got recently relegated.
I thought the one in one out statement was a bluff, but I have heard there's no more money even with the Conteh sale. Hopefully balderdash, but it's not looking good
And the bottom 2 this season are even worse than normal. I can't see either of them getting much above 40 points, so surely we'll stay up.
But there's huge questions where all the money is going. The only football league experience we've got in the team is players that got recently relegated.
I thought the one in one out statement was a bluff, but I have heard there's no more money even with the Conteh sale. Hopefully balderdash, but it's not looking good
Sutton aren’t losing at the moment, they have improved form.
Oh, and we got lucky draws against both FGR and Sutton. Plus we lost to Doncaster. And Colchester.
Our games against that lot could make or break our chances. The gap is currently 8 points, but there are 54 points to play for. We need to be careful and get a couple of wins pronto, before that lot do.
I ran the calculator and was very ungenerous to us and we only got relegated by 2 points, 37 was the safety mark. The calc thinks Sutton will pick up quite a few points as they have a few winnable home games.
Can anyone see us winning 4 games between now and season end looking at the 3 recent home games .Without a few quality players in the next few days
We have to play Forest Green, Swindon, Bradford and Doncaster all at home, 4 teams that are in worse states than we are. Crawley away last game of the season in a likely game that'll mean 0 to them.
We have to play Forest Green, Swindon, Bradford and Doncaster all at home, 4 teams that are in worse states than we are. Crawley away last game of the season in a likely game that'll mean 0 to them.
So, I have to ask, is it going to take a complete change of philosophy and playing style to crack this particular nut and is Artell the man to finally drag us kicking and screaming into the 21st century? It may be that we have to dismantle everything, and try a new approach, which is going down like a sh1t sandwich at the moment with some fans, and it seems some of the players too, although I have no idea if tales of unrest are true.
Maybe this is what it is going to take to finally become an established league side pushing for promotion in the future, but it's going to be a bumpy ride along the way. I hope so, because our continued struggles are getting really tedious now.
I'm hoping that this is the case also; a wholesale change that will mean some very wide-of-the-mark performances whilst we build something fundamentally different which embeds our place in the league.
It's a gamble - like many, I thought it was time for a change from Hurst, although it has to be said, performances weren't particularly bad under Hurst even if we were having a bad run of results. Stockport away, other than the opening 10, was a good performance against a very good side and they won it on an offside goal from a non-foul given as a free kick. Similarly Doncaster away, the performance was not dire. It wasn't good enough, but it wasn't like what Saturday sounds like it was.
I don't think we'd have gone down under Hurst. Historically, even in his successful seasons, we've had rough patches. But it definitely wasn't clicking, and I think we would have lingered in an uninspiring lower-mid table positions, whilst serving up fairly dull matches and not getting the full potential out of the squad.
But I do wonder whether we've taken a big gamble: lower-table finish and uninspiring games are obviously unappealing, but it's more appealing than potentially risking a free-fall if the complete overhaul of approach doesn't go to plan.
Any talk of 'Artell out' is frankly, ridiculous. It would create more instability and would just create a chaotic environment and come across as incredibly rash. Of course the jury is still out on whether he's the right man to turn the tide over the long-term, but he needs a chance to try and do so.
Not to mention, that if Artell was out and we got a new boss in, we'd be paying the salaries of 3 managers at once and 1/2 assistants. Money that we need to invest in the squad, as the owners have already said, 1 out, 1 in, so would this take away from a salary for a new player we need?
Not to mention, that if Artell was out and we got a new boss in, we'd be paying the salaries of 3 managers at once and 1/2 assistants. Money that we need to invest in the squad, as the owners have already said, 1 out, 1 in, so would this take away from a salary for a new player we need?
This supposed lack of money is a massive worry for me and a huge handicap to the Club in terms of progress. Back to back record season ticket sales,the fa cup run and Mcatee and Conteh sales should be ample to cover what we look to have spent? Are we really skint and if so why,I could understand it when we were still paying Fenty off but why now?
Not to mention, that if Artell was out and we got a new boss in, we'd be paying the salaries of 3 managers at once and 1/2 assistants. Money that we need to invest in the squad, as the owners have already said, 1 out, 1 in, so would this take away from a salary for a new player we need?
We won't be paying PH anything now as he is now in employment. I'm sure someone said he was fully paid off however.
This supposed lack of money is a massive worry for me and a huge handicap to the Club in terms of progress. Back to back record season ticket sales,the fa cup run and Mcatee and Conteh sales should be ample to cover what we look to have spent? Are we really skint and if so why,I could understand it when we were still paying Fenty off but why now?
What lack of money? We have a fairly large squad, of which many you could imagine are on decent money. We have just paid a fee for a centre back on a three year deal and paid fees for several players in the summer.
It's probably not the same as your Wrexham's, Stockport's and County's because we recognise it has to be sustainable, but I honestly do not understand this 'lack of money' narrative that pops up every time there's an issue. That's just on the field aswell, there's plenty of investment off it aswell.
The one in one out comment makes complete sense. Firstly, don't advertise you don't care about costs and squad sizes and secondly if you're bringing player in it’s sensible to move the others out that they are replacing if they aren't required. Otherwise you're paying money for players that aren't playing and won't get a look in - which is just a massive waste. It's like buying a new car and deciding to keep your old one taxed and insured just for the fun of it - you'd sell it.
Have you ever thought that theres more to it.... I have said previously on this forum that Hunt has shown nothing to create the hoo hah some of you seem to have about him.
He went to Oldham, Did nothing, We signed him here, the man who signed him, barely played him, Artell came in, he was brought on in the first game, didnt start ( and did well) but has again vanished. Maybe just Maybe, he isnt that good!
Yes I have. I've also said that if Artell becomes the next manager to fail to get a tune out of him, then perhaps it's time to just accept he's going to be one of those that drifts out the game. But then I've also seen with my own eyes what he can do when he's utilised properly at this level (MK Dons away, Crewe at home).
Hurst didn't use him right. He got away with playing him in a holding midfield role in the Conference because the standard was low enough for him to shine in a position that isn't his.
Artell quickly identified where his strengths lie. Sheff Wed recognised him as a more attack minded midfielder and that's where he played for their age groups, right up to the first team. It's only Hurst that used him in that deep lying role, that didn't suit him at all. As for why he put him there, you would have to ask Hurst himself. If you get the opportunity maybe ask why he signed him to start with him only to then bemoan his lack of height, it's not like he shrunk four inches once he signed a permanent deal is it?
I think it's slightly harsh to judge anyone on their time at Oldham in that period, such was the basket case nature of the club. Plus we've long established not to judge anyone on a short spell at any club haven't we? McAtee at Scunny, Nolan at Lincoln....
Am I saying that Hunt is the second coming of the Messiah? No. I think he's got flaws in his game that he really needs to address if he's going to make it in the professional game. But I can't get my head round that he's not capable of offering something different to what that current midfield is offering. Those 4 on Saturday contributed to one of the weakest and uninspiring midfield displays I've seen in over 30 years of watching Town.
Same with Holohan. He's not perfect, but I like to think he would give more than the total sum of zero. With the now absence of Conteh, the midfield is in danger of looking incredibly meh, to use Artell's own phrase. Toilers toiling away to no avail. Hunt has something in his locker, as does Holohan. Andrews, Green, Clifton...hmm, not so sure.
The next 3 days are probably some of the most important in the clubs history,we need the owners to invest money to secure our future in the Football League. We will soon find out,if they are serious about being football club owners or just playing at it. Over to you Jason and Andrew.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
This supposed lack of money is a massive worry for me and a huge handicap to the Club in terms of progress. Back to back record season ticket sales,the fa cup run and Mcatee and Conteh sales should be ample to cover what we look to have spent? Are we really skint and if so why,I could understand it when we were still paying Fenty off but why now?
I think they're trying to run the club sustainably, rather than at a loss, and unfortunately, a lot of clubs don't.
We have also has significant outlay in terms of ground maintenance, training facilities etc. Ultimately that money is either spent on managers salaries, players salaries, transfer fees or other club costs.
I'm sure someone said the roofing work and other stuff at the ground needed £1m, and if that's so, that's a huge sum of money for a club at our level.
We won't be paying PH anything now as he is now in employment. I'm sure someone said he was fully paid off however.
Town had a contract. He could have sat back and got paid to play golf. If he was paid off in full, it doesn't mean we didn't have to pay, we just paid our obligations to him sooner. If we have agreed to pay him salary until x date, we owe him that money unless we strike up a deal to say we can pay upfront if you accept a bit less, but I cannot imagine it's that much less. Who doesn't want a holiday?
Unless town have a magic money tree, I'm assuming it came out of the company accounts, the same ones that covers salaries, transfer fees and ground costs, and it'll be same if we bump off another manager.
Town had a contract. He could have sat back and got paid to play gold. If he was paid off in full, it doesn't mean we didn't have to pay, we just paid our obligations to him sooner. If we have agreed to pay him salary until x date, we owe him that money unless we strike up a deal to say we can pay upfront if you accept a bit less, but I cannot imagine it's that much less. Who doesn't want a holiday?
Unless town have a magic money tree, I'm assuming it came out of the company accounts, the same ones that covers salaries, transfer fees and ground costs, and it'll be same if we bump off another manager.
I don’t know the details of PH contract, but it’s not unusual that payment stops once the manager gets another job in football.
I don’t know the details of PH contract, but it’s not unusual that payment stops once the manager gets another job in football.
Does that make sense to you? Paid to play golf, and if you accept working 6 days per week, you say goodbye to what you're owed? I'm assuming it's paid in lump sum to simplify the payroll, and hand over the p45 or whatever. Perhaps it's less because coach is going to get more money anyway, but I cannot imagine our obligations vanish. It would mean no manager would ever step down to a lower salary when out of work...
Town had a contract. He could have sat back and got paid to play gold. If he was paid off in full, it doesn't mean we didn't have to pay, we just paid our obligations to him sooner. If we have agreed to pay him salary until x date, we owe him that money unless we strike up a deal to say we can pay upfront if you accept a bit less, but I cannot imagine it's that much less. Who doesn't want a holiday?
Unless town have a magic money tree, I'm assuming it came out of the company accounts, the same ones that covers salaries, transfer fees and ground costs, and it'll be same if we bump off another manager.
If he didn't come to an arrangement on his contract then when he went to manage another club his contract with us ceases and we stop paying him. Alternatively if he has done a deal with us he is free to take that money and get another job in management. I don't know how much we would have had to pay him in such a deal but a fair way short of 100 percent or else why bother. It can still work out enormously beneficial for both parties as would be the case now he has another job.
Most likely scenario there was a full and final settlement . He gets a lump sum or deferred payments which is less then full value of remaining contract but is free to get another job and benefit from a new salary . Where the settlement is pitched is a matter for negotiation and on PH side would depend on how confident he would be off getting another job. Same for Doug as well don’t forget. Either way it will have cost us a fair bit and with JS dropping hints about his children’s inheritance the odds of disposing of Artell as well are slim short of total meltdown.
Most likely scenario there was a full and final settlement . He gets a lump sum or deferred payments which is less then full value of remaining contract but is free to get another job and benefit from a new salary . Where the settlement is pitched is a matter for negotiation and on PH side would depend on how confident he would be off getting another job. Same for Doug as well don’t forget. Either way it will have cost us a fair bit and with JS dropping hints about his children’s inheritance the odds of disposing of Artell as well are slim short of total meltdown.
Hopefully there is a performance-linked clause in the contract that means we don't have to compensate Artell if he takes us down.
Most likely scenario there was a full and final settlement . He gets a lump sum or deferred payments which is less then full value of remaining contract but is free to get another job and benefit from a new salary . Where the settlement is pitched is a matter for negotiation and on PH side would depend on how confident he would be off getting another job. Same for Doug as well don’t forget. Either way it will have cost us a fair bit and with JS dropping hints about his children’s inheritance the odds of disposing of Artell as well are slim short of total meltdown.
that's what I'm led to believe was the situation, and much as it pains me to say it , I agree with Herve
Town had a contract. He could have sat back and got paid to play gold. If he was paid off in full, it doesn't mean we didn't have to pay, we just paid our obligations to him sooner. If we have agreed to pay him salary until x date, we owe him that money unless we strike up a deal to say we can pay upfront if you accept a bit less, but I cannot imagine it's that much less. Who doesn't want a holiday?
Unless town have a magic money tree, I'm assuming it came out of the company accounts, the same ones that covers salaries, transfer fees and ground costs, and it'll be same if we bump off another manager.
It cost the club north of £500,000 to pay off Paul and Chris.
Most likely scenario there was a full and final settlement . He gets a lump sum or deferred payments which is less then full value of remaining contract but is free to get another job and benefit from a new salary . Where the settlement is pitched is a matter for negotiation and on PH side would depend on how confident he would be off getting another job. Same for Doug as well don’t forget. Either way it will have cost us a fair bit and with JS dropping hints about his children’s inheritance the odds of disposing of Artell as well are slim short of total meltdown.
He's had big gaps between jobs but took this one quite quickly. Read into that what you will but would suggest he wasn't on gardening leave.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
The next 3 days are probably some of the most important in the clubs history,we need the owners to invest money to secure our future in the Football League. We will soon find out,if they are serious about being football club owners or just playing at it. Over to you Jason and Andrew.
I can't say more than you. Jason did say that they want to improve each transfer window. Conteh has gone so some money should be there for improvement.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Seven and a half months between Ipswich and Scunthorpe. He goes from Championship for League Two.
11 months between Scunny and his second spell here. He goes from lower mid-table League Two to relegation threatened side who are, at that moment, a basketcase club.
3 months between Town and second spell at Shrews. He trades struggling League Two for a very congested lower mid-table League One.
Not many managers get the chance to upgrade following a sacking.
I think they're trying to run the club sustainably, rather than at a loss, and unfortunately, a lot of clubs don't.
We have also has significant outlay in terms of ground maintenance, training facilities etc. Ultimately that money is either spent on managers salaries, players salaries, transfer fees or other club costs.
I'm sure someone said the roofing work and other stuff at the ground needed £1m, and if that's so, that's a huge sum of money for a club at our level.
The roof and other items were ones that were kicked down the street by the previous owner. That job in particular was hidden from them too. His penny pinching is lingering round the club like a post kebab fart, still creating issues like we see today.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
The roof and other items were ones that were kicked down the street by the previous owner. That job in particular was hidden from them too. His penny pinching is lingering round the club like a post kebab fart, still creating issues like we see today.
I can taste this imagery. You should write children's stories.
The roof and other items were ones that were kicked down the street by the previous owner. That job in particular was hidden from them too. His penny pinching is lingering round the club like a post kebab fart, still creating issues like we see today.
Whatever the rights and wrongs and whether due diligence did its job the club’s fortunes are now quite squarely in Jason and Andrew’s hands. Watching ATAW I recall Jason speaking to the massed gathering at the victory parade stating promotion was just the start. Well I’m pretty sure relegation wasn’t part of any continuous improvement plan and given our current side they may need to dig deep to bring in the players we need to avoid the drop. Go down again and it will be the final straw for many fans and pretty unforgivable on the owners.
Whatever the rights and wrongs and whether due diligence did its job the club’s fortunes are now quite squarely in Jason and Andrew’s hands. Watching ATAW I recall Jason speaking to the massed gathering at the victory parade stating promotion was just the start. Well I’m pretty sure relegation wasn’t part of any continuous improvement plan and given our current side they may need to dig deep to bring in the players we need to avoid the drop. Go down again and it will be the final straw for many fans and pretty unforgivable on the owners.
A deafening silence from the owners,whether they accept it or not we are in a crisis{which could turn into an existential one}We need strong leadership ,this is where you show your mettle.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
A deafening silence from the owners,whether they accept it or not we are in a crisis{which could turn into an existential one}We need strong leadership ,this is where you show your mettle.
Spent a lot of driving time today thinking much the same.
All well and good when things are going well but I don’t think the current situation was in the 3/5/10 year plan.
A deafening silence from the owners,whether they accept it or not we are in a crisis{which could turn into an existential one}We need strong leadership ,this is where you show your mettle.
What do you want them to say? Do you want a drunk up post after a couple bottles of red telling us what great custodians they are and that without them we are copulated?
What do you want them to say? Do you want a drunk up post after a couple bottles of red telling us what great custodians they are and that without them we are copulated?
Just give us some idea how they are going to deal with current situation,it's called leadership.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
A deafening silence from the owners,whether they accept it or not we are in a crisis{which could turn into an existential one}We need strong leadership ,this is where you show your mettle.
Yes nothing says leadership like issuing a statement after a loss to say “this could turn into an existential crisis”.
Just give us some idea how they are going to deal with current situation,it's called leadership.
"We think it's silly that fans are having a sulk so soon over the new manager, and are obviously sticking by him. We would have avoided a statement as it's usually perceived as a kiss of death". It's pretty obvious what their sentiment is and I don't see why it needs to be spelled out for you. They'll be talking to the manager about transfer plans etc. and not panicking fans because their focus is and should be what is done right now...
Leadership is also doing what you feel is right, and not what folks on social media are demanding they do. It would be pretty weak leadership to just be responding to this. A waste of time.
Just give us some idea how they are going to deal with current situation,it's called leadership.
There's nothing they can say that will go down well. They're not putting any more money in, so it'd just be sound bites and jargon. People lapped it up when there was goodwill, but there isn't in this situation. If JS spouts his usual pretentious shite to show us how clever he is, it'll go down like a lead balloon. The best thing they can do is stay quiet and sign us some players that have more than 13 minutes of football league experience.
If he didn't come to an arrangement on his contract then when he went to manage another club his contract with us ceases and we stop paying him. Alternatively if he has done a deal with us he is free to take that money and get another job in management. I don't know how much we would have had to pay him in such a deal but a fair way short of 100 percent or else why bother. It can still work out enormously beneficial for both parties as would be the case now he has another job.
I think he's highly likely to have taken a deal with us. We would owe him 100% of the rest of his contract from being sacked to the end of the term. It would be short of 100% otherwise the club wouldn't agree to it, but if it's a lot less, Hurst wouldn't agree to it, so I'd still expect you're paying 60-80% of the contract, so you're still paying multiple people's salaries.
If we sacked off Artell as well, and that number is 75%, we are paying 150% of a salary (Hurst and Artell, without even mentioning Doig), plus a new manager, so 250% what we would usually pay on management fees. It costs the club money to sack managers, and ultimately, our squad needs investment.
Yes nothing says leadership like issuing a statement after a loss to say “this could turn into an existential crisis”.
Very normal behaviour.
It is not just after a loss though is it? it after a whole series of adverse feedback loops.It is called contingency planning.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
The roof and other items were ones that were kicked down the street by the previous owner. That job in particular was hidden from them too. His penny pinching is lingering round the club like a post kebab fart, still creating issues like we see today.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
The roof and other items were ones that were kicked down the street by the previous owner. That job in particular was hidden from them too. His penny pinching is lingering round the club like a post kebab fart, still creating issues like we see today.
And since those days, all we have done is get a couple of new brushes, but we are still covering up the cracks with whitewash.
Tell me, has our league position improved?
Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood!
We have to play Forest Green, Swindon, Bradford and Doncaster all at home, 4 teams that are in worse states than we are. Crawley away last game of the season in a likely game that'll mean 0 to them.
We played Sutton and Colchester at home look how well that ended .Not sure where Bradford are in trouble .We lost to Doncaster and drew with FGR we haven't beaten a team in the bottom 6
We played Sutton and Colchester at home look how well that ended .Not sure where Bradford are in trouble .We lost to Doncaster and drew with FGR we haven't beaten a team in the bottom 6
Bradford are bang in trouble in terms of form, probably have too many points on the board to go down but they had a new manager bounce but are now in worse form than us. They've lost the first choice keeper and the fans are in uproar about the way the club is run. Haven't won a game since the 22nd of December.
Do you think a commercial property investor and ex property lawyer would take on Blundell Park without having a survey?
It all fell in line with this 10 year annual inspection didn't it , were all the big work was picked up on - they must have known there were big jobs from that ,maybe they didn't quite realise the cost implications , still over 1 million of work to do isn't there with The Main stand and Findus?
I would be interested to know the cost of maintaining BP against the cost of other newer stadiums , because they must all need money spending on them to keep them running and whether once these bigger works are done at BP they will get a bit if respite in terms of having to spend money on the stadium .
It is not just after a loss though is it? it after a whole series of adverse feedback loops.It is called contingency planning.
At what stage of your contingency plans would you say it’s appropriate to publicly issue a statement to say “we acknowledge here have been a series of adverse feedback loops, and this could lead to an existential crisis”?
Baring in mind that the vast majority of the club’s stakeholders - sponsors, corporate partners, fans, players, staff - aren’t the kind of hyper-involved, terminally online doom-mongers that inhabit this particular dark corner of the internet?
I sit at home and follow the fortunes of my home town team (the alex) and places where I worked. I was in Grimbo for three years when we were climbing into the Championship with you lads and falling out again with you lads. I am 84 and live an hours drive from Crewe so never go now. I dont normally post on any forums either usually. I hope you wont mind me commenting on this Artell thread. I have tried to work out what the long term plan of your board is. In 1983 Gradi was given indefinite time to stop us finishing in the bottom four every year and build a youth system - it was before academies really. It took 6 years. Although he sold two or three players for money they were low league and non league finds - he was good at that. Kenny Swain was appointed assistant and was poached almost immediately so they got Baker in from Leek Town because no league club would want him and he was also good at finding lower league talent. Eventually our own talent came through and discovered talent was coached to fruition. David Platt, Rob Jones, Geoff Thomas, Danny Murphy, Ashley Ward, Wayne Collins, Seth Johnson, Robbie Savage, Neil Lennon. And later Rob Hulse, Dean Ashton, David Vaughan, Michael O'Connor, Billy Jones, Nicky Maynard and Ashley Westwood No 2. The organisation, personnel required and expense involved are enormous. As a result they cant afford to spend on buying players. The slogan became "We will go with what we've got" So if the next batch of youngsters hasn't come through yet they sigh, shrug shoulders and get relegated. Is this the template that your board has agreed with Artell? If so, firstly you must be patient. Secondly, I am not sure that Artell is the man to set up a youth system AND keep the team going until it delivers. Remember he was only in position as Academy boss for a short time. He built nothing. The system was staffed and running and would continue to do so whether he was there or not. When he was a player and on his return Manager he was used to players emerging into the first team like they always did. Then, we arrived at a time when some good youngsters were a year away so he had to find players who could make a difference to the team for nothing or cheaper if poss! and Crewe rarely recruit many players from ouside the club. His recruitment could be described as useless but in truth it wasnt as good as that! And so Crewe were on the brink of disaster. They went back to the old system and tried joint managers from the Academy system and changed that again before settling down with Lee Bell. They have had a significant injury problem this year but by introducing new youngsters have somehow got away with it. Having lost two key players this month they could slide now unless the injured come back and hit form straight away. Some youngsters are out of contract this year so what happens next year? Is this what you think Town's forward plan is going to be? Is this what you're letting yourselves in for? Ignore me if you think this isnt helpful. I was so pleased when you came back up. I think you are going to scrape by this year. I have a lot of experience in this area! And stop wingeing on about a new stadium. Do the existing one up.
I sit at home and follow the fortunes of my home town team (the alex) and places where I worked. I was in Grimbo for three years when we were climbing into the Championship with you lads and falling out again with you lads. I am 84 and live an hours drive from Crewe so never go now. I dont normally post on any forums either usually. I hope you wont mind me commenting on this Artell thread. I have tried to work out what the long term plan of your board is. In 1983 Gradi was given indefinite time to stop us finishing in the bottom four every year and build a youth system - it was before academies really. It took 6 years. Although he sold two or three players for money they were low league and non league finds - he was good at that. Kenny Swain was appointed assistant and was poached almost immediately so they got Baker in from Leek Town because no league club would want him and he was also good at finding lower league talent. Eventually our own talent came through and discovered talent was coached to fruition. David Platt, Rob Jones, Geoff Thomas, Danny Murphy, Ashley Ward, Wayne Collins, Seth Johnson, Robbie Savage, Neil Lennon. And later Rob Hulse, Dean Ashton, David Vaughan, Michael O'Connor, Billy Jones, Nicky Maynard and Ashley Westwood No 2. The organisation, personnel required and expense involved are enormous. As a result they cant afford to spend on buying players. The slogan became "We will go with what we've got" So if the next batch of youngsters hasn't come through yet they sigh, shrug shoulders and get relegated. Is this the template that your board has agreed with Artell? If so, firstly you must be patient. Secondly, I am not sure that Artell is the man to set up a youth system AND keep the team going until it delivers. Remember he was only in position as Academy boss for a short time. He built nothing. The system was staffed and running and would continue to do so whether he was there or not. When he was a player and on his return Manager he was used to players emerging into the first team like they always did. Then, we arrived at a time when some good youngsters were a year away so he had to find players who could make a difference to the team for nothing or cheaper if poss! and Crewe rarely recruit many players from ouside the club. His recruitment could be described as useless but in truth it wasnt as good as that! And so Crewe were on the brink of disaster. They went back to the old system and tried joint managers from the Academy system and changed that again before settling down with Lee Bell. They have had a significant injury problem this year but by introducing new youngsters have somehow got away with it. Having lost two key players this month they could slide now unless the injured come back and hit form straight away. Some youngsters are out of contract this year so what happens next year? Is this what you think Town's forward plan is going to be? Is this what you're letting yourselves in for? Ignore me if you think this isnt helpful. I was so pleased when you came back up. I think you are going to scrape by this year. I have a lot of experience in this area! And stop wingeing on about a new stadium. Do the existing one up.
The plan isn't to try and replicate the Crewe youth system, nor is our youth setup central to Artell coming in. Our youth team is doing really well this season and I think everyone is optimistic that one or two players might break through at some point but in reality our academy doesn't produce players that come through into the first team very often at all. Harry Clifton on 250+ appearances is very much the outlier of recent years.
The model/plan of the owners seems to be going down the route of bringing in young talent from elsewhere that is ready for senior football and transferring them on for higher fees and substantial sell ons. Where Artell comes into this is that he's been brought in to change the style of football from Hurst's pragmatic way to something that is more pleasing on the eye and thus more marketable towards said players. I'd imagine the fact that he has previosuly successfully incorporated young players with little or no EFL experience into a League 2 side was also a factor in his appointment.
It remains to be seen how much control Artell has over recruitment, but we have a recruitment team in place that is also working on this side of things and they're adopting a...whisper it quietly...data led approach.
In terms of the wider plan, the long term vision of the owners is to make the club sustainable and to deepen the roots within the community.
It's an interesting point you raise about the patience of Crewe fans, as I've always felt that Crewe fans are probably about as patient as you get in the EFL. Us Grimsby fans are cut from an entirely different cloth though and probably more representative of football fans in general. What I would say on that though is that seeing your side drop into the National League twice and being involved in countless fourth tier relegation scraps and lower midtable seasons that fizzle out hasn't helped things at all. The desire and pressure for a League 2 promotion push is massive. We've not been above the fourth tier since we were relegated into it at the end of the 2003/04 season. It's probably easier to be patient when you're a Crewe fan and you know that even if you have a poor League 2 season then you're probably gonna be pushing for promotion the season after. This is a belief that we just don't have as Grimsby fans because up until the new owners came in there hasn't been any kind of plan or identity over the past few decades to put our trust in. Having owners that want to push us forward is new for us and being told we need to be patient and actually understanding that and acting on it are very different things especially when your side puts in some of the performances they have this seaaon.
He’s a fooking liability this bloke . The sooner he’s gone the better. Totally fooled our owners with a load of spiel about how he’s going to make us play some kind of modern football. It’s league 2 matey . You believe your hype . You’re not fooling the fans though.
He has to go this weekend, put Shaun and Ben back in to steer us to calmer waters, artell is a charlatan
Oh really? Put two guys in charge who were part of the backroom staff under PH, who helped to put us in this position, and also one of whom is Assistant Manager and the other still on the coaching staff that is part of where we are now?
Oh really? Put two guys in charge who were part of the backroom staff under PH, who helped to put us in this position, and also one of whom is Assistant Manager and the other still on the coaching staff that is part of where we are now?
So if you were JS now , what would you do now Bear ?
Panic ? Who said anything about panicking? It’s just clear this guy is a fooking liability.
Sorry I forgot 0-0 at Accrington was a good result.
Yes, it was a very good result and a very good performance, playing the same tactics we are playing today. I'm no expert, but watching every game this season I think it is fairly obvious that we don't have the numbers of quality players that other teams appear to have, which results in the many mistakes that end up with us conceding goals.
Yes, it was a very good result and a very good performance, playing the same tactics we are playing today. I'm no expert, but watching every game this season I think it is fairly obvious that we don't have the numbers of quality players that other teams appear to have, which results in the many mistakes that end up with us conceding goals.
You should rename yourself black and white ostrich because you’re burying your head in the sand
Our game plan is a gift to the opposition. Just force us into mistakes. Artell won't get sacked because he was given instructions by the owners to play this way. No idea why.
We need a result on Tuesday we have to get rid of David Brent and try and get a reaction. As for JS and co for all his hot air and Guardian interviews he’s assembled the third worst team in England and Wales. Staring relegation on the face.
The owners really need to take accountability on this one. They were gifted a promoted team, a huge swell of fan buy in, sold out shirts, merchandise flying out the club shop, season tickets at an all-time-high, albeit with a dilapidated stadium and very few facilities, and they deliver the fans this.
The owners really need to take accountability on this one. They were gifted a promoted team, a huge swell of fan buy in, sold out shirts, merchandise flying out the club shop, season tickets at an all-time-high, albeit with a dilapidated stadium and very few facilities, and they deliver the fans this.
Pretty sure we'd have more points on the board had we kept Hurst. I thought it was the right decision at the time to sack him but the route we have gone down is the road to ruin. We don't have the players and frankly probably can't afford them to play the expansive style they have been asked to. Even more bonkers when we are in the middle of a relegation battle to embark on this path. The bottom two through pure luck keep losing. Artell if he doesn't relegate us this season will relegate us next one. Should cut our losses now and play to our strengths. Stop fannying around with short passes in our own defensive third.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Pretty sure we'd have more points on the board had we kept Hurst. I thought it was the right decision at the time to sack him but the route we have gone down is the road to ruin. We don't have the players and frankly probably can't afford them to play the expansive style they have been asked to. Even more bonkers when we are in the middle of a relegation battle to embark on this path. The bottom two through pure luck keep losing. Artell if he doesn't relegate us this season will relegate us next one. Should cut our losses now and play to our strengths. Stop fannying around with short passes in our own defensive third.
Agreed, can’t see him changing his style and the players aren’t fighting for him. Get rid now while we still have time to turn it around
This thing Artell keeps saying ...its gonna take time is only to cover his back . The only thing he has done is take us backward and very quickley . Oldsaying is if you keep doing te same things you will get the same results more often than not
Pretty sure we'd have more points on the board had we kept Hurst. I thought it was the right decision at the time to sack him but the route we have gone down is the road to ruin. We don't have the players and frankly probably can't afford them to play the expansive style they have been asked to. Even more bonkers when we are in the middle of a relegation battle to embark on this path. The bottom two through pure luck keep losing. Artell if he doesn't relegate us this season will relegate us next one. Should cut our losses now and play to our strengths. Stop fannying around with short passes in our own defensive third.
I follow Grimsbys fortunes because I worked over there for some time. I was an Alex supporter but am too old to drive over there now and follow both from my armchair. I said on another thread on here that if you have appointed Artell expecting to build a Crewe type of operating system - mainly Academy youth and coached on non league players then you need patience. You have to "Go with what weve got" to quote the Alex mantra. That takes around 6 years before it gets any return. Also, Artell does not have an Academy pedigree. The "System" was in place long before he joined as a player even. It operates despite not because of the Academy Manager. As Manager of the football club he receives lads who progress through the system and thats what he is used to. When they are not yet ready and dont arrive - guess what? Just look at Crewe's history. The worst season for a very long time for Crewe was what got him laid off. Not enough talented youngsters coming through that year and appalling recruitment. I wish I knew what to say you should do but I dont know. Do you put up with things and hope you can avoid the drop - there is a gap but is it big enough? Stockport are the top team after all. If you bullet him what happens? Who do you get in? Are they going to be able to stop the rot?
I hope that you scrape through by the skin of your teeth and that you have enough recruitment talent there to pull away from the bottom next year.
Meanwhile, the Alex are doing OK -...............but there are contracts coming to an end and nobody pays less than the Alex. So next season....... is it our turn in the barrel?
I follow Grimsbys fortunes because I worked over there for some time. I was an Alex supporter but am too old to drive over there now and follow both from my armchair. I said on another thread on here that if you have appointed Artell expecting to build a Crewe type of operating system - mainly Academy youth and coached on non league players then you need patience. You have to "Go with what weve got" to quote the Alex mantra. That takes around 6 years before it gets any return. Also, Artell does not have an Academy pedigree. The "System" was in place long before he joined as a player even. It operates despite not because of the Academy Manager. As Manager of the football club he receives lads who progress through the system and thats what he is used to. When they are not yet ready and dont arrive - guess what? Just look at Crewe's history. The worst season for a very long time for Crewe was what got him laid off. Not enough talented youngsters coming through that year and appalling recruitment. I wish I knew what to say you should do but I dont know. Do you put up with things and hope you can avoid the drop - there is a gap but is it big enough? Stockport are the top team after all. If you bullet him what happens? Who do you get in? Are they going to be able to stop the rot?
I hope that you scrape through by the skin of your teeth and that you have enough recruitment talent there to pull away from the bottom next year.
Meanwhile, the Alex are doing OK -...............but there are contracts coming to an end and nobody pays less than the Alex. So next season....... is it our turn in the barrel?
Thank you for your insights Mickey. A lot to think about. I'm not sure we've got that length of time to sort out a side. Hurst was always a man that could bring a ragtag group together, but I don't quite belive Artell can do the same.
'I walked in the dressing room. The window was open and I thought that a sea fret had got in. Then I saw smoke billowing from a pipe in the corner of the room...it was my centre-forward. He looked seven stone wet through. He went on to score thirty-odd goals that season.' Lawrie McMenemy on encountering the legend that was Matt Tees.
The owners really need to take accountability on this one. They were gifted a promoted team, a huge swell of fan buy in, sold out shirts, merchandise flying out the club shop, season tickets at an all-time-high, albeit with a dilapidated stadium and very few facilities, and they deliver the fans this.
At last scales falling from peoples eyes we were so relieved at getting rid of Fenty nobody saw the danger signs . Artel was very shrewd and told Stockwood what he wanted to hear,and he fell for it.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
When do we form up at the bus shelter on Isaac’s Hill, lighting the torches and flying the banners, to march down Grimsby Rd. and insist that we at least …
Living in Exile since 1980, but still have Black and White blood!
At last scales falling from peoples eyes we were so relieved at getting rid of Fenty nobody saw the danger signs . Artel was very shrewd and told Stockwood what he wanted to hear,and he fell for it.
I think it's deeper than that. He really believes in this way of playing. He was our first choice, we may have spent ages appointing him but we approached him as the owners specifically wanted to play this way. It was a requirement of working here, on the job spec, and he was a devotee of it, we literally hand picked him. So for him to be sacked it effectively means the owners abandoning their philosophy and returning to more "industrial" football. It would be quite a volte-face.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
I think it's deeper than that. He really believes in this way of playing. He was our first choice, we may have spent ages appointing him but we approached him as the owners specifically wanted to play this way. It was a requirement of working here, on the job spec, and he was a devotee of it, we literally hand picked him. So for him to be sacked it effectively means the owners abandoning their philosophy and returning to more "industrial" football. It would be quite a volte-face.
I think it's deeper than that. He really believes in this way of playing. He was our first choice, we may have spent ages appointing him but we approached him as the owners specifically wanted to play this way. It was a requirement of working here, on the job spec, and he was a devotee of it, we literally hand picked him. So for him to be sacked it effectively means the owners abandoning their philosophy and returning to more "industrial" football. It would be quite a volte-face.
If Stockwood has gotta eat some humble pie to save our league position then I fully expect him to chow down on it even if he don't like them apples
His insistence on playing a certain way could mean we end up at ebbsfleet next year . If I was DA I’d be guaranteeing my job for another year by making sure gtfc were in the EFL
Pretty sure we'd have more points on the board had we kept Hurst. I thought it was the right decision at the time to sack him but the route we have gone down is the road to ruin. We don't have the players and frankly probably can't afford them to play the expansive style they have been asked to. Even more bonkers when we are in the middle of a relegation battle to embark on this path. The bottom two through pure luck keep losing. Artell if he doesn't relegate us this season will relegate us next one. Should cut our losses now and play to our strengths. Stop fannying around with short passes in our own defensive third.
Our strengths being what ? We have virtually a new team so we don’t know what there strengths are.
Pretty sure we'd have more points on the board had we kept Hurst. I thought it was the right decision at the time to sack him but the route we have gone down is the road to ruin. We don't have the players and frankly probably can't afford them to play the expansive style they have been asked to. Even more bonkers when we are in the middle of a relegation battle to embark on this path. The bottom two through pure luck keep losing. Artell if he doesn't relegate us this season will relegate us next one. Should cut our losses now and play to our strengths. Stop fannying around with short passes in our own defensive third.
There was a third way though. Sack Hurst and make a decent appointment to replace him.
DA’s reign is turning into a farce.
We’ve conceded 16 goals in our last 4 home league matches.
To put that into context under Alan Buckley mk1 we only conceded 18 goals at home in his first season. We conceded 20 goals at home in his second season (D4 promotion). And we only conceded 13 goals the following season in D3 as we won back to back promotion.
For me he’s got 7 days to save his job. If he fails to win either game against the teams around us in the table then he’d deserve it.
Hurst probably got extra time because he had credit in the bank. DA doesn’t have any past successes to point to.
I think it's deeper than that. He really believes in this way of playing. He was our first choice, we may have spent ages appointing him but we approached him as the owners specifically wanted to play this way. It was a requirement of working here, on the job spec, and he was a devotee of it, we literally hand picked him. So for him to be sacked it effectively means the owners abandoning their philosophy and returning to more "industrial" football. It would be quite a volte-face.
Then the owners are deluded. I had aspirations of playing for England, but I made it as a sub on the main boys team in primary. The owners, to me, seem fantastic, they have all the values that I want our football club to be, but at the same time they feel like dreamers. The priority is winning matches of football and that's where it ends, ultimately. I too like free-flowing, out from the back footie, ala Man City, but we're Grimsby Town, with unsatisfactory toilet facilities.
Well maybe the owners are not really great at choosing a Manager I mean Fenty had a dozen and they all failed miserably. Artell is really beginning to grate with a lot of fans already he's stubborn has a mule and he looks woefully short of tactical nouse.The set pieces for example are atrocious and the defending is amongst the worst I've ever seen.Rodgers must be 6ft 3in and towered over County's forward yet won nowt in the air.That would be mildly acceptable if he was better on the deck but his passing to row K in the Findus suggests that isn't his strength either? Maher at times has looked OK but today was another off day but again what do they work on? A Stockport player went off injured he was down for a few minutes and our players are all on there own our captain and management team did nowt to rally them.If we lose Tuesday I'd pull the plug personally but Stockwood doesn't have the balls and like Rob says he'd have egg on his face No shame in making a mistake we all do Jason but ffs put it right if you need to.
To be honest I feel for Artell. From what I gather he was Stockwood and Pettit’s target man for the post. Both reinforced this when the appointment was made. Again, if I remember right, Kristine (SLO) also confirmed this when talking to Humberside post Artell’s appointment.
It also became clear, through interviews with Stockwood, that HE (Stockwood) had a style of play and identity that he himself preferred and had discussed this with Artell during the process of recruitment.
Basically Artell was head hunted to carry out a preferred brief by the owners. He is now trying to carry this out with the players he inherited and those that were available to him in the January window. The players were not performing under Hurst, who couldn’t get a tune out of them and few are capable of adapting to Artell’s instructions. Basically the players are just not capable at this level. That is not the fault of Artell. For all those who say he should just change his style to adapt to the players strengths, what are those strengths? Hurst couldn’t get them to gel and play his style and neither can Artell. This isn’t a criticism of the players, they’re just not suited to each other and the requirements for this level.
The abuse Artell is receiving after such a short time in the post, on all social media platforms is, to be honest, abhorrent and the speed at which “supporters” are turning on players after conceding a goal, against top of the league opposition, says more about Grimsby’s current following than anything happening on the pitch, or in the dressing room.
Artell stressed from day one that the task he has been given cannot be completed quickly, and would take many months. He told us, it wouldn’t be a pretty sight at times. He shouldn’t have to tell supporters of a football club that this is the case, that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but at GTFC it appears he does, again and again and again.
Thankfully Shaun and Ben are still here , ditch D.A. and let them ssee out the season . They took 5 points from a possible 9 in their three games in charge . Given a transfer window as well , I wonder where we could have been now ? Pass the Paracetamol, I feel a Holloway coming on .. U.T.M.
Thankfully Shaun and Ben are still here , ditch D.A. and let them ssee out the season . They took 5 points from a possible 9 in their three games in charge . Given a transfer window as well , I wonder where we could have been now ? Pass the Paracetamol, I feel a Holloway coming on .. U.T.M.
Oh do give up on this narrative, Pearson and Davis aren't and never were the answer, they couldn't even beat a FGR team that were leaking goals for fun and struggled against a bunch of tinker, tailors and candlestick makers
To be honest I feel for Artell. From what I gather he was Stockwood and Pettit’s target man for the post. Both reinforced this when the appointment was made. Again, if I remember right, Kristine (SLO) also confirmed this when talking to Humberside post Artell’s appointment.
It also became clear, through interviews with Stockwood, that HE (Stockwood) had a style of play and identity that he himself preferred and had discussed this with Artell during the process of recruitment.
Basically Artell was head hunted to carry out a preferred brief by the owners. He is now trying to carry this out with the players he inherited and those that were available to him in the January window. The players were not performing under Hurst, who couldn’t get a tune out of them and few are capable of adapting to Artell’s instructions. Basically the players are just not capable at this level. That is not the fault of Artell. For all those who say he should just change his style to adapt to the players strengths, what are those strengths? Hurst couldn’t get them to gel and play his style and neither can Artell. This isn’t a criticism of the players, they’re just not suited to each other and the requirements for this level.
The abuse Artell is receiving after such a short time in the post, on all social media platforms is, to be honest, abhorrent and the speed at which “supporters” are turning on players after conceding a goal, against top of the league opposition, says more about Grimsby’s current following than anything happening on the pitch, or in the dressing room.
Artell stressed from day one that the task he has been given cannot be completed quickly, and would take many months. He told us, it wouldn’t be a pretty sight at times. He shouldn’t have to tell supporters of a football club that this is the case, that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but at GTFC it appears he does, again and again and again.
The abuse Artell is receiving after such a short time in the post, on all social media platforms is, to be honest, abhorrent and the speed at which “supporters” are turning on players after conceding a goal, against top of the league opposition, says more about Grimsby’s current following than anything happening on the pitch, or in the dressing room.
Artell stressed from day one that the task he has been given cannot be completed quickly, and would take many months. He told us, it wouldn’t be a pretty sight at times. He shouldn’t have to tell supporters of a football club that this is the case, that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but at GTFC it appears he does, again and again and again.
The thing is, he never had many months, it was a relegation battle from appointment, to not see that is naïve at best. The owners wanting a certain level play is quite frankly baffling and I think the more I hear about their part in the appointment, the less I believe in their ambitions.
He’s been the first appointment in a while that I’ve not been in the slightest bit sold on.
I’ve got to go back to Nicky Law in 2004 the last time I thought nope, not even a single iota of confidence in this appointment. There was even a morsel more sold on Neil Woods getting the job in 2009 despite not winning a game in his caretaker spell.
I just can’t listen to him, even from day 1 in his first interview, not one strand of me has thought this was a good appointment, that’s not to say I’ve not been supportive. But the football is crap, and I know Hurst’s poor recruitment in the summer has been the catalyst, but we said previously Artell is the wrong man at the wrong time.
Weird thing is, the owners and some of the fans wanted a more attractive style of football, so they appointed a man who plays that style, the downside is the players both at the club already or the ones brought in look incapable of that style and the guy dishing out that philosophy is trying to do it without bringing in his own coaching staff to help, and seemingly isn’t as capable as what the owners would have hoped.
Normally I would be against upsetting the apple cart and resetting so quickly, I’d like to think in my 30 years of supporting Town I’m a fairly ground and wise head but I’ve gotta admit I would be happy if he went right now.
I know it’s easier said than done finding a replacement who can steady the ship, but a calmer, more fathomable head is needed. Else you’re right…Altrincham we come !
Our strengths being what ? We have virtually a new team so we don’t know what there strengths are.
We need to go back to grinding out draws and a few wins. The first part of the season we lost a few games but they were rarely heavy defeats and normally we had at least a chance of getting something in the final stages. The transfer window has arguably strengthened the team but we're not a free-scoring side who can gift the opposition multiple goal-scoring opportunities every game. It might not be sexy football .
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
You could almost take it if there was some acknowledgement of just how deep in the shít we are. Artell sounded exactly like Hurst in that interview, going on about underlying metrics and our great away form (1 win in 6). Even Tondeur pulled him up when he said nobody was moaning when we scored 5 against Notts County, pointing out that we had also managed to concede 5. That’s how bad it is when even John Tondeur has to make that point.
We are in fųcking shambles here. He talks about how all the players & coaches have a voice and are expected to contribute and communicate - is there not one single person then, from almost 30 squad members, Shaun Pearson & Ben Davies, Steve Croudson, the analysts, the owners or the kitman who will stand up and say there is a fundamental problem?
If not, then they either don’t understand or, worse, don’t care about the fact we’re a gnat’s cøck away from going out the league AGAIN. It’s 9pts now, but there’s 16 games still to play. We lose two & Forest Green win two, which could hypothetically be the case this time next week, and I’m not sure any of the absolute fannies in this squad have the spine for the fight they’ll end up in.
If not, then they either don’t understand or, worse, don’t care about the fact we’re a gnat’s cøck away from going out the league AGAIN. It’s 9pts now, but there’s 16 games still to play. We lose two & Forest Green win two, which could hypothetically be the case this time next week, and I’m not sure any of the absolute fannies in this squad have the spine for the fight they’ll end up in.
The next few games are massive. A few weeks ago I thought the season might be all but over in February, It still could be with a couple of wins but it's hard to see!
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
He’s been the first appointment in a while that I’ve not been in the slightest bit sold on.
I’ve got to go back to Nicky Law in 2004 the last time I thought nope, not even a single iota of confidence in this appointment. There was even a morsel more sold on Neil Woods getting the job in 2009 despite not winning a game in his caretaker spell.
I just can’t listen to him, even from day 1 in his first interview, not one strand of me has thought this was a good appointment, that’s not to say I’ve not been supportive. But the football is crap, and I know Hurst’s poor recruitment in the summer has been the catalyst, but we said previously Artell is the wrong man at the wrong time.
Weird thing is, the owners and some of the fans wanted a more attractive style of football, so they appointed a man who plays that style, the downside is the players both at the club already or the ones brought in look incapable of that style and the guy dishing out that philosophy is trying to do it without bringing in his own coaching staff to help, and seemingly isn’t as capable as what the owners would have hoped.
Normally I would be against upsetting the apple cart and resetting so quickly, I’d like to think in my 30 years of supporting Town I’m a fairly ground and wise head but I’ve gotta admit I would be happy if he went right now.
I know it’s easier said than done finding a replacement who can steady the ship, but a calmer, more fathomable head is needed. Else you’re right…Altrincham we come !
It's worse than that - the mighty Altrincham are on a roll & heading for the play offs - more likely Dorking I fear.
You could almost take it if there was some acknowledgement of just how deep in the shít we are. Artell sounded exactly like Hurst in that interview, going on about underlying metrics and our great away form (1 win in 6). Even Tondeur pulled him up when he said nobody was moaning when we scored 5 against Notts County, pointing out that we had also managed to concede 5. That’s how bad it is when even John Tondeur has to make that point.
We are in fųcking shambles here. He talks about how all the players & coaches have a voice and are expected to contribute and communicate - is there not one single person then, from almost 30 squad members, Shaun Pearson & Ben Davies, Steve Croudson, the analysts, the owners or the kitman who will stand up and say there is a fundamental problem?
If not, then they either don’t understand or, worse, don’t care about the fact we’re a gnat’s cøck away from going out the league AGAIN. It’s 9pts now, but there’s 16 games still to play. We lose two & Forest Green win two, which could hypothetically be the case this time next week, and I’m not sure any of the absolute fannies in this squad have the spine for the fight they’ll end up in.
This
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
After 30 odd minutes a Stockport player went down and they called on the physio (I recall they’ve done that a few times when we’ve played them) Challoner called his players over as a team and talked them through some stuff.
Artell called one player in and kept pointing at a bit of A4 the rest of the team stood there in their own doing a double tea pot or looking at the sky for divine intervention.
Sooner or later the players will lose belief in what Artell is trying to do then we’re in even deeper sh1t.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
After 30 odd minutes a Stockport player went down and they called on the physio (I recall they’ve done that a few times when we’ve played them) Challoner called his players over as a team and talked them through some stuff.
Artell called one player in and kept pointing at a bit of A4 the rest of the team stood there in their own doing a double tea pot or looking at the sky for divine intervention.
Sooner or later the players will lose belief in what Artell is trying to do then we’re in even deeper sh1t.
Tweet 1756342873388188064 will appear here...
About this time? They're a group of lads going through the motions and hopeful it ends.
You could almost take it if there was some acknowledgement of just how deep in the shít we are. Artell sounded exactly like Hurst in that interview, going on about underlying metrics and our great away form (1 win in 6). Even Tondeur pulled him up when he said nobody was moaning when we scored 5 against Notts County, pointing out that we had also managed to concede 5. That’s how bad it is when even John Tondeur has to make that point.
We are in fųcking shambles here. He talks about how all the players & coaches have a voice and are expected to contribute and communicate - is there not one single person then, from almost 30 squad members, Shaun Pearson & Ben Davies, Steve Croudson, the analysts, the owners or the kitman who will stand up and say there is a fundamental problem?
If not, then they either don’t understand or, worse, don’t care about the fact we’re a gnat’s cøck away from going out the league AGAIN. It’s 9pts now, but there’s 16 games still to play. We lose two & Forest Green win two, which could hypothetically be the case this time next week, and I’m not sure any of the absolute fannies in this squad have the spine for the fight they’ll end up in.
Don't always agree with you but that's spot on for me.
I think it's deeper than that. He really believes in this way of playing. He was our first choice, we may have spent ages appointing him but we approached him as the owners specifically wanted to play this way. It was a requirement of working here, on the job spec, and he was a devotee of it, we literally hand picked him. So for him to be sacked it effectively means the owners abandoning their philosophy and returning to more "industrial" football. It would be quite a volte-face.
Confuscius says''he who rides on the back of a tiger,cannot ever dismount''
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
About this time? They're a group of lads going through the motions and hopeful it ends.
Just posted about this on the “just back” thread. Why was rose messing around with their injured player and yapping to another one? Surely as a captain he should be taking on some responsibility of getting the other players together and going over some of what’s happened in the game already.
Thankfully Shaun and Ben are still here , ditch D.A. and let them ssee out the season . They took 5 points from a possible 9 in their three games in charge . Given a transfer window as well , I wonder where we could have been now ? Pass the Paracetamol, I feel a Holloway coming on .. U.T.M.
Aren't Shaun and Ben an integral part of the coaching team as they were in Hurst's coaching team, if so do they not share some responsibility?
About this time? They're a group of lads going through the motions and hopeful it ends.
Indeed it was.
Artell took over a side leaking goals & under threat from relegation the first job surely was to fix the defence & make us harder to beat as thats root cause of our poor results
He’s failed to address this as a priority and that I think just shows that maybe he’s just not the right man.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I don't understand why Artell isn't more pragmatic. He can't be that thick surely? Every single team we play knows that we will struggle to move the ball from the defence into midfield so are happy to let our defenders have it. They also know that if they press when there's a longer or slower pass or a bad touch, that our spineless players will panic and gift them chances.
We're not Man City. We don't have an enormous team of fantastic coaches, a bottomless pit of money and one of the strongest squads that club football has ever seen. We have to be more pragmatic and limit our weaknesses. Maybe in the future, with the correct players, it will be possible to play like this but right now we're just gifting goals every week.
I wonder if Artell's relative success at Crewe has warped his perception of his own coaching ability. He had a squad supplemented by a large amount of youth players that are all playing Championship football now. Good, technical players who have been coached to play this way since childhood. But we're not Crewe. We don't have good technical players, we've mostly got players that have no bottle and often aren't particularly good at the basics. If he wants to save his job he needs to stop being so stubborn. I'd give him a week and if we haven't got at least three points from the next two games then he's got to go.
I don't understand why Artell isn't more pragmatic. He can't be that thick surely? Every single team we play knows that we will struggle to move the ball from the defence into midfield so are happy to let our defenders have it. They also know that if they press when there's a longer or slower pass or a bad touch, that our spineless players will panic and gift them chances.
We're not Man City. We don't have an enormous team of fantastic coaches, a bottomless pit of money and one of the strongest squads that club football has ever seen. We have to be more pragmatic and limit our weaknesses. Maybe in the future, with the correct players, it will be possible to play like this but right now we're just gifting goals every week.
I wonder if Artell's relative success at Crewe has warped his perception of his own coaching ability. He had a squad supplemented by a large amount of youth players that are all playing Championship football now. Good, technical players who have been coached to play this way since childhood. But we're not Crewe. We don't have good technical players, we've mostly got players that have no bottle and often aren't particularly at the basics. If he wants to save his job he needs to stop being so stubborn. I'd give him a week and if we haven't got at least three points from the next two games then he's got to go.
I subscribe to this belief. He was given an incredibly talented Alex side that were technical and could move the ball, so he went with it, thinking that he's a technical genius. Now he's got a dog excrement Grimsby side that can't hit barn door with a banjo and he's trying to make them Pirouettes with a club foot.
Rejecting any change and sticking to his way - even when clearly failing. His post-match comments infuriate fans again when he still thinks he is right. And will attempt to prove his case with selected evidence and dis-jointed views. We are too good to go down.
I don't understand why Artell isn't more pragmatic. He can't be that thick surely?
I don’t think Artell is “thick” at all and if you want “pragmatic” then we had that in Hurst, in spades. Hurst recruited for and attempted to play a more attractive style of football at the beginning of this season. I’m sure he was happy with his close season business, as many of us seemed to be at the time. In his interviews discussing signings, he was literally beaming like a Cheshire Cat. You could even argue that Hurst believed he had recruited the type of player capable of playing in the style Artell now wants to adopt!
But, it soon became apparent to all that the new and existing players were not suited to a more passing style of play and being pragmatic Hurst soon returned to type. But we all know how that turned out!
I’ll be honest, I know didley squat about football tactics. But, there are numerous posts saying if Artell could just change this, tweak that, play to strengths etc. Surely though it’s not that easy and as simple as that, as The pragmatic and experienced Hurst realised to his peril?
I don’t think Artell is “thick” at all and if you want “pragmatic” then we had that in Hurst, in spades. Hurst recruited for and attempted to play a more attractive style of football at the beginning of this season. I’m sure he was happy with his close season business, as many of us seemed to be at the time. In his interviews discussing signings, he was literally beaming like a Cheshire Cat. You could even argue that Hurst believed he had recruited the type of player capable of playing in the style Artell now wants to adopt!
But, it soon became apparent to all that the new and existing players were not suited to a more passing style of play and being pragmatic Hurst soon returned to type. But we all know how that turned out!
I’ll be honest, I know didley squat about football tactics. But, there are numerous posts saying if Artell could just change this, tweak that, play to strengths etc. Surely though it’s not that easy and as simple as that, as The pragmatic Hurst realised to his peril?
There must be a happy medium between Hurst's ultra defensive, keep your shape to the detriment of any attacking intent approach from earlier this season and the passing ourselves into trouble in our defensive third that Artell is insisting we play. Even when we're passing it across the back, it's so slow and predictable that it creates nothing. The whole idea of playing out from the back as far as I can tell is A) if you've got the ball, you're in control and B) moving it quickly disrupts the shape of the opposition to create space to attack. But we don't move it quickly and the showing from the midfield is non-existent. So if you're the manager and presumably can see the same things that the rest of us can namely that our defenders aren't good enough on the ball and panic when under pressure and that our midfielders don't move to receive it to feet then why keep playing that way?! If done well then playing that way creates more chances for you than it causes problems but the issue is that we're abysmal at it currently.
To be honest I feel for Artell. From what I gather he was Stockwood and Pettit’s target man for the post. Both reinforced this when the appointment was made. Again, if I remember right, Kristine (SLO) also confirmed this when talking to Humberside post Artell’s appointment.
It also became clear, through interviews with Stockwood, that HE (Stockwood) had a style of play and identity that he himself preferred and had discussed this with Artell during the process of recruitment.
Basically Artell was head hunted to carry out a preferred brief by the owners. He is now trying to carry this out with the players he inherited and those that were available to him in the January window. The players were not performing under Hurst, who couldn’t get a tune out of them and few are capable of adapting to Artell’s instructions. Basically the players are just not capable at this level. That is not the fault of Artell. For all those who say he should just change his style to adapt to the players strengths, what are those strengths? Hurst couldn’t get them to gel and play his style and neither can Artell. This isn’t a criticism of the players, they’re just not suited to each other and the requirements for this level.
The abuse Artell is receiving after such a short time in the post, on all social media platforms is, to be honest, abhorrent and the speed at which “supporters” are turning on players after conceding a goal, against top of the league opposition, says more about Grimsby’s current following than anything happening on the pitch, or in the dressing room.
Artell stressed from day one that the task he has been given cannot be completed quickly, and would take many months. He told us, it wouldn’t be a pretty sight at times. He shouldn’t have to tell supporters of a football club that this is the case, that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but at GTFC it appears he does, again and again and again.
We have won 1 in 9 games (n that was against an unbelievably abysmal salford) and are shipping goals for fun.not asking him to ditch his principles, just be pragmatic, get us safe n then go for it
To be honest I feel for Artell. From what I gather he was Stockwood and Pettit’s target man for the post. Both reinforced this when the appointment was made. Again, if I remember right, Kristine (SLO) also confirmed this when talking to Humberside post Artell’s appointment.
It also became clear, through interviews with Stockwood, that HE (Stockwood) had a style of play and identity that he himself preferred and had discussed this with Artell during the process of recruitment.
Basically Artell was head hunted to carry out a preferred brief by the owners. He is now trying to carry this out with the players he inherited and those that were available to him in the January window. The players were not performing under Hurst, who couldn’t get a tune out of them and few are capable of adapting to Artell’s instructions. Basically the players are just not capable at this level. That is not the fault of Artell. For all those who say he should just change his style to adapt to the players strengths, what are those strengths? Hurst couldn’t get them to gel and play his style and neither can Artell. This isn’t a criticism of the players, they’re just not suited to each other and the requirements for this level.
The abuse Artell is receiving after such a short time in the post, on all social media platforms is, to be honest, abhorrent and the speed at which “supporters” are turning on players after conceding a goal, against top of the league opposition, says more about Grimsby’s current following than anything happening on the pitch, or in the dressing room.
Artell stressed from day one that the task he has been given cannot be completed quickly, and would take many months. He told us, it wouldn’t be a pretty sight at times. He shouldn’t have to tell supporters of a football club that this is the case, that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but at GTFC it appears he does, again and again and again.
The Taj Mahal wasn't made out of breeze blocks. Build a bunker with them.
We have won 1 in 9 games (n that was against an unbelievably abysmal salford) and are shipping goals for fun.not asking him to ditch his principles, just be pragmatic, get us safe n then go for it
Starting to worry Stockwood & Pettit are out of their depth on the footballing side, wanting to implement 'the Grimsby way ' midway through a season , when changing a playing style u turn is nigh on impossible to implement .
Saying that 'the grimsby way ' the last 10 years has been lower end league 2 to NL on a loop so they are closer to it than they think .
Again, not read the thread but Artell can fook off back to Crewe for me. Didn't like him before he became our manager, but gave him the benefit of the doubt.
We look nothing like an organised team and are shipping goals for fun.
I feel rather than trying to play out from the back, our keeper in particular should launch the balls well down the touchlines in the opponents half.
What can happen then?
1 The defender wins the ball in the air and heads it forward, which then becomes the more winnable ball for our players facing it.
2 The defender tries to head the ball back to his keeper, who has had to leave his goal to retrieve it, or it is snapped up by a predator like Rose. Or alternately in doing so, he heads it out for a corner.
3 The defender heads it out, which gives us a throw in, in a very advantageous position.
We have won 1 in 9 games (n that was against an unbelievably abysmal salford) and are shipping goals for fun.not asking him to ditch his principles, just be pragmatic, get us safe n then go for it
It's not DA who needs a pep talk, it's players who play out from the back and pass directly to an opposition player, like Cartwright yesterday. And don't say that he was playing to instructions, as he should have enough common sense to see that pass wasn't on, and hoof it instead of giving a goal away. Also Clifton was stood 2 yards from the ball when the quick free kick was taken, he should have immediately stood in front of the ball to stop the quick pass, heaven knows even Sunday League players know to do this. And if we leave players unmarked on the penalty spot to have a free header and score, how is that, and the other 2 goals DA's fault? Those are individual errors that you see in every game, in every League, blaming the manager is just wrong, people in every job make mistakes, it appears that we don't have enough of those higher quality players that make less mistakes than others.
The discontent around Artell is now very palpable, in the pontoon and at half time all the conversations were around how poor he's been at not recognising we do not have the personnel to play the way he wants to.
And it was also very notable that in his first few games the players went over to get instructions during breaks in play, yesterday they just stood about staring into space.
It's not DA who needs a pep talk, it's players who play out from the back and pass directly to an opposition player, like Cartwright yesterday. And don't say that he was playing to instructions, as he should have enough common sense to see that pass wasn't on, and hoof it instead of giving a goal away. Also Clifton was stood 2 yards from the ball when the quick free kick was taken, he should have immediately stood in front of the ball to stop the quick pass, heaven knows even Sunday League players know to do this. And if we leave players unmarked on the penalty spot to have a free header and score, how is that, and the other 2 goals DA's fault? Those are individual errors that you see in every game, in every League, blaming the manager is just wrong, people in every job make mistakes, it appears that we don't have enough of those higher quality players that make less mistakes than others.
Artell laid into Cartwright for doing just that later. It's 100% on Artell that he's forcing this style of play regardless
The discontent around Artell is now very palpable, in the pontoon and at half time all the conversations were around how poor he's been at not recognising we do not have the personnel to play the way he wants to.
And it was also very notable that in his first few games the players went over to get instructions during breaks in play, yesterday they just stood about staring into space.
Remember when he arrived and Artell said he would be watching the first half from the stands to get a better view, then it became well maybe the first game or two he wouldn't whilst he got his message across. How many games into his tenure are we now? He is still on the sidelines like every other manager balling at the players. It's going badly wrong very quickly.
At last scales falling from peoples eyes we were so relieved at getting rid of Fenty nobody saw the danger signs . Artel was very shrewd and told Stockwood what he wanted to hear,and he fell for it.
He has a degree and that's the kind of balderdash that JS loves. Not belittling education, but it's irrelevant to a football manager.
I don't think we'll go down, the bottom two are so bad that we've pulled away from them despite being terrible. But I think there's much bigger problems on the horizon.
Can't imagine we're going to have anywhere near the ticket sales next season. They're going to need to seriously put some money in to give us a decent playing budget considering the huge expansion in staff around the club.
They get a pass on this managerial appointment since it's their first, as long as we stay up. But it's an absolute stinker and the first manager I've not felt any optimism about ever
He has a degree and that's the kind of balderdash that JS loves. Not belittling education, but it's irrelevant to a football manager.
I don't think we'll go down, the bottom two are so bad that we've pulled away from them despite being terrible. But I think there's much bigger problems on the horizon.
Can't imagine we're going to have anywhere near the ticket sales next season. They're going to need to seriously put some money in to give us a decent playing budget considering the huge expansion in staff around the club.
They get a pass on this managerial appointment since it's their first, as long as we stay up. But it's an absolute stinker and the first manager I've not felt any optimism about ever
The degree is irrelevant but the previous promotion from this league playing his style of football isn’t
Jason will just have to explain to his children that he has copulated up big style and that their inheritance will have to take a hit to sort it out or his reputation in his home Town will be trash.
Jason will just have to explain to his children that he has copulated up big style and that their inheritance will have to take a hit to sort it out or his reputation in his home Town will be trash.
In his most recent Guardian article, he wrote that running a football club wasn’t like running a normal business. If there’s one thing he should have learned from Fenty, that was it. You need to keep your customers. To do that, you need to keep them happy.
One or several on here far more unhappy than I’ve ever known.
Been thinking about this for a bit, under Buckley we possibly played the best football in the clubs post war history for a sustained period.
I can’t remember 2 CHs stood on the edge of the 6 yard box at goal kicks waiting for the keeper to tip tap it about with them.
Playing out I get “IF” you have the talent to do it, but why must it be so contrived. It’s almost like the new set piece.
Yeah, anybody who thinks that the Buckley way involved Sherwood, lever and McDermott playing triangles 10 yards from goal whilst Buckley sat beaming about it is deluded.
In his most recent Guardian article, he wrote that running a football club wasn’t like running a normal business. If there’s one thing he should have learned from Fenty, that was it. You need to keep your customers. To do that, you need to keep them happy.
One or several on here far more unhappy than I’ve ever known.
That’s the weird thing though, people are still turning up - for now at least.
I really like JS & will always be grateful for what he & AP have done, but I do wonder in the summer if we’ll see a Guardian article about the over reliance on data in lower league football and that it contributed to us losing our league status.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
I think the owners have got this one wrong , it happens and sometimes it just doesn't work out .
Now for me the biggest question is how many hammerings at home do we take before they say hang on we got it wrong and they sack him ? Or do they refuse to admit its not working and they hang fire hope it clicks ?
I just have this feeling it's not a match for us . It's ok it happens in football but IF we stick with him it's only gonna end one way.
We accept defeat when we put it all in , yesterday was a mix of shite quality and lack of desire. We won't accept that.
For me he's got next week to turn it around, two massive games against teams right next to us playing as badly or worse than us - one home one away. Normally you'd say two at home is better but in this case Artell thinks we're better away cos we don't have fan pressure on the players. Let's see him prove that right and go and smash Colchester boot boys the Cowley's then, and then use that confidence and belief to do the same to Donny at home.
On the other hand two defeats and it's deep deep shite time and surely game over for Artell even considering the huge cost to get rid - getting relegated will cost more.
I think the owners have got this one wrong , it happens and sometimes it just doesn't work out .
Now for me the biggest question is how many hammerings at home do we take before they say hang on we got it wrong and they sack him ? Or do they refuse to admit its not working and they hang fire hope it clicks ?
I just have this feeling it's not a match for us . It's ok it happens in football but IF we stick with him it's only gonna end one way.
We accept defeat when we put it all in , yesterday was a mix of shite quality and lack of desire. We won't accept that.
Over to the owners
The lack of desire has been evident all season and I'm sorry to have to say it again but data led recruitment will not result in the right mix of characters and leaders to get the right blend in a team.
Premier league teams lose millions of pounds on players that don't fit despite having the best data and data analysts money can buy.
If we, for our level, have invested heavily in it there is obviously an obligation to use it come what may and is this a contributing reason Hurst assembled the most un Hurst like squad ever?
I think the owners have got this one wrong , it happens and sometimes it just doesn't work out .
Now for me the biggest question is how many hammerings at home do we take before they say hang on we got it wrong and they sack him ? Or do they refuse to admit its not working and they hang fire hope it clicks ?
I just have this feeling it's not a match for us . It's ok it happens in football but IF we stick with him it's only gonna end one way.
We accept defeat when we put it all in , yesterday was a mix of shite quality and lack of desire. We won't accept that.
Over to the owners
Think you’re bang on here.
On the day we came back up referencing relegation to the NL JS said “that can never be allowed to happen again”.
If he & AP doesn’t know already this time next week they may well have a decision to make to prevent it happening again.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Remember when he arrived and Artell said he would be watching the first half from the stands to get a better view, then it became well maybe the first game or two he wouldn't whilst he got his message across. How many games into his tenure are we now? He is still on the sidelines like every other manager balling at the players. It's going badly wrong very quickly.
I have been told that there is an analyst on the TV gantry in Young's Stand who has a live feed to the bench. From where I sit in The Upper Youngs you can see him.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
For me he's got next week to turn it around, two massive games against teams right next to us playing as badly or worse than us - one home one away. Normally you'd say two at home is better but in this case Artell thinks we're better away cos we don't have fan pressure on the players. Let's see him prove that right and go and smash Colchester boot boys the Cowley's then, and then use that confidence and belief to do the same to Donny at home.
On the other hand two defeats and it's deep deep shite time and surely game over for Artell even considering the huge cost to get rid - getting relegated will cost more.
The reason are away form is better is we have only played one away game this year
I have been told that there is an analyst on the TV gantry in Young's Stand who has a live feed to the bench. From where I sit in The Upper Youngs you can see him.
Yeah but I am sure he would have been aware of having that option when he arrived but he said he wanted to see it for himself. I think he is having to do a lot more coaching from the sidelines of the way he wants to play than he expected. Certainly in Saturday he wanted to be able to bawl at players when they didn't fanny about with it at the back like he wants.
He has only ever previously managed at Crewe where players are taught this way of playing since practically being in the womb, I don't think he understood how much of a change this is for your typical league 2 player. He's finding out he needs to be a lot more hands on than he expected as this transition is far more difficult than he anticipated.
Regarding what you say in the last paragraph Toontown - that is exactly correct. BUT I can remember in the 90's watching two teenage Alex fullbacks and a teenage centre half passing the ball across the back between themselves and along with everyone else pooing myself and expecting an interception. Often, that was exactly what happened. This way of playing wasnt even fashionable then. Some of those lads had been there since they were 6 years old. The Alex still struggled at the bottom just managing to avoid getting dumped out for years. This is what your Management have signed up for. Thats why I said elsewhere that you need patience (and two pairs of underpants). Eventually, although the fear never goes away, the occasional spell of Brazil style passing footbal by other teenagers makes you feel a bit better about it. It still happens today at Gresty Road and will continue -because as soon as they reach a required standard they have to be sold on. I dont know what you can do about it. If they were any good would they be playing for Grimbo?
Been thinking about this for a bit, under Buckley we possibly played the best football in the clubs post war history for a sustained period.
I can’t remember 2 CHs stood on the edge of the 6 yard box at goal kicks waiting for the keeper to tip tap it about with them.
Playing out I get “IF” you have the talent to do it, but why must it be so contrived. It’s almost like the new set piece.
In all 3 Buckley spells, the rules at goal kicks were different to the rule we have today. The ball had to leave the 18 yard box so short goal kicks were even more susceptible to a press. It's a shame that Buckley isn't the expert summariser on RH anymore, I would love to know what he thinks of what Artell is serving up.
In all 3 Buckley spells, the rules at goal kicks were different to the rule we have today. The ball had to leave the 18 yard box so short goal kicks were even more susceptible to a press. It's a shame that Buckley isn't the expert summariser on RH anymore, I would love to know what he thinks of what Artell is serving up.
That’s a fair point, but I think my point was more about playing out being contrived and like a set piece.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
In all 3 Buckley spells, the rules at goal kicks were different to the rule we have today. The ball had to leave the 18 yard box so short goal kicks were even more susceptible to a press. It's a shame that Buckley isn't the expert summariser on RH anymore, I would love to know what he thinks of what Artell is serving up.
If I remember Buckley's third spell even he gave up playing the Grimsby Way and played a more pragmatic approach. The game has changed in many ways since the late 80s and 90s. Most teams played 4-4-2 and there was just 1 substitute. There have been rule changes, players are fitter, there are lots more substitutions and tactics have improved. Squads change much more rapidly as well.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Thursday just gone marked 20 years to the day since a humiliating 6-0 defeat at Oldham Athletic. Which of course means Friday just gone marked 20 years to the day since Paul Groves was sacked as Grimsby Town manager.
I bring it up as Groves' "permenant" successor (albeit on a contract to the end of the season) would be Nicky Law. His spell as Town manager has gone down in infamy and he's widely regarded as the worst manager in the club's history.
Nicky Law managed just 12 league games as Grimsby manager. His record was as follows...
Played 12 Won 3 (25%) Drew 2 Lost 7 GD -10 (-0.833 per game) Pts 11 (0.917 per game)
David Artell will have his 12th league game as Head Coach on Tuesday (if he isn't sacked tomorrow) and his record after 11 matches is...
Played 11 Won 2 (18%) Drew 4 Lost 5 GD -7 (-0.636 per game) Pts 10 (0.909 per game)
Thursday just gone marked 20 years to the day since a humiliating 6-0 defeat at Oldham Athletic. Which of course means Friday just gone marked 20 years to the day since Paul Groves was sacked as Grimsby Town manager.
I bring it up as Groves' "permenant" successor (albeit on a contract to the end of the season) would be Nicky Law. His spell as Town manager has gone down in infamy and he's widely regarded as the worst manager in the club's history.
Nicky Law managed just 12 league games as Grimsby manager. His record was as follows...
Played 12 Won 3 (25%) Drew 2 Lost 7 GD -10 (-0.833 per game) Pts 11 (0.917 per game)
David Artell will have his 12th league game as Head Coach on Tuesday (if he isn't sacked tomorrow) and his record after 11 matches is...
Played 11 Won 2 (18%) Drew 4 Lost 5 GD -7 (-0.636 per game) Pts 10 (0.909 per game)
That is the level of failure we are dealing with.
Bloody Hell 😬
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Thursday just gone marked 20 years to the day since a humiliating 6-0 defeat at Oldham Athletic. Which of course means Friday just gone marked 20 years to the day since Paul Groves was sacked as Grimsby Town manager.
I bring it up as Groves' "permenant" successor (albeit on a contract to the end of the season) would be Nicky Law. His spell as Town manager has gone down in infamy and he's widely regarded as the worst manager in the club's history.
Nicky Law managed just 12 league games as Grimsby manager. His record was as follows...
Played 12 Won 3 (25%) Drew 2 Lost 7 GD -10 (-0.833 per game) Pts 11 (0.917 per game)
David Artell will have his 12th league game as Head Coach on Tuesday (if he isn't sacked tomorrow) and his record after 11 matches is...
Played 11 Won 2 (18%) Drew 4 Lost 5 GD -7 (-0.636 per game) Pts 10 (0.909 per game)
That is the level of failure we are dealing with.
I would love it if RH put that statistic to him after the game on Tuesday if we don't win.
Thursday just gone marked 20 years to the day since a humiliating 6-0 defeat at Oldham Athletic. Which of course means Friday just gone marked 20 years to the day since Paul Groves was sacked as Grimsby Town manager.
I bring it up as Groves' "permenant" successor (albeit on a contract to the end of the season) would be Nicky Law. His spell as Town manager has gone down in infamy and he's widely regarded as the worst manager in the club's history.
Nicky Law managed just 12 league games as Grimsby manager. His record was as follows...
Played 12 Won 3 (25%) Drew 2 Lost 7 GD -10 (-0.833 per game) Pts 11 (0.917 per game)
David Artell will have his 12th league game as Head Coach on Tuesday (if he isn't sacked tomorrow) and his record after 11 matches is...
Played 11 Won 2 (18%) Drew 4 Lost 5 GD -7 (-0.636 per game) Pts 10 (0.909 per game)
That is the level of failure we are dealing with.
Hadn't realised it was that bad. How does he compare to the last 11 games of Holloway and Hurst out of interest?
Oh do give up on this narrative, Pearson and Davis aren't and never were the answer, they couldn't even beat a FGR team that were leaking goals for fun and struggled against a bunch of tinker, tailors and candlestick makers
I know it's hypothetical but if they carried on with their points per game ratio we could be on 36 points at this moment . And that's without the advantage of a transfer window , putting us 14 points ahead of Sutton and 16 ahead of FGR . I'm not against Artell and what he is trying to do , I hope he succeeds for all our sakes but half way through a season ,near the bottom of the league is not the right time to be experimenting . This is why I think Shaun and Ben should have been given the rest of the season .
I'm worried not only about his record but the fact we haven't got the defenders especially to play his way , we see it why cant he is my point , stockport manager post match said we watched video & new we could set traps for them to fall in our lap , we make it easy & once we go behind heads drop & too easy to beat
Thursday just gone marked 20 years to the day since a humiliating 6-0 defeat at Oldham Athletic. Which of course means Friday just gone marked 20 years to the day since Paul Groves was sacked as Grimsby Town manager.
I bring it up as Groves' "permenant" successor (albeit on a contract to the end of the season) would be Nicky Law. His spell as Town manager has gone down in infamy and he's widely regarded as the worst manager in the club's history.
Nicky Law managed just 12 league games as Grimsby manager. His record was as follows...
Played 12 Won 3 (25%) Drew 2 Lost 7 GD -10 (-0.833 per game) Pts 11 (0.917 per game)
David Artell will have his 12th league game as Head Coach on Tuesday (if he isn't sacked tomorrow) and his record after 11 matches is...
Played 11 Won 2 (18%) Drew 4 Lost 5 GD -7 (-0.636 per game) Pts 10 (0.909 per game)
That is the level of failure we are dealing with.
Personally, I’d say Law has got some competition for worst Town manager of all time, all from the last 20 years. Newell, Bignot, Slade (mkII) and Holloway all had their own unique brand of calamity and disaster. You could possibly make a case for Rodger and Woods, too, but I can’t quite bring myself to include them alongside those charlatans.
Ultimately, there are a few common symptoms that start to appear when you’ve got someone really bad in the dugout, or at least someone heading for an inevitable sacking.
Heavy, virtually uncontested defeats
Shipping goals for fun
Conceding regular, calamitous goals
No system / system blatantly not working
Players apparently not playing for the manager
Bizarre manager interviews
Wild indiscipline
Honestly, of the above, it’s only really the last one you can argue we’re not seeing. Yet. The first-half yesterday just felt like the kind of performance you tend to get in the dying embers of a manager’s tenure. As others have said, it wasn’t so much the result, but the manner of it. It had just so many hallmarks of a team in a tailspin.
JS & AP are in a bit of a sticky wicket here. Having to sack Artell so early into his time here would be a bit embarrassing for them, as their first official managerial hire. But it goes without saying that going down would be magnitudes more damaging.
I don’t think Artell will go with defeat against Colchester, just as Hurst didn’t despite an absolutely appalling result and performance. But lose to Colchester and Donny, and it’d be hard to make a case for the bloke. His win rate already stands at 16.7%. Failure to win any of the next two takes it to 14.3%, and not many managers can sustain that kind of form over a period equivalent to almost a third of a season.
I’d love Artell to turn this around, because that would mean we’re safe, and I do at least like the general idea of what he’s trying to do (even if the current execution of it is shocking), but the signs don’t look good, going off past experience.
All that said, a win on Tuesday alters the complexion of things entirely. I’m just running short on confidence after yesterday.
Personally, I’d say Law has got some competition for worst Town manager of all time, all from the last 20 years. Newell, Bignot, Slade (mkII) and Holloway all had their own unique brand of calamity and disaster. You could possibly make a case for Rodger and Woods, too, but I can’t quite bring myself to include them alongside those charlatans.
Ultimately, there are a few common symptoms that start to appear when you’ve got someone really bad in the dugout, or at least someone heading for an inevitable sacking.
Heavy, virtually uncontested defeats
Shipping goals for fun
Conceding regular, calamitous goals
No system / system blatantly not working
Players apparently not playing for the manager
Bizarre manager interviews
Wild indiscipline
Honestly, of the above, it’s only really the last one you can argue we’re not seeing. Yet. The first-half yesterday just felt like the kind of performance you tend to get in the dying embers of a manager’s tenure. As others have said, it wasn’t so much the result, but the manner of it. It had just so many hallmarks of a team in a tailspin.
JS & AP are in a bit of a sticky wicket here. Having to sack Artell so early into his time here would be a bit embarrassing for them, as their first official managerial hire. But it goes without saying that going down would be magnitudes more damaging.
I don’t think Artell will go with defeat against Colchester, just as Hurst didn’t despite an absolutely appalling result and performance. But lose to Colchester and Donny, and it’d be hard to make a case for the bloke. His win rate already stands at 16.7%. Failure to win any of the next two takes it to 14.3%, and not many managers can sustain that kind of form over a period equivalent to almost a third of a season.
I’d love Artell to turn this around, because that would mean we’re safe, and I do at least like the general idea of what he’s trying to do (even if the current execution of it is shocking), but the signs don’t look good, going off past experience.
All that said, a win on Tuesday alters the complexion of things entirely. I’m just running short on confidence after yesterday.
I’d love someone/anyone to turn it round. I know I keep banging on about it but we were great against Crewe and had apparently been pretty good against MK and Oxford. Since then? A win against a woeful Salford and a wild, emotional 10 goal thriller apart, it’s been pretty woeful. I hate to say it but something must have happened behind the scenes because we’ve gone backwards very quickly and the body language is appalling (particularly those who are forced to sit in the Main Stand watching).
Not defending Artell in the slightest, I wasnt enthused by his appointment and I wouldnt be fussed if we got rid, But the players, Rosey aside, are a flipping disgrace
They threw Hursty under the bus, and they’re doing the same here. Talentless and spineless. There is no leaders on that pitch. Just a bunch of going through the motions losers
If they showed some fight or pride, I’d give them some leeway, but we’ve seen time and time and time again this season, a lack of the bare minimum of effort and pride. They give up and heads go down faster than a Thai hooker.
Personally, I’d say Law has got some competition for worst Town manager of all time, all from the last 20 years. Newell, Bignot, Slade (mkII) and Holloway all had their own unique brand of calamity and disaster. You could possibly make a case for Rodger and Woods, too, but I can’t quite bring myself to include them alongside those charlatans.
Ultimately, there are a few common symptoms that start to appear when you’ve got someone really bad in the dugout, or at least someone heading for an inevitable sacking.
Heavy, virtually uncontested defeats
Shipping goals for fun
Conceding regular, calamitous goals
No system / system blatantly not working
Players apparently not playing for the manager
Bizarre manager interviews
Wild indiscipline
Honestly, of the above, it’s only really the last one you can argue we’re not seeing. Yet. The first-half yesterday just felt like the kind of performance you tend to get in the dying embers of a manager’s tenure. As others have said, it wasn’t so much the result, but the manner of it. It had just so many hallmarks of a team in a tailspin.
JS & AP are in a bit of a sticky wicket here. Having to sack Artell so early into his time here would be a bit embarrassing for them, as their first official managerial hire. But it goes without saying that going down would be magnitudes more damaging.
I don’t think Artell will go with defeat against Colchester, just as Hurst didn’t despite an absolutely appalling result and performance. But lose to Colchester and Donny, and it’d be hard to make a case for the bloke. His win rate already stands at 16.7%. Failure to win any of the next two takes it to 14.3%, and not many managers can sustain that kind of form over a period equivalent to almost a third of a season.
I’d love Artell to turn this around, because that would mean we’re safe, and I do at least like the general idea of what he’s trying to do (even if the current execution of it is shocking), but the signs don’t look good, going off past experience.
All that said, a win on Tuesday alters the complexion of things entirely. I’m just running short on confidence after yesterday.
Of course you should include Woods, he may be a nice bloke and great running youth teams but he was totally out of his depth running the first team and it was obvious before he was given the job permanently he would take us down.
Of course you should include Woods, he may be a nice bloke and great running youth teams but he was totally out of his depth running the first team and it was obvious before he was given the job permanently he would take us down.
Of course you should include Woods, he may be a nice bloke and great running youth teams but he was totally out of his depth running the first team and it was obvious before he was given the job permanently he would take us down.
Possibly, yeah. But I think he inherited a shít show even an experienced manager would have struggled to turn around; far worse than what Hurst found himself with at the end of 2020. When you listen to the candid accounts of the likes of Paul Linwood and Peter Sweeney, the state things were in was almost impossible to believe.
Players sinking beers on the way to training. The manager (Newell) ringing players midweek to find out what pub they were in so he could join them for a session. Conlon biting a live fish in half. Fúck me, I knew the lad who ran Conlon’s local pub at the time (The Owl, Rodley, for reference), and the stories I can’t repeat on here for mine and Rob’s sake.
Woods stopped the rot to a large extent that relegation season, but just couldn’t buy a win. He drew 16 of his 33 games, and won 5. Several of those draws involved late equalisers or late missed Town penalties. Fine margins shape the way that Woods will ultimately be remembered. His PPG in League Two was still comfortably higher than Artell’s as things stand. The margins have been nothing but fine with this 2024 Town team.
Not sure if this was posted anywhere on the fishy, but see it come up on twitter. I think someone else mentioned on here about Warnock saying about teams trying to play out from the back like Man City.
Not sure if this was posted anywhere on the fishy, but see it come up on twitter. I think someone else mentioned on here about Warnock saying about teams trying to play out from the back like Man City.
Tweet 1756598347148738733 will appear here...
The worst thing is, is that it’s like groundhog day. We’ve literally been through this during the Holloway Covid season. It cost us our EFL status.
I’m one of the few town fans who likes Warnock. He knows what he’s on about. Yes, he’s old school, but that’s what we need right now,
I also like Artell, and I’m desperate to see us succeed under him, but the fans weren’t wrong yesterday - you cannot play around with it at the back like that, it doesn’t work. Getting the keeper to lump it doesn’t result in immediate goals conceded. It’s not ideal, but that first goal yesterday killed us, and doesn’t happen if Cartwright gets rid.
This is undoubtedly regression in terms of modern football tactics, but most of our goals conceded recently have been avoidable.
Possibly, yeah. But I think he inherited a shít show even an experienced manager would have struggled to turn around; far worse than what Hurst found himself with at the end of 2020. When you listen to the candid accounts of the likes of Paul Linwood and Peter Sweeney, the state things were in was almost impossible to believe.
Players sinking beers on the way to training. The manager (Newell) ringing players midweek to find out what pub they were in so he could join them for a session. Conlon biting a live fish in half. Fúck me, I knew the lad who ran Conlon’s local pub at the time (The Owl, Rodley, for reference), and the stories I can’t repeat on here for mine and Rob’s sake.
Woods stopped the rot to a large extent that relegation season, but just couldn’t buy a win. He drew 16 of his 33 games, and won 5. Several of those draws involved late equalisers or late missed Town penalties. Fine margins shape the way that Woods will ultimately be remembered. His PPG in League Two was still comfortably higher than Artell’s as things stand. The margins have been nothing but fine with this 2024 Town team.
Yes they were a shower of excrement, but they needed someone to stand up to them unfortunately Woods wasn't that man.
Not sure if you can go back that far but I am sure I posted before he was given the job permanently that if he was given the job he would take us down.
The owners have to admit they have made a mistake and sack the bloke.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Today was it for me - firmly in the he must go camp now. You can’t keep conceding that many goals. We seem to have no solidity and teams like Donny who can barely score away from home put 5 past us - it’s pathetic.
The footballing gods have given us a massive gift with Sutton and FGR being so bad. We can resurrect this season still but Artell has to go and go now.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Get Artell out now and get a competent management team in straight away. No dithering about. The writing has been on the wall for some time now ref. DA and you should be prepared for more change. We need a manager who can stop this rot and tighten up at the back and get these players fighting for the club that pays them... DA has not only lost the fans, he has lost the players also.....
Has to go, preferably tonight but it won't be, lucky to get away with just 5 conceded against a team as terrible as Doncaster, who were as bad as us in the table before the game, says everything.
Embarrassing for the owners but not nearly as embarrassing and catastrophic as relegation. Anyone still deluded enough to argue we aren't in a relegation battle? Even David Brent-Artell has conceded defeat on that one, although to be fair he's got plenty of experience at that
Would bet plenty of those screaming to get Hurst out are now doing the same for Artell. As long as we stay up, he can stay to rebuild. Must admit though the fact we're touching cloth worries me. If we dip into the bottom two then it's time for the nuclear option.
Would bet plenty of those screaming to get Hurst out are now doing the same for Artell. As long as we stay up, he can stay to rebuild. Must admit though the fact we're touching cloth worries me. If we dip into the bottom two then it's time for the nuclear option.
Under Hurst we tended to lose by the odd goal. We have seen two of the heaviest home defeats in the club’s history within a few weeks. One again a team 5th bottom.
It seems as if we are a rudderless ship heading for the rocks. By some miracle we still have a 6 point cushion, and I think it makes sense to remove Artell now before that disappears completely.
We still have a chance to stay up, but not with this chaotic set up. Change might not save us, but persisting with Artell is a bigger risk.
The problem is we need a manager that will go back to basics in this situation, and he's not going to do it. That's why it's probably worth making a change.
Didn’t like him from day one. Reminds me of bosses I’ve had who were excrement but talked a good game. Alpha male pr*ck. It always end badly. Always arrogantly thinking their new way of thinking is brilliant In reality they’re thick as pig excrement.
Losing 5-1 against fifth bottom. We’re bottom of the form team. Pretty certain we’ll stay up if we get rid now pretty certain we won’t if we don’t get rid of him.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
It's looking like a repeat of the 2020-21 season. A manager gets sacked before Christmas leaving an under performing, unbalanced squad a few points above the relegation zone. A new manager comes in, signs a load of new players in the January window, but can't change the downward momentum quickly enough to save us. So the omens are not good. Right now we look very much like a team not good enough to survive in L2.
I think Hurst has to take a large chunk of the blame for this owing to his summer transfer dealings. Apart from Conteh and Rose the rest of the signings have been poor,
He left us with one poor and one inexperienced young goalkeeper. His defensive signing have proved pretty much disasterous. He left us well short of quality and creativity in midfield. Up front he left us basically dependent on one player. He let go a striker who is proving his goal scoring ability at Crawley. He signed players with chronic injury problems. All in all he left us with a very sub par squad.
That said, we at least manged to avoid the huge home defeats we have seen in the last few weeks. Bad though we were under Hurst, it seems we are even worse now. The team selection, tactics, substitutions and general game plans seems utterly chaotic.
It sounds crazy to be thinking about changing managers again so soon. But right now it seems the team are totally clueless and apparently confused.
I think it calls for an entirely new mindset and I have no confidence that Artell can deliver it..
He has to go. You can’t be conceding so many soft goals like we are and continue in the job. There’s no organisation and no fight in this team. Whatever happens it will be expensive but we can either:
1) Go down with Artell in charge and then sack him. 2) Sack him now and get someone else in. We’re insanely lucky the bottom two are shite but they will each get 6 points and I can’t see where our next win is coming from under Artell. Someone else may cobble enough together so we avoid the trapdoor.
Bitterly disappointed in how this season has turned out. Really makes you question what is the point.
He has to go. You can’t be conceding so many soft goals like we are and continue in the job. There’s no organisation and no fight in this team. Whatever happens it will be expensive but we can either:
1) Go down with Artell in charge and then sack him. 2) Sack him now and get someone else in. We’re insanely lucky the bottom two are shite but they will each get 6 points and I can’t see where our next win is coming from under Artell. Someone else may cobble enough together so we avoid the trapdoor.
Bitterly disappointed in how this season has turned out. Really
Imakes you question what is the point.
The big problem is for this to happen, the owners have to accept responsibility for the initial appointment. Would they? Can they? Football clubs aren’t numbers on a spreadsheet, relegation out of the FL isn’t data that can be analysed and learnt from. You avoid it like the plague.
I was there, the day Bradley Wood scored a 35 yarder!
From the black and white striped shirts To the fish in the sea You'll hear us singing Coz we are Grimsby.
You won't hear us crying But you'll hear us shout Coz we are the Grimsby And this is our chant.......... Grimsby! Grimsby! Grimsby!
It’s like under Woods we could never win just the odd draw and defeats slowly dropping down the league. If sutton or fgr had any form thy would be above us.
This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.
Site Home
News
Football
Season
Database
Club
POM
Contact
Home
Calendar
Search
Register
Login
davmariner
Hagrid
LezpV0rBMZDtQRITQ~~_35.JPG)
Logged
. 
WLLW - ended
