Hurst Out

Quoted from Mariner93er

This is quite a unique situation. If this was a new manager who hadn’t been with us previously, I’d be inclined to give them more time. The start of this season would give me enough encouragement.

But it isn’t, it’s a manager we’re all very familiar with. And if I’m being honest, the idea of building something long term under hurst doesn’t excite me. We had it for 5+ plus years and I don’t really want to do it again.

Plus there’s other worrying factors. One Hursts overall managerial performance is staggeringly bad over his last 100 games. It isn’t simply a matter of turning around our form, but his overall managerial form spanning 3 clubs.

]The most worrying thing for me is how good we were at the beginning. There’s no denying it was very un-Hurst. If you’d asked me what kind of football I’d expect at the beginning of the season, it wouldn’t have been that. In fact, it would be exactly what we’re being served up right now. Pragmatic, boring football. There’s been a lot of discussion about why our form has dipped, but the style of play is the obvious thing. And it has all the hallmarks of Hurst. A lack of movement, trying to keep shape to the detriment of attacking fluidity. It really does feel like Hurst has coached the attacking intent out of the team because as soon as we lose, his defensive mentality kicks in.

I struggle to see how he turns this around.

We were very good at the beginning and I put this down to the team not being fully gelled into Hursts brand of one dimentional boring no plan B and playing with some freedom and creativity.

Quoted from chaos33

Aren’t our next two games Wrexham away and Wealdstone at home? I can understand that defeat against Wrexham on Tuesday looks likely, although by no means a certainty, but we would surely be expected to beat Wealdstone at home, so I’m not sure how we should expect things to be ‘much worse’ after the next two games.

My mistake I thought it was Wrexham and County  both away next.

Lets extend my point to the next three games  and we lose 2 from those 3 then we would be looking at 12 defeats from 16, that could be just 10 points from 48. That's abject. I suppose we could win at three but at what point do we say enough is enough.

We're talking about a run here which is the equivalent of a third of a season.

5 chances to score in the 1st half, only 1 taken.

No one on the back post at a corner - elementary error !

Loss of the right winger and goal scorer at half time - not good !

McAtee not in his prime position in the 2nd half, so a loss of normal harassing and space up front.

Would Souza have been a better option down the right hand side instead?

Hurst can't help the players once they are on the pitch, but he plans the team balance, which was not right in the 2nd half.

The 4th official must have earache from constant Bromley pressure, but games are won on the pitch, and Town looked to be bullied out of it by more physical players.

Another hard game after a long journey for Tuesday night against a strong promotion rival.

Everyone knew that we had a run of tough matches, but many expected a better set of results.

We need 6 to 9 points asap which would keep us in the race, but how are we going to get them at the moment?

I was happy to have Hurst back last season and don't think he could have done much more to keep us up, we were already fked from Holloway. I've given him the benefit of the doubt recently but can't defend our current run.

At the start of the season we played quick attacking football, the players were full of confidence and even when we went a goal down the team believed they could get back in the game. That spirit has only been seen in the first Halifax game.

Bromley's manager basically said they havn't got the resources or players we have but have got great team spirit. That's down to the manager. I think we've got a better squad than a lot of teams above us and Hurst has had enough time with them. He's always had the reputation of building teams with a great spirit but I don't see it with this lot. There certainly isn't the winning mentality we had at the start of the season.

Our form over the last 14 games is inexcusable. it's relegation form and we're going backwards. I'd get rid now before the play-offs are out of reach and the atmosphere turns toxic. The biggest issue though is who do you replace him with?

I like Hurst as an individual, I think he comes across as a decent bloke and human being.  

I want him to succeed here, I wanted him to keep us up last season and build something special here.

Early on in the season I felt confident I was in the right camp by having written off his role in the relegation and seeing he side he actually built (not whatever rag-tag side he could pull together) looking swashbuckling and entertaining.  

But now that initial early season form is a distant memory I'm really struggling to stay in the 'Hurst In' camp. Reluctantly I could accept a mid-season finish this season if it looked like something was getting built for the future.  

If there was a style we were developing or even the bedding in of players for next season and beyond it would make the shocking form less bitter.  But there isn't that.  We look more and more disjointed with each passing week.  Saturday we couldn't have looked less like a cohesive unit if we tried.  Second half especially it looked like players didn't know where to play or what was going on.  

I'm not all that bothered that the likes of Bapaga and Revan have gone back.  I'd have liked to have kept Hunt and whilst Towler looked quality, you can't really do anything about it when his parent club recall him.  I think the additions of Maguire-Drew and Abrahams are very decent, I think Abrahams will be a quality addition once he settles in.  But it's the lack of balance in the side.  Saturday was a shoe-horn job.  He wanted to play all 4 of Maguire-Drew, McAtee, Abrahams and Taylor.  So we had this kinda lop-sided effort going on that wasn't perfect but it was bringing a fair bit of joy down the right flank.   Then second half without Maguire-Drew he tried to beef out the middle which left both Abrahams and McAtee out of position and ineffectual, Taylor completely isolated and the midfield 3 not knowing who was doing what.

It feels like Hurst is trying to fit what he thinks are his best 11 players into a system.  You can't do that, not at any level.   Regardless of what 1878 are saying, I think he's teetering on the edge of the cliff.  The next 3 games are crucial, the first of which is against a moneybags XI with Ollie Palmer guaranteed to score at least once.

If Hurst wants to save his job, he needs to take it by the horns.  The problem is, I'm struggling to see as a fan how you pick the best system considering the imbalance in that squad.   McAtee and Maguire-Drew are our best players, yet if you play both of those you're limiting yourself to a 4-2-3-1 type system, which is fine but he has to then accept that one of Abrahams or Taylor can't play.  Forcing a striker onto the wing isn't what we need, especially when in Wright and Sousa there's two decent enough wingers on the bench.

In midfield he likes Fox and obviously likes the leadership qualities that Fox brings.  But together they're an awful pairing, far too negative and ineffectual.  Even if Clifton's brought in, he's not exactly attack minded.  Personally I'd drop both Fox and Coke, they've both looked average for too long.  

Just to add, it would be the most Hurst like thing ever to scrap a scruffy 1-0 win tonight.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I like Hurst as an individual, I think he comes across as a decent bloke and human being.  

I want him to succeed here, I wanted him to keep us up last season and build something special here.

Early on in the season I felt confident I was in the right camp by having written off his role in the relegation and seeing he side he actually built (not whatever rag-tag side he could pull together) looking swashbuckling and entertaining.  

But now that initial early season form is a distant memory I'm really struggling to stay in the 'Hurst In' camp. Reluctantly I could accept a mid-season finish this season if it looked like something was getting built for the future.  

If there was a style we were developing or even the bedding in of players for next season and beyond it would make the shocking form less bitter.  But there isn't that.  We look more and more disjointed with each passing week.  Saturday we couldn't have looked less like a cohesive unit if we tried.  Second half especially it looked like players didn't know where to play or what was going on.  

I'm not all that bothered that the likes of Bapaga and Revan have gone back.  I'd have liked to have kept Hunt and whilst Towler looked quality, you can't really do anything about it when his parent club recall him.  I think the additions of Maguire-Drew and Abrahams are very decent, I think Abrahams will be a quality addition once he settles in.  But it's the lack of balance in the side.  Saturday was a shoe-horn job.  He wanted to play all 4 of Maguire-Drew, McAtee, Abrahams and Taylor.  So we had this kinda lop-sided effort going on that wasn't perfect but it was bringing a fair bit of joy down the right flank.   Then second half without Maguire-Drew he tried to beef out the middle which left both Abrahams and McAtee out of position and ineffectual, Taylor completely isolated and the midfield 3 not knowing who was doing what.

It feels like Hurst is trying to fit what he thinks are his best 11 players into a system.  You can't do that, not at any level.   Regardless of what 1878 are saying, I think he's teetering on the edge of the cliff.  The next 3 games are crucial, the first of which is against a moneybags XI with Ollie Palmer guaranteed to score at least once.

If Hurst wants to save his job, he needs to take it by the horns.  The problem is, I'm struggling to see as a fan how you pick the best system considering the imbalance in that squad.   McAtee and Maguire-Drew are our best players, yet if you play both of those you're limiting yourself to a 4-2-3-1 type system, which is fine but he has to then accept that one of Abrahams or Taylor can't play.  Forcing a striker onto the wing isn't what we need, especially when in Wright and Sousa there's two decent enough wingers on the bench.

In midfield he likes Fox and obviously likes the leadership qualities that Fox brings.  But together they're an awful pairing, far too negative and ineffectual.  Even if Clifton's brought in, he's not exactly attack minded.  Personally I'd drop both Fox and Coke, they've both looked average for too long.  

Just to add, it would be the most Hurst like thing ever to scrap a scruffy 1-0 win tonight.

Couldn't have said it any better if I tried, other than Fox playing alongside Fox in the midfield 😉

Expectations change as the season gets underway and you see how your team actually performs. If our results were evenly spread out as opposed to loads of wins that put us top of the league followed by loads of losses then I think it would be ok.

I'm concerned about our recruitment and want to see a few more players tied down for next season to reassure me that this season has been the start of building something rather than a waste of time, effort and money. I keep harping on about it but Pettit told us that JMD was evidence we are building something and our January business will be focused on players that will be here next season. 5 in so far and not one of them is under contract for next season; although I would say we have a better chance of keeping Smith and Abrahams here next season than Towler and Hunt. Covid isn't an excuse because Pettit said it when Omicron was looking like grinding the country to a halt and wreaking havoc with the fixtures; which it's not doing now.

I accept that the market is tough out there but surely players should be chomping at the bit to have a bit of security and sign a longer deal than 6 months?

Ah yeah, bloody Coke not Fox!  

On the continuity point, I struggled to remember the last time we actually had a genuine season of building and then one where we improved the year after.  I had to go back as far as Slade's first spell.  Even then that was a season where the first year was very disjointed, lots of chopping and changing and then a fairly high turnover of players that season.

Of those that featured frequently in the unsuccessful challenge for promotion in 05/06 I can only really think of a handful that were there the previous season.  Justin Whittle, Rob Jones, John McDermott, Andy Parkinson and Michael Reddy.  Simon Ramsden and Martin Gritton were there the previous season but had limited roles before departing in the January window.

Anthony Williams, Ashely Sestanovich, Jason Crowe, Stacy Coldicott, Ronnie Bull, Terry Fleming, Thomas Pinault, Dean Gordon and Terrell Forbes all played in excess of 20 games that season (as did Gritton and Ramsden). That's 13 players who played a significant part the previous campaign but weren't retained.

Summer of 2005 Slade added Steve Mildenhall, JP Kalala, Paul Bolland, Gary Cohen, Ciaran Toner, Gary Croft, Tom Newey, Gary Jones and then Curtis Woodhouse, Junior Mendes and Ben Futcher in January.  11 in against the 13 out.  

It's not completely unrealistic to say that a good summer could see us transform.  History tells us that a couple of good additions change everything.  Are we a Steve Mildenhall, Gary Jones and Paul Bolland away from a very good side?  Probably not too far from the truth.  If we had a Rob Jones like transformation from one of our defenders and the unleashing of potential in a Michael Reddy style of someone else, would that transform things?  Without doubt.  

The problem is that there's a half a team there straight away that transformed the whole side.  You need a bloody good transfer window and some top quality coaching/stroke of luck to have that level of transformation.  Bolland was massive yet he was aided by the work alongside him first of Toner and Kalala and then Woodhouse.  The whole central midfield was changed and the impact as unbelievable on the whole of the team.  But in isolation it wasn't enough.  It was part of that spine.  Mildenhall was as important an addition as Rob Jones' transformation from Bambi on ice to an absolute rock, then up top Gary Jones brought everything together alongside Reddy who looked a completely different player altogether.  

Is Hurst capable of that level of transformation, in one transfer window?

Quoted from GrimRob

Have we got enough money for a competitive team though, if we had to buy even a handful of them? Be interesting to know what percentage of the war chest has been spent so far. If we're all but spent up then it is pretty depressing. It seems we're light-years away from the top teams in the division, how many players would teams like Stockport or Chesterfield even want of ours? Next season we will have substantially less money as well just to pile on the misery!

The comment was that they've already spent more on the playing side than they expected, but would make money available if Hurst identified the right players to improve things. Either Hurst is a masochist to not want to spend when we clearly needed others even when we were winning, or that statement wasn't all it seemed.

Shall we start a new thread or continue this one?

Just go Paul this was beyond ridiculous weeks ago