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 Poojah |
| February 19, 2024, 6:13pm |
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you can pin this if artell stops for 8 or 9 more games we will be in the national lge again next season but in my opinion he's got two games & fgr is a must win at home lose that & the fans will want blood & jason will have to admit a mistake
If he loses at Morecambe, he won't get FGR. |
| A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. |
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| Mappers |
| February 19, 2024, 6:22pm |
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It is poor because it is selective. As you continue to be.
I think a reasonable argument would be the stats back up what most Crewe fans say -he had a decent 3 or 4 years with a young squad within a youth system that he was embedded in , in terms of coaching , their formation and method . He did well . The squad got emptied out of the young talent ( a good few to Champ clubs ) which he had played a part in developing . He's then required to recruit from outside the summer pre their relegation , something their own chairman in his own words said 'went extremely poorly' . After relegation and a 16 game run without a win Artell is removed. He's only had 1 try of recruiting from outside and it went particularly badly -- we are not Crewe we don't have an A* academy with millions poured in year in year out , no conveyor belt of talent . I just wouldn't trust him over a summer window , even if he somehow managed to stay in situ and guide us to safety . |
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| MarinerMal |
| February 19, 2024, 6:24pm |
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I agree with you, people are being selective with the data, and they were when we hired him. It's based on the mood.
I knew how bad his last season with Crewe was, and I knew it came after losing a bunch of young players that came through the Dario Gradi system. What that told me was that he couldn't identify good players but could get a tune out of young developing ones already taught to play the Crewe way.
No way did I think it'd be this bad, but I'd have bet strongly that we won't progress playing this football in this division without the best academy below the Championship that's been going for decades at huge cost.
Now it's really hit the fan, all anybody can see is the bad. But he did get Crewe promoted and did win manager of the year, which is what people saw at first.
Both happened and both are valid. I tend to think a relegation season as your last is too big a red flag to ignore unless you're in a state like Sheff Utd where it was virtually impossible to stay up this season. Tha same goes for players and that's been right for every single one of them this season.
I'm not so sure people were being selective with the data when they appointed him, certainly not the owners. They would have seen the promotion and the relegation and would have asked about both at the interview. I'm guessing he gave convincing mitigating circumstances for the relegation season and/or he had learned from the experience. He took over Crewe in 2016, I think and eventually won promotion in 2020. That suggests it wasn't as simple as inheriting good youth players and he must have purchased players rather than just relying on the youth (so the recruitment couldn't have been terrible). The fact he got the most out of the youth players isn't a bad thing either in my book. |
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| mariner91 |
| February 19, 2024, 6:24pm |
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I agree with you, people are being selective with the data, and they were when we hired him. It's based on the mood.
I knew how bad his last season with Crewe was, and I knew it came after losing a bunch of young players that came through the Dario Gradi system. What that told me was that he couldn't identify good players but could get a tune out of young developing ones already taught to play the Crewe way.
No way did I think it'd be this bad, but I'd have bet strongly that we won't progress playing this football in this division without the best academy below the Championship that's been going for decades at huge cost.
Now it's really hit the fan, all anybody can see is the bad. But he did get Crewe promoted and did win manager of the year, which is what people saw at first.
Both happened and both are valid. I tend to think a relegation season as your last is too big a red flag to ignore unless you're in a state like Sheff Utd where it was virtually impossible to stay up this season. Tha same goes for players and that's been right for every single one of them this season.
Good post. I think he maybe believes his own hype because he got the promotion playing his way and thinks he's a better coach than he actually is. It would be foolish to ignore the promotion completely but he was essentially gifted almost an entire starting eleven, a talented one at that, that was already well versed in playing that way. Sadly even Pep Guardiola couldn't get a midfield three of Green, Andrews and Cilfton playing progressive, possession based football. |
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| mariner91 |
| February 19, 2024, 6:27pm |
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I'm not so sure people were being selective with the data when they appointed him, certainly not the owners. They would have seen the promotion and the relegation and would have asked about both at the interview. I'm guessing he gave convincing mitigating circumstances for the relegation season and/or he had learned from the experience.
He took over Crewe in 2016, I think and eventually won promotion in 2020. That suggests it wasn't as simple as inheriting good youth players and he must have purchased players rather than just relying on the youth (so the recruitment couldn't have been terrible). The fact he got the most out of the youth players isn't a bad thing either in my book.
He had 15 players that made more than 20 appearances. Of those 15, 9 had come through the academy. That's two thirds of your core squad. He had some astute signings of experienced players alongside that like Nicky Hunt and Paul Green. |
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| pen penfras |
| February 19, 2024, 6:28pm |
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If he loses at Morecambe, he won't get FGR.
You'd think so. But it seems so unlikely that this will turn around. Even if we beat Morecambe and draw with FGR which will be almost enough to keep us up, we'd need a spectacular upturn in form to have any chance of selling tickets next season. Sacking him and improving the results would at least give shoots of hope to sell tickets on. Artell has lost the fans, winning that back is going to be harder than winning back the players. We can't afford to lose any income when we're already low paying, have committed to more stadium work next summer and the owners don't want to spend anymore on the club. If I was JS, I'd be thinking he has to go it's just a case of are we more likely to stay up with or without him in charge for now. |
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| Northbank Mariner |
| February 19, 2024, 6:32pm |
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You'd think so. But it seems so unlikely that this will turn around. Even if we beat Morecambe and draw with FGR which will be almost enough to keep us up, we'd need a spectacular upturn in form to have any chance of selling tickets next season. Sacking him and improving the results would at least give shoots of hope to sell tickets on.
Artell has lost the fans, winning that back is going to be harder than winning back the players. We can't afford to lose any income when we're already low paying, have committed to more stadium work next summer and the owners don't want to spend anymore on the club.
If I was JS, I'd be thinking he has to go it's just a case of are we more likely to stay up with or without him in charge for now.
Can I ask you one question PP, why on earth do you have to go in on the owners at every opportunity you get? Are we low paying?..take it you've seen the players pay slips then?.. And JS & AP have stated they will keep filling in any voids 8n funds should they be needed. |
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| TownSNAFU5 |
| February 19, 2024, 6:35pm |
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If they are looking for a very experienced manager then Roy Hodgson has stepped down today.
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| MarinerMal |
| February 19, 2024, 6:43pm |
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He had 15 players that made more than 20 appearances. Of those 15, 9 had come through the academy. That's two thirds of your core squad. He had some astute signings of experienced players alongside that like Nicky Hunt and Paul Green.
Three or four of those players have gone on to Championship teams but not set the world alight. It seems a stretch to suggest any DA success was only because he had good youth players. I mean, we are not talking Man Utd class of '92 here are we. |
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| pen penfras |
| February 19, 2024, 6:44pm |
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I'm not so sure people were being selective with the data when they appointed him, certainly not the owners. They would have seen the promotion and the relegation and would have asked about both at the interview. I'm guessing he gave convincing mitigating circumstances for the relegation season and/or he had learned from the experience.
He took over Crewe in 2016, I think and eventually won promotion in 2020. That suggests it wasn't as simple as inheriting good youth players and he must have purchased players rather than just relying on the youth (so the recruitment couldn't have been terrible). The fact he got the most out of the youth players isn't a bad thing either in my book.
That reminds me of the point I missed out. The mitigating circumstances as you put it will be that the players were sold and he didn't have sufficient funds to replace them. That's the exact thing that's going to happen to him here. This appointment was a dog and there was plenty of evidence that he wasn't what we needed. But even if he was, to try and play the way we are with the players we have is criminal. They were never going to be up to it and if that's what the board wanted, they needed to chuck a lot of money in alongside this manager to try it so soon. |
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