The truth of hillsborough

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Have you actually watched the news today? You might have heard that the independent panel which has spend hundreds of hours reviewing all available evidence have said there is no evidence of large numbers of drunken, ticketless, violent fans. Even Cameron stated categorically that Liverpool fans were in no way at all responsible for what happened. This idea, which unbelievably you're still perpetuating, was effectively invented by South Yorkshire police to cover up their own culpability.

Again a question.  Would Cameron seriously blame the fans without evidence? Did he blame the police though?

Let me ask you a question, if a football stadium enclosure designed to hold 15,000 people had 15,000 people in it, would 96 of died?  Another question, did the police push the fans in from the outside?  Mistakes were made, that's obvious, but to suggest that the police were wholly to blame is ludicrous.

Quoted from ExLeightonMariner

No, money brings no-one back, neither does blame.

Agreed, but there is a law, and laws was broken, and not by the fans, but by the law enforcers themselves, as the evidance would sujest. So they need to be brought to justice (those responsible). There was negligens, conspiracy to cover ups for 23 years, and perverting the course of justice. Should these be dismissed, untrialed and unpunished, when others on less serious grounds, but would be prosecuted for the same crimes?

Quoted from I am Um Bongo

Oh look there goes ExLeightonMariner talking about money again.

Oh dear, is that another failed attempt at humour?  What next? Perhaps you'll be skippy the bush kangaroo's secret interpreter.  I guess you fall into the tiresome bore category?

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Agreed, but there is a law, and laws was broken, and not by the fans, but by the law enforcers themselves, as the evidance would sujest. So they need to be brought to justice (those responsible). There was negligens, conspiracy to cover ups for 23 years, and perverting the course of justice. Should these be dismissed, untrialed and unpunished, when others on less serious grounds, but would be prosecuted for the same crimes?

Yes, I agree.  If a crime has been committed then let the perpetrators be brought to justice.

Quoted from ExLeightonMariner

Oh dear, is that another failed attempt at humour?  What next? Perhaps you'll be skippy the bush kangaroo's secret interpreter.  I guess you fall into the tiresome bore category?

Hardly, you are the one who thinks money solves everything.

Losing an argument on a forum? Tell everyone how much you earn.

Families lose their relatives due to negligence? Throw some money at them.

You seem to be a very materialistic person, money doesn't solve everything.

Quoted from ExLeightonMariner

Again a question.  Would Cameron seriously blame the fans without evidence? Did he blame the police though?

Let me ask you a question, if a football stadium enclosure designed to hold 15,000 people had 15,000 people in it, would 96 of died?  Another question, did the police push the fans in from the outside?  Mistakes were made, that's obvious, but to suggest that the police were wholly to blame is ludicrous.

I agree, The blame shouldn't lay just at one set of peoples feet. There were lots of contributing factors but the police hiding thing certainly hasn't helped now.

Quoted from I am Um Bongo

Hardly, you are the one who thinks money solves everything.

Losing an argument on a forum? Tell everyone how much you earn.

Families lose their relatives due to negligence? Throw some money at them.

You seem to be a very materialistic person, money doesn't solve everything.

Sorry, how clumsy of me.  While contributing to a discussion I appear to have trodden on someone's ego.  To try and recover I'll disappear, come up with a really un-amusing facade and try desperately to stay in character in a vain attempt to be mr chat room popular.  Go away and bore someone else, this is a serious discussion.

Quoted from ExLeightonMariner

Again a question.  Would Cameron seriously blame the fans without evidence? Did he blame the police though?

Let me ask you a question, if a football stadium enclosure designed to hold 15,000 people had 15,000 people in it, would 96 of died?  Another question, did the police push the fans in from the outside?  Mistakes were made, that's obvious, but to suggest that the police were wholly to blame is ludicrous.

Yes he did blame the police due to the vast evidence proving their culpability in the events. The end wasn't full - there were big sections of empty space in the corner pens but the police continued to direct people to the hugely over-crowded middle section. The police weren't solely to blame but the fans have been proven not to be at fault.

If you're posting seriously and not on the wind up I suggest you do some basic research on what's been established about the events of that day as you're clearly extremely ignorant of it at the moment. You seem keen to stand up for the police. This is the same police who doctored 116 of 164 statements, who denied access to ambulances who could have saved potentially 40 lives due to 'fighting' that wasn't taking place, who deliberately engineered a narrative blaming Liverpool fans to cover their own culpability and who were completely unable to do the job they were employed to do that day and protect the people in that football ground.

Quoted from ExLeightonMariner

Sorry, how clumsy of me.  While contributing to a discussion I appear to have trodden on someone's ego.  To try and recover I'll disappear, come up with a really un-amusing facade and try desperately to stay in character in a vain attempt to be mr chat room popular.  Go away and bore someone else, this is a serious discussion.

How is me mentioning that you think throwing money at people who lost their relatives is the answer? Sounds like you can't come up with a reasonable response, and no you didn't tread on my ego, I never even posted in that thread, i just thought you made yourself sound like a massive ego who gloats on forums to try and make himself feel superior.

My father was in the Leppings Lane end.  He was 66 at the time.  He got on to the pitch ok.  I did not know he was even at the match.  He has now been a Town fan for 80 years.

Despite this personal involvement I have no specific interest from his experience.  I do as a football fan though.  I read a police statement in the press 2 days ago that sums up the disaster.  Some police officers were unable to help the injured.  They were in shock or being sick.  At the same time the much maligned Liverpool fans were helping injured fans by carrying then to safety on makeshift stretchers - advertising boards.  A senior officer had added a not to this police statement "the fans were organised - we were not.  This evidence needs to be changed".

Despite the above example of how authorities collectively failed the fans, any disaster is made up of many smaller and linked failings.  Eg why were Liverpool fans not given the bigger kop end?  The reason for the fences and lack of response from the ambulance services, were embedded in crowd control measures as the main priority, not actually helping the injured.  Many football fans, or rather hooligans at matches, have contributed to this position over many years. Attitudes were hardened against the average fan.   Collectively football reaped what it sown with deadly consequences.    

Apologises if these points were covered above.  I have been out all night and do not have the time to read all the good posts.