|
lew chaterleys lover |
February 22, 2024, 11:34am |
|
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,011
Posts Per Day: 1.07
Reputation: 75.9%
Rep Score: +30 / -10
Approval: +10,729
Gold Stars: 237
|
I suspect it is just an extension of the 'anti-data' thread(s). "What did the Romans (data) ever do for us", etc etc.
The owners are advocates of a data-led approach and therefore are considered entirely to blame, for some reason or other.
On that note, I'm an advocate of analysing data correctly in all areas of life (we wouldn't have civilisation without it), but I do wonder if there is a situation where the use of data in the lower divisions shouldn't be given as much attention as at higher levels? In the top couple of divisions, the players tend to be able to control even difficult balls on 9 out of 10 occasions and are probably accurate for more than 95 out of 100 basic passes. If the 'data' assumes every player can do the basics pretty much all of the time, the data they are going to be looking at will be from other aspects of play. Unfortunately, I don't think that our players control the ball on 9 out of 10 occasions and I'd had to even guess what their completion ratio for even simple passes might be. Might explain why the 'data' hasn't led us to sign players who are struggling to impose themselves.
I pride myself as being the biggest anti data poster on here, and you quite rightly say data (or information as we used to quaintly call it) is indeed partly responsible for mankind's progress. What we are talking about though is specifically data in a football context, apart from the incontrovertible data of the final score and league table. Everything else is just guff, as we have seen on countless occasions. Players coming with stats that might look good (or bad) in one team, and be completely different in another. That is because everything IS different. Neither am I bothered about how many goals we nearly scored, or how many corners we got. I don't care how many analysts we use, ten would come to 10 different conclusions and the PL employ the best there is but still manage to waste millions of pounds on players.
|
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
GrimPol |
February 22, 2024, 11:34am |
|
Fine Wine Drinker
Posts: 1,033
Posts Per Day: 0.60
Reputation: 53.86%
Rep Score: +3 / -7
Approval: -674
Gold Stars: 69
|
I suspect it is just an extension of the 'anti-data' thread(s). "What did the Romans (data) ever do for us", etc etc.
The owners are advocates of a data-led approach and therefore are considered entirely to blame, for some reason or other.
On that note, I'm an advocate of analysing data correctly in all areas of life (we wouldn't have civilisation without it), but I do wonder if there is a situation where the use of data in the lower divisions shouldn't be given as much attention as at higher levels? In the top couple of divisions, the players tend to be able to control even difficult balls on 9 out of 10 occasions and are probably accurate for more than 95 out of 100 basic passes. If the 'data' assumes every player can do the basics pretty much all of the time, the data they are going to be looking at will be from other aspects of play. Unfortunately, I don't think that our players control the ball on 9 out of 10 occasions and I'd had to even guess what their completion ratio for even simple passes might be. Might explain why the 'data' hasn't led us to sign players who are struggling to impose themselves.
True. We sometimes delude ourselves and forget that League 2 is actually 4th Tier. Data leading decisions have been embedded in Premier (top league) for some time as Clubs are looking for an edge with their £500 million team against the opposing £ 500 million team. Some in our team cannot trap the ball properly, our free kicks are in a vague direction, and our corners are more dangerous to us than the opposition as it's a springboard for a counterattack. Just because all horses have four legs, a head and a tail, it doesn't mean you should have plough horses running a steeplechase, nor race horses ploughing. They would give it a go but........
|
|
|
|
|
mariner91 |
February 22, 2024, 12:18pm |
|
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 15,513
Posts Per Day: 2.64
Reputation: 86.91%
Rep Score: +78 / -11
Location: Lincs
Approval: +19,666
Gold Stars: 262
|
True. We sometimes delude ourselves and forget that League 2 is actually 4th Tier. Data leading decisions have been embedded in Premier (top league) for some time as Clubs are looking for an edge with their £500 million team against the opposing £ 500 million team. Some in our team cannot trap the ball properly, our free kicks are in a vague direction, and our corners are more dangerous to us than the opposition as it's a springboard for a counterattack. Just because all horses have four legs, a head and a tail, it doesn't mean you should have plough horses running a steeplechase, nor race horses ploughing. They would give it a go but........
This made me laugh out loud because it's so depressingly true.
|
|
|
|
|
friskneymariner |
February 22, 2024, 12:57pm |
|
Posts: 2,496
Posts Per Day: 0.56
Reputation: 79.23%
Rep Score: +15 / -4
Location: friskney
Approval: +4,159
Gold Stars: 38
|
Data Analyses has now become a multi million pound industry.To justify their own existence it adopts the jargon of professionalisation .This is purely in order to obfuscate and elevate the mystique of their analyses.This occurs in all walks of industry and science,it is nothing more than modern day quackery ,the purpose of which is to hold the masses in awe.Do not swallow it.
|
| Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer. |
|
|
|
|
MuddyWaters |
February 22, 2024, 1:12pm |
|
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 14,115
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +32,262
Gold Stars: 236
|
This made me laugh out loud because it's so depressingly true.
It is depressingly true and you can use whatever data and highly paid analysts you like, it surely can’t legislate for you defending like a pub team.
|
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
GrimRob |
February 22, 2024, 1:20pm |
|
Moderator
Posts: 12,680
Posts Per Day: 2.12
Reputation: 69.92%
Rep Score: +76 / -34
Approval: +13,420
Gold Stars: 113
|
Data Analyses has now become a multi million pound industry.To justify their own existence it adopts the jargon of professionalisation .This is purely in order to obfuscate and elevate the mystique of their analyses.This occurs in all walks of industry and science,it is nothing more than modern day quackery ,the purpose of which is to hold the masses in awe.Do not swallow it.
What data are we actually using though? There can't have been much for DA's appointment as he hadn't worked for 18 months. Maybe a bit on sacking PH but virtually everyone thought it should be done when the axe fell. Maybe a bit on recruitment but many of the new players in their first interviews said Grimsby had been tracking them for a while? The only reason to keep DA on is lack of data, i.e. he's not had long enough. "The Grimsby Way" seems to have been selected based on nostalgia, it hasn't been seen since medieval times anyway in data terms. I am all for using data in all sorts of areas but just because we keep mentioning it doesn't mean it is being used effectively.
|
| 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
|
|
|
|
|
davmariner |
February 22, 2024, 1:35pm |
|
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,050
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Reputation: 78.9%
Rep Score: +37 / -10
Approval: +4,936
Gold Stars: 79
|
The most important data we should be looking at, at the moment is the league table, and Artell’s record to date. Which begs the question, why is he still here?
|
| Up The Mariners! |
|
|
|
|
arryarryarry |
February 22, 2024, 2:21pm |
|
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 10,261
Posts Per Day: 1.71
Reputation: 52.76%
Rep Score: +26 / -28
Approval: +10,036
Gold Stars: 116
|
I’m a bit confused about this thread. Why are some having a go at the owners I don’t think in my eyes they have done anything wrong. The manager appointment is always a bit of a lottery and even they wouldn’t have known for things to turn out a bit crap. They have stated since day one that they want the club to be self sufficient so when they move on the club won’t be in a crap position when handing it over. Take for instance the training ground maybe it’s taking a while because they aren’t paying for it out their own pocket but from ticket sales and players sold (JF would have put this on a benign loan). I think they had done well considering how much they had to deal with since coming in. Sacking PH was not something they took lightly and probably wanted PH to turn it around and maybe gave him more time despite the data, but fan pressure probably did it for PH.
Am I the only one on here that thinks they are doing the best they can under the circumstances. I certainly don’t blame them for the position at present. They have done more for this club than JF ever did.
So who do you think is to blame for the excrement performances and being 3rd from bottom of the EFL? John Fenty Russell Slade Marcus Bignot Mike Lyons Don McEvoy Bill Harvey Peter Grotier Graham Rodger Stuart Watkiss Neil Woods And any other excrement managers I can't think of. The girls and boys in the office The Stewards The ball boys and girls The fans
|
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|
paulmblythe |
February 22, 2024, 2:22pm |
|
Coke Drinker
Posts: 46
Posts Per Day: 0.03
Reputation: 81.78%
Rep Score: +1 / 0
Approval: +116
Gold Stars: 2
|
I pride myself as being the biggest anti data poster on here, and you quite rightly say data (or information as we used to quaintly call it) is indeed partly responsible for mankind's progress.
What we are talking about though is specifically data in a football context, apart from the incontrovertible data of the final score and league table. Everything else is just guff, as we have seen on countless occasions. Players coming with stats that might look good (or bad) in one team, and be completely different in another. That is because everything IS different.
Neither am I bothered about how many goals we nearly scored, or how many corners we got.
I don't care how many analysts we use, ten would come to 10 different conclusions and the PL employ the best there is but still manage to waste millions of pounds on players.
I have to agree up to a point. Data can't be read in isolation. An obvious example might be a striker scores 20 goals a season at a club. He's signed based on this, moves and get 5 at his next club. The missing bit of data is the rest of the team getting the ball into a position so that he can score at his previous club. If the team he moves to dont have that ability then he cant score as many
|
|
|
|
|
MuddyWaters |
February 22, 2024, 2:37pm |
|
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 14,115
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +32,262
Gold Stars: 236
|
Which bit of data dictated that we allow one of the few decent footballers at the club out on loan?
WTF is going on?
|
|
Logged |
|
|
|
|