To All Who Think Paul Hurst Should Go

Concerning thing for me is the goals against. Hurst is naturally a cautious manager which is fine if you're keeping goals out at the other end, but we've conceded three in a third of our games.

Quoted from fishboyUTM

Only proves it's a load of nonsense seeing as we didn't even have a shot on goal in the second half. Against a very poor side that will plummet down the league any time soon IMO.

Only proves you weren't watching the match or left early. In the second half Clifton went through on goal only to weakly hit a tame effort at the keeper (0.18 xG) and Rodgers missed a massive opportunity from about 5 yards out on 90+8 (0.55 xG). xG also counts efforts which aren't on target which players should have done better with, of which there were many examples in the first half.

Our xG overall was so high because of that missed Rodgers chance and Holohan's goal from about 6cm out with no defenders anywhere near him had an xG of 0.99 (ie. flipping impossible not to score).

Quoted from Chrisblor

Only proves you weren't watching the match or left early. In the second half Clifton went through on goal only to weakly hit a tame effort at the keeper (0.18 xG) and Rodgers missed a massive opportunity from about 5 yards out on 90+8 (0.55 xG). xG also counts efforts which aren't on target which players should have done better with, of which there were many examples in the first half.

Our xG overall was so high because of that missed Rodgers chance and Holohan's goal from about 6cm out with no defenders anywhere near him had an xG of 0.99 (ie. flipping impossible not to score).

We are on the opposite side of the argument on these (in my eyes) waste of times stats, but can you explain why they have any relevance?

I've seen one or two fans celebrating the fact that we were,  together with Plymouth who won handsomely,  top of the xg charts this weekend.

The weekend has gone, the next match will be a completely different set of circumstances that bear no relation whatsoever to last weekend, so what is there to learn or celebrate?

Quoted from Mariner93er

Concerning thing for me is the goals against. Hurst is naturally a cautious manager which is fine if you're keeping goals out at the other end, but we've conceded three in a third of our games.

And I’m presuming that by ‘3” you mean ‘at least 3’.
That’s a very strong point and a bit of a concern. A third of our games! 😐

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We are on the opposite side of the argument on these (in my eyes) waste of times stats, but can you explain why they have any relevance?

I've seen one or two fans celebrating the fact that we were,  together with Plymouth who won handsomely,  top of the xg charts this weekend.

The weekend has gone, the next match will be a completely different set of circumstances that bear no relation whatsoever to last weekend, so what is there to learn or celebrate?

Let's hope it's a win.

Quoted from Ruston AT

Agree with the above statement but, thinking about every thing that is going on at GTFC let me put this point. Our coaching staff is basically  defensive personnel....think about it, who in the coaching staff has a forward looking idea? That's why we are difficult to beat, I love watching Doig comes off the bench snarling at the team but when Croudson does it I'm thinking 'what the ***k '. Maybe an attacking staff member is the way forward.
I've got my hard hat on ready for the abuse.

Seen someone reference how nice the attacking football at Gateshead was and the 37 passes before the ball hit the net. Mike Williamson - the gaffer - was a defender. Alan Shearer, the best striker in Premier League history, amassed 4 goals in his 8 game spell. I'll take the absence of longevity with Shearers reign but we need to get rid of this notion that defenders are defensive coaches and attackers are attacking coaches. Every coach will see the game as a whole with holistic ideas, the logic does not equate to "attacking player = attacking coach" and vice versa.

Quoted from denni266

It will never change under hurst. He is too set in wanting  to defend first second and third. even playes a wingback as no9. Keep doing the same and you will get the same outcome .. Twice most have said we are safe from the big drop and twice it has happened.. Third time on the horizon

Pyke is a striker. He was utilised as a winger and wing-back last season but he has always been a striker. Sam Rickets signed him at Shrewbury as a striker alongside Leon Clarke. It's a common argument that is misguided and using how he was played last season as the basis for supposedly an entire career. Discuss to your hearts content whether he's a good striker or not but that has been his primary position for all bar one season of his career.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Pyke is a striker. He was utilised as a winger and wing-back last season but he has always been a striker. Sam Rickets signed him at Shrewbury as a striker alongside Leon Clarke. It's a common argument that is misguided and using how he was played last season as the basis for supposedly an entire career. Discuss to your hearts content whether he's a good striker or not but that has been his primary position for all bar one season of his career.

That's even more concerning!

To be fair he did have a better second half but for a striker to miss that first half chance with Crawley seemingly gifting us chances was ridiculous.

We could talk endlessly about individual strikers but in this team any striker will struggle with our formation. Without Eisa's great start, welcome though it is, we would be in serious trouble already.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We are on the opposite side of the argument on these (in my eyes) waste of times stats, but can you explain why they have any relevance?

I've seen one or two fans celebrating the fact that we were,  together with Plymouth who won handsomely,  top of the xg charts this weekend.

The weekend has gone, the next match will be a completely different set of circumstances that bear no relation whatsoever to last weekend, so what is there to learn or celebrate?

In which case the result has been and gone and therefore we stop discussing it, the managers position shouldn't be called into question and we simply look forward to the next game.

We as the simpletons sat in the ground watching the game take our basis of the score and whether we enjoyed the game. We don't calculate stats, they don't factor into our 90 minute experience, we just judge it on how it looks and the end result. We then use this to determine whether we're any good, where we'll finish in the league and whether the manager should stay/go. All of this just based on our own personal assessment.

For those who are actually in the game and who are responsible for delivering results and factor in everything about the game, stats give them more rational information. I've not read any stats because I'm not in the pro game so they don't have my interest level, but as an example, apparently we're boring and don't create a lot. Stats might tell us that we have more entries into the final third per 90 minutes than x other teams. We might have more shots than x teams. There are that many stats that provide an indication of what is actually happening that give the management team the basis to know whether we're on the right course and it's down to player error/quality issues, or that the system is failing.

I know the argument will be "well we can all see that from the sides", but the truth is we don't. No-one is counting how many times we entered the final third, no is counting the shots, we simply watch and decide whether we felt it was good enough. As we've identified in this thread, some people like the nature of our game, some don't. Everyone will wish we'd amassed a few more points and a few more goals but no-one bases their judgements on stats from the stands but stats can provide a picture that how we play is not the issue, but individual errors within how we play are skewing the outcome. This then shifts the problem from being a tactical issue to a player issue and the need to go shopping.

For xG, if we are constantly higher than what we actually score than that suggests we need better finishers. Not the best example of hidden information because I agree that is one that can be seen more readily on the eye, but it provides the picture that creating is not the issue but finishing. If we're scoring more than our xG then it says we're riding our luck and changes to our system are needed.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Only proves you weren't watching the match or left early. In the second half Clifton went through on goal only to weakly hit a tame effort at the keeper (0.18 xG) and Rodgers missed a massive opportunity from about 5 yards out on 90+8 (0.55 xG). xG also counts efforts which aren't on target which players should have done better with, of which there were many examples in the first half.

Our xG overall was so high because of that missed Rodgers chance and Holohan's goal from about 6cm out with no defenders anywhere near him had an xG of 0.99 (ie. flipping impossible not to score).

Presumambly the xG for Pykes miss was .999999?