Brexit deal agreed

re: heat pumps - the house has to be a brand new house designed for being run using heat pumps in order to see the benefit and in this set-up they can be fantastic - more so ground source but you need a lot of spare ground to do that properly and currently everyone pushes air source because you can bang more plots in.

Retro -fitting is like buying an expensive new bucket with holes in.  There's also issues around what air source and ground source can realistically deliver above ground level, where they work best with underfloor heating, and quite a few installations still require a conventional natural gas boiler for upper floors.

Tbh, heat pumps are going to be forgotten in 10 years when hydrogen hits the market.  The next gen of boilers aren't being designed to be electric so the 2025/2030 plan to scrap gas boilers is nonsense, they are being designed to just remove the gas valve and control board and swap in hydrogen ready parts, then the generation after that will be hydrogen ready.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

re: heat pumps - the house has to be a brand new house designed for being run using heat pumps in order to see the benefit and in this set-up they can be fantastic - more so ground source but you need a lot of spare ground to do that properly and currently everyone pushes air source because you can bang more plots in.

Retro -fitting is like buying an expensive new bucket with holes in.  There's also issues around what air source and ground source can realistically deliver above ground level, where they work best with underfloor heating, and quite a few installations still require a conventional natural gas boiler for upper floors.

Tbh, heat pumps are going to be forgotten in 10 years when hydrogen hits the market.  The next gen of boilers aren't being designed to be electric so the 2025/2030 plan to scrap gas boilers is nonsense, they are being designed to just remove the gas valve and control board and swap in hydrogen ready parts, then the generation after that will be hydrogen ready.

Absolutely spot on, Hydrogen is the most sustainable option and billions are being invested into the infrastructure. Gas mains are being replaced at at rapid rate to allow 100% Hydrogen to flow throw the gas networks within the next 5-10 years. Check out the Ellesmere port hydrogen village project for anyone interested as to what the future will be.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

re: heat pumps - the house has to be a brand new house designed for being run using heat pumps in order to see the benefit and in this set-up they can be fantastic - more so ground source but you need a lot of spare ground to do that properly and currently everyone pushes air source because you can bang more plots in.

Retro -fitting is like buying an expensive new bucket with holes in.  There's also issues around what air source and ground source can realistically deliver above ground level, where they work best with underfloor heating, and quite a few installations still require a conventional natural gas boiler for upper floors.

Tbh, heat pumps are going to be forgotten in 10 years when hydrogen hits the market.  The next gen of boilers aren't being designed to be electric so the 2025/2030 plan to scrap gas boilers is nonsense, they are being designed to just remove the gas valve and control board and swap in hydrogen ready parts, then the generation after that will be hydrogen ready.

I think all new-build properties ought to be using ground source heat pumps where feasible (and spending a relatively tiny amount extra to improve the standard of the insulation in new housing is a no-brainer). However, I personally think that burning hydrogen directly in boilers to heat homes is way, way too risky. The molecules are so tiny that they can permeate through most pipework/joints and cause embrittlement in the process. The gas is also odourless (not sure of the feasibility of adding an odoir as with natural gas), add to that, a hydrogen flame is almost invisible and the explosion risk is too high.

Recent advances in efficiency of production (i.e. not just reformation from natural gas) make me think it will have a use as an energy storage medium (in specific situations) and perhaps as a fuel source for some vehicles, but this isn't something we want to be getting inside our houses.

I'll just add, my preference would be widespread use of nuclear power, alongside renewables, of course.

The use of expensive, untested designs such as the EPR were currently paying EDF an absolute mint to build (given then long-term pricing structure agreed) are better than nothing but, truthfully, we'd be better off building a load of older designs (if we still had the ability to do so) and investing the extra money in reprocessing and new reactor designs able to use the spent fuel.

Quoted from Maringer

I think all new-build properties ought to be using ground source heat pumps where feasible (and spending a relatively tiny amount extra to improve the standard of the insulation in new housing is a no-brainer). However, I personally think that burning hydrogen directly in boilers to heat homes is way, way too risky. The molecules are so tiny that they can permeate through most pipework/joints and cause embrittlement in the process. The gas is also odourless (not sure of the feasibility of adding an odoir as with natural gas), add to that, a hydrogen flame is almost invisible and the explosion risk is too high.

Recent advances in efficiency of production (i.e. not just reformation from natural gas) make me think it will have a use as an energy storage medium (in specific situations) and perhaps as a fuel source for some vehicles, but this isn't something we want to be getting inside our houses.

Yes up to 20% hydrogen in the mix for domestic gas supply is mooted, reduces carbon emissions by 20%. The hydrogen manufactured by the surplus renewable generation as an energy store will mainly be for industrial use - especially steel. Not sure it will save Scunthorpe works mind.

Thing is, we need to replace 100% of natural gas/fossil fuel usage to have a chance of reining in climate change. It's doable (steel can be produced using electricity and hydrogen, for example), but requires greater production of electricity. A moonshot/Manhattan Project sort of thing, but we're only tinkering around the edges and there's no evidence that anyone is really taking it seriously. Small Modular Reactors seem to be the likeliest route at present (though not perhaps the most efficient usage of resources), simply because it looks as though their use is going to be authorised relatively quickly. Still not going to be enough, however.

A moonshot on insulting housing obviously required as well and that's something which could be done within just a few years. No political will to do so from any of the major parties in this country though.

Astonishing….but should shut up humbercod and this new crank Grimpol….

From the horses mouth….

1. Liz Truss is correct, 2. Doesn’t seem factual. 3. Still crying about Brexit 😢 … feel for your family. You won’t shut me up!