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 MuddyWaters |
| February 19, 2024, 3:28pm |
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Barley Wine Drinker  Posts: 14,125
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That is quite startling. Over a 46 game season that would give a total of 29/30 points which is pathetic. We’ve got that already this season and we’re shite! I knew he’d done badly in his final season at Crewe but didn’t know it was quite to that extreme.
Which then begs the question, where the hell was the due diligence on this?! What possible answer could he have given them that would explain being quite that shite over such a sustained period?! This solidifies my belief that they appointed him on the strength of this “Grimsby way” notion. There’s no way your first choice manager would be one who hasn’t worked for 18 months and who’s most recent season was as bad as that surely?!
I’m genuinely astonished that they haven’t fired him yet. Everyone makes mistakes in recruitment at times and I think this naive belief that we’re going to play like we did in 1998 may have played a part in that decision. But despite teams seemingly just being clinical against us, my reading of that situation is that they don’t need to do any more than that because we gift teams so many easy chances each game. Even Doncaster barely had to get out of 2nd gear. We might have a period of 20 minutes or so where we keep the ball well and create some half chances but you know that we will present you with at least two or three gilt edged chances. Why go hell for leather when you can sit back and let us present the gift wrapped three points eventually? We’re literally the worst we’ve ever been which given the last 20 years is one hell of an achievement.
If the ambition is to play more attractive football, then that’s great, but you can’t expect a squad that’s basically non league quality to be competitive straight away and then, rather than complain about finance, you have to invest in better players. Put simply, ambition has massively outweighed ability. |
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| Limerick Mariner |
| February 19, 2024, 3:41pm |
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This is frightening:
Artell managed Crewe for 42 league games in the 21/22 season when they were relegated. He managed a further 8 cup games, winning 5 of them (4 of them were in the EFL Trophy).
42 league games at Crewe in 21/22:
Won 6
Drawn 7
Lost 29
Goals For 32 (0.76 GF per game)
Goals Against 78 (1.86 GA per game)
PPG 0.60
Win Rate 14.29%
Looking at his 12 league games in charge of Town:
Won 2
Drawn 4
Lost 6
Goals For 17 (1.42 GF per game)
Goals Against 28 (2.33 GA per game)
PPG 0.83
Win Rate: 16.67%
Artell's last 54 league games in charge:
Won 8
Drawn 11
Lost 35
Goals For 49 (0.91 GF per game)
Goals Against 106 (1.96 GA per game)
PPG 0.65
Win Rate 14.81%
Over the last 54 league games he has managed, his style of play has produced a positive outcome 8 times. Over this period, his team's don't score a great deal. 8 of the 17 goals scored under him for Town were in 2 games. His team's don't score many, and they concede double what they score.
His system isn't working, and the more I look, the more obvious it becomes that he needs to go.
You are forgetting that in the 18 months between jobs he studied coaching methods at Sale Sharks and the Olympic Taekwondo team. The players look like they don’t expect the opposition to pass forwards and that they have been given instructions on how to defend in Korean… |
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| GrimRob |
| February 19, 2024, 3:46pm |
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If the ambition is to play more attractive football, then that’s great, but you can’t expect a squad that’s basically non league quality to be competitive straight away and then, rather than complain about finance, you have to invest in better players.
Put simply, ambition has massively outweighed ability.
To be a fair it's what he has been asked to do. He was specifically targeted because of his tactical approach and his willingness to turn to youth. Despite just releasing a film on the previous manager's stint the board had decided it was not entertaining enough. If someone offered you a job for decent money you'd agree to it even if you privately had your doubts? He'd been out of work for 18 months he's not going to turn it down. There are only about 20 EFL jobs he could conceivably do and one of them rang him up out of the blue. He had struck gold. |
| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
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| MarinerMal |
| February 19, 2024, 3:46pm |
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Snakebite drinker  Posts: 376
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This is frightening:
Artell managed Crewe for 42 league games in the 21/22 season when they were relegated. He managed a further 8 cup games, winning 5 of them (4 of them were in the EFL Trophy).
42 league games at Crewe in 21/22:
Won 6
Drawn 7
Lost 29
Goals For 32 (0.76 GF per game)
Goals Against 78 (1.86 GA per game)
PPG 0.60
Win Rate 14.29%
Looking at his 12 league games in charge of Town:
Won 2
Drawn 4
Lost 6
Goals For 17 (1.42 GF per game)
Goals Against 28 (2.33 GA per game)
PPG 0.83
Win Rate: 16.67%
Artell's last 54 league games in charge:
Won 8
Drawn 11
Lost 35
Goals For 49 (0.91 GF per game)
Goals Against 106 (1.96 GA per game)
PPG 0.65
Win Rate 14.81%
Over the last 54 league games he has managed, his style of play has produced a positive outcome 8 times. Over this period, his team's don't score a great deal. 8 of the 17 goals scored under him for Town were in 2 games. His team's don't score many, and they concede double what they score.
His system isn't working, and the more I look, the more obvious it becomes that he needs to go.
This is a poor bit of analysis. If you are going to analyse the guys record why limit it to the 21/22 season? His full record is for Crewe is Crewe Alexandra From : 8 January 2017 To: 11 April 2022 Played: 274 Won: 100 Drew: 51 Lost: 123 Win%: 36.5 That includes the 21/22 season, when Crewe experienced off the pitch difficulties and DA had to perform many roles at the club. It also includes his promotion from League Two in 2019-20, when he recieved the League Two manager of the Year. Also the 20/21 season where he finished 12th in League One. I understand people want a change of manager but if you are going to analyse the guys career at least do it fairly. |
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| Mariner_09 |
| February 19, 2024, 4:02pm |
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Considering his disastrous recruitment at Crewe it would make me shudder giving him a full summer to replace 15-20 players even if we scrape staying up .
And that gets to the crux of it. Say he does miraculously turn this around to enough of an extent to keep us up, do we then trust him to sign 15 players in the summer? We'll be right on him the moment it looks a bit dodgy. He's lost me, and I don't see a set of circumstances that lead him to winning me back? |
| I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause |
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| Poojah |
| February 19, 2024, 4:04pm |
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This is a poor bit of analysis.
If you are going to analyse the guys record why limit it to the 21/22 season?
His full record is for Crewe is
Crewe Alexandra From : 8 January 2017 To: 11 April 2022 Played: 274 Won: 100 Drew: 51 Lost: 123 Win%: 36.5
That includes the 21/22 season, when Crewe experienced off the pitch difficulties and DA had to perform many roles at the club.
It also includes his promotion from League Two in 2019-20, when he recieved the League Two manager of the Year.
Also the 20/21 season where he finished 12th in League One.
I understand people want a change of manager but if you are going to analyse the guys career at least do it fairly.
Selective maybe, but I don’t think it’s “poor” or irrelevant. What we’ve seen over a short sample of 12 games (albeit most profoundly in the last 6) is a catastrophic pattern of goals conceded and a failure to pick up points (just 2 from the last available 18’). This rather paints a picture that the side’s current failings aren’t just a freak blip but rather a reflection of the manager’s previous season in the game. It points to Artell’s previous success being the anomaly, not our current form. That is deeply concerning. |
| A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. |
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| DB |
| February 19, 2024, 4:09pm |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,929
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I do hope JS & AP take into account that, apart from walk ins, they will lose somewhere near £1,000,000 in income if those 2,000 ST's mentioned above don't renew. Sacking Aretll may not mean some will not renew but L2 survival is a must.
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| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
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| arryarryarry |
| February 19, 2024, 4:13pm |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 10,271
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This is a poor bit of analysis.
If you are going to analyse the guys record why limit it to the 21/22 season?
His full record is for Crewe is
Crewe Alexandra From : 8 January 2017 To: 11 April 2022 Played: 274 Won: 100 Drew: 51 Lost: 123 Win%: 36.5
That includes the 21/22 season, when Crewe experienced off the pitch difficulties and DA had to perform many roles at the club.
It also includes his promotion from League Two in 2019-20, when he recieved the League Two manager of the Year.
Also the 20/21 season where he finished 12th in League One.
I understand people want a change of manager but if you are going to analyse the guys career at least do it fairly.
Why don't you ask the Crewe fans who wanted rid of him? |
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| jamesgtfc |
| February 19, 2024, 4:16pm |
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Vodka Drinker Posts: 6,055
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This is a poor bit of analysis.
If you are going to analyse the guys record why limit it to the 21/22 season?
His full record is for Crewe is
Crewe Alexandra From : 8 January 2017 To: 11 April 2022 Played: 274 Won: 100 Drew: 51 Lost: 123 Win%: 36.5
That includes the 21/22 season, when Crewe experienced off the pitch difficulties and DA had to perform many roles at the club.
It also includes his promotion from League Two in 2019-20, when he recieved the League Two manager of the Year.
Also the 20/21 season where he finished 12th in League One.
I understand people want a change of manager but if you are going to analyse the guys career at least do it fairly.
We can all find his overall record at a glance, but I would argue that the more recent data is more relevant. His overall record before that looks alright. Crewe had an alright season in League One under him, but then capitulated in 21/22 and he seems incapable of addressing that. |
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| MarinerMal |
| February 19, 2024, 4:27pm |
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Snakebite drinker Posts: 376
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Selective maybe, but I don’t think it’s “poor” or irrelevant. What we’ve seen over a short sample of 12 games (albeit most profoundly in the last 6) is a catastrophic pattern of goals conceded and a failure to pick up points (just 2 from the last available 18’). This rather paints a picture that the side’s current failings aren’t just a freak blip but rather a reflection of the manager’s previous season in the game.
It points to Artell’s previous success being the anomaly, not our current form. That is deeply concerning.
It is poor because it is selective. As you continue to be. |
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