Brexit deal agreed

I would like to see a political party's manifesto become a legal document enforced by law. That way they would have to do what they promised, but turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Quoted from codcheeky

I can’t see anyway Ed miliband was responsible for anything, or his election as leader. Perhaps you blame Labour for not winning but to blame them for 13 years of Tory policy is madness and exactly what the Tory press want you think.

The Tories have delivered 13 years of policies that have been disastrous for the majority in this country. But that is their nature. It’s like blaming foxes for eating your chickens. If the Labour Party had selected David Milliband as leader, it’s more likely that Labour would have won the 2015 election. I was being somewhat facetious with that comment  in that respect.

Now i'm just getting confused

Think I should just stick to the footy !

Quoted from Mappers

Now i'm just getting confused

Think I should just stick to the footy !

As a really young kid I asked my Mum about politics and this was her answer ‘ Labour try to make life better for ordinary people like us and the Tories just want to look out for themselves, keep the rich, rich and sodomist folk like us!’.

It’s stuck with me ever since.

Obviously that’s a very oversimplified and superficial answer catered for a child of 10/11 but over 30 years later it still holds water. You’ll find very convoluted and detailed analysis by people far cleverer than me about different parties but as a basic premise you can’t go far wrong with that!

Quoted from Mappers

Now i'm just getting confused

Think I should just stick to the footy !

No, please carry on posting on here. The more the better.

Sorry for talking in metaphors (or is allegories?).

I’m nearing my first bit of pension, for some public sector employment years ago. I can get a senior railcard as well. The last railcard I had was when I was a student. Michael Foot was the Labour leader. Whilst I supported most of his policies he was unelectable. In the 40+ years I’ve been voting, Labour has only had one winning leader. That leader (Blair) is much vilified. Parts of the intellectual left accuse Starmer of being a Tory with a red rosette on. I say bollox to that.  What the feck is the point in arguing about the specification and design of the chicken hut when all the while the foxes continue to eat the chicken. Ed Milliband was a decent leader, with some good policies but was never going to be a winner. Corbyn, and I agreed with a lot, but not all, of his policies was an absolute sitting duck for the Tory press and their 12 bores.

Perversely now I hope Starmer gives the Tory right some of their own medicine. Tell lies - lie about not taking us back into the Single Market and then do so. Bring in electoral reform, give the vote to 16 and 17 year olds and EU citizens with right to remain. They pay taxes, why shouldn’t they vote. Let my kids live their next 40 years ridiculing right wing swivel eyed Tories whilst the centre left holds a stranglehold on power.

By the way - if anyone wants to watch great drama that helps understand our political history try “Our Friends in the North”

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

. Parts of the intellectual left accuse Starmer of being a Tory with a red rosette on. I say bollox to that.  What the feck is the point in arguing about the specification and design of the chicken hut when all the while the foxes continue to eat the chicken.

What an utter load of shít, maybe all your metaphors and literary devices are there to hide the fact that you’re talking absolute rubbish?

This country is staring a second lost decade, in growth, wages, standards, etc., dead in the face because the economic system in this country is fundamentally flawed and there isn’t a single atom in Starmer’s body geared towards even acknowledging that, let alone changing it.

I was not a fan of David Miliband but you would expect he would have offered us continuity New Labour, which is a heck of a lot better than what we ended up with. Whether or not he'd have been any better than his brother as Labour leader or stood up better to the slurry of outright disinformation and outright propaganda published in the right-wing media, I don't know. The fact that Ed Miliband had a mild speech impediment and came across as more geeky probably lost a good few votes as much of the electorate isn't known for thinking clearly about who they vote for. I blame Balls most of all for throwing the 2015 election through the ineptitude of failing to push back against the lies promulgated about New Labour's spending causing the 2008 Global Financial Crisis! Idiocy.

Given his pronouncements so far, Starmer (following Reeves economic 'plans') is way, way to the right of Thatcher in most regards and miles to the right of Blair and Brown. So much so that, when he almost certainly wins power, he'll not achieve much at all and we'll probably see the Tories back in charge to finish off the job the following parliament.

Quoted from ska face

What an utter load of shít, maybe all your metaphors and literary devices are there to hide the fact that you’re talking absolute rubbish?

This country is staring a second lost decade, in growth, wages, standards, etc., dead in the face because the economic system in this country is fundamentally flawed and there isn’t a single atom in Starmer’s body geared towards even acknowledging that, let alone changing it.

FFS, I heard the same shite in Labour Party meetings in the mid-90s. “We don’t trust Blair blah blah blah”. They sat there complaining about him before the 97 election after 16 years of Tory rule.

The point is that Blair was way, way to the left of where we see Starmer standing now, and Labour PMs since the 70s have tended to drift rightward when in power. Economically speaking, Starmer and Reeves have clapped the shackles on themselves already with their nonsensical 'fiscal rules' so it will be impossible for them to turn the ship around following the wrecking we've seen since 2010. Starmer simply doesn't understand how the economy works and, unfortunately, he's reliant on Reeves to tell him what's what. She's useless - her BoE background just reinforces why the Bank has made such poor decisions in recent decades. If those in charge think like her (and they do), it's no wonder we're on the rocks without a lifeboat in sight. Even Balls had a bit more awareness and he was useless when push came to shove.

Blair was seriously flawed in many respects, but he (along with Brown) recognised that a lot more public spending would be required to fix the NHS and the other parts of the economy laid waste during the Thatcher/Major years. They spent the money to steady the ship (and not always wisely after continuing the wasteful PFI started under Major), but weren't brave enough to do the necessary things which would help return us to where we were during the post-war consensus - increase taxes, reduce inequality, take utilities back into public hands, try to deal with the broken housing market, etc etc etc. They were just following the neoliberal handbook on the assumption that it was the answer and it certainly wasn't. Thatcher famously said that Blair and New Labour were Thatcherism's greatest achievement. If I was the type of New Labourite currently pulling Starmer's strings, I'd be thinking about that very seriously. Unfortunately, they aren't because, what the New Labour years showed them, is that being in power is all that count, even if you don't achieve anything with it (other than personal benefit, of course). It means we've ended up with an empty shirt such as Starmer as head of the party when he doesn't really have a proper plan to improve things enough when he gets into power. I'm not encouraged by the fact that, unlike Blair, he hasn't even waited until he got into power before starting to break the promises made to Labour Party members when he was trying to become party leader.

Unfortunately, the failure of New Labour to do anything much more than tinker around the edges meant that it was incredibly easy for the Tories (and their inept backers the LibDems during the coalition years), to start to swing the wrecking ball once again and they've not stopped yet. Rocketing inequality, massive falls in living standards and the refrain that, 'We can't afford it', whenever something more than mildly left wing is suggested. Bevan achieved so much in one parliament and it worked so well that it was 30 years before the Tories made serious attempts to start to break down the post-war consensus. To do this, of course, they started with lies, blaming the Labour government for the energy crisis caused by conflict in the Middle East! Just like the Tories blamed New Labour spending for a global financial crisis!

On the assumption that Starmer wins power, in the following election, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will recycle this trick to distract from any gains made, however meagre they might be.

I've never been a member of a political party, but wouldn't touch Labour with a barge pole with this current bunch at the helm. Our broken electoral system means I'll have to vote for the Labour candidate if there is any hope of getting rid of the Tories, but I will have to pinch my nose to do so. And believe me I absolutely flipping hate the Tories. Not the disinterested Tory voter, who backs them because they believe the lies they are told or are alright Jack, but those who run the party for the benefit of the wealthy and think intercourse the rest of us.

Until we get politicians with the courage to stand up to the media narrative and back some solid reforms which would only need to put us back closer to the liberal social democracies we see in most of Europe, the only way is down. Probably down more slowly under a Starmer administration, but down nonetheless.

Quoted from DB

I would like to see a political party's manifesto become a legal document enforced by law. That way they would have to do what they promised, but turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

That is ok in principle, but governments also need to be agile in an uncertain global arena. Also, what would happen in a coalition where compromises are often needed?

If we ever get taken back into the EU, I imagine we would need to adopt the Euro within a few years.