To All Who Think Paul Hurst Should Go

Quoted from Maringer

Well, no. But that doesn't necessarily indicate that Ten Hag is blameless are regards their current poor form.

I'm always somewhat wary about a manager who picks out and criticises individual players in the media and that is definitely one of his traits.

Regardless of the cause of their current problems, I'm sure we can all agree it is pretty amusing.  

There is something enjoyable seeing the difficulties the top 6 face from time to time. I don't have a Prem team that I follow but I try to watch a bit of it when I can and currently I love what Brighton are doing.

I think with Ten Hag there are some parallels with PH and GTFC, obviously on a much different scale. Ten Hag clearly demands a certain standard of person as well as footballer and isn't afraid to make decisions despite popular opinion/backlash. Given the wages Uniteds players are on and the huge size of the club and staff, trying to change an entire culture and ethos won't happen overnight and you'll upset people on the way. But that's his job. If players on £150,000+ a week aren't happy being told by their boss that they could/should be working harder then in my book they aren't deserving of that level of earning and can get gone.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

There is something enjoyable seeing the difficulties the top 6 face from time to time. I don't have a Prem team that I follow but I try to watch a bit of it when I can and currently I love what Brighton are doing.

I think with Ten Hag there are some parallels with PH and GTFC, obviously on a much different scale. Ten Hag clearly demands a certain standard of person as well as footballer and isn't afraid to make decisions despite popular opinion/backlash. Given the wages Uniteds players are on and the huge size of the club and staff, trying to change an entire culture and ethos won't happen overnight and you'll upset people on the way. But that's his job. If players on £150,000+ a week aren't happy being told by their boss that they could/should be working harder then in my book they aren't deserving of that level of earning and can get gone.

Alternatively you could argue that character is not the most important thing when deciding whether to sign any footballer.

We are talking about young men in their prime who may have various temptations coming their way, and often they are not old enough to have real world experience in various things,  so they will make mistakes.

Sometimes you may get a real bad 'un but they can be quickly sidelined, but often young men make mistakes and learn from them whether they are footballers or trainee accountants.

The trouble arises for me when there are too many wrong uns in the same squad ala Newell and his players, but in normal situations the odd "character" can be accommodated if he has the skills the team needs.

If the new Gazza turns up I hope we sign him and don't fret too much about what his character is like.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Alternatively you could argue that character is not the most important thing when deciding whether to sign any footballer.

We are talking about young men in their prime who may have various temptations coming their way, and often they are not old enough to have real world experience in various things,  so they will make mistakes.

Sometimes you may get a real bad 'un but they can be quickly sidelined, but often young men make mistakes and learn from them whether they are footballers or trainee accountants.

The trouble arises for me when there are too many wrong uns in the same squad ala Newell and his players, but in normal situations the odd "character" can be accommodated if he has the skills the team needs.

If the new Gazza turns up I hope we sign him and don't fret too much about what his character is like.

But surely character plays a large part in how these young impressionable players react to the temptations they are exposed to? Character can also include dedication, resilience to peer pressure, focusing on the important things in life and thinking for one's self.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Alternatively you could argue that character is not the most important thing when deciding whether to sign any footballer.

We are talking about young men in their prime who may have various temptations coming their way, and often they are not old enough to have real world experience in various things,  so they will make mistakes.

Sometimes you may get a real bad 'un but they can be quickly sidelined, but often young men make mistakes and learn from them whether they are footballers or trainee accountants.

The trouble arises for me when there are too many wrong uns in the same squad ala Newell and his players, but in normal situations the odd "character" can be accommodated if he has the skills the team needs.

If the new Gazza turns up I hope we sign him and don't fret too much about what his character is like.

You could argue that and I don't think it's that unreasonable an argument either. Look closer to home and McAtee could easily be put in that bracket.

It's all dependant on the managers style and desire to win. Some would argue that you simply put the best footballers out on the pitch and let them do. With United they've bought players designed to achieve that over the years, Pogba, Ronaldo, Sancho etc. You can probably tell I'm skewing the argument one particular side, but they're good examples (Ronaldo and Pogba at least) of signing elite World Class players to win games and actually they're character and standards, coupled with their influence resulted in what appears to be a poor culture developing. Look at where they both are now and I think what Ten Hag could claim to be vindicated. Ronaldo went off to Saudi and the riches that offered him rather than continue to prove himself in Europe, and Pogba has barely played with 'injuries', but his reputation is certainly on the floor. You then have the knock ons from their influence like Lingard who is without a club and seems more interested in his YouTube/TikTok dance routines than playing.

Leads me to one of my favourite sayings:

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.

I think Rancido makes a very telling point. The elite level footballers are blessed with a talent that millions of people would die for and they make vast sums of money for being blessed with this talent. Like any person in any walk of life they should have some breathing space for being human and the mistakes that young people inevitably make when growing up. Unfortunately though, the talent and money comes at a price, that being they are public figures and role models for young people across the world. The magnitude of their mistakes has to be minimal and their commitment to high standards has to be apparent else it will be exposed by someone, whether that be fans, media or even your own manager. If their character is such that they blatantly disrespect their blessings (and hard work that they will have undoubtedly put in) then there's a queue of people waiting for their chance to prove themselves as worthy.

The problem with Sancho though is that he's not performed, and his attitude to training properly is almost certainly the reason why, but he won't accept that.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

You could argue that and I don't think it's that unreasonable an argument either. Look closer to home and McAtee could easily be put in that bracket.

It's all dependant on the managers style and desire to win. Some would argue that you simply put the best footballers out on the pitch and let them do. With United they've bought players designed to achieve that over the years, Pogba, Ronaldo, Sancho etc. You can probably tell I'm skewing the argument one particular side, but they're good examples (Ronaldo and Pogba at least) of signing elite World Class players to win games and actually they're character and standards, coupled with their influence resulted in what appears to be a poor culture developing. Look at where they both are now and I think what Ten Hag could claim to be vindicated. Ronaldo went off to Saudi and the riches that offered him rather than continue to prove himself in Europe, and Pogba has barely played with 'injuries', but his reputation is certainly on the floor. You then have the knock ons from their influence like Lingard who is without a club and seems more interested in his YouTube/TikTok dance routines than playing.

Leads me to one of my favourite sayings:

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.

I think Rancido makes a very telling point. The elite level footballers are blessed with a talent that millions of people would die for and they make vast sums of money for being blessed with this talent. Like any person in any walk of life they should have some breathing space for being human and the mistakes that young people inevitably make when growing up. Unfortunately though, the talent and money comes at a price, that being they are public figures and role models for young people across the world. The magnitude of their mistakes has to be minimal and their commitment to high standards has to be apparent else it will be exposed by someone, whether that be fans, media or even your own manager. If their character is such that they blatantly disrespect their blessings (and hard work that they will have undoubtedly put in) then there's a queue of people waiting for their chance to prove themselves as worthy.

Isn't our pool of players to choose from much more limited though?

Take our striker situation just as an example. Are we really going to turn down a striker who we can afford and who wants to come based on his character?

We have all worked with people who may not have had the values we would prefer, but sometimes they add to the dynamic of the group,  gives an edge to things.

Everything in life is a gamble of sorts, and even if you think someone would be a perfect fit they turn out the opposite and vice versa.

I've only just looked at this thread because I thought it would just anger me.

I was right, the premise of the discussion is ridiculous, frankly it appals me that it's even a conversation that the manager should go.

Let's just sack him and go back to the Conference shall we?

Strong language I know but I don't think some "fans" know how good we've actually got it with Hursty at present.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Isn't our pool of players to choose from much more limited though?

Take our striker situation just as an example. Are we really going to turn down a striker who we can afford and who wants to come based on his character?

We have all worked with people who may not have had the values we would prefer, but sometimes they add to the dynamic of the group,  gives an edge to things.

Everything in life is a gamble of sorts, and even if you think someone would be a perfect fit they turn out the opposite and vice versa.

Ah, so if we're talking solely Grimsby and not the wider implications of any club and 'challenging' characters then I suppose it has to be carefully considered and 'risks' taken into account.

If a player comes with a reputation within the professional game that they can be disruptive then I'm not taking that chance personally. It's a risk that threatens a group who are honest, hard working pro's. All it takes is one to 'get away' with things and others start to question and follow. If a player comes with a reputation as being a bit mischievous in his off-field antics but will give you everything and be a team-player at work then that's a 'risk' I'd take on and work with.

I would suspect that a lot is driven by what we don't see. I had a player play for me who was a talented kid that had sort of gone unnoticed as he was relatively new and not played to his strengths. He quickly realised he was a good player when pushed forward, developed a swagger about the place and wanted to do everything himself. He wouldn't listen to instruction and didn't believe the work we did at training was helping him. When we went from 9v9 to 11v11 and playing up a year he suddenly wasn't quite achieving as well as he thought he could and he become petulant and mardy but still wouldn't take anything on board. He went from being a joy to have in the team to being a pain in the bottom, even though he was still a talented player. Different levels and stages of the game but the sentiment is the same. When we question why PH won't play such and such, we don't see whether said player is following instruction, working hard in training and all other such things that will frustrate a manager. We then blame the manager for not playing someone we like but we're not aware he's basically a tw@t behind the scenes. Jordan Maguire-Drew strikes me as a possible example, perhaps proven by the fact he's now plying his trade in NLS.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Isn't our pool of players to choose from much more limited though?

Take our striker situation just as an example. Are we really going to turn down a striker who we can afford and who wants to come based on his character?

We have all worked with people who may not have had the values we would prefer, but sometimes they add to the dynamic of the group,  gives an edge to things.

Everything in life is a gamble of sorts, and even if you think someone would be a perfect fit they turn out the opposite and vice versa.

I get the sense that you think PH is more strict re: character than he probably is. I don't think he's probably that fussed if a player is "a bit of a lad" and has missed training a few times in the past. When he talks about this, he's probably just saying that he's checked with other people who hjave worked with the player before to try to make sure they are not a complete nightmare, and have a very disruptive effect on the squad if they are not getting a game etc.  

He shown in the past that he's willing to take a risk on such players, on a short term basis, and thank god they were short term. He's just not prepared to offer long contracts to anyone, if he knows from his contacts that have dealt with the player before that they are bad news. That's a good thing in my book.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Holloway’s points were boosted by wins so dismiss that .
Yes we were above the relegation zone when Holloway left but let’s ignore that.
Yes Hurst points per game were worse then Holloway’s but let’s ignore that.
Yes Hurst brought in 11 or 12 of his own players but let’s ignore that.
The football under Hurst was so much better!!

I did say once Hurst's team gelled...but let's ignore that.

Quoted from HerveJosse

And you think there is a cult in Scunthorpe!

Well done, it takes a special kind of comment to standout as OTT on The Fishy so fair play on that one pal.