To the Owners (merged)

Quoted from Poojah

Very simply, you define a minimum acceptable number of points on a sliding scale after so many games. You don’t have to set the bar so high that the manager feels inclined not to take the job, but we were tracking at ~1 point per game when Artell arrived, and maintaining that would have been sufficient to avoid relegation armageddon. If he wasn’t confident that he could average a point per game at the outset, he shouldn’t have been getting the job.

I would have thought misconduct clauses would be a part of any contract, manager, coaching staff or player, but assuming Artell hasn’t chinned the tea lady just yet, that’s not a lever we can pull at this moment in time.

Sorry but you are in cloud cuckoo land on this one

Quoted from HerveJosse

Sorry but you are in cloud cuckoo land on this one

I may well be - I’ve been very clear that I don’t know the ins and outs of football contract law. I just don’t understand why clubs are not able to protect themselves against serious underperformance by the person in arguably the most important position at the club.

Why is it impossible to have some kind of “managerial SLA”?

Quoted from ska face

If the reason for sticking with Artell is primarily financial, then it makes Stockwood’s comments about not needing investment and how easy it is to raise cash - which sounded ludicrous at the time - appear even more suicidal.

I think there’s definitely been an element of naivety on the part of the owners and I think people including Hurst have taken advantage of them and their good will. Like handing out a six month contract to Scannell when he couldn’t walk - píssing money down the drain, even if he was a good laugh around Cheapside.

I want to know where the data experts at the 21st Group sit in all this? Supposedly hired in an advisory capacity to two owners who openly admit to not being football experts, I hope they haven’t got any money heading their way.

I remember Stockwood saying their advice doesn't come cheap. They certainly won't be doing owt for no payment.

As ever it is with the benefit of hindsight but we seem to have spent a fortune on things that don't directly improve our fortunes actually on the pitch. You can have all the consultants you like, all the fancy job titles and analysts but to succeed you need a good a manager that is affordable and ditto players.

They even reduced Artells workload as a "manager" and his primary role is to coach the players!

They have tried to be too clever too soon instead of getting us competitive in this division. A lot of the guff could come later but Stockwood particularly looks wedded to process and procedure and doesn't seem to understand football isn't an industry where being extra nice with the current social niceties works. It is important to look after employees (the players) in accordance with the law but what are we trying to achieve with Artell thinking he is a social worker? He mentions his responsibilities to players more than the coaching - we are supposed to be trying to win football matches. Plenty of managers are nice people but their primary role is results on the field.

I know it's been done to death but B Corp? Really? More money, whatever the amount wasted on a vanity project that must be so good no other club in the country even knows what it means.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It’s only on the same level as him telling various players that they’re free to leave.

and they don't get a few hundred £K as compo

Quoted from Poojah

I may well be - I’ve been very clear that I don’t know the ins and outs of football contract law. I just don’t understand why clubs are not able to protect themselves against serious underperformance by the person in arguably the most important position at the club.

Why is it impossible to have some kind of “managerial SLA”?

If Artell was performing like this in the corporate world, he would be dismissed at no cost. The fact we would have to pay Artell any compensation for 13 games of rapidly progressive destruction seems unfair.

I suspect that we can terminate his contract without compensation if he takes us down. The fans aren't willing to take that risk though.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I remember Stockwood saying their advice doesn't come cheap. They certainly won't be doing owt for no payment.

As ever it is with the benefit of hindsight but we seem to have spent a fortune on things that don't directly improve our fortunes actually on the pitch. You can have all the consultants you like, all the fancy job titles and analysts but to succeed you need a good a manager that is affordable and ditto players.

They even reduced Artells workload as a "manager" and his primary role is to coach the players!

They have tried to be too clever too soon instead of getting us competitive in this division. A lot of the guff could come later but Stockwood particularly looks wedded to process and procedure and doesn't seem to understand football isn't an industry where being extra nice with the current social niceties works. It is important to look after employees (the players) in accordance with the law but what are we trying to achieve with Artell thinking he is a social worker? He mentions his responsibilities to players more than the coaching - we are supposed to be trying to win football matches. Plenty of managers are nice people but their primary role is results on the field.

I know it's been done to death but B Corp? Really? More money, whatever the amount wasted on a vanity project that must be so good no other club in the country even knows what it means.

I said something similar at the time they arrived

They both may have done very well in a commercial environment but running a football club is nothing like most businesses. At our level you are very unlikely to make much in profits if any at all. You have a very limited customer base and if you urine most of that base off you are in trouble.

You can have all the backroom staff and advisors you want and get involved in all sorts of non football issues but it's what happens on the pitch that matters.

It's time for them to make a decision that they will have to standby at this late stage of the season. Stay up and they may be forgiven for what is turning out to be a crap season, we go down and they will be blamed for years to come and lose all the goodwill that has come their way since they took over the club.

Any sign of the new CEO and replacement for the role Shaun P has vacated. Vital infrastructure those two

Quoted from Poojah

I may well be - I’ve been very clear that I don’t know the ins and outs of football contract law. I just don’t understand why clubs are not able to protect themselves against serious underperformance by the person in arguably the most important position at the club.

Why is it impossible to have some kind of “managerial SLA”?

I think the only protection would be making provision in the budget/accounts each year just in case they have to sack the manager.

I would like to see the notes kept when they interviewed for PH replacement, who else was in the running and why DA was thought to be the best candidate.
I mean there were other sacked managers out there to choose from, still "fresh".  Why pick one that's "stale" and has been out of football management for 18 months and yet had to hit the ground running as the good trawler GTFC was listing.?
Won't happen of course, but still a good question.

Quoted from GrimPol

I would like to see the notes kept when they interviewed for PH replacement, who else was in the running and why DA was thought to be the best candidate.
I mean there were other sacked managers out there to choose from, still "fresh".  Why pick one that's "stale" and has been out of football management for 18 months and yet had to hit the ground running as the good trawler GTFC was listing.?
Won't happen of course, but still a good question.

Being as process driven as 1878 are I think it’s a very fair question for the next Forum, assuming DA has gone by then.