I have been asked by staff at the club to review the posting on your website (The Fishy).
It is with huge disappointment what I have read and I couldn’t be more appalled, by the offensive nature of many of the threads and postings, some of which are abhorrent to say the least and others no doubt liables me.
I am aware that you are able to trace the IP addresses of those posting the messages.
Could you please with immediate effect remove all threads or postings accordingly and retain them for potential evidence together with their IP addresses and contact details and confirm to me that you have done this, as I may be forced to make challenge in due course if the site is not moderated appropriately in the future.
For the record I have also retained screen scrapes of the threads.
I am at a loss as to how anyone can deserve such accusations or that they can be left to accumulate.
Would the same people abuse the clubs sponsors that provide sponsorship and expect them to carry on next year, I think not.
I have only ever worked in the best interest of our football club and will continue to do that, if that requires me to leave the Board of Directors then I would do this. I am not hanging on over other options available to our club.
Its not so long ago there were some suggesting that when I held 51% shareholding in the club, that this was a reason for lack of external interest/investment in the club. Now it’s my loans.
What are they going to say if I convert loans into shares now!!!! that I am vie for control.
The club has effectively been up for sale since I stepped down as chairman and there has been no credible interest in taking the club on. A prerequisite of anyone taking over is that they can demonstrate financial baking as I am sure everyone will understand. (That is backing to demonstrate they can finance the club going forward, not to pay back loans as I am sure some will cease on)
I realise during my time as chairman substantially we have failed on the field. Not a defence, but I have to say that the Board have always maintained a competitive playing budget available to each and every manager and ensured that the club can pay its bills during the whole of my involvement in our club.
I know that’s not good enough, however while our club continues to provide a competitive budget and pay its bills, we have a football club to support and some day, with or without me as a Director, football fortune will return.
There are those that think Noddy and Big Ears are running the club, by god I would like to see them stand up to be counted.
In making decisions without responsibility and the financial implications we can all do better than those in charge, but with the facts and responsibility before you, chooses are not always quite so wide ranging or possible.
I am happy you post this email and would like confirmation of your action by return.
Take the club from the championship to the conference then bring liable action against the fans!
The club should take legal action on its spellchecker!
i think he has done a really good job at the club, and should be given the key to the city and a knighthood/ be carried around the town on the backs of fans chanting his name.
From now on any posts which libel Mr Fenty or any of the other GTFC board members will be removed. IP Addresses, names and e-mail addresses will be recorded and anyone who has been warned will be banned from the site. You may think you are hiding behind a made up name but you are not really.
i think he has done a really good job at the club, and should be given the key to the city and a knighthood/ be carried around the town on the backs of fans chanting his name.
I am surprised this has not happened sooner - people can only take so much abuse and verbal attacks.A totally sad day for our football club and our website Where do we go from here ? UTM !
The Icenian Prediction League Winner 2011 .......the first Champion!
Well thanks to the useless mods who moan about whats going on and left it on the Fishy well done youre to blame as well as the posters who started all this.
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
I am surprised this has not happened sooner - people can only take so much abuse and verbal attacks.A totally sad day for our football club and our website Where do we go from here ? UTM !
Well thanks to the useless mods who moan about whats going on and left it on the Fishy well done youre to blame as well as the posters who started all this.
Point taken. I hold my hand up and say we should have done more,
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Blame Fenty when he was chairman, blame the managers, blame the players, blame Fenty when he is not chairman, blame Mike Parker because he doesnt want to be chairman, blame this tin pot league, blame pub sides for beating us, blame the GTST and then blame the mods on the Fishy.......have we missed anybody out who is to blame.
Batch, K.Moore, Waters, Wiggington, Crombie, Brolly, Ford, Drinkell, Mitchell, Cumming, Kilmore. D.Moore, Stone, Liddell. ....1979/80..... now that WAS a team.
There is a massive difference between having an opinion, debating it and personal abuse. The Fishy should be about lively debate and peculiar humour, it is always poorer when it drops into abuse, to JF or anyone else, even some of our own problem children. What the original letter should do is make you stop and think before posting anything abusive. For the record if people want to abuse me they can feel free as I don't give a excrement. The point is though the moment someone does take offence is the moment it becomes a problem. Even ex chairmen with the thickest of skin reach that point eventually.
Pls note the exceptions to the above are Dave Challinor, Lee Hughes, Martin Butler and Micky Lyons, there are others, but perhaps they should be placed on some sort of Town Offenders Register so the Fishy vigilante mob can chase after them from behind their keyboards.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
There is a massive difference between having an opinion, debating it and personal abuse. The Fishy should be about lively debate and peculiar humour, it is always poorer when it drops into abuse, to JF or anyone else, even some of our own problem children. What the original letter should do is make you stop and think before posting anything abusive. For the record if people want to abuse me they can feel free as I don't give a excrement. The point is though the moment someone does take offence is the moment it becomes a problem. Even ex chairmen with the thickest of skin reach that point eventually.
Pls note the exceptions to the above are Dave Challinor, Lee Hughes, Martin Butler and Micky Lyons, there are others, but perhaps they should be placed on some sort of Town Offenders Register so the Fishy vigilante mob can chase after them from behind their keyboards.
I like the sound of a Town Offenders Register>
Batch, K.Moore, Waters, Wiggington, Crombie, Brolly, Ford, Drinkell, Mitchell, Cumming, Kilmore. D.Moore, Stone, Liddell. ....1979/80..... now that WAS a team.
Utterly unnecessary from Fenty - as is usually the case with his public statements.
It says a lot about the club and the man himself that he cannot rise above such childish internet drivel and feels the need to take such a threatening and heavy-handed approach.
People on here talk about the potential death of GTFC but as far as I am concerned that has already happened. I still support them (I'll be there tomorrow) but the fire and passion has been wiped away by the misery of the last ten years. Rightly or wrongly, I blame JF for that, and I for one hope the man never gets near the chairmanship again.
Utterly unnecessary from Fenty - as is usually the case with his public statements.
It says a lot about the club and the man himself that he cannot rise above such childish internet drivel and feels the need to take such a threatening and heavy-handed approach.
People on here talk about the potential death of GTFC but as far as I am concerned that has already happened. I still support them (I'll be there tomorrow) but the fire and passion has been wiped away by the misery of the last ten years. Rightly or wrongly, I blame JF for that, and I for one hope the man never gets near the chairmanship again.
Feel free to pass that on to John, Rob.
Biggest nail on the head post, post of the week infact.
I have been asked by staff at the club to review the posting on your website (The Fishy).
It is with huge disappointment what I have read and I couldn’t be more appalled, by the offensive nature of many of the threads and postings, some of which are abhorrent to say the least and others no doubt liables me.
I am aware that you are able to trace the IP addresses of those posting the messages.
Could you please with immediate effect remove all threads or postings accordingly and retain them for potential evidence together with their IP addresses and contact details and confirm to me that you have done this, as I may be forced to make challenge in due course if the site is not moderated appropriately in the future.
For the record I have also retained screen scrapes of the threads.
I am at a loss as to how anyone can deserve such accusations or that they can be left to accumulate.
Would the same people abuse the clubs sponsors that provide sponsorship and expect them to carry on next year, I think not.
I have only ever worked in the best interest of our football club and will continue to do that, if that requires me to leave the Board of Directors then I would do this. I am not hanging on over other options available to our club.
Its not so long ago there were some suggesting that when I held 51% shareholding in the club, that this was a reason for lack of external interest/investment in the club. Now it’s my loans.
What are they going to say if I convert loans into shares now!!!! that I am vie for control.
The club has effectively been up for sale since I stepped down as chairman and there has been no credible interest in taking the club on. A prerequisite of anyone taking over is that they can demonstrate financial baking as I am sure everyone will understand. (That is backing to demonstrate they can finance the club going forward, not to pay back loans as I am sure some will cease on)
I realise during my time as chairman substantially we have failed on the field. Not a defence, but I have to say that the Board have always maintained a competitive playing budget available to each and every manager and ensured that the club can pay its bills during the whole of my involvement in our club.
I know that’s not good enough, however while our club continues to provide a competitive budget and pay its bills, we have a football club to support and some day, with or without me as a Director, football fortune will return.
There are those that think Noddy and Big Ears are running the club, by god I would like to see them stand up to be counted.
In making decisions without responsibility and the financial implications we can all do better than those in charge, but with the facts and responsibility before you, chooses are not always quite so wide ranging or possible.
I am happy you post this email and would like confirmation of your action by return.
Utterly unnecessary from Fenty - as is usually the case with his public statements.
It says a lot about the club and the man himself that he cannot rise above such childish internet drivel and feels the need to take such a threatening and heavy-handed approach.
People on here talk about the potential death of GTFC but as far as I am concerned that has already happened. I still support them (I'll be there tomorrow) but the fire and passion has been wiped away by the misery of the last ten years. Rightly or wrongly, I blame JF for that, and I for one hope the man never gets near the chairmanship again.
Feel free to pass that on to John, Rob.
childish drivel ,, oh dear i thought people were taking it seriously
From now on any posts which libel Mr Fenty or any of the other GTFC board members will be removed. IP Addresses, names and e-mail addresses will be recorded and anyone who has been warned will be banned from the site. You may think you are hiding behind a made up name but you are not really.
Unbelievable !! He's probably got no issues with nice, positive "we love John Fenty" threads but anyone mentions his long list of failures and poor decision making and he comes out with that !!!
You can't help but libel him when you mention all his fook ups !! lol
I like how he suggested it wasn't him making a complaint . . . . . . . really !!! "I have been asked by staff at the club to review the posting on your website (The Fishy)" What a joke !
Hoorah . . . . . so much for free speech eh !!!
It just confirms what I've suspected about him and supports the many reasons why IMO the club failed under his Chairmanship !
Avast, me proud beauty! Would ya mind if I fired me cannon through your porthole !!!
Utterly unnecessary from Fenty - as is usually the case with his public statements.
It says a lot about the club and the man himself that he cannot rise above such childish internet drivel and feels the need to take such a threatening and heavy-handed approach.
People on here talk about the potential death of GTFC but as far as I am concerned that has already happened. I still support them (I'll be there tomorrow) but the fire and passion has been wiped away by the misery of the last ten years. Rightly or wrongly, I blame JF for that, and I for one hope the man never gets near the chairmanship again.
Feel free to pass that on to John, Rob.
100% AGREE !
Avast, me proud beauty! Would ya mind if I fired me cannon through your porthole !!!
I still think some of you are slightly missing the point, look at the first line of the letter:-
" Dear Rob,"
" I have been asked by staff at the club to review the posting on your website (The Fishy)."
It's not only Mr Fenty but also a lot of GTFC staff that some very damaging statements have been made about. It would appear that they the staff asked him to check the fishy.
As an exiled Town supporter living abroad I can't believe some of the stuff that you have been aloud to post on the site. Making untrue of false statements on the net or via email can have serious consequences: I would have thought that after the recent events in the UK you would have all been aware of that.
I am of course very sad to see the state of GTFC on which I have my own thoughts and do get chance now and again to talk to people about it. All I can see that I think you are lucky that the powers to be (not Mr Fenty of GTFC) have not taken the site of air.
There is a massive difference between having an opinion, debating it and personal abuse. The Fishy should be about lively debate and peculiar humour, it is always poorer when it drops into abuse, to JF or anyone else, even some of our own problem children. What the original letter should do is make you stop and think before posting anything abusive. For the record if people want to abuse me they can feel free as I don't give a excrement. The point is though the moment someone does take offence is the moment it becomes a problem. Even ex chairmen with the thickest of skin reach that point eventually.
Pls note the exceptions to the above are Dave Challinor, Lee Hughes, Martin Butler and Micky Lyons, there are others, but perhaps they should be placed on some sort of Town Offenders Register so the Fishy vigilante mob can chase after them from behind their keyboards.
Agreed. But once again its the manner of how Fenty deals with things like this. Surely a private correspondance to the board moderators would have sufficed and then they could have taken the appropriate action? After all, I suspect we are talking about no more than 5-10 posters who have got anywhere near anything libellous, if that.
As for his complaints about the language being used and things being abusive - does he listen to some GTFC fans at games and the abuse they hurl at players, managers, opposing fans? Plenty of this is appalling. Is he going to take action against this? Suspect not.
Unbelievable !! He's probably got no issues with nice, positive "we love John Fenty" threads but anyone mentions his long list of failures and poor decision making and he comes out with that !!!
That's not true at all. You can criticise you just can't say anything you can't prove about him (and by that I mean it's in the public domain). The same goes for any other person in the country. It's the law believe it or not!
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
That's not true at all. You can criticise you just can't say anything you can't prove about him (and by that I mean it's in the public domain). The same goes for any other person it the country. It's the law believe it or not!
So we can say he's dragged this club down to the bottom of English football in the past 10 years and post the league tables as proof, maybe throw in a bit of harvard referencing?
If some of the statements were near libellous I'm sure the mods would've removed them , as they have on many occasions previously . I'll stand up for JF in so much as he's dipped into his pocket to keep the club afloat and HAS given the managers HE'S appointed a decent budget . However the club has fallen off the cliff under his watch and ultimately , and therefore has to take his blame . Granted no one likes criticism / abuse but it goes with the territory I'm afraid . Just ask anyone who's been PM in the last 25 years . They never came on message boards and told the country to shut it or else !
There's no doubt JF is town thru and thru which probably makes it worse for all concerned . It would be easier if he were from the far east or Russia
Having read his message to Rob my need for someone to act as my proxy at the AGM to vote against Fenty's re-election as a director of GTFC is now even greater and when he is proposed as Chairman, as he inevitably will be, it is vital he is not successful.
(I don't think that 'liables' anyone)
Clearly the posts alleging that the club is massively overstaffed appear to have some accuracy if they have time to monitor this message board in works time.
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
Can admin not just ask Mr Fenty to point out which posts are the offensive ones and speak to individuals involved and go through appropriate channels that way? It's better than having loads of people seeing how close they can get to crossing the line and a load of other people thinking they're hilarious and posting post after post of unfunny 'jokes'.
It's an absolute joke the personal abuse Fenty has recieved on here and he's correct to finally do something about it; what's even more of a farce is people also attacking his brother. Hopefully it is noted that it's the very small minority of 'fans' who behave in this way; most of us with at least half a brain cell know better.
I have been asked by staff at the club to review the posting on your website (The Fishy).
It is with huge disappointment what I have read and I couldn’t be more appalled, by the offensive nature of many of the threads and postings, some of which are abhorrent to say the least and others no doubt liables me.
I am aware that you are able to trace the IP addresses of those posting the messages.
Could you please with immediate effect remove all threads or postings accordingly and retain them for potential evidence together with their IP addresses and contact details and confirm to me that you have done this, as I may be forced to make challenge in due course if the site is not moderated appropriately in the future.
For the record I have also retained screen scrapes of the threads.
I am at a loss as to how anyone can deserve such accusations or that they can be left to accumulate.
Would the same people abuse the clubs sponsors that provide sponsorship and expect them to carry on next year, I think not.
I have only ever worked in the best interest of our football club and will continue to do that, if that requires me to leave the Board of Directors then I would do this. I am not hanging on over other options available to our club.
Its not so long ago there were some suggesting that when I held 51% shareholding in the club, that this was a reason for lack of external interest/investment in the club. Now it’s my loans.
What are they going to say if I convert loans into shares now!!!! that I am vie for control.
The club has effectively been up for sale since I stepped down as chairman and there has been no credible interest in taking the club on. A prerequisite of anyone taking over is that they can demonstrate financial baking as I am sure everyone will understand. (That is backing to demonstrate they can finance the club going forward, not to pay back loans as I am sure some will cease on)
I realise during my time as chairman substantially we have failed on the field. Not a defence, but I have to say that the Board have always maintained a competitive playing budget available to each and every manager and ensured that the club can pay its bills during the whole of my involvement in our club.
I know that’s not good enough, however while our club continues to provide a competitive budget and pay its bills, we have a football club to support and some day, with or without me as a Director, football fortune will return.
There are those that think Noddy and Big Ears are running the club, by god I would like to see them stand up to be counted.
In making decisions without responsibility and the financial implications we can all do better than those in charge, but with the facts and responsibility before you, chooses are not always quite so wide ranging or possible.
I am happy you post this email and would like confirmation of your action by return.
OK moderator, we've all had a laugh now it's time to reveal who it really is.
It can't be Fenty surely.
If it is it explains a lot about our current situation and it's even more worrying that he runs our club and is likely to be chairman again by the end of this month (in my opinion and allegedly of course)
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
If some of the statements were near libellous I'm sure the mods would've removed them , as they have on many occasions previously . I'll stand up for JF in so much as he's dipped into his pocket to keep the club afloat and HAS given the managers HE'S appointed a decent budget . However the club has fallen off the cliff under his watch and ultimately , and therefore has to take his blame . Granted no one likes criticism / abuse but it goes with the territory I'm afraid . Just ask anyone who's been PM in the last 25 years . They never came on message boards and told the country to shut it or else !
Difference is the PM gets paid a heck of a lot of money to take up that post, whereas JF puts money IN for the privelage.
All this is the same small group of people venting their spleens over and over and over again because they feel they need someone to be angry at and blame for what in reality is the result of a number of circumstances that have conspired over the years to bring us to where we are now. That one man is soley responsible for it is simplistic and ridiculous imo. But people stop listening to them so they start to get more and more abusive in their posts towards JF, start attacking his family as if they're also responsible just by association (ie Sonik), and end up inventing complete crap and fueling bollox speculation just so people start to listen again. Very loud behind a keyboard but funny how you never ever see these people popping up at fans' forums etc to echo the same points they make so (very) regularly on this board.
Difference is the PM gets paid a heck of a lot of money to take up that post, whereas JF puts money IN for the privelage.
All this is the same small group of people venting their spleens over and over and over again because they feel they need someone to be angry at and blame for what in reality is the result of a number of circumstances that have conspired over the years to bring us to where we are now. That one man is soley responsible for it is simplistic and ridiculous imo. But people stop listening to them so they start to get more and more abusive in their posts towards JF, start attacking his family as if they're also responsible just by association (ie Sonik), and end up inventing complete crap and fueling bollox speculation just so people start to listen again. Very loud behind a keyboard but funny how you never ever see these people popping up at fans' forums etc to echo the same points they make so (very) regularly on this board.
I am sure its a wind up but Sonik can give as good as he gets!
i emailed john once and i posted his reply on here (i cant stress this enough i did obtain his permission to post his reply) and people said i didnt receive an email from him cos it was poorly spelt now you all believe me and ive got nowt to worry about cos i check the facts
i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one
"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"
From the mods or someone else? Wouldn't the email have had to come from john@gtfc though?
Well lets put it this way - if it WAS genuine this will be the definitive low point!
It would be impossible to sink any lower than threatening fans who are venting their spleen at someone who has overseen such a spectacular fall from grace - and that is not allegedly either!
Well lets put it this way - if it WAS genuine this will be the definitive low point!
It would be impossible to sink any lower than threatening fans who are venting their spleen at someone who has overseen such a spectacular fall from grace - and that is not allegedly either!
Careful now lew. One would hate to upset our beloved chairman for he has done much to improve our club. We have one of the best programmes in the non-league and the pitch is second to none. We should focus on these positives and forget the fact we have slid down the Football League and then out of it. Viva Mr Fenty!
Mr McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
From now on any posts which libel Mr Fenty or any of the other GTFC board members will be removed. IP Addresses, names and e-mail addresses will be recorded and anyone who has been warned will be banned from the site. You may think you are hiding behind a made up name but you are not really.
Well done its about time some action was took myself I give my thoughts on mr Fenty with out abuse which I think is fair and also IMHO good letter from big John well said UTMM.
Careful now lew. One would hate to upset our beloved chairman for he has done much to improve our club. We have one of the best programmes in the non-league and the pitch is second to none. We should focus on these positives and forget the fact we have slid down the Football League and then out of it. Viva Mr Fenty!
Is it a similar case to that Romanian dictator who didnt realize the people were against him till they were about to shoot him?
That not allegedly either by the way - just an observation!
i emailed john once and i posted his reply on here (i cant stress this enough i did obtain his permission to post his reply) and people said i didnt receive an email from him cos it was poorly spelt now you all believe me and ive got nowt to worry about cos i check the facts
the whole point of the fishy is so fans can have their say and if some don't like him then he should just not get worked up over it, that email has changed my opinion of him, if he's gonna have a hissy fit over a few nasty comments then he belongs in primary school.
the whole point of the fishy is so fans can have their say and if some don't like him then he should just not get worked up over it, that email has changed my opinion of him, if he's gonna have a hissy fit over a few nasty comments then he belongs in primary school.
Alongside the idiots making unfounded accusations about his motives etc. Where does it end? A lot of people have issues with the state of GTFC. The vast majority don't descend into the sort of personal abuse that a few think is acceptable in a civilised society. More power to Fenty's elbow.
I'm not sure which posts are being referred to but I certainly think his daughter has grounds for complaint, there were some very non pc comments about her quite a while back. I would also think that Jf isn't threatening people who don't like him or the running of the club, it is more likely the odd comment that has been made without reasoning or evidence.
Disappointing e-mail from John if I'm honest. I've a lot of time for the bloke, I know he is Town through and through but we are an utter shambles and I would have thought he could have rose above any nonsense on here.
He has put a lot of money in, money I don't have or I'd do the same. But the facts are we are a mid table NON LEAGUE club, it hurts me to type that and John has to (and to be fair, has) take some responsibility. I don't doubt he has the best interests of the club but the ground is crumbling, the facilities a disgrace. The catering is shocking (I tried to buy a twix to go with my 'hot chocolate aka drainwater last Saturday to be told there was no chocolate left - it's hardly short dated! No beer pumps in the main stand bar, crap cans). Amateur, urine poor and obviously short sighted cost cutting gone too far.
There have been issues with media outlets in the past (The Black and White Corner, Radio Humberside) where John has removed access to the players and the club when he hasn't agreed with what was being said. It's interesting how the Telegraph hasn't particularly asked difficult or searching questions for a number of years - perhaps because they have a symbiotic relationship with the club and don't want to rock the boat? (my opinion, I stand by it).
This latest episode does not sit easy with me at all.
I'll not hide behind a keyboard. BP Vicar aka Jason Paget.
Having read JF comments a few times over i have to agree with him, we have unfortunately had a torrid time with him as Chairman however some of the rude and sicking comments you read on here are totally out of order !. We have all posted on here saying 10 years ago we was batting above our weight..... well yes we was so was Luton, Lincoln, Stockport, Cambridge to name a few in our league look a level above Bradford, Swindon, Plymouth to name a couple well i think Fenty, granted is to blame to some degree but needs to be praised for the way we have controlled our finances and have at least tried to improve things weather or not people agree with Johns decisions is there own choice i certainly dont agree with alot of the things he has done but it has to be noted the guy is Grimsby through and through and at least maybe some respect has to be shown to him
Having read JF comments a few times over i have to agree with him, we have unfortunately had a torrid time with him as Chairman however some of the rude and sicking comments you read on here are totally out of order !. We have all posted on here saying 10 years ago we was batting above our weight..... well yes we was so was Luton, Lincoln, Stockport, Cambridge to name a few in our league look a level above Bradford, Swindon, Plymouth to name a couple well i think Fenty, granted is to blame to some degree but needs to be praised for the way we have controlled our finances and have at least tried to improve things weather or not people agree with Johns decisions is there own choice i certainly dont agree with alot of the things he has done but it has to be noted the guy is Grimsby through and through and at least maybe some respect has to be shown to him
Fair points but our finances are hardly under control! The club is losing almost 1 million a year. I understand we will lose the parachute payment from next year too, the youth grants gone? IMO we have to either accept we are a non league club and cut our cloth accordingly or we have to beg JF to keep pumping money into a great big hole. The new ground looks to be as far away as ever. Depressing stuff.
If it is John Fenty who has emailed the fishy, why don't you try and fix some of the problems that you have ultimately caused. Not hard to do really. For a man who has made over £20million pounds from albeit a family business you sure have ruined our great club. Your a joke. Regards Michael Yarborough.
[quote=75]Disappointing e-mail from John if I'm honest. I've a lot of time for the bloke, I know he is Town through and through but we are an utter shambles and I would have thought he could have rose above any nonsense on here.
The catering is shocking (I tried to buy a twix to go with my 'hot chocolate aka drainwater last Saturday to be told there was no chocolate left - it's hardly short dated! No beer pumps in the main stand bar, crap cans). Amateur, urine poor and obviously short sighted cost cutting gone too far.
I have to say that apart from Mcmenemy's the facilities are absolutely shite and the club should be ashamed. I remember using the main stand bar in the 70's and it was ok then, but i went in there with my brother last season against York and could not believe how poor it was. I expected to step back in time a bit but ffs it was almost victorian in there. For this I blame the people who run the club. It is without doubt pathetic
It's easy to say rise above it but people do go too far here sometimes. He obviously isn't against criticism, he's had his fair share of it over the years and hasn't done this before.
Personally, I'm guessing that this has to do with some of the posts about his motives when it comes to selling BP and the new ground. Some of those were bordering on slander and there's no place for that sort of stuff on here.
[quote=75]Disappointing e-mail from John if I'm honest. I've a lot of time for the bloke, I know he is Town through and through but we are an utter shambles and I would have thought he could have rose above any nonsense on here.
The catering is shocking (I tried to buy a twix to go with my 'hot chocolate aka drainwater last Saturday to be told there was no chocolate left - it's hardly short dated! No beer pumps in the main stand bar, crap cans). Amateur, urine poor and obviously short sighted cost cutting gone too far.
I have to say that apart from Mcmenemy's the facilities are absolutely shite and the club should be ashamed. I remember using the main stand bar in the 70's and it was ok then, but i went in there with my brother last season against York and could not believe how poor it was. I expected to step back in time a bit but ffs it was almost victorian in there. For this I blame the people who run the club. It is without doubt pathetic
Without doubt we have more to worry about than the lack of Mars bars and shite quality hot chocolate. Or warm canned beer but it is urine poor. The "Mariner's Kitchen" had a sign printed by Mad Harry's or some bloke off the market held on by blue tack. Got to say, it's the first time I've bothered getting a drink of a bite for years, the prices were shocking, the quality massively lacking but like I say, we've more important things to worry about. That said, is it a sign of what the clubs about nowadays?
It's easy to say rise above it but people do go too far here sometimes. He obviously isn't against criticism, he's had his fair share of it over the years and hasn't done this before.
Personally, I'm guessing that this has to do with some of the posts about his motives when it comes to selling BP and the new ground. Some of those were bordering on slander and there's no place for that sort of stuff on here.
Yes that's exactly it. People slate JF left, right and centre all the time; I think that the highlighted is exactly what has drunk him off and fair enough really.
Why can't he just ignore it like everybody else involved in football in the country or send a private message to the moderators? Unless you're a complete flipping idiot then you can see anybody suggesting he's getting rich from the money he has in Town is a half-wit. I don't think he has ulterior motives in his Chairmanship I just think he has done an abysmal job of running GTFC. Maybe he should display some humility and understand that people are angry about what has happened under his tenureship and sometimes a 'simpler' minority will spout balderdash on the internet. In the grand scheme of things who gives a intercourse what's written on The Fishy?
Only just got on the fishy and have half read this thread, people saying its a hoax though I think are wrong. I'm nearly certain that someone has mentioned before that Fenty is dyslexic which is why he has a lot of spelling errors.
For those suggesting Fenty should take responsibility and take the criticism for the direction the club has gone in:
He has clearly taken responsibility for this and to my mind can take the criticism too. It must be killing him that the club has sank so low during his chairmanship, but he knows he has done his best for the club. He's always worked hard and in what he's believed to be the best interests of the club. For this, he doesn't deserve the personal insults and wild suggestions of his motives or plans that seem to be made up on-the-spot to suit the individuals agenda.
Criticise all you want, that isn't what JF has written to Rob about.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
This entire thread is so embarrasing a facepalm doesn't do it justice.
My advice is to say what you like but be careful not to make potentially libellous accusations and don't believe everything you read.
I've noticed lots of people get very passionate, wound up and abusive, but does it ever improve things ? At the end of the day there's not much you can do about it...
For those suggesting Fenty should take responsibility and take the criticism for the direction the club has gone in:
He has clearly taken responsibility for this and to my mind can take the criticism too. It must be killing him that the club has sank so low during his chairmanship, but he knows he has done his best for the club. He's always worked hard and in what he's believed to be the best interests of the club. For this, he doesn't deserve the personal insults and wild suggestions of his motives or plans that seem to be made up on-the-spot to suit the individuals agenda.
Criticise all you want, that isn't what JF has written to Rob about.
Nail, head. Now, hopefully Rob has removed the offending posts so the posters that have caused this email to happen will cease. As I pointed out a couple of days ago, you can't post made up insulting garbage with impunity. Take some responsibility.
Do you think Fenty has seen his bottom because he keeps getting voted TOTW each week?
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Nail, head. Now, hopefully Rob has removed the offending posts so the posters that have caused this email to happen will cease. As I pointed out a couple of days ago, you can't post made up insulting garbage with impunity. Take some responsibility.
Its about time the mods took responsibility for this not just GrimRob then this wouldnt have got this far down the line as it has but its a case when it goes pear shape just pass the book Then instead of joining in do the job youre here for youve been quick to delete posts in the past so do it now if/when needed
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
Its about time the mods took responsibility for this not just GrimRob then this wouldnt have got this far down the line as it has but its a case when it goes pear shape just pass the book Then instead of joining in do the job youre here for youve been quick to delete posts in the past so do it now if/when needed
tbh i actually agree here, i have had loads of posts deleted and one of them said that mariners player is shocking and it got deleted and the amount of people on here who actually backed me up was outstanding. i think they treat the people who has been here for longer diffrently than the newer ones and its not fair it has to stop!
i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one
"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"
Just imagine the boot was on the other foot and all this personal criticism of you was put on a web site. Then some people started posting made up stories about you. How he puts up with all this abuse is beyond me.
Ask any man what nationality he would prefer to be, and ninety nine out of a hundred will tell you that they would prefer to be Englishmen.
Its about time the mods took responsibility for this not just GrimRob then this wouldnt have got this far down the line as it has but its a case when it goes pear shape just pass the book Then instead of joining in do the job youre here for youve been quick to delete posts in the past so do it now if/when needed
I'm not just here to moderate! I was a regular payer for years and I will be all the time the fishy is around. Obviously we've missed some things that jf has been incensed by. Our apologies go out to him. If you think that we have the time or inclination to babysit this site 24/7 you're sally mistaken. We do what we can, we use our judgement and if we miss things we as a group of moderators hold our hands up and say sorry. Now, those that spend a lot of time in here could also act as mods and raise contentious posts with us and we could look at them when time allows. If you, Tony, have an issue with the way I've posted in the past, in threads that you've been involved in or the way I asked you to remove that pic from your signature, you should also think about what your actions have made others feel. Not particularly libellous but certainly deeply offensive. There has to be some degree of responsibility from everyone on here. Rob could certainly lock this forum down tighter than a ducks chuff, Football365 insist on a work or education establishment email address to even register, and that site is moderated beyond belief. I'm pretty sure a lot of people in here wouldn't want that, as it would decimate the membership and removes anonymity completely. Let's go forward with a larger sense of responsibility and not lose this great asset we have. (Oh and it's pass the buck, not book.)
I'm not just here to moderate! I was a regular payer for years and I will be all the time the fishy is around. Obviously we've missed some things that jf has been incensed by. Our apologies go out to him. If you think that we have the time or inclination to babysit this site 24/7 you're sally mistaken. We do what we can, we use our judgement and if we miss things we as a group of moderators hold our hands up and say sorry. Now, those that spend a lot of time in here could also act as mods and raise contentious posts with us and we could look at them when time allows. If you, Tony, have an issue with the way I've posted in the past, in threads that you've been involved in or the way I asked you to remove that pic from your signature, you should also think about what your actions have made others feel. Not particularly libellous but certainly deeply offensive. There has to be some degree of responsibility from everyone on here. Rob could certainly lock this forum down tighter than a ducks chuff, Football365 insist on a work or education establishment email address to even register, and that site is moderated beyond belief. I'm pretty sure a lot of people in here wouldn't want that, as it would decimate the membership and removes anonymity completely. Let's go forward with a larger sense of responsibility and not lose this great asset we have. (Oh and it's pass the buck, not book.)
YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
I think you have tried your best but clearly, from overwhelming historical evidence running a football club is not your forté. The Fenty association with GTFC is not all negative though, I think Fiona does a sterling job in her ticket sales/club shop role. In fact, like your master stroke of elevating Neil Woods from children's coach to first team relegation from the football league manager, why not give Fiona the chairman's role? Personally, I used to watch GTFC between 30-35 times a season from being a young boy up until our last L2 game at Burton, since then, I have attended three games. I hold you (and others) responsible for destroying a love affair I've had with Grimsby Town since 1972 which has seen me visiting 86 league grounds as well as travelling to Ibiza, a Devon tournament and various other pre-season venues. I'm sure you're a wonderful person and a passionate fan of GTFC but there is overwhelming evidence that your association with the club has been a disaster. I have sadly become part of the 'missing 2000' fans and until your link with the club has been severed, I doubt if I'll return. Yours faithfully
i think it is fair to say that we do have a club at the moment because john fenty has put his money in the club, and i thank him for that,,it may also be the case that we dont in the futuer because he wont any more.i wont thank him for that,, There is no one out there that wants to put money into a sinking ship,, we cant keep hoping that there is , we have to face things as they are , i think personally that he is a controll freak and he will try to controll what is posted on this board if he can aswell, and can anyone tell me what affect the supporters trust can do to help things when they clearly dont have cash to put on the table .. words alone wont buy players or get a new ground ??
You can dress it up and start nit picking about all this by u did this that or the other it still doesnt address that you havent doing the job given to you and in doing nothing its lowered the people's expectations of the fishy and will/has put off people posting on it. GrimRob does admit about it all being left and nothing done but as usual others cant admit to their own mistakes
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
From now on any posts which libel Mr Fenty or any of the other GTFC board members will be removed. IP Addresses, names and e-mail addresses will be recorded and anyone who has been warned will be banned from the site. You may think you are hiding behind a made up name but you are not really.
well done,,and not before time!i refer you to my thread made yesterday
You can dress it up and start nit picking about all this by u did this that or the other it still doesnt address that you havent doing the job given to you and in doing nothing its lowered the people's expectations of the fishy and will/has put off people posting on it. GrimRob does admit about it all being left and nothing done but as usual others cant admit to their own mistakes
At the risk of "biting", you have absolutely no idea how many posts have been removed or edited by us so you're talking out of you're hat.
well done,,and not before time!i refer you to my thread made yesterday
Well done Flash mate but all this will be done for say a couple of days then the slippery slope will start again by them letting people posting what they want and doing NOTHING about it or even join in like they have done in the past
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
I think people are missing the point of his email somewhat. He's not kicking up a fuss at people having a go at him, in fact he admits that he's failed in there. It is people suggesting that he is trying to con the club that he takes offence to because there's absolutely no reason to believe that he is looking to take his loans back. At the end of the day, say he's failed - because it's true - but don't try to tarnish his name by giving him constant abuse.
Some people on here need to get a life, he worked hard to get the kind of money most of us could only dream of and what did he do with it? Put it into the club we all love. It's easy to say that you'd do the same, but is it worth keeping a club going to get so much abuse from a small section of the fans?
I think a few people on here are getting carried away. There was only around 20 people who contributed to the posts any way - hardly a sample of Town fans opinions. I suggest that some people on here take themselves too seriously. Its just YOUR opinion ffs
If contributors are still allowed to have an opinion - fine, however if we're only allowed to tow the party line then you might as well close down The Fishy.
I think a few people on here are getting carried away. There was only around 20 people who contributed to the posts any way - hardly a sample of Town fans opinions. I suggest that some people on here take themselves too seriously. Its just YOUR opinion ffs
Fair point. And I can see how JF would be upset at some posts but I'm disappointed he doesn't just ignore them and there does seem to be an element of media control here - something we have seen before.
The stupid posts are generally made by stupid people who do well to boot up their PC so I wouldn't worry about them.
Unfortunately the Fishy has for a number of reasons lost some of its best posters over the last year or so and has also become much more vitriolic. It used to be that posters didn't take themselves too seriously and there was a lot of light hearted banter. Despite what people think football is still only a game, and other things are more important.
I do think John has made mistakes in getting us to this position but you cannot fault his love for the club or the amount of financial backing he has put in. Put it another way a £800,000 loss equates to subsidising each match day ticket by about £10.
Would we be in a better position if John had not bankrolled the club for the last 10 years. Its anybodys guess, but we are where we are. The only way forward if no one else is prepared to put money in is with John Fenty remaining as Chairman. Lets hope our fortunes change. We have young managers building a young team and they need time to get it right.
Utterly unnecessary from Fenty - as is usually the case with his public statements.
It says a lot about the club and the man himself that he cannot rise above such childish internet drivel and feels the need to take such a threatening and heavy-handed approach.
People on here talk about the potential death of GTFC but as far as I am concerned that has already happened. I still support them (I'll be there tomorrow) but the fire and passion has been wiped away by the misery of the last ten years. Rightly or wrongly, I blame JF for that, and I for one hope the man never gets near the chairmanship again.
Feel free to pass that on to John, Rob.
Its one thing to blame him even if other things over the years may have had some bearing, however its totally wrong to abuse JF to the extent of some of the keyboard warriers on here
Its one thing to blame him even if other things over the years may have had some bearing, however its totally wrong to abuse JF to the extent of some of the keyboard warriers on here
Personal abuse is undeniably wrong and out of order but criticism of his leadership (and I use that term lightly) is totally justified....all my opinion of course
I think people are missing the point of his email somewhat. He's not kicking up a fuss at people having a go at him, in fact he admits that he's failed in there. It is people suggesting that he is trying to con the club that he takes offence to because there's absolutely no reason to believe that he is looking to take his loans back. At the end of the day, say he's failed - because it's true - but don't try to tarnish his name by giving him constant abuse.
Some people on here need to get a life, he worked hard to get the kind of money most of us could only dream of and what did he do with it? Put it into the club we all love. It's easy to say that you'd do the same, but is it worth keeping a club going to get so much abuse from a small section of the fans?
I was going to post some thoughts here, but this post said everything I'm thinking. If John Fenty ends his financial support of Grimsby Town we will probably end up as a part time club and that will be the end of any aspiration to return to what we all still believe is our rightful place in the football league. Reading between the lines of his post, I honestly think he's contemplating this. I know I would be, and I love Grimsby Town as much as any of you.
I was going to post some thoughts here, but this post said everything I'm thinking. If John Fenty ends his financial support of Grimsby Town we will probably end up as a part time club and that will be the end of any aspiration to return to what we all still believe is our rightful place in the football league. Reading between the lines of his post, I honestly think he's contemplating this. I know I would be, and I love Grimsby Town as much as any of you.
But what good has that financial support done?
We would have to cut our cloth,and manage perfectly well like all the other well run clubs have on lower gates who have overtaken us.
We cant be held to ransom for ever because of one mans money surely?
In hindsight you might be right, but all any chairman can do is appoint a manager and support him with the funds to do his job. Personally, I would much prefer Town to compete with a budget that gives them a chance of challenging for promotion, wouldn't you? The most disastrous managerial appointment John Fenty made was Mike Newell, and that appointment was greeted with enthusiasm and excitement on here. None of us can see the future, we can only do our best. In my opinion, the other two real mistakes that he made were to penny pinch on Russell Slade's salary at just the wrong time and to sack Neil Woods as he was in the middle of putting together a team that would have been a real challenger this season with a couple of key summer acquisitions. Instead, we ended up assembling yet another brand new squad with another new management team which may or may not pay off in the end if given the time to find out. But John Fenty is just as much of a Grimsby Town fan as any of us and the personal abuse and sarcasm he has to take on here is simply ridiculous. It's the Nick Colgan/Peter Bore syndrome all over again except that this is much more serious as the entire future of our team is a stake. I just think people need to think far more carefully before they post.
In hindsight you might be right, but all any chairman can do is appoint a manager and support him with the funds to do his job. Personally, I would much prefer Town to compete with a budget that gives them a chance of challenging for promotion, wouldn't you? The most disastrous managerial appointment John Fenty made was Mike Newell, and that appointment was greeted with enthusiasm and excitement on here. None of us can see the future, we can only do our best. In my opinion, the other two real mistakes that he made were to penny pinch on Russell Slade's salary at just the wrong time and to sack Neil Woods as he was in the middle of putting together a team that would have been a real challenger this season with a couple of key summer acquisitions. Instead, we ended up assembling yet another brand new squad with another new management team which may or may not pay off in the end if given the time to find out. But John Fenty is just as much of a Grimsby Town fan as any of us and the personal abuse and sarcasm he has to take on here is simply ridiculous. It's the Nick Colgan/Peter Bore syndrome all over again except that this is much more serious as the entire future of our team is a stake. I just think people need to think far more carefully before they post.
Well said, I agree with that.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Is Mr Fenty open to constructive criticism and what are the implications for those who do give abuse please?
Of choose he is, it's the made up "facts"he has objected to as well as the personal abuse. Posts will be removed if appropriate and the offending member warned, then banned if there are further instances.
Is Mr Fenty open to constructive criticism and what are the implications for those who do give abuse please?
The mods totally ignore whats been said and will join in to keep in with the crowd
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
The thing is some posters on here post utter drivel, but at the end of their day its there opinion.
You only have to go to game and listen to some of the utter s.hit people shout at the games, some of them are no doubt on here, its best just to ignore them and carry on as its only small section.
Although he has to take some if not most of the responsibility for the state of the club, I do feel for John as we all know he's Town through and through.
They've all been disastrous !!! What about Graham Rodger, Nicky Law, Paul Groves !!! Absolute poo !
I think JF was on the board when Grovesy was appointed but I may be wrong. Anyway, Groves had no chance at all - I know the ITV Digital thing is trotted out even now but it was a reason, not an excuse for our lack of being able to compete at all at Championship level. The ongoing wage commitments the season after (at least) did mean we had to give our players away (and I suspect pay some off to leave) which meant division 4 was always likely.
Come to think of it, Nicky Law too? Not sure if JF appointed him. Course, he would argue it was a board decision.
Oh dear, this has turned the clock back a few years.
However, as the "alledged" libellous threads have been removed, comment upon them can no longer be viewed as a balanced argument. As a subscriber, I will now need to research if that is against my Human Rights.
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." (Jimi Hendrix)
I think a lot of people have jumped to conclusions here. I've no doubt I'll get shouted down but I am typing this from neither a pro nor an anti fenty viewpoint. I just think people need to be more objective and look at these few points.
Firstly, the original email was from John to Rob, it was not an open letter to users of the fishy. The fact that Rob chose to copy and paste the email rather than summarise it in a post was Rob's decision and isn't fenty "throwing his toys out" as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Secondly, I think a lot of you have confused criticism (and even abuse) with liable/slander. John has admitted that things haven't been rosy (a large understatement IMO) and doesn't object to this. He objects to scurrilous rumours and untruths that have been posted. For instance it would be quite acceptable to say "fenty is a rich man with a pretty daughter who's tenure as chairman coincided with the club's demise to non-league football" all of these can be backed up with evidence. You can't however say something like (and I hasten to add I'm using this as an example) "John is the franchisee of the McDonalds outside BP and thus keeps the catering inside BP low-rate" this cannot be backed up by any form of evidence.
Lastly, the mods have been asked to remove libelous messages, this does not get rid of our freedom of speech but merely keeps Rob from being sued and this forum and website being shut down.
Sorry to rant on but I think a lot of you need to look at things objectively before spouting off.
Panic on the streets of Carlisle, Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
I think a lot of people have jumped to conclusions here. I've no doubt I'll get shouted down but I am typing this from neither a pro nor an anti fenty viewpoint. I just think people need to be more objective and look at these few points.
Firstly, the original email was from John to Rob, it was not an open letter to users of the fishy. The fact that Rob chose to copy and paste the email rather than summarise it in a post was Rob's decision and isn't fenty "throwing his toys out" as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Secondly, I think a lot of you have confused criticism (and even abuse) with liable/slander. John has admitted that things haven't been rosy (a large understatement IMO) and doesn't object to this. He objects to scurrilous rumours and untruths that have been posted. For instance it would be quite acceptable to say "fenty is a rich man with a pretty daughter who's tenure as chairman coincided with the club's demise to non-league football" all of these can be backed up with evidence. You can't however say something like (and I hasten to add I'm using this as an example) "John is the franchisee of the McDonalds outside BP and thus keeps the catering inside BP low-rate" this cannot be backed up by any form of evidence.
Lastly, the mods have been asked to remove libelous messages, this does not get rid of our freedom of speech but merely keeps Rob from being sued and this forum and website being shut down.
Sorry to rant on but I think a lot of you need to look at things objectively before spouting off.
How many shareholders in a business in the real world would allow the CEO, MD, Chairman to behave in the way John Fenty has?
Awful record on recruitment, wasted money all over the place & PR that can only be compared to that of Gerald Ratner.
John, stay away from all forms of media, including messageboards. That way you may be able to concentrate on finding a rudder to steer OUR battered wreck of a club back into calmer waters.
Here comes the action Here it comes at last Lord give me reaction Lord give me a chance
[quote=93]How many shareholders in a business in the real world would allow the CEO, MD, Chairman to behave in the way John Fenty has?
Awful record on recruitment, wasted money all over the place & PR that can only be compared to that of Gerald Ratner.
John, stay away from all forms of media, including messageboards. That way you may be able to concentrate on finding a rudder to steer OUR battered wreck of a club back into calmer waters. [/quote Im not a good swimmer but are you sort of saying fenty moored the boat on a sandbank and damaged it badly
Dogs are smelly creatures full of there own importance
Regards the statement, I have always thought we were lucky to have Fenty, he has though proved useless at choosing a manager, some truly awful decisions.
However I do think his statement is completely OTT, are we sure it's from him, was he sober when he wrote it? The latter is a serious question. I ask as the spelling is truly awful. As a man in power etc I cannot believe more care is not taken, I also can't believe he does not get better advice than to write communications like this.
Never mind at least in future criticism, if its allowed, may be more constructive!!!
Reading this thread there is much confusion about what you are now allowed to post. The simple matter is if it is an opinion you can post it even if it is very critical (e.g. John Fenty has been a poor chairman). But you can't post something which isn't true (e.g. John Fenty is a major shareholder in Scunthorpe United football club).
This might help (my italics): Libel is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Reading this thread there is much confusion about what you are now allowed to post. The simple matter is if it is an opinion you can post it even if it is very critical (e.g. John Fenty has been a poor chairman). But you can't post something which isn't true (e.g. John Fenty is a major shareholder in Scunthorpe United football club).
This might help (my italics): Libel is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image
So basically you can put whatever you like and then add in my opinion at the end to make it fine?
I think a lot of people have jumped to conclusions here. I've no doubt I'll get shouted down but I am typing this from neither a pro nor an anti fenty viewpoint. I just think people need to be more objective and look at these few points.
Firstly, the original email was from John to Rob, it was not an open letter to users of the fishy. The fact that Rob chose to copy and paste the email rather than summarise it in a post was Rob's decision and isn't fenty "throwing his toys out" as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Secondly, I think a lot of you have confused criticism (and even abuse) with liable/slander. John has admitted that things haven't been rosy (a large understatement IMO) and doesn't object to this. He objects to scurrilous rumours and untruths that have been posted. For instance it would be quite acceptable to say "fenty is a rich man with a pretty daughter who's tenure as chairman coincided with the club's demise to non-league football" all of these can be backed up with evidence. You can't however say something like (and I hasten to add I'm using this as an example) "John is the franchisee of the McDonalds outside BP and thus keeps the catering inside BP low-rate" this cannot be backed up by any form of evidence.
Lastly, the mods have been asked to remove libelous messages, this does not get rid of our freedom of speech but merely keeps Rob from being sued and this forum and website being shut down.
Sorry to rant on but I think a lot of you need to look at things objectively before spouting off.
Have to say I agree.
Think we're in danger of leaping from an issue of irresponsible claims with potential legal implications to a subjective grey area and slippery slope of what's "morally acceptable", just because people can't accept it or bring themselves to turn the other cheek or ignor it.
My opinion on the issue very loosely relates to Brian Clough's thoughts in this interview (from 3:16):
I do get bored of reading the endless swearing, moaning and "abuse" (how is that defined?) myself, but at the end of the day surely it's people's right, and surrender that at your own peril. You've also got to ask is the forum for JF's benefit or for all GTFC supporters to have their freedom of speech.
Ultimately up to the website owners to decide yes but if it's a case of "If you don't ****** like it dont come" then think we'll all wonder if it's a case of "only post if you're willing to agree and tow the party line". If it should come to that maybe I'll just post on the OS without being lectured about right and wrong or having to think too much about what I should say, think or do.
But I'm hopeful maybe we can ALL vounteer(not be told) to show a bit more respect and goodwill to each other to create a more enjoyable FOOTBALL (remember that?) discussion community. I'm sure we'd all enjoy our time a lot more ?
I do feel it might help the community as a whole if everyone (through our own choice), occasionally restrained their INSTINCT to rant or slag off others. Not saying people shouldn't criticize or show anger, passion or vent their spleen but I get the impresssion some lose their rag far too often and want a reason to do it with every opportunity they get.
I think some people are missing the point here (or, I suspect, choosing to miss the point). Fenty was Chairman for around 8 yrs and had been on or around the board for a few years before that. During that time he has been consistently criticised on this board but has never resorted to making this kind of statement.
The reason he has is because some people have quite clearly crossed the line - the originator of the thread about the value of BP (and a number of contributers) seemed to quite clearly question his motives and infer that JF intended to, at best, recoup his loans and, at worst, make a tidy personal profit in a move to a new stadium. This was done with no more evidence than a newspaper report.
This board is the public domain in just the same way as the broadcast media and the law applies to you as much as anyone else! Criticism is fine but libel is not.
Having said that, I really think Fenty needs either to employ someone or use someone he trusts to not only proof read everything he puts into the public domain but also to give an honest opinion of the content! There is nothing to be ashamed about being dyslexic but it leaves you open to the ridicule I've read on this and Grim Outlook from some people who really should know better.
Seems all a bit silly to me threatening legal action,the best course of action would have been to ignore it. By doing this he's anly adding fuel to the fire.
Saying that all of us at Lincoln think he's done a magnificent job and hope he continues to carry on.
Our CEO does not take any notice of the drivel on the net and ignores it and just gets on with his job.
I think a lot of people have jumped to conclusions here. I've no doubt I'll get shouted down but I am typing this from neither a pro nor an anti fenty viewpoint. I just think people need to be more objective and look at these few points.
Firstly, the original email was from John to Rob, it was not an open letter to users of the fishy. The fact that Rob chose to copy and paste the email rather than summarise it in a post was Rob's decision and isn't fenty "throwing his toys out" as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Secondly, I think a lot of you have confused criticism (and even abuse) with liable/slander. John has admitted that things haven't been rosy (a large understatement IMO) and doesn't object to this. He objects to scurrilous rumours and untruths that have been posted. For instance it would be quite acceptable to say "fenty is a rich man with a pretty daughter who's tenure as chairman coincided with the club's demise to non-league football" all of these can be backed up with evidence. You can't however say something like (and I hasten to add I'm using this as an example) "John is the franchisee of the McDonalds outside BP and thus keeps the catering inside BP low-rate" this cannot be backed up by any form of evidence.
Lastly, the mods have been asked to remove libelous messages, this does not get rid of our freedom of speech but merely keeps Rob from being sued and this forum and website being shut down.
Sorry to rant on but I think a lot of you need to look at things objectively before spouting off.
"I am happy for you to post this email"
Not the words of someone sending a private email. Fenty knew exactly what would happen to his email.
As I said above, it is a very small number of posters who have got anywhere near being libellous and they could have been individually warned by the mods, who could also have reset the perameters of what is and is not acceptable use of language through a statement of their own. All of which would have avoided this rather unnecessary public threat of legal action etc.
I assume when you say people are 'spouting off' you mean 'presenting a view I don't agree with'. Is this view any less objective than yours? I am happy to proclaim myself as anti-Fenty but would like to think that I can also comment on indiviual events, such as this, with a degree of rational thought.
Surely Martin Butler is a complete and utter twit, something for which there is plenty of evidence. When does opinion become fact?
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
During the last few seasons we have been total crap and lost our league status and now lose regulary to teams who get 300 or less home gate is that fact or opinion,im off to curl up now on the sofa
Dogs are smelly creatures full of there own importance
During the last few seasons we have been total crap and lost our league status and now lose regulary to teams who get 300 or less home gate is that fact or opinion,im off to curl up now on the sofa
It's a fact and it's actually wrong. When did we last lose to a team who gets less than 300 home gate?
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Not the words of someone sending a private email. Fenty knew exactly what would happen to his email.
As I said above, it is a very small number of posters who have got anywhere near being libellous and they could have been individually warned by the mods, who could also have reset the perameters of what is and is not acceptable use of language through a statement of their own. All of which would have avoided this rather unnecessary public threat of legal action etc.
I assume when you say people are 'spouting off' you mean 'presenting a view I don't agree with'. Is this view any less objective than yours? I am happy to proclaim myself as anti-Fenty but would like to think that I can also comment on indiviual events, such as this, with a degree of rational thought.
By spouting off I mean opening their mouths (or in this case keyboard) without thinking about what they're saying/typing - as you put it rational thought.
I said at the start of my post that I knew I'd get shot down for saying it, I said that because as humans our opinions differ on a vast number of subjects, I am fortunate to have a modicum of intelligence so appreciate other's views whether I agree with them or not. I don't however feel it is right to slander people - reading your previous posts you seem like you're in the same boat as me, not necessarily from our viewpoints regarding the club but certainly in being able to listen to other's opinions without resorting to petty name calling.
Hope this clears this up for you
Rob
Panic on the streets of Carlisle, Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
I think we need clarification of what can and can't be said about Fenty.
I have looked up Libel in a dictionary and it is defined as follows:
anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.
Basically, a statement can only be libelous if it can be proved beyond doubt to be untrue in court.
With this in mind can I say without fear of writ that John Fenty has proven himself to be a vuseless Chairman of Grimsby Town FC and the blame for our dropping out of the league rests squarely at his feet. I can only guess that making money in the Fish processing industry is easy because his running of GTFC, the continuing huge financial losses and it's huge debt indicate he has very little business sense.
I think we need clarification of what can and can't be said about Fenty.
.
The libelous stuff is saying/suggesting/alluding that Fenty has been commiting some sort of con and plans to benefit from the clubs downfall as this isn't fact but people thinking they are some sort of Derren Brown figure who know what Fenty's thoughts and ambitions are and then relay them on here. As I see it the real problem most people have is mistaking Fenty being unsuccessful as the chairman of the football club with Fenty being some sort of liar so when he says that the loans he has put into the club are "benign" they read it as exactly the opposite with bells on.
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
The libelous stuff is saying/suggesting/alluding that Fenty has been commiting some sort of con and plans to benefit from the clubs downfall as this isn't fact but people thinking they are some sort of Derren Brown figure who know what Fenty's thoughts and ambitions are and then relay them on here. As I see it the real problem most people have is mistaking Fenty being unsuccessful as the chairman of the football club with Fenty being some sort of liar so when he says that the loans he has put into the club are "benign" they read it as exactly the opposite with bells on.
The problem is Fenty and certain people don't seem to understand what benign actually means. It means favourable, mild, gentle and/or non-threatening. Has Fenty's £2 million or so of loans in the club been any of that? Just because Fenty's says we wouldn't demand repayment in a way that would risk the existance of the club doesn't make his debt "benign".
Grimsby Town FC's huge "benign" debts and continuing losses have caused Barclay's to convert a £500,000 overdraft into a loan repayable over 5 years. A huge amount for a business which spent 113% of turnover last financial year on Staff costs alone and lost almost £1,000,000 in the process.
Fenty's past "benign" debts to Five Star Fish have meant that the club has had to contribute £537,500 to pension payments and still has to find another £112,500 when the club is in real terms insolvent. This has had a direct and negative impact on the clubs profit and loss accounts- which were bad enough as it was.
Potential investors look at Profit and Loss and debt when looking at a business. Do you think anyone with any sense would invest in our club at present?
Is this huge debt and it consequences on the business really "benign"?
I think some people are missing the point here (or, I suspect, choosing to miss the point). Fenty was Chairman for around 8 yrs and had been on or around the board for a few years before that. During that time he has been consistently criticised on this board but has never resorted to making this kind of statement.
The reason he has is because some people have quite clearly crossed the line - the originator of the thread about the value of BP (and a number of contributers) seemed to quite clearly question his motives and infer that JF intended to, at best, recoup his loans and, at worst, make a tidy personal profit in a move to a new stadium. This was done with no more evidence than a newspaper report.
This board is the public domain in just the same way as the broadcast media and the law applies to you as much as anyone else! Criticism is fine but libel is not.
Having said that, I really think Fenty needs either to employ someone or use someone he trusts to not only proof read everything he puts into the public domain but also to give an honest opinion of the content! There is nothing to be ashamed about being dyslexic but it leaves you open to the ridicule I've read on this and Grim Outlook from some people who really should know better.
The problem is Fenty and certain people don't seem to understand what benign actually means. It means favourable, mild, gentle and/or non-threatening. Has Fenty's £2 million or so of loans in the club been any of that? Just because Fenty's says we wouldn't demand repayment in a way that would risk the existance of the club doesn't make his debt "benign".
Grimsby Town FC's huge "benign" debts and continuing losses have caused Barclay's to convert a £500,000 overdraft into a loan repayable over 5 years. A huge amount for a business which spent 113% of turnover last financial year on Staff costs alone and lost almost £1,000,000 in the process.
Fenty's past "benign" debts to Five Star Fish have meant that the club has had to contribute £537,500 to pension payments and still has to find another £112,500 when the club is in real terms insolvent. This has had a direct and negative impact on the clubs profit and loss accounts- which were bad enough as it was.
Potential investors look at Profit and Loss and debt when looking at a business. Do you think anyone with any sense would invest in our club at present?
Is this huge debt and it consequences on the business really "benign"?
When any loans are secured on the ground then as a football fan you have to be worried. Scrap the loans and free the club!
Do you Fentys really sit of an evening wondering what Town fans have the temerity to question John Fentys motives?
Shouldnt he be putting all his energies into writing an apology to us fans,the true heart of GTFC, for the almighty member ups that have led us to this position?
When he has done that perhaps he would be kind enough to let us know how he intends to make a positive difference to our fortunes.
If he wont / cant then perhaps it would be better if we take our chances without him - it might galvanise the club to find some pride and fighting spirit again.
I think some people are missing the point here (or, I suspect, choosing to miss the point).
If you're referring to me, I haven't missed the point at all.
Fenty and libel is one thing but I'm talking about posters like you who seemingly show very little interest(if any) in the football and seem to spend all their time trying to take the moral highground lecturing others about what they should be saying, what they should be thinking etc etc (IMO)
Read this thread from start to finish and have no clue what on earth the point of it is?I conclude that every time Mr Fenty sends out a message another little piece of my heart for GTFC dies and i suspect im not alone but whatever the FACT remains he is without doubt the worst Chairman we have ever had.
Read this thread from start to finish and have no clue what on earth the point of it is?I conclude that every time Mr Fenty sends out a message another little piece of my heart for GTFC dies and i suspect im not alone but whatever the FACT remains he is without doubt the worst Chairman we have ever had.
ahh is it fact hes the worst chairman i tell you what though mickey i agree with you 100% im losing interest in the only football club i trully love and will ever love because of the comic capers that keep coming from the powers that be (including parker).but like headingly mariner says while those loans hang over the club i dont see a way out never
This might help (my italics): Libel is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give a product a negative image
Isn't it a bit late to worry about giving Grimsby Town FC PLC a negative image
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
Fenty, you have guided the good ship GTFC from championship to the brink of regional, semi-pro football in your ten year tenure of the club and now from where I amk sat and ONLY MY OPINION, it seems you are getting so desperate that you are attempting to bully fans in to keeping quiet!
To me this seems to sum up the whole enterprise of you and GTFC. . . shambolic at best, downright incompetent.
You have been in charge when GTFC has been practicallky destroyed.
Years ago you made a ridiculous statement about not wanting to devalue the product. . . .Well Jonny boy yopu have beyond our wildest dreams well done. . . . now sue me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From now on any posts which libel Mr Fenty or any of the other GTFC board members will be removed. IP Addresses, names and e-mail addresses will be recorded and anyone who has been warned will be banned from the site. You may think you are hiding behind a made up name but you are not really.
So do you have a law degree or are you a Barrister? I thought it was up to a court to decide what is and what isn't libelous. What your doing is stopping free speech IMO
If Fenty and his minions think there is someone libeling him on here let him take them to court and let them to decide.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
So do you have a law degree or are you a Barrister? I thought it was up to a court to decide what is and what isn't libelous. What your doing is stopping free speech IMO
If Fenty and his minions think there is someone libeling him on here let him take them to court and let them to decide.
Does the originator of this board need to be a barrister to decide whether something should be removed? Stifling free speech is the worst he could be accused of. If I was Rob I'd be watching the board like the proverbial hawk now. If stuff is libellous then the board administrators may have to take some of the legal flak. A tall order for them when we are talking about people who cannot engage their brains before typing whilst hiding behind a user name.....
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
Does the originator of this board need to be a barrister to decide whether something should be removed? Stifling free speech is the worst he could be accused of. If I was Rob I'd be watching the board like the proverbial hawk now. If stuff is libellous then the board administrators may have to take some of the legal flak. A tall order for them when we are talking about people who cannot engage their brains before typing whilst hiding behind a user name.....
Quite. Thing is though, there's no point in sueing someone for libel if they haven't got any net worth. So if you're totally skint, just say what the fcuk you like.
Does the originator of this board need to be a barrister to decide whether something should be removed? Stifling free speech is the worst he could be accused of. If I was Rob I'd be watching the board like the proverbial hawk now. If stuff is libellous then the board administrators may have to take some of the legal flak. A tall order for them when we are talking about people who cannot engage their brains before typing whilst hiding behind a user name.....
We don't need to be barristers. If you read what I said the criteria for removing a post are pretty simple - don't make a factually incorrect statement about John Fenty (and other employees or board members). You can say whatever you want as long as it's an opinion. But if you lie about Fenty or someone similar it can't be allowed. Basically as other people have said on here that means almost everything that has ever been said on this forum is ok, but a few people have recently crossed the line and twisted facts so that they no longer resemble the truth. That's not stifling free speech at all, it's the law of the land, and no other web site, newpaper or forum would be able to legally publish them either! We don't need to watch like a hawk, it's not unreasonable for us to take a while to notice something, but if anyone keeps posting things that can't be proved then they will be banned (nobody has yet done so) and copies of their posts retained.
Don't forget also that the original posts that Fenty objected to are still hanging over the authors and the Fishy as well, as stated in his e-mail. The fact that they have not been removed from the public eye does not mean that they have gone away. One of the authors I know has contacted Fenty personally to discus it which is probably what should have happened in the first place.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
We don't need to be barristers. If you read what I said the criteria for removing a post are pretty simple - don't make a factually incorrect statement about John Fenty (and other employees or board members). You can say whatever you want as long as it's an opinion. But if you lie about Fenty or someone similar it can't be allowed. Basically as other people have said on here that means almost everything that has ever been said on this forum is ok, but a few people have recently crossed the line and twisted facts so that they no longer resemble the truth. That's not stifling free speech at all, it's the law of the land, and no other web site, newpaper or forum would be able to legally publish them either! We don't need to watch like a hawk, it's not unreasonable for us to take a while to notice something, but if anyone keeps posting things that can't be proved then they will be banned (nobody has yet done so) and copies of their posts retained.
Don't forget also that the original posts that Fenty objected to are still hanging over the authors and the Fishy as well, as stated in his e-mail. The fact that they have not been removed from the public eye does not mean that they have gone away. One of the authors I know has contacted Fenty personally to discus it which is probably what should have happened in the first place.
What part of the post removed earlier on the previous page was a lie or twisted truth?
We don't need to be barristers. If you read what I said the criteria for removing a post are pretty simple - don't make a factually incorrect statement about John Fenty (and other employees or board members). You can say whatever you want as long as it's an opinion. But if you lie about Fenty or someone similar it can't be allowed. Basically as other people have said on here that means almost everything that has ever been said on this forum is ok, but a few people have recently crossed the line and twisted facts so that they no longer resemble the truth. That's not stifling free speech at all, it's the law of the land, and no other web site, newpaper or forum would be able to legally publish them either! We don't need to watch like a hawk, it's not unreasonable for us to take a while to notice something, but if anyone keeps posting things that can't be proved then they will be banned (nobody has yet done so) and copies of their posts retained.
Don't forget also that the original posts that Fenty objected to are still hanging over the authors and the Fishy as well, as stated in his e-mail. The fact that they have not been removed from the public eye does not mean that they have gone away. One of the authors I know has contacted Fenty personally to discus it which is probably what should have happened in the first place.
Rob, this isn't just about Fenty and GTFC board members. Contributors to any forum should refrain from libelling ANYONE.
What part of the post removed earlier on the previous page was a lie or twisted truth?
Anything which insinuates that Fenty is trying to sell the ground, or in some way get back his loans, directly contradicts anything which he has ever said which is that the loans are benign and he does not expect to get his money back. If you have an issue with the company accounts raise it at the AGM or ask John Fenty directly.
Incidentally saying things like the benign loans are stopping other "investors" coming into the club is fine as that is an opinion.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Rob, this isn't just about Fenty and GTFC board members. Contributors to any forum should refrain from libelling ANYONE.
True, and that's in our forum rules, although obviously at the moment the moderators are paying close attention about Fenty (as at one time they were about Mike Newell).
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
We ought to thank him really - the number of hits this board has recorded has shot up since his latest outburst.
I would thank him even more if he decides not to stand for re-election as a director at the AGM and therefore does not then find his way back into the chairmans seat.
It is a great shame that proxy voters cannot vote in a 'show of hands' vote at the AGM and can only express the view of the shareholder who appointed them in the event of a card vote - I may therefore have to try to get to the AGM somehow simply to be seen to vote against Fenty (even if mine is the only hand raised) when his re-election as a director comes up.
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
Don't forget also that the original posts that Fenty objected to are still hanging over the authors and the Fishy as well, as stated in his e-mail. The fact that they have not been removed from the public eye does not mean that they have gone away. One of the authors I know has contacted Fenty personally to discus it which is probably what should have happened in the first place.
If I recall correctly the posts in the thread that Codalmighty Tee-shirt Man referred to were opinions based on what he knew of the situation. They may be right, they may be wrong, but they're opinions. What bit of it was a lie?
I think Fenty has done himself no favours with this outburst. A simple denial of the hypothesis posted would have been better.
Also I don't see how that post related to anything libellous about "the staff" at GTFC.
If I recall correctly the posts in the thread that Codalmighty Tee-shirt Man referred to were opinions based on what he knew of the situation. They may be right, they may be wrong, but they're opinions. What bit of it was a lie? .
You'll have to ask Fenty exactly which part he objected to (he doesn't say in his e-mail). But the last thing we are going to allow is to quote selective parts of a thread for which a complaint has been received to be resubmitted.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
You'll have to ask Fenty exactly which part he objected to (he doesn't say in his e-mail). But the last thing we are going to allow is to quote selective parts of a thread for which a complaint has been received to be resubmitted.
You'll have to ask Fenty exactly which part he objected to (he doesn't say in his e-mail). But the last thing we are going to allow is to quote selective parts of a thread for which a complaint has been received to be resubmitted.
So, Fenty is allowed to email you and demand any post he doesn't like is removed without saying what he objects to? Grow a pair of balls Rob.
You'll have to ask Fenty exactly which part he objected to (he doesn't say in his e-mail). But the last thing we are going to allow is to quote selective parts of a thread for which a complaint has been received to be resubmitted.
Well if the mods were doing what they are suppose to do it wouldnt havent got out of hand like this.To be honest its not rocket science to delete a post/thread that might be deemed as libel/slander because when it suits them its been done within 10 mins in one case
• In addition, it was requested for anyone involved with GTST to step away from the negativity, and refrain from getting involved in any nastiness and backbiting that seems commonplace on messageboards.
AN EPITAPH FOR ALL GTST MEMBERS
Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.
Leaving aside the content, the thing that is most distressing about the John Fenty post and subsequent thread is that we're now seeing Town fans arguing amongst themselves. Personally I very much appreciate those who run and moderate The Fishy and the hard work they put in, just as much as I enjoy the lively debate and comments of the vast majority of posters on here. I think we would do well to take on board what has been said but move on and not start fighting among ourselves and risk undermining the value of this fans forum at such a difficult time in the clubs history.
Everyone should always consider the effects their posts have on others, whoever they may be, but we should continue to have a forum that allows people to voice their opinion. The vast majority of posts are not libellous and perhaps Mr. Fenty's 'post' should serve as a partial reminder to all of us about the 'acceptable use' of any such 'media', which will need to be revisited now and again. With the club in such a dire position, the last thing we need is for this site to disintegrate through in-fighting.
This site should be one that empowers fans in some small way and in showing a bit more dignity and maturity in not responding to ANY form of behaviour that might be viewed as libellous, OR aggressive and controlling, it could provide a sounder footing for future dialogue and impact.
I think a lot of people have jumped to conclusions here. I've no doubt I'll get shouted down but I am typing this from neither a pro nor an anti fenty viewpoint. I just think people need to be more objective and look at these few points.
Firstly, the original email was from John to Rob, it was not an open letter to users of the fishy. The fact that Rob chose to copy and paste the email rather than summarise it in a post was Rob's decision and isn't fenty "throwing his toys out" as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Secondly, I think a lot of you have confused criticism (and even abuse) with liable/slander. John has admitted that things haven't been rosy (a large understatement IMO) and doesn't object to this. He objects to scurrilous rumours and untruths that have been posted. For instance it would be quite acceptable to say "fenty is a rich man with a pretty daughter who's tenure as chairman coincided with the club's demise to non-league football" all of these can be backed up with evidence. You can't however say something like (and I hasten to add I'm using this as an example) "John is the franchisee of the McDonalds outside BP and thus keeps the catering inside BP low-rate" this cannot be backed up by any form of evidence.
Lastly, the mods have been asked to remove libelous messages, this does not get rid of our freedom of speech but merely keeps Rob from being sued and this forum and website being shut down.
Sorry to rant on but I think a lot of you need to look at things objectively before spouting off.
you've summed it up excellently. keyboard warriors making a mountain out of a molehill. suspect they wouldn't be so voiceferous if they were in rob's shoes (or should that be smelly running shoes? )
I have been asked to look at this thread by some friends who were concerned about the fact that the ex-chairman of a once great football club has once again made a complete plonker of himself (in their opinion of course) in his dealing with the media (whether this be the local newspaper, the official website or a fans forum). Firstly they mentioned the fact that, they believed, your dealings with the local radio station(s) damaged the public impression of the football club, further more your reluctance to offer a contract to Russell Slade damaged the financial impression of the football club, this is however conjecture as it is not possible to prove that with Mr Slade in charge GTFC would have remained in the football league. From here you appointed Mike Newell…need I say more? You then promoted Neil Woods, who I think it is fair to say, was seen as a fans favourite from his playing days by most supporters, to first team manager, stating that he would have the full support of the board and that you believed he had moved the club into the 21st century (paraphrasing I admit, but all said I believe, if not I apologise and will remove), then as we sat a few points off the playoffs in our first season in the conference, you sacked him and appointed “Noddy and Big Ears” who lost most of the remaining games and seemed to take the club backwards in the latter part of that season. But then they did need to bed get to know the players etc etc so that wasn’t a problem. This season “Noddy and Big Ears” have elevated GTFC to the lofty heights of…oh 17th in that same division. You were pivotal in the appointment of Mike Parker to the board and then, for reasons which I am not fully informed, the pair of you had a falling out, resulting in Mr Parker handing his shares to GTST and you resigning as chairman. Since which, it would appear, you have decided that, aside from the ailing football club, the most productive thing for the image of GTFC plc would be to send a letter to a fans forum threatening legal action if the opinions which you don’t like are not removed. Now I understand you have every right to ask for libellous and/or offensive things written about you in the public domain to be removed I would like to pose the following questions to you
If what was said was indeed false, what are your intentions for the “benign loans?”
If you have “written them off in your head” why not write them off officially?
If as mentioned above that post was false and did show the club in a negative light, what image, in your opinion, does your letter show the club in?
The club have been operating to a deficit for the last X (I don’t know how many, but it’s a lot) number of years; on what planet does this constitute “working in the best interest of the football club?” sure nobody in their right mind would continually run a business that way and expect it to go well?
The above question is my…errr…sorry….my friends…main gripe Mr Fenty, YOU decided to run this club in a way that makes a loss, YOU increased the playing budget, sacked a manager a season and appointed Mike Newell, and then YOU paid for it (literally) and, whilst claiming the loans to be benign, left them on the clubs financial report.
I do hope nothing within this rant is incorrect, if so I will be happy to correct and/or remove the offending comments. However I do believe you are acting like a petulant child I think it would help not only your position with the fans but the image of the football club if you come out and actually defend your position, by stating what in the offending posts was incorrect, what was not and what the direction is for this once great club. If nothing happens in the near future this town will be talking about the time they used to have a football club and nobody wants that…well except the housing developers waiting to buy BP…from whichever institution calls in their loans first!
Regards
Mr ...actually if you want my name ask Rob to get my IP address
I have been asked to look at this thread by some friends who were concerned about the fact that the ex-chairman of a once great football club has once again made a complete plonker of himself (in their opinion of course) in his dealing with the media (whether this be the local newspaper, the official website or a fans forum). Firstly they mentioned the fact that, they believed, your dealings with the local radio station(s) damaged the public impression of the football club, further more your reluctance to offer a contract to Russell Slade damaged the financial impression of the football club, this is however conjecture as it is not possible to prove that with Mr Slade in charge GTFC would have remained in the football league. From here you appointed Mike Newell…need I say more? You then promoted Neil Woods, who I think it is fair to say, was seen as a fans favourite from his playing days by most supporters, to first team manager, stating that he would have the full support of the board and that you believed he had moved the club into the 21st century (paraphrasing I admit, but all said I believe, if not I apologise and will remove), then as we sat a few points off the playoffs in our first season in the conference, you sacked him and appointed “Noddy and Big Ears” who lost most of the remaining games and seemed to take the club backwards in the latter part of that season. But then they did need to bed get to know the players etc etc so that wasn’t a problem. This season “Noddy and Big Ears” have elevated GTFC to the lofty heights of…oh 17th in that same division. You were pivotal in the appointment of Mike Parker to the board and then, for reasons which I am not fully informed, the pair of you had a falling out, resulting in Mr Parker handing his shares to GTST and you resigning as chairman. Since which, it would appear, you have decided that, aside from the ailing football club, the most productive thing for the image of GTFC plc would be to send a letter to a fans forum threatening legal action if the opinions which you don’t like are not removed. Now I understand you have every right to ask for libellous and/or offensive things written about you in the public domain to be removed I would like to pose the following questions to you
If what was said was indeed false, what are your intentions for the “benign loans?”
If you have “written them off in your head” why not write them off officially?
If as mentioned above that post was false and did show the club in a negative light, what image, in your opinion, does your letter show the club in?
The club have been operating to a deficit for the last X (I don’t know how many, but it’s a lot) number of years; on what planet does this constitute “working in the best interest of the football club?” sure nobody in their right mind would continually run a business that way and expect it to go well?
The above question is my…errr…sorry….my friends…main gripe Mr Fenty, YOU decided to run this club in a way that makes a loss, YOU increased the playing budget, sacked a manager a season and appointed Mike Newell, and then YOU paid for it (literally) and, whilst claiming the loans to be benign, left them on the clubs financial report.
I do hope nothing within this rant is incorrect, if so I will be happy to correct and/or remove the offending comments. However I do believe you are acting like a petulant child I think it would help not only your position with the fans but the image of the football club if you come out and actually defend your position, by stating what in the offending posts was incorrect, what was not and what the direction is for this once great club. If nothing happens in the near future this town will be talking about the time they used to have a football club and nobody wants that…well except the housing developers waiting to buy BP…from whichever institution calls in their loans first!
Regards
Mr ...actually if you want my name ask Rob to get my IP address
Surely a more constructive approach would be to post this directly to JF at BP or better still arrange an appointment with him and discuss these points , with a witness of course.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
From here you appointed Mike Newell---need I say more?
Yes how about with the moral support of almost everyone in the Town barring a select few. just for fairness mind
Not quite true. Once appointed some of us looked at his stand-out days with Luton and thought..hmmm, impressive. He was hand picked though, when perhaps the fans would have liked to have seen a larger list of candidates to pick from? I know I did. Almost immediately the alarm bells started with negative opinions on him from fans of former clubs. Yes, we were taken in, but most of us didn't go digging into his past to find out what a nightmare the man was because we are just that, fans. That sort of research is left down to a football clubs chairman/board. It's blatantly obvious who was to blame for the APPOINTMENT of Newell, and to make the fans guilty by association due to the fact that we casually cherry picked some of his history is quite wrong imo.
Surely a more constructive approach would be to post this directly to JF at BP or better still arrange an appointment with him and discuss these points , with a witness of course.
But why use a third party if you want the answer to pertinent questions ? Is using the Fishy just a way of getting attention to your questions knowing that JF will not personally log on here to answer it. Monitoring this site is not the same thing as actively engaging in it. For what it's worth I think a lot of these key-board warriors haven't the balls to directly ask JF to his face about their gripes but like to shout " foul " when he challenges some of the hysterical drivel that is posted about his supposed financial intentions for the club .
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
But why use a third party if you want the answer to pertinent questions ? Is using the Fishy just a way of getting attention to your questions knowing that JF will not personally log on here to answer it. Monitoring this site is not the same thing as actively engaging in it. For what it's worth I think a lot of these key-board warriors haven't the balls to directly ask JF to his face about their gripes but like to shout " foul " when he challenges some of the hysterical drivel that is posted about his supposed financial intentions for the club .
perhaps the best thing would be to go on radio hull and declare his intentions regarding lots of issues,i doubt he will cos burnsy tears him apart normally
I have been asked to look at this thread by some friends who were concerned about the fact that the ex-chairman of a once great football club has once again made a complete plonker of himself (in their opinion of course) in his dealing with the media (whether this be the local newspaper, the official website or a fans forum). Firstly they mentioned the fact that, they believed, your dealings with the local radio station(s) damaged the public impression of the football club, further more your reluctance to offer a contract to Russell Slade damaged the financial impression of the football club, this is however conjecture as it is not possible to prove that with Mr Slade in charge GTFC would have remained in the football league. From here you appointed Mike Newell…need I say more? You then promoted Neil Woods, who I think it is fair to say, was seen as a fans favourite from his playing days by most supporters, to first team manager, stating that he would have the full support of the board and that you believed he had moved the club into the 21st century (paraphrasing I admit, but all said I believe, if not I apologise and will remove), then as we sat a few points off the playoffs in our first season in the conference, you sacked him and appointed “Noddy and Big Ears” who lost most of the remaining games and seemed to take the club backwards in the latter part of that season. But then they did need to bed get to know the players etc etc so that wasn’t a problem. This season “Noddy and Big Ears” have elevated GTFC to the lofty heights of…oh 17th in that same division. You were pivotal in the appointment of Mike Parker to the board and then, for reasons which I am not fully informed, the pair of you had a falling out, resulting in Mr Parker handing his shares to GTST and you resigning as chairman. Since which, it would appear, you have decided that, aside from the ailing football club, the most productive thing for the image of GTFC plc would be to send a letter to a fans forum threatening legal action if the opinions which you don’t like are not removed. Now I understand you have every right to ask for libellous and/or offensive things written about you in the public domain to be removed I would like to pose the following questions to you
If what was said was indeed false, what are your intentions for the “benign loans?”
If you have “written them off in your head” why not write them off officially?
If as mentioned above that post was false and did show the club in a negative light, what image, in your opinion, does your letter show the club in?
The club have been operating to a deficit for the last X (I don’t know how many, but it’s a lot) number of years; on what planet does this constitute “working in the best interest of the football club?” sure nobody in their right mind would continually run a business that way and expect it to go well?
The above question is my…errr…sorry….my friends…main gripe Mr Fenty, YOU decided to run this club in a way that makes a loss, YOU increased the playing budget, sacked a manager a season and appointed Mike Newell, and then YOU paid for it (literally) and, whilst claiming the loans to be benign, left them on the clubs financial report.
I do hope nothing within this rant is incorrect, if so I will be happy to correct and/or remove the offending comments. However I do believe you are acting like a petulant child I think it would help not only your position with the fans but the image of the football club if you come out and actually defend your position, by stating what in the offending posts was incorrect, what was not and what the direction is for this once great club. If nothing happens in the near future this town will be talking about the time they used to have a football club and nobody wants that…well except the housing developers waiting to buy BP…from whichever institution calls in their loans first!
Regards
Mr ...actually if you want my name ask Rob to get my IP address
Well said that man.
Ive just re-read the original "Fenty" letter and still cannot believe its genuine.
No but if the post clearly libels him as the ones in question did then we had no choice to remove them. Grow a brain.
Rob, in your opinion it might be libellous and of course you have to go with your own judgement (and any advice you get). I understand that and also understand why you have to take a more defensive interpretation of risk than the rest of us do.
That said, all CATSMan did was to point out a series of facts* and invite people to draw their own conclusions about John Fenty's motives.
* the one about the valuation of BP has been challenged admittedly and surely this is a better way for JF to defend his position.
I have been asked to look at this thread by some friends who were concerned about the fact that the ex-chairman of a once great football club has once again made a complete plonker of himself (in their opinion of course) in his dealing with the media (whether this be the local newspaper, the official website or a fans forum). Firstly they mentioned the fact that, they believed, your dealings with the local radio station(s) damaged the public impression of the football club, further more your reluctance to offer a contract to Russell Slade damaged the financial impression of the football club, this is however conjecture as it is not possible to prove that with Mr Slade in charge GTFC would have remained in the football league. From here you appointed Mike Newell…need I say more? You then promoted Neil Woods, who I think it is fair to say, was seen as a fans favourite from his playing days by most supporters, to first team manager, stating that he would have the full support of the board and that you believed he had moved the club into the 21st century (paraphrasing I admit, but all said I believe, if not I apologise and will remove), then as we sat a few points off the playoffs in our first season in the conference, you sacked him and appointed “Noddy and Big Ears” who lost most of the remaining games and seemed to take the club backwards in the latter part of that season. But then they did need to bed get to know the players etc etc so that wasn’t a problem. This season “Noddy and Big Ears” have elevated GTFC to the lofty heights of…oh 17th in that same division. You were pivotal in the appointment of Mike Parker to the board and then, for reasons which I am not fully informed, the pair of you had a falling out, resulting in Mr Parker handing his shares to GTST and you resigning as chairman. Since which, it would appear, you have decided that, aside from the ailing football club, the most productive thing for the image of GTFC plc would be to send a letter to a fans forum threatening legal action if the opinions which you don’t like are not removed. Now I understand you have every right to ask for libellous and/or offensive things written about you in the public domain to be removed I would like to pose the following questions to you
If what was said was indeed false, what are your intentions for the “benign loans?”
If you have “written them off in your head” why not write them off officially?
If as mentioned above that post was false and did show the club in a negative light, what image, in your opinion, does your letter show the club in?
The club have been operating to a deficit for the last X (I don’t know how many, but it’s a lot) number of years; on what planet does this constitute “working in the best interest of the football club?” sure nobody in their right mind would continually run a business that way and expect it to go well?
The above question is my…errr…sorry….my friends…main gripe Mr Fenty, YOU decided to run this club in a way that makes a loss, YOU increased the playing budget, sacked a manager a season and appointed Mike Newell, and then YOU paid for it (literally) and, whilst claiming the loans to be benign, left them on the clubs financial report.
I do hope nothing within this rant is incorrect, if so I will be happy to correct and/or remove the offending comments. However I do believe you are acting like a petulant child I think it would help not only your position with the fans but the image of the football club if you come out and actually defend your position, by stating what in the offending posts was incorrect, what was not and what the direction is for this once great club. If nothing happens in the near future this town will be talking about the time they used to have a football club and nobody wants that…well except the housing developers waiting to buy BP…from whichever institution calls in their loans first!
Regards
Mr ...actually if you want my name ask Rob to get my IP address
I thought that it needed to be a post that most of the board agreed on for an Icey Post of the Week - rather than just a one-off person saying they think it is a good post.
I'm clearly in the "John Fenty should not return to the club in any role" camp and I don't think the "John Fenty should return immediately as Chairman and continue his sterling work because I am totally clueless and want the club to continue down the same path" camp would agree that it was a good post.
I thought that it needed to be a post that most of the board agreed on for an Icey Post of the Week - rather than just a one-off person saying they think it is a good post.
Well I thought it was the latter, but then I am a bit clueless so dunno.
The sad thing is I have always had one if not both (most of the time) feet in the camp that Fenty is the best person for the club, if only it is because he is clearly the only person who wants the role.
The one problem though if you ignore his apparent dire (excluding Slade) record of appointing managers and balancing books, is and always has been his PR.
Exactly what did the man think he was going to achieve from this request, yes some of the things said have been appalling on this site but generally they are no different to what is said rightly or wrongly about any other person on the web ( I wonder if he will write to the owners of facebook and demand the same!!).
Any man of standing should be big enough and strong enough to ignore these comments, yes there is always a line, usually regards ones family, but as far as I know that wasn't the case here was it? I always say if they are talking about me at least they are not talking about anyone else.
Taking this one stage further I wonder if this suggests that there is no going back for Fenty as he clearly doesn't seem to care if he now offends those that he relies upon or will rely upon to keep the club afloat; agreed this won't happen without outside income at the moment - but again I wonder why this is!!
Anything which insinuates that Fenty is trying to sell the ground, or in some way get back his loans, directly contradicts anything which he has ever said which is that the loans are benign and he does not expect to get his money back. If you have an issue with the company accounts raise it at the AGM or ask John Fenty directly.
Incidentally saying things like the benign loans are stopping other "investors" coming into the club is fine as that is an opinion.
That is Bullshit!
The fact that the loans are secured against the ground make any speculation about it's future ownership valid. Not expecting to get money back is not the same as not wanting it back.
The fact that the loans are secured against the ground make any speculation about it's future ownership valid. Not expecting to get money back is not the same as not wanting it back.
It's a valid point hypothetically but there's no indication whatsoever that Fenty has any intention of selling the ground, and since he has said he does not expect to get his money back you would imagine in fact the opposite is the case.
If one of us wins the lottery then he might get his money back but it's hard to imagine any other situation where that might be the case.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
It's a valid point hypothetically but there's no indication whatsoever that Fenty has any intention of selling the ground, and since he has said he does not expect to get his money back you would imagine in fact the opposite is the case.
If one of us wins the lottery then he might get his money back but it's hard to imagine any other situation where that might be the case.
The best way to remove speculation is to remove the cause of the speculation.
It's a valid point hypothetically but there's no indication whatsoever that Fenty has any intention of selling the ground, and since he has said he does not expect to get his money back you would imagine in fact the opposite is the case.
If one of us wins the lottery then he might get his money back but it's hard to imagine any other situation where that might be the case.
If I won the lottery I'd buy Hull City and relocate it to the south bank and change it's name to Grimsby & Cleethorpes AFC.
The sad thing is I have always had one if not both (most of the time) feet in the camp that Fenty is the best person for the club, if only it is because he is clearly the only person who wants the role.
The one problem though if you ignore his apparent dire (excluding Slade) record of appointing managers and balancing books, is and always has been his PR.
Exactly what did the man think he was going to achieve from this request, yes some of the things said have been appalling on this site but generally they are no different to what is said rightly or wrongly about any other person on the web ( I wonder if he will write to the owners of facebook and demand the same!!).
Any man of standing should be big enough and strong enough to ignore these comments, yes there is always a line, usually regards ones family, but as far as I know that wasn't the case here was it? I always say if they are talking about me at least they are not talking about anyone else.
Taking this one stage further I wonder if this suggests that there is no going back for Fenty as he clearly doesn't seem to care if he now offends those that he relies upon or will rely upon to keep the club afloat; agreed this won't happen without outside income at the moment - but again I wonder why this is!!
the facebook/twitter thing is spot on ive read much worse on both about fenty and the grim outlook for that matter,and i agree with the above in my opinion hes forgot who the club really belongs to
Not been on the site for a couple of weeks, so never saw the original posts regarding Fenty. But having read his reply I am extremely concerned about the future of the club and think a minority of the fans that seem intent of driving Fenty away from the club are gonna end up effectively killing this club once and for all.
Yes, our fortunes on the field have taken a dramatic turn from the worst during his time in charge. Relegation from Championship to outside the league is a devastating run of form that has seen gates drop in 10-12 years from 8,000 a week to just over 2,000. But I feel for Fenty. Although he has to shoulder the blame for the majority of the above and in the fact that he alone appoints the managers to run the team and that sign the players that have failed to bring a turn in fortunes, he had to show some trust that others will show the same passion for this club that he and the fans do. He/we have been let down badly - an understatement indeed.
The fact remains though that John Fenty is a fan, like me and you, he's not in this for any kind of financial reward, he is single-handedly bank-rolling the club. Even Mike Parker has walked away with a there's nothing in it for me attitude, and although Fenty felt there was no other alternative but to step down as chairman, he's still here paying the bills. There has been no interest at all from anyone else in the county and if he's driven out by the mindless idiots on this board we'd almost certainly go into administration and take a further downward spiral. Massive cuts would need to be taken to staff, players etc to re-coup the £1 million a year we are losing.
Some of the stick that Fenty has been taking is shocking and uncalled for and I wouldn't blame him for questioning what he's doing here. I understand fans' frustrations and many may well be at the end of the tether with the club at the moment. But the only way we are going to pull through this is by uniting as a club instead of driving away the people that matter and could ultimately turn this once great club around.
I will always be supporting the club through thick and thin.
Not been on the site for a couple of weeks, so never saw the original posts regarding Fenty. But having read his reply I am extremely concerned about the future of the club and think a minority of the fans that seem intent of driving Fenty away from the club are gonna end up effectively killing this club once and for all.
Yes, our fortunes on the field have taken a dramatic turn from the worst during his time in charge. Relegation from Championship to outside the league is a devastating run of form that has seen gates drop in 10-12 years from 8,000 a week to just over 2,000. But I feel for Fenty. Although he has to shoulder the blame for the majority of the above and in the fact that he alone appoints the managers to run the team and that sign the players that have failed to bring a turn in fortunes, he had to show some trust that others will show the same passion for this club that he and the fans do. He/we have been let down badly - an understatement indeed.
The fact remains though that John Fenty is a fan, like me and you, he's not in this for any kind of financial reward, he is single-handedly bank-rolling the club. Even Mike Parker has walked away with a there's nothing in it for me attitude, and although Fenty felt there was no other alternative but to step down as chairman, he's still here paying the bills. There has been no interest at all from anyone else in the county and if he's driven out by the mindless idiots on this board we'd almost certainly go into administration and take a further downward spiral. Massive cuts would need to be taken to staff, players etc to re-coup the £1 million a year we are losing.
Some of the stick that Fenty has been taking is shocking and uncalled for and I wouldn't blame him for questioning what he's doing here. I understand fans' frustrations and many may well be at the end of the tether with the club at the moment. But the only way we are going to pull through this is by uniting as a club instead of driving away the people that matter and could ultimately turn this once great club around.
I will always be supporting the club through thick and thin.
Clubs have always gone up and down. Somebody has to.
Look at Swansea (twice), Barnsley, Hull, Brighton, Wolves, Oxford, Wednesday & United ....... we are no different in failing to get results on the field. If you look at other clubs doing well there is no simple standard way that they have gone down and no simple standard way to get back.
But there is no doubt in my mind that JF must shoulder most of the responsibility through some ridiculous decision making that proves the lad does not have a clue about running a football club. He is not the first football club chairman to be like that though and he won't be the last. JF does have the saving grace of admitting his mistakes but in our current situation the future matters a lot more than the past. The simple fact is that the club is falling apart and all we can talk about is libel from a letter that looks a long way from genuine to me. Even if it is real, it is meaningless and unhelpful.
The letter would be best ignored and we would do better to start thinking of some positive ways forward and some questions for the AGM and especially what part the Trust is going to play in all this. Otherwise I can see us just having the usual rants for days afterwards and being no further forward.
Lastly, I also have a lot of time for Rob & Biccys but they can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds, if you are a mod then you are a mod - full stop. This schizophrenia of trying to be mod and a normal poster doesn't work for me, sorry.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Not been on the site for a couple of weeks, so never saw the original posts regarding Fenty. But having read his reply I am extremely concerned about the future of the club and think a minority of the fans that seem intent of driving Fenty away from the club are gonna end up effectively killing this club once and for all.
Yes, our fortunes on the field have taken a dramatic turn from the worst during his time in charge. Relegation from Championship to outside the league is a devastating run of form that has seen gates drop in 10-12 years from 8,000 a week to just over 2,000. But I feel for Fenty. Although he has to shoulder the blame for the majority of the above and in the fact that he alone appoints the managers to run the team and that sign the players that have failed to bring a turn in fortunes, he had to show some trust that others will show the same passion for this club that he and the fans do. He/we have been let down badly - an understatement indeed.
The fact remains though that John Fenty is a fan, like me and you, he's not in this for any kind of financial reward, he is single-handedly bank-rolling the club. Even Mike Parker has walked away with a there's nothing in it for me attitude, and although Fenty felt there was no other alternative but to step down as chairman, he's still here paying the bills. There has been no interest at all from anyone else in the county and if he's driven out by the mindless idiots on this board we'd almost certainly go into administration and take a further downward spiral. Massive cuts would need to be taken to staff, players etc to re-coup the £1 million a year we are losing.
Some of the stick that Fenty has been taking is shocking and uncalled for and I wouldn't blame him for questioning what he's doing here. I understand fans' frustrations and many may well be at the end of the tether with the club at the moment. But the only way we are going to pull through this is by uniting as a club instead of driving away the people that matter and could ultimately turn this once great club around.
I will always be supporting the club through thick and thin.
UTM
Brilliant - it's the fans killing off the club!
No wonder Sonik thought it was a great post.
This club will not die because of 'a minority' of its fans.
Of the 3-4 thousand fans who have attended BP over the last few years, how many have actually posted aggressive and obscene messages about JF on this board?
Brilliant - it's the fans killing off the club! No wonder Sonik thought it was a great post.
This club will not die because of 'a minority' of its fans.
Of the 3-4 thousand fans who have attended BP over the last few years, how many have actually posted aggressive and obscene messages about JF on this board?
I think some perspective is needed.
I think you need to read the statement correctly . No mention was made of a " minority " of fans killing the club. What was said was that if some of the drivel posted on this site drove JF away then there is a good chance that the club could fold , which is not quite the same thing. It is a fact that at the moment their is nobody willing to take up the challenge of running/bank rolling GTFC if JF was to chuck his hand in.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
I think you need to read the statement correctly . No mention was made of a " minority " of fans killing the club. What was said was that if some of the drivel posted on this site drove JF away then there is a good chance that the club could fold , which is not quite the same thing. It is a fact that at the moment their is nobody willing to take up the challenge of running/bank rolling GTFC if JF was to chuck his hand in.
Not that I'd expect him to, but if Fenty walked away and left the club to die as a result of being called a few names (the majority well justified) on a message board, then I know who I'd be pointing the finger at, and it certainly wouldn't be anyone on here. In fact, maybe if he could've taken a bit more stick, shown a bit of spine and stuck to his guns in the past then perhaps we wouldn't have gone through managers like a baby goes through nappies and perhaps we wouldn't be in this awful mess at all.
Rancido, do you mean Fenty's statement or Stew's post? As I quoted Stew's post I thought it was obvious that that was what I was responding to - his second sentence talks about a minority of fans killing the club.
It's a valid point hypothetically but there's no indication whatsoever that Fenty has any intention of selling the ground, and since he has said he does not expect to get his money back you would imagine in fact the opposite is the case.
If one of us wins the lottery then he might get his money back but it's hard to imagine any other situation where that might be the case.
Not that I'd expect him to, but if Fenty walked away and left the club to die as a result of being called a few names (the majority well justified) on a message board, then I know who I'd be pointing the finger at, and it certainly wouldn't be anyone on here.
Exactly.
And if it's such a big deal, why even bother reading ? (if he even is right now)
It's a bit ridiculous.
It might help if those in favour of Fenty tried to build bridges or at least, didn't patronize others by denying he's to blame for anything.
All we're seeing is the proverbial split grow wider. Or is that what the pro-Fenty lobby actually want, just them and no-one else who ever objects to anything ? Makes you wonder sometimes...
But surely Fenty could see it for what is is anyway ? Passion, frustration and possibly misguided beliefs ? There are many things I could get wound up about if took them seriously, but who does ?
Fenty is very succesfull in all his buisness acheivments,five star, E factor, councilor, this aloan is the gateway to the new stadium all his time effort and energy, he has not failed at anything he has wanted to acheive in his life, it will come good soon if we are all unite and keep the faith, for all the stick he receives he should save his money buy a very big boat and enjoy the spoils of his labour or buy a season ticket at MUFC, not one of us if we are honest would invest the type of money he has and put up with the drivell that the (minority) come up with, if you dont want a football club carry on, there will only be one outcome if this continues, everyone has a limit, this football club would of died years ago if it was not for him, lets just look at previous directors they took money out of the club and run a mile when the sh t hit the fan, not fenty he has put his kids inheritance in and still beleives that fortune will come soon to our wonderfull football club. ps i am iliterate to.
Well IMHO FFS stop underlining every pro-bro post you can lay your mitts on. Your brother has managed to steer us from Championship level to four points above relegation from the 5th level of English football. That is an incontrovertible fact.
As I've said before, if your brother comes up with a PLAN to turn the ship around while the tides out, to use his metaphors then I, and many others will give it some credence. But at the moment the silence is deafening, no plan, no results, no enthusiasm. All many fans can see is GTFC going to the dogs.
Well IMHO FFS stop underlining every pro-bro post you can lay your mitts on. Your brother has managed to steer us from Championship level to four points above relegation from the 5th level of English football. That is an incontrovertible fact.
As I've said before, if your brother comes up with a PLAN to turn the ship around while the tides out, to use his metaphors then I, and many others will give it some credence. But at the moment the silence is deafening, no plan, no results, no enthusiasm. All many fans can see is GTFC going to the dogs.
You don't get it, do you? Those that 'keep the faith' are barely covering the wage bill - with food & programmes an extra 1000 bums on seats could bring in an extra £20,000 per home game, therefore £500,000 (including cup games) per season. Add 2,000 to the gate and you would bring in £1,000,000 per season. It's the people who don't go who need to be brought back - they represent the future financial health (or otherwise) of GTFC.
Well IMHO FFS stop underlining every pro-bro post you can lay your mitts on. Your brother has managed to steer us from Championship level to four points above relegation from the 5th level of English football. That is an incontrovertible fact.As I've said before, if your brother comes up with a PLAN to turn the ship around while the tides out, to use his metaphors then I, and many others will give it some credence. But at the moment the silence is deafening, no plan, no results, no enthusiasm. All many fans can see is GTFC going to the dogs.
Not true - JF ,as Chairman , has steered us to one relegation . The drop from the Championship to Div 2 was under another Chairman. I am neither pro or anti JF but I try to deal in facts and regardless of wether you think he had that much influence on the Board prior to being made Chairman the facts are as stated.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Not true - JF ,as Chairman , has steered us to one relegation . The drop from the Championship to Div 2 was under another Chairman. I am neither pro or anti JF but I try to deal in facts and regardless of wether you think he had that much influence on the Board prior to being made Chairman the facts are as stated.
I stand corrected - whilst mindful that he was the major shareholder well before he became chairman.
You don't get it, do you? Those that 'keep the faith' are barely covering the wage bill - with food & programmes an extra 1000 bums on seats could bring in an extra £20,000 per home game, therefore £500,000 (including cup games) per season. Add 2,000 to the gate and you would bring in £1,000,000 per season. It's the people who don't go who need to be brought back - they represent the future financial health (or otherwise) of GTFC.
Excellent point. Hopefully an area that the newly revitalised GTST can address from day 1 in conjunction with the club.
P.S. I'm not sure Town receive any of the money from the catering. I think it's franchised out and the franchise holder takes the profit?
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
Well IMHO FFS stop underlining every pro-bro post you can lay your mitts on. Your brother has managed to steer us from Championship level to four points above relegation from the 5th level of English football. That is an incontrovertible fact.
As I've said before, if your brother comes up with a PLAN to turn the ship around while the tides out, to use his metaphors then I, and many others will give it some credence. But at the moment the silence is deafening, no plan, no results, no enthusiasm. All many fans can see is GTFC going to the dogs.
I will continue to give credit to posts that I see fit. Would you not support your brother if you saw what time effort and wealth he puts into this football club of ours. John has plans for the future I'm sure. Quite what they are I don't know. The AGM will have a bearing on what the future holds. We all know the football club needs funding just to get us to the end of this season let alone future ones. I for one hope John will continue to support our club the way he has in the past. I feel for him the way he's been portrayed on this forum by some and can tell you he's sick to death of it. Big Easy will concur with this after his meeting. UTM!
And if it's such a big deal, why even bother reading ? (if he even is right now)
It's a bit ridiculous.
It might help if those in favour of Fenty tried to build bridges or at least, didn't patronize others by denying he's to blame for anything.
All we're seeing is the proverbial split grow wider. Or is that what the pro-Fenty lobby actually want, just them and no-one else who ever objects to anything ? Makes you wonder sometimes...
Why do you persist in this idea that somehow Town's fanbase is divided into pro-Fenty and anti-Fenty? I'd suggest to you that there are very few in the so called pro-Fenty lobby who believe that no criticism at all should be directed towards the man. The whole thing is a figment of your lurid imagination. I actually think you enjoy the conflict. Exactly who should supporters of not abusing John Fenty build bridges with? Those who hide behind their keyboards whilst typing vile personal abuse? Don't think so.
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
Why do you persist in this idea that somehow Town's fanbase is divided into pro-Fenty and anti-Fenty? I'd suggest to you that there are very few in the so called pro-Fenty lobby who believe that no criticism at all should be directed towards the man. The whole thing is a figment of your lurid imagination. I actually think you enjoy the conflict.
Oh come on, pull the other one barralad ! What do you think most of the recent arguments have been about ?
It's not that people "object" to the criticism, it's just the fact people will argue tooth and nail over any issue of whether "Fenty is to blame" for x, y and z.
For clarity, when I refer to pro/anti Fenty I don't mean if people like the man, I'm talking about whether they believe he is the right man to manage the club and makes it's decisons going forward.
If that's a figment of my imagination then maybe I'm living in the twilight zone, but the recent poll "Should John Fenty be chariman ?" seems to back it up. Obviously some will argue there's no choice, well I won't revisit that old debate.
Exactly who should supporters of not abusing John Fenty build bridges with? Those who hide behind their keyboards whilst typing vile personal abuse? Don't think so.
Really why not ? You don't want to try to persuade people to change their attitudes, feel part of the club and return to help boost the gate receipts ?
How can people complain about the dire financial situation of the club in one breath but then slag off exiles or those teetering on the brink of leaving in the other ?
If people enjoy the petty pointscoring good for them, but as a fan myself I'm concerned about the lack of unity and how fans with minority opinions that don't fit under the club umbrella are sometimes ridiculed and mostly dismissed.
As for "hiding behind keyboards" I think you're being a bit silly, it's obviously an issue of privacy everyone holds dear to some extent. Not everyone is so naive to splash their entire private life all over facebook.
Really why not ? You don't want to try to persuade people to change their attitudes, feel part of the club and return to help boost the gate receipts ?
How can people complain about the dire financial situation of the club in one breath but then slag off exiles or those teetering on the brink of leaving in the other ?
If people enjoy the petty pointscoring good for them, but as a fan myself I'm concerned about the lack of unity and how fans with minority opinions that don't fit under the club umbrella are sometimes ridiculed and mostly dismissed.
As for "hiding behind keyboards" I think you're being a bit silly, it's obviously an issue of privacy everyone holds dear to some extent. Not everyone is so naive to splash their entire private life all over facebook.
I'll ask you one question: Do you think that your pontificating on here makes a single shread of difference to people's attitudes towards John Fenty?
I think I've got better things to do with my time than try to reach out to the sort of people I have described at length. There are a lot of people out there however who have fallen out of love with the club but who do not have to resort to abuse to make their point. These are the people that I hope the Trust will target as they develop a strategy over the coming weeks. That battle will not be won on this or any other message board for the simple reason that most of these people don't bother to post on any messageboards. I try to deal in practicalities and the simple fact is that in the short term at least it would appear that the only person with any desire at all to fund the club is Mr Fenty. Nobody can deny that over the period of his control of the club mistakes have been made but that is what tends to happen when, because of circumstances a football club is dependent on effectively one man for it's survival. For me, anybody who is serious about reviving the fortunes of our club will have to recognise that and be prepared to work within those boundaries.
We will have to agree to disagree about anonymity. I have no idea where the comparison to Facebook comes from but we aren't talking about splashing entire private lives on the Fishy.
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
I'll ask you one question: Do you think that your pontificating on here makes a single shread of difference to people's attitudes towards John Fenty?
I think I've got better things to do with my time than try to reach out to the sort of people I have described at length. There are a lot of people out there however who have fallen out of love with the club but who do not have to resort to abuse to make their point. These are the people that I hope the Trust will target as they develop a strategy over the coming weeks. That battle will not be won on this or any other message board for the simple reason that most of these people don't bother to post on any messageboards. I try to deal in practicalities and the simple fact is that in the short term at least it would appear that the only person with any desire at all to fund the club is Mr Fenty. Nobody can deny that over the period of his control of the club mistakes have been made but that is what tends to happen when, because of circumstances a football club is dependent on effectively one man for it's survival. For me, anybody who is serious about reviving the fortunes of our club will have to recognise that and be prepared to work within those boundaries.
We will have to agree to disagree about anonymity. I have no idea where the comparison to Facebook comes from but we aren't talking about splashing entire private lives on the Fishy.
Whilst I agree with a lot of that, I do feel that, in order to get fans back, JF has to show that GTFC has a future. If we'd had a couple of bad years then it would be less of an issue but we're now looking at a club with almost a decade of continual decline.
What's worse, it has coincided with the worst recession in living memory, leading people to look carefully at how they spend their disposable income. JF needs people to spend that money at GTFC - and he needs a more persuasive argument to make them do so.
I'll ask you one question: Do you think that your pontificating on here makes a single shread of difference to people's attitudes towards John Fenty?
I think I've got better things to do with my time than try to reach out to the sort of people I have described at length. There are a lot of people out there however who have fallen out of love with the club but who do not have to resort to abuse to make their point. These are the people that I hope the Trust will target as they develop a strategy over the coming weeks. That battle will not be won on this or any other message board for the simple reason that most of these people don't bother to post on any messageboards. I try to deal in practicalities and the simple fact is that in the short term at least it would appear that the only person with any desire at all to fund the club is Mr Fenty. Nobody can deny that over the period of his control of the club mistakes have been made but that is what tends to happen when, because of circumstances a football club is dependent on effectively one man for it's survival. For me, anybody who is serious about reviving the fortunes of our club will have to recognise that and be prepared to work within those boundaries.
We will have to agree to disagree about anonymity. I have no idea where the comparison to Facebook comes from but we aren't talking about splashing entire private lives on the Fishy.
its a very good post but the bit what falls down is the club is dependant on one man for survival? didnt not that long ago another multi millionaire invest in the club?
I tell you what...why don't you take your "award winning" (was it the Dave Burns "I'm so clever award?), smug, oh so funny website and shove it where the sun doesn't shine?!
I tell you what...why don't you take your "award winning" (was it the Dave Burns "I'm so clever award?), smug, oh so funny website and shove it where the sun doesn't shine?!
Oh come on... Stop being so serious and take it for what it's worth.
We all know the football club needs funding just to get us to the end of this season let alone future ones.
I thought that your brother had agreed to fund the club until the end of the season anyway? I was under the impression that he and Parker had agreed to split the projected million pound deficit for the season 50/50 with Parker having invested his half million in shares thus sparking off this recent spat.
Are you saying we need additional funding this season or will John not fund his share of the previously agreed funding unless he is in a position of authority?
If your brother returns to the role of Chairman how much longer is he willing to fund the clubs losses?
Even the most ardent anti-Fentyite cannot argue that he hasn't put the time and effort in, as well as loaning the club money - my personal view is that the amount of money he has loaned the club is directly proportional to his mismanagement of a now shambolic football club - but where has that got us?
In the 9 years since he became major shareholder and thus string puller we have plummeted from the Championship to the lower reaches of non-league and become a shambles of an outfit both on and off the pitch.
I was so hopeful for a change in fortunes when Mike Parker became involved. I hoped that at last we had somebody involved who would run the club properly. Unfortunately I fear that the club will continue to be poorly run and badly financially 'managed' if your brother returns.
In his 9 years pulling the strings he has proven without a shadow of doubt that he is incapable of running a football club and I see absolutely no change in fortunes whilst he is involved in any capacity at the club.
His 'plan' appears to based on hope and luck, spending way in excess of our income on wages in the hope that the team do well which, hopefully, reduces or possibly negates entirely the predicted yearly losses. This 'plan' has been used year on year in the hope that our luck changes, or to use one of his favourite phrases, when the tide comes in it will come in quick, but this 'plan' has failed time and time again!
I personally hope that people voting at the AGM vote against him returning as a director let alone Chairman. It is my hope that the club will be run within its means and that particular emphasis and work is focused on attracting back the thousands of fans that have had enough of your brothers failure-ridden reign.
Finally, I know he doesn't like people name calling or 'being nasty' via the media, has he apologised to Serge yet re calling him a disaster of a signing in the Telegraph?
I thought that your brother had agreed to fund the club until the end of the season anyway? I was under the impression that he and Parker had agreed to split the projected million pound deficit for the season 50/50 with Parker having invested his half million in shares thus sparking off this recent spat.
Are you saying we need additional funding this season or will John not fund his share of the previously agreed funding unless he is in a position of authority?
If your brother returns to the role of Chairman how much longer is he willing to fund the clubs losses?
Even the most ardent anti-Fentyite cannot argue that he hasn't put the time and effort in, as well as loaning the club money - my personal view is that the amount of money he has loaned the club is directly proportional to his mismanagement of a now shambolic football club - but where has that got us?
In the 9 years since he became major shareholder and thus string puller we have plummeted from the Championship to the lower reaches of non-league and become a shambles of an outfit both on and off the pitch.
I was so hopeful for a change in fortunes when Mike Parker became involved. I hoped that at last we had somebody involved who would run the club properly. Unfortunately I fear that the club will continue to be poorly run and badly financially 'managed' if your brother returns.
In his 9 years pulling the strings he has proven without a shadow of doubt that he is incapable of running a football club and I see absolutely no change in fortunes whilst he is involved in any capacity at the club.
His 'plan' appears to based on hope and luck, spending way in excess of our income on wages in the hope that the team do well which, hopefully, reduces or possibly negates entirely the predicted yearly losses. This 'plan' has been used year on year in the hope that our luck changes, or to use one of his favourite phrases, when the tide comes in it will come in quick, but this 'plan' has failed time and time again!
I personally hope that people voting at the AGM vote against him returning as a director let alone Chairman. It is my hope that the club will be run within its means and that particular emphasis and work is focused on attracting back the thousands of fans that have had enough of your brothers failure-ridden reign.
Finally, I know he doesn't like people name calling or 'being nasty' via the media, has he apologised to Serge yet re calling him a disaster of a signing in the Telegraph?
as i said in another thread i await the posting of your business and financial plans with baited breath..........
My favourite part from all this is watching those that did pathetically insult him over and over again now desperately attempting to apologise in other threads and declaring their love for him. Brilliant move John, you've shut them up.
whilst the majority of you want fenty out, so do i so he can have a life, if we dont vote for him who are we voting for, because fenty isnt going to use his shares to vote, so we best get coppering up pritty quick.
whilst the majority of you want fenty out, so do i so he can have a life, if we dont vote for him who are we voting for, because fenty isnt going to use his shares to vote, so we best get coppering up pritty quick.
as i said in another thread i await the posting of your business and financial plans with baited breath..........
As simplistic as it sounds you only have a deficit and a requirement for a benefactor if you spend more money than what comes in.
To that end with over 50 full time staff and 1.8 million per year wage bill this is where I'd start. Assuming the playing budget is 900k per year as has been reported we are spending 17k per week on other salaries - at our level do we need over 50 full time employees? Could we manage with 50% of that number? I think Lincoln are looking at reducing their full time staff number which, from what I've read, is already down to just 20.
An extra £1 per game ticket increase x 2800 people x 23 games = extra 65k
Directors expenses no longer paid by the club = 50k per year savings based upon this years accounts.
Mr Fentys pension payment renegotiated to be repaid 'when the time comes in' saves 50k
Reduction in playing budget for 2012/13 - no idea here re potential savings but allowing players whose contracts expire in 2012 to leave would free up funds. Kenny Arthur @ 700 pw guesstimate = 36k saving
A full-on campaign to try and entice the stayaways back to boost revenue.
Whatever happens we have to move away from this dependency on outside investors to keep the club going.
I would like to see increased emphasis placed on the youngsters and in particular something created so that players between 18 and 21 are kept on longer and developed longer term rather than very few 'making it' with the rest jettisoned - and yes I realise this will cost the club financially.
At the end of the day wages are our biggest cost and we need to find a way to start controlling this aspect and I think a greater reliance on producing our own rather than already established pros is probably the only way forward.
I thought that your brother had agreed to fund the club until the end of the season anyway? I was under the impression that he and Parker had agreed to split the projected million pound deficit for the season 50/50 with Parker having invested his half million in shares thus sparking off this recent spat.
Are you saying we need additional funding this season or will John not fund his share of the previously agreed funding unless he is in a position of authority?
If your brother returns to the role of Chairman how much longer is he willing to fund the clubs losses?
Even the most ardent anti-Fentyite cannot argue that he hasn't put the time and effort in, as well as loaning the club money - my personal view is that the amount of money he has loaned the club is directly proportional to his mismanagement of a now shambolic football club - but where has that got us?
In the 9 years since he became major shareholder and thus string puller we have plummeted from the Championship to the lower reaches of non-league and become a shambles of an outfit both on and off the pitch.
I was so hopeful for a change in fortunes when Mike Parker became involved. I hoped that at last we had somebody involved who would run the club properly. Unfortunately I fear that the club will continue to be poorly run and badly financially 'managed' if your brother returns.
In his 9 years pulling the strings he has proven without a shadow of doubt that he is incapable of running a football club and I see absolutely no change in fortunes whilst he is involved in any capacity at the club.
His 'plan' appears to based on hope and luck, spending way in excess of our income on wages in the hope that the team do well which, hopefully, reduces or possibly negates entirely the predicted yearly losses. This 'plan' has been used year on year in the hope that our luck changes, or to use one of his favourite phrases, when the tide comes in it will come in quick, but this 'plan' has failed time and time again!
I personally hope that people voting at the AGM vote against him returning as a director let alone Chairman. It is my hope that the club will be run within its means and that particular emphasis and work is focused on attracting back the thousands of fans that have had enough of your brothers failure-ridden reign.
Finally, I know he doesn't like people name calling or 'being nasty' via the media, has he apologised to Serge yet re calling him a disaster of a signing in the Telegraph?
My favourite part from all this is watching those that did pathetically insult him over and over again now desperately attempting to apologise in other threads and declaring their love for him. Brilliant move John, you've shut them up.
Are you referring to me? If so then you're wrong miles off in fact.
Good of fenty to spend 5 hours chatting to a fan of course it is big respect to him for that its the least he can do and know I haven't got any cash to save the club but what I would like is a plan for the future what ever that may be and no not talk of moving grounds because that is impossible to achieve in this climate its another false hope that won't happen in uif next 5 years I would like fenty to come out with a plan that's achievable and clever that will get up out of this mess or at least give me some confidence in his ability to run the club, he's a clever man you don't make millions by being a imbecile the's no doubting that, the personal abuse he has received from me and others has been quite frankly disgusting I'm not proud of that and I apologise, I'm just ashamed of my club livid even although that doesn't give me the right to throw personal abuse at jf or the gtfc board I feel they deserve criticism but not the personal abuse that I and other have bashed out which was out of order and I accept that, all we want is to pulltin the right direction and abusing john was not the route to go down to achieve that. We all love this club and I feel totally hopeless at the moment while I see the club sink lower and lower all I want to see is what he has planned to get up out of this mess I suppose we will get answers at the agm sorry for spelling and that put typed on my touch screen and its a reet challenge
If you are referring to me then this is my post on the JF sorry thread created by Big easy.
I'm Not my declaring love for John at all and IMO neither is thebigeasy, after reading tbe's op, I didn't even know half of the things that were in place existed and was being naive and a bit of a cun t and I hold my hands up to that, He deservers criticism but the abuse I was giving him was out of order there is no two ways about that and this isn't an excuse but alot of things are getting on top of me atm not naming them but after seeing the accounts of the GETS sale of BP headline I saw red and started to keyboard bash which of course was totally the wrong thing to do. People can call me all they like nothing will change I STILL LOVE MY CLUB.
IMO john is the wrong man for the job going on history but again I was being naive, can I really be picky? as forza has said in his post on the other thread Can i replace john myself? no I can't I'm just a confused teenager( Insert joke at my expense) with no funds or knowhow to do so.
But what I would like to see is a plan from Mr Fenty on who to get us out of the mess we are in IF he gets voted chair at the AGM if that means having a chat with John again then so be it, I will do that.
A few people know me on here I'm town through and through and can easily get carried away with things, maybe just because I'm 'young' or 'thick' but at the end of the day I only what the best for my club, Of course I say stupid things some/most of the time mainly tongue in cheek etc.
I just hope GTFC survives for a long time yet say I can (probably the wrong word) but Groom my future children into supporting their local club and seeing it thrive like my Granddad did and Father,
As simplistic as it sounds you only have a deficit and a requirement for a benefactor if you spend more money than what comes in.
To that end with over 50 full time staff and 1.8 million per year wage bill this is where I'd start. Assuming the playing budget is 900k per year as has been reported we are spending 17k per week on other salaries - at our level do we need over 50 full time employees? Could we manage with 50% of that number? I think Lincoln are looking at reducing their full time staff number which, from what I've read, is already down to just 20.
An extra £1 per game ticket increase x 2800 people x 23 games = extra 65k
Directors expenses no longer paid by the club = 50k per year savings based upon this years accounts.
Mr Fentys pension payment renegotiated to be repaid 'when the time comes in' saves 50k
Reduction in playing budget for 2012/13 - no idea here re potential savings but allowing players whose contracts expire in 2012 to leave would free up funds. Kenny Arthur @ 700 pw guesstimate = 36k saving
A full-on campaign to try and entice the stayaways back to boost revenue.
Whatever happens we have to move away from this dependency on outside investors to keep the club going.
I would like to see increased emphasis placed on the youngsters and in particular something created so that players between 18 and 21 are kept on longer and developed longer term rather than very few 'making it' with the rest jettisoned - and yes I realise this will cost the club financially.
At the end of the day wages are our biggest cost and we need to find a way to start controlling this aspect and I think a greater reliance on producing our own rather than already established pros is probably the only way forward.
nice try but even doing all that only saves £650k pa and we're running a deficit of £900k p.a.. some of that wouldn't be savings - getting rid of arthur doesn't save £36k because you will still need to employ a back up keeper who is going to cost approx half of that. also directors still need to be paid expenses, particularly if they are not millionaires and are say trust members. people might be doing the club a favour but they still have to be compensated for their petrol, phone bills etc
What would your business and financial plan be Forza, other than blind optimism and unwavoring support of the man that has brought the club to this point?
What would your business and financial plan be Forza, other than blind optimism and unwavoring support of the man that has brought the club to this point?
You could save 50k a year by having one manager instead of two!
What would your business and financial plan be Forza, other than blind optimism and unwavoring support of the man that has brought the club to this point?
i would be somewhere between the 2 camps. my ideal solution was for parker to take over,because he has many of the attributes of fenty (local, rich and a fan!) but seemed a bit more sensible and hard business minded. from what i understand parker simply wants out, so that is not an option. the romantic in me would love to see the club run with or by the Trust, with a team packed full of youngsters, but i fear that if that were the case then i would be watching bsp north footie! therefore the head says that fenty is the only option. I don't blind, unwavouring support for him but i tend to take 'the better the devil you know' attitude. i'm hopeful that the fact that the trust are now a major player may help to mitigate his excesses and that if he has been so badly hurt by the opprobrium heaped upon him that he may start to think first before opening gob, and maybe start listening to others around him. the fact that he took 5 hours of his time to talk to bigeasy (would you or i have done the same? ) is a hopeful sign
As simplistic as it sounds you only have a deficit and a requirement for a benefactor if you spend more money than what comes in.
To that end with over 50 full time staff and 1.8 million per year wage bill this is where I'd start. Assuming the playing budget is 900k per year as has been reported we are spending 17k per week on other salaries - at our level do we need over 50 full time employees? Could we manage with 50% of that number? I think Lincoln are looking at reducing their full time staff number which, from what I've read, is already down to just 20.
An extra £1 per game ticket increase x 2800 people x 23 games = extra 65k
Directors expenses no longer paid by the club = 50k per year savings based upon this years accounts.
Mr Fentys pension payment renegotiated to be repaid 'when the time comes in' saves 50k
Reduction in playing budget for 2012/13 - no idea here re potential savings but allowing players whose contracts expire in 2012 to leave would free up funds. Kenny Arthur @ 700 pw guesstimate = 36k saving
A full-on campaign to try and entice the stayaways back to boost revenue.
Whatever happens we have to move away from this dependency on outside investors to keep the club going.
I would like to see increased emphasis placed on the youngsters and in particular something created so that players between 18 and 21 are kept on longer and developed longer term rather than very few 'making it' with the rest jettisoned - and yes I realise this will cost the club financially.
At the end of the day wages are our biggest cost and we need to find a way to start controlling this aspect and I think a greater reliance on producing our own rather than already established pros is probably the only way forward.
Some really good stuff in here Quagmire IMO. I guess the issue is that some of the loss we are making comes directly from the interest charges being levied on the money we owe our bankers, which makes the point elsewhere about Chester starting from scratch again a very relevant one.
If our goal is to eventually return to the Football League, in an era where money talks no matter which league you are in, the temptation to spend to get out must be nearly overpowering. It will take a brave chairman/board to go to the levels you are talking about when there is no clear evidence that having a robust youth policy will provide the personnel required to make the leap upwards. I never thought I'd say this but it may be best to forget about the Football League for the foreseeable future and give the youth option a try as clearly the spending hasn't worked. I strongly believe that the alleged plans to do away with the Youth system at the end of this season would be another nail in the coffin of the club-maybe even the final nail. Over the past few years even the most ardent Town fan would have to concede that we haven't set the football world alight with our signings. Yet other managers seem to have the ability to seek out decent players. Is it down solely to the manager(s) or is it a failing in the way we approach searching for these players. As I understand it we have no scouting system worthy of the name. If that IS the case how are we going to find anyone who lives outside of a radius of fifty miles?
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
i would be somewhere between the 2 camps. my ideal solution was for parker to take over,because he has many of the attributes of fenty (local, rich and a fan!) but seemed a bit more sensible and hard business minded. from what i understand parker simply wants out, so that is not an option. the romantic in me would love to see the club run with or by the Trust, with a team packed full of youngsters, but i fear that if that were the case then i would be watching bsp north footie! therefore the head says that fenty is the only option. I don't blind, unwavouring support for him but i tend to take 'the better the devil you know' attitude. i'm hopeful that the fact that the trust are now a major player may help to mitigate his excesses and that if he has been so badly hurt by the opprobrium heaped upon him that he may start to think first before opening gob, and maybe start listening to others around him. the fact that he took 5 hours of his time to talk to bigeasy (would you or i have done the same? ) is a hopeful sign
Fair play.
This isn't a dig at the Trust but I don't really see them having any real input into how the club is run. I don't think they are looking for a place on the board and I don't think they have the required resources that the current board members look for in potential board appointments.
I think, and personally fear, that Fenty will be voted back in and he, Elsom, and Chapman will continue to run the club as they have over the past few years.
Unfortunately from an outsiders point of view it appears that the 'plan' is to simply plough as much additional funds as Fenty is comfortable covering into the playing budget and then hope and pray that the manager(s) and players pull something out of the bag - which, if we're doing well, covers some of, if not all of the deficit that is projected at the beginning of each season.
What I dislike the most about the whole "Fenty has ploughed his millions in" is that to a certain extent this deficit is engineered by the man himself, it's not some out of the blue bill. It's not like the club is a car that goes in for a service and you're suddenly hit with a massive bill because the head gasket has gone, with Fenty riding in on his white horse and telling us not to worry about this unexpected bill because he will cover it!
Fenty and the board have a decent understanding of the kind of average revenue the club will bring in as well as the associated costs of non playing staff and ground upkeep etc. The major variable is what they decide to allocate for the playing budget - and for far too long we've overextended ourselves massively.
How long do we continue this policy? How long is Fenty able to fund this policy?
There are plenty of clubs at this level that have a far smaller playing budget than ourselves who continue to outperform us - how do they do this and why are we (as a club) simply not getting value for money from our players and management team?
There's only so many more years where Fenty will be able to fund this yearly gamble - the law of averages suggests it will come good at some point seeing as it's failed so badly over so many years so far - but will Fenty's pockets be empty before that day arrives?
Personally I think we need to start taking some medicine now, and start to cut our cloth accordingly, with a greater emphasis on bringing our youth players through and giving them the chance. It might not be pretty but we have to start to move away from this reliance upon someone loaning the club vast amounts in order to keep operating.
People will moan about flooding the team with youngsters and that in order to get out of this league we need x, y, z etc.
Supposedly to get out of this league we needed young and hungry players - which we've supposedly got. Supposedly to get out of this league we needed 'Conference' players - which we've got. Supposedly to get out of this league we needed 'Conference' managers - which is what we've got.
Yet we're 4 points above the relegation spots!
So nobody truly knows what kind of team we need to put out in order to be successful at this level.
You've only got to look at the Football League to see how many smaller clubs than us are in there - what is it that they are doing / have done that we are not?
This isn't a dig at the Trust but I don't really see them having any real input into how the club is run. I don't think they are looking for a place on the board and I don't think they have the required resources that the current board members look for in potential board appointments.
I think, and personally fear, that Fenty will be voted back in and he, Elsom, and Chapman will continue to run the club as they have over the past few years.
Unfortunately from an outsiders point of view it appears that the 'plan' is to simply plough as much additional funds as Fenty is comfortable covering into the playing budget and then hope and pray that the manager(s) and players pull something out of the bag - which, if we're doing well, covers some of, if not all of the deficit that is projected at the beginning of each season.
What I dislike the most about the whole "Fenty has ploughed his millions in" is that to a certain extent this deficit is engineered by the man himself, it's not some out of the blue bill. It's not like the club is a car that goes in for a service and you're suddenly hit with a massive bill because the head gasket has gone, with Fenty riding in on his white horse and telling us not to worry about this unexpected bill because he will cover it!
Fenty and the board have a decent understanding of the kind of average revenue the club will bring in as well as the associated costs of non playing staff and ground upkeep etc. The major variable is what they decide to allocate for the playing budget - and for far too long we've overextended ourselves massively.
How long do we continue this policy? How long is Fenty able to fund this policy?
There are plenty of clubs at this level that have a far smaller playing budget than ourselves who continue to outperform us - how do they do this and why are we (as a club) simply not getting value for money from our players and management team?
There's only so many more years where Fenty will be able to fund this yearly gamble - the law of averages suggests it will come good at some point seeing as it's failed so badly over so many years so far - but will Fenty's pockets be empty before that day arrives?
Personally I think we need to start taking some medicine now, and start to cut our cloth accordingly, with a greater emphasis on bringing our youth players through and giving them the chance. It might not be pretty but we have to start to move away from this reliance upon someone loaning the club vast amounts in order to keep operating.
People will moan about flooding the team with youngsters and that in order to get out of this league we need x, y, z etc.
Supposedly to get out of this league we needed young and hungry players - which we've supposedly got. Supposedly to get out of this league we needed 'Conference' players - which we've got. Supposedly to get out of this league we needed 'Conference' managers - which is what we've got.
Yet we're 4 points above the relegation spots!
So nobody truly knows what kind of team we need to put out in order to be successful at this level.
You've only got to look at the Football League to see how many smaller clubs than us are in there - what is it that they are doing / have done that we are not?
Agree with absolutely every word of that. Best post I've read on here in ages.
Perhaps if 5 years or so ago we had started to 'cut our cloth accordingly' we wouldn't have the deficit we have now. How much could have been saved from a drastically reduced wage bill and money saved from paying off managers and players due to repeated sackings and subsequent squad overhauls?
It could have been done, it could have significantly reduced the deficit and we might not even have found ourselves in the position we're in now.
if it was up to me, i would say have a playing budget, that would mean we break even next season.
if fenty and parker want to continue putting money in, they should concentrate on the youth development side, which will no longer get funding next year (i think)
Agree with absolutely every word of that. Best post I've read on here in ages.
Perhaps if 5 years or so ago we had started to 'cut our cloth accordingly' we wouldn't have the deficit we have now. How much could have been saved from a drastically reduced wage bill and money saved from paying off managers and players due to repeated sackings and subsequent squad overhauls?
It could have been done, it could have significantly reduced the deficit and we might not even have found ourselves in the position we're in now.
You're right, but how many people would have been on here bleating "get your wallet out Fenty & buy some decent players..." Loads i suspect. I seem to recall that happening anyway in the dark times of Newells tenure here.... Fenty's between a rock and a hard place. Spend cash, end up here, don't spend cash, get vilified for not splashing the cash and probably end up here! He couldn't win either way! We're long overdue a successful season so let's keep everything crossed for a strong end to this one and press on next with a largely similar squad and managers.
If you're confident in what you're doing, you shouldn't even be listening to the fans IMO.
Same goes for the managers too.
There's a time to spend and "go for it" and a time to cut your cloth and rebuild. A same-same "competitive budget" policy doesn't work IMO - you either really go for it or cut your cloth and live within your means.
As a strategy I guess we'll be doing the latter and I commend it, but ironically, I suspect it's only because we've no other choice.
We already know Fenty is a successful businessman, but if business knoweldge was all that was needed, it would have already worked. I believe what you need is some footballing knowledge to get the right staff, to know when to buy and sell, when to take risks etc. That's what worries me going forward. I could drag up the past and say what I believe to be past mistakes but I'll just cross my fingers instead.
If we're ever gonna appoint a Chief Exec to run the club(as barralad touched upon happened at Lincoln), then for god sake please make sure he knows his football. As daft as it sounds I would consider looking to the messageboards and appointing someone like Tommy who IMO knows his onions.
If you're confident in what you're doing, you shouldn't even be listening to the fans IMO.
Same goes for the managers too.
There's a time to spend and "go for it" and a time to cut your cloth and rebuild. A same-same "competitive budget" policy doesn't work IMO - you either really go for it or cut your cloth and live within your means.
As a strategy I guess we'll be doing the latter and I commend it, but ironically, I suspect it's only because we've no other choice.
We already know Fenty is a successful businessman, but if business knoweldge was all that was needed, it would have already worked. I believe what you need is some footballing knowledge to get the right staff, to know when to buy and sell, when to take risks etc. That's what worries me going forward. I could drag up the past and say what I believe to be past mistakes but I'll just cross my fingers instead.
If we're ever gonna appoint a Chief Exec to run the club(as barralad touched upon happened at Lincoln), then for god sake please make sure he knows his football. As daft as it sounds I would consider looking to the messageboards and appointing someone like Tommy who IMO knows his onions.
Rob, that's not a very kind comparison to make is it now?!
"The case is being brought by Chris McGrath, an online entrepreneur from Milton Keynes who wrote and self-published a little known book entitled “The Attempted Murder of God: Hidden Science You Really Need to Know”. " Hmmmm. A creationist. Self-published. Your witness.
Oh and there's crucial little bit "He is acting as a litigant in person in a two day hearing which will decide whether there is a case to answer"
If you're confident in what you're doing, you shouldn't even be listening to the fans IMO.
Same goes for the managers too.
There's a time to spend and "go for it" and a time to cut your cloth and rebuild. A same-same "competitive budget" policy doesn't work IMO - you either really go for it or cut your cloth and live within your means.
As a strategy I guess we'll be doing the latter and I commend it, but ironically, I suspect it's only because we've no other choice.
We already know Fenty is a successful businessman, but if business knoweldge was all that was needed, it would have already worked. I believe what you need is some footballing knowledge to get the right staff, to know when to buy and sell, when to take risks etc. That's what worries me going forward. I could drag up the past and say what I believe to be past mistakes but I'll just cross my fingers instead.
If we're ever gonna appoint a Chief Exec to run the club(as barralad touched upon happened at Lincoln), then for god sake please make sure he knows his football. As daft as it sounds I would consider looking to the messageboards and appointing someone like Tommy who IMO knows his onions.
As I recall Lincoln's C.E. had only the remit to sort out their day to day running, maximising income streams and organising effective campaigns in the media etc. He did say that they were helped greatly in this by having the charismatic Keith Alexander in the football environment. My own view is that football and business rarely mix.
I'm afraid the idea of appointing someone who voices their opinion on a messageboard (regardless of how much empathy we might have with that opinion) isn't just daft it's suicidal
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
As I recall Lincoln's C.E. had only the remit to sort out their day to day running, maximising income streams and organising effective campaigns in the media etc. He did say that they were helped greatly in this by having the charismatic Keith Alexander in the football environment. My own view is that football and business rarely mix.
I'm afraid the idea of appointing someone who voices their opinion on a messageboard (regardless of how much empathy we might have with that opinion) isn't just daft it's suicidal
No worries, we've all got our own opinions.
Only trying to help because I want the club to be successful as we all do.
I'm gonna simpify things by supporting the team through the turntiles and on the pitch from now on - debating the football can be frustrating enough alone, and I'm trying to take that with a larger pinch of salt too.
In the cold light of day, football was meant to be enjoyable, and it's really not worth getting wound up about any of it. Of course we do because we all love the club but it's not always the best thing.
Expect nothing and anything on top is a bonus is my new motto.
Fenty would be happy with that, he will only have to put in £250,000 pa,
Thats a good saving from his point of view.
have i missed something pete? i was under the impression that nobody had any idea what fenty's financial plans were beyond the end of the season
incidentally, some interesting points on budget cutting - 3 things 1) the new2 were brought in with the proviso that they were going to have to deal with a reduced budget - wasn't it £250k pa less? 2) if fenty is happy to keep funding things then surely a) that is up to him and b) there's nowt we could do about it anyway 3) the trust, whether or not they want a place on the Board, are now a big player and will have to be consulted an any major developments.that in itself is an improvement on the 1 party state that existed previously
This isn't a dig at the Trust but I don't really see them having any real input into how the club is run. I don't think they are looking for a place on the board and I don't think they have the required resources that the current board members look for in potential board appointments.
I think, and personally fear, that Fenty will be voted back in and he, Elsom, and Chapman will continue to run the club as they have over the past few years. Unfortunately from an outsiders point of view it appears that the 'plan' is to simply plough as much additional funds as Fenty is comfortable covering into the playing budget and then hope and pray that the manager(s) and players pull something out of the bag - which, if we're doing well, covers some of, if not all of the deficit that is projected at the beginning of each season. What I dislike the most about the whole "Fenty has ploughed his millions in" is that to a certain extent this deficit is engineered by the man himself, it's not some out of the blue bill. It's not like the club is a car that goes in for a service and you're suddenly hit with a massive bill because the head gasket has gone, with Fenty riding in on his white horse and telling us not to worry about this unexpected bill because he will cover it!
Fenty and the board have a decent understanding of the kind of average revenue the club will bring in as well as the associated costs of non playing staff and ground upkeep etc. The major variable is what they decide to allocate for the playing budget - and for far too long we've overextended ourselves massively.
How long do we continue this policy? How long is Fenty able to fund this policy?
There are plenty of clubs at this level that have a far smaller playing budget than ourselves who continue to outperform us - how do they do this and why are we (as a club) simply not getting value for money from our players and management team?
There's only so many more years where Fenty will be able to fund this yearly gamble - the law of averages suggests it will come good at some point seeing as it's failed so badly over so many years so far - but will Fenty's pockets be empty before that day arrives?
Personally I think we need to start taking some medicine now, and start to cut our cloth accordingly, with a greater emphasis on bringing our youth players through and giving them the chance. It might not be pretty but we have to start to move away from this reliance upon someone loaning the club vast amounts in order to keep operating.
People will moan about flooding the team with youngsters and that in order to get out of this league we need x, y, z etc.
Supposedly to get out of this league we needed young and hungry players - which we've supposedly got. Supposedly to get out of this league we needed 'Conference' players - which we've got. Supposedly to get out of this league we needed 'Conference' managers - which is what we've got.
Yet we're 4 points above the relegation spots!
So nobody truly knows what kind of team we need to put out in order to be successful at this level.
You've only got to look at the Football League to see how many smaller clubs than us are in there - what is it that they are doing / have done that we are not?
Belting post - absolutely spot on and the paragraph I have highlighted gets right to the heart of the problem - there is no plan if success is not forthcoming on the pitch
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
I'd rather have that plan than trying to live within our means, and have a vastly inferior side on paper. We haven't had much success with it, but it's still far more likely than getting lucky with a bargain basement side. If Fenty (or anyone else) chooses to plough money into the club which is spent on having a competitive side and is not causing long term financial problems because all the funding is in the form of benign loans then I don't see a problem.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
I'd rather have that plan than trying to live within our means, and have a vastly inferior side on paper. We haven't had much success with it, but it's still far more likely than getting lucky with a bargain basement side. If Fenty (or anyone else) chooses to plough money into the club which is spent on having a competitive side and is not causing long term financial problems because all the funding is in the form of benign loans then I don't see a problem.
I would agree with you if I had any faith at all in ENOUGH money being spent on obviously decent players.
I say decent because over the last few years this board has been awash with the names of exceptional players at this level who have moved to smaller clubs than us,for very reasonable fees.
True to form though,Mr Fenty has authorised spending on players that werent in that bracket and surprise surprise we get worse year on year.
Its not like a fish business - lowest cost per unit just wont work.
So either,he has a final hurrah and allows a side of sufficient quality to be signed,or we work without him and get together a young side that might grow into it.
I would agree with you if I had any faith at all in ENOUGH money being spent on obviously decent players.
I say decent because over the last few years this board has been awash with the names of exceptional players at this level who have moved to smaller clubs than us,for very reasonable fees. True to form though,Mr Fenty has authorised spending on players that werent in that bracket and surprise surprise we get worse year on year.
Its not like a fish business - lowest cost per unit just wont work.
So either,he has a final hurrah and allows a side of sufficient quality to be signed,or we work without him and get together a young side that might grow into it.
Surely you are not saying Fenty is to blame for a succession of managers choosing to buy crap players?!
I'd rather have that plan than trying to live within our means, and have a vastly inferior side on paper. We haven't had much success with it, but it's still far more likely than getting lucky with a bargain basement side. If Fenty (or anyone else) chooses to plough money into the club which is spent on having a competitive side and is not causing long term financial problems because all the funding is in the form of benign loans then I don't see a problem.
You don't see the problem? F*cking hell Rob it's glaringly obvious, it means that we are stuck with planless (clueless?) Fenty and his charity and benign loans forever FFS plus there is absolutely no guarantee we won't sink without trace league position-wise anyway even with him shoring us up financially - the last few years are evidence of that GTFC has sunk quicker than the Titanic.. We are a basement team like it or not, be willing to admit it. My concern is not a vastly inferior side 'on paper' its the vastly inferior side we seem to put on the pitch season in season out despite Fenty's financial input. He might have kept the patient alive (just) but the operation was not and shows no sign of being a success Also it strikes me that 'getting lucky' is the only way out anyway
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
well ipswin if your plan relies on getting lucky and quagmire believes that 'getting lucky' is the basis of Fenty's plan, then i know which 1 i'd prefer - the option with abit of cash behind it, which will mean it's got more chance
He did but he did so with the agreement of the Board.
Also as others have mentioned at the time most people were happy with his appointments (except Woods who even I could tell would be a disaster).
We have had a decent budget almost every season under Fenty.
whs. poor old fenty - he's chosen in house managers, he's chosen outsiders, he's chosen old timers with good records, he's chosen newcomers with no records, he's chosen up and coming non leaguers, he's chosen youngsters, he's chosen old un's - and none of them (bar slade) have worked! this club is cursed I tell you, cursed!! we need an old gypsy and we need one fast !!
whs. poor old fenty - he's chosen in house managers, he's chosen outsiders, he's chosen old timers with good records, he's chosen newcomers with no records, he's chosen up and coming non leaguers, he's chosen youngsters, he's chosen old un's - and none of them (bar slade) have worked! this club is cursed I tell you, cursed!! we need an old gypsy and we need one fast !!
Surely you are not saying Fenty is to blame for a succession of managers choosing to buy crap players?!
Well yes I am in the sense that the budget clearly wasnt enough to attract decent players who would have kept us in the league,or give us a shot at promotion from this division.
The "competitive" budget clearly wasnt competitive enough to attract the sort of players that make a difference.The succession of managers clearly didnt have the budget smaller clubs had and therefore "had" to buy crap players.
I have said this many times before - but what the heck was the point in having a multi millionaire chairman in charge all those years to get us to this point?A poorly run club with a half hearted attitude to changing anything for the better.
Well yes I am in the sense that the budget clearly wasnt enough to attract decent players who would have kept us in the league,or give us a shot at promotion from this division.
The "competitive" budget clearly wasnt competitive enough to attract the sort of players that make a difference.The succession of managers clearly didnt have the budget smaller clubs had and therefore "had" to buy crap players.
I have said this many times before - but what the heck was the point in having a multi millionaire chairman in charge all those years to get us to this point?A poorly run club with a half hearted attitude to changing anything for the better.
Won't argue with the fact we have been poorly run but to say it's Fenty's fault that Woods wasted so much money on the likes of Tommy Wright, Lee Peacock and God knows who else is just wrong. We paid big bucks (Fenty's money) and the manager picked duds. Not just Woods I hasten to add. The current two have had a decent budget and I am sure it wasn't Fenty's idea to pay a fee for Anthony Elding....
You can blame Fenty for a lot of things, but not managers signing bad players.
Won't argue with the fact we have been poorly run but to say it's Fenty's fault that Woods wasted so much money on the likes of Tommy Wright, Lee Peacock and God knows who else is just wrong. We paid big bucks (Fenty's money) and the manager picked duds. Not just Woods I hasten to add. The current two have had a decent budget and I am sure it wasn't Fenty's idea to pay a fee for Anthony Elding....
You can blame Fenty for a lot of things, but not managers signing bad players.
Not sure if you get my point.
The managers are responsible for the players they get,but remember we went years without paying a fee for anyone - Martin Gritton cost £5k if I remember when we were in the league.
Football is an expensive business and Fentys "big bucks" wasnt nearly big enough on the most important thing of all - quality players that would have made a difference.
Weve had to shop in the bargain basement section because so much money has been wasted;had the money been invested earlier on quality players we would never have been this low.
well ipswin if your plan relies on getting lucky and quagmire believes that 'getting lucky' is the basis of Fenty's plan, then i know which 1 i'd prefer - the option with abit of cash behind it, which will mean it's got more chance
Sorry I thought I'd written in English - perhaps the words were a bit big for you.
Fenty's whole outlook appears to rely on 'getting lucky' (according to Rob) before the money runs out
I do not suscribe to waiting for luck at all, in fact its a total typical Fenty 'non-plan' in my opinion.
Unless Fenty or anyone else can put in REAL money (and I mean far in excess of the relatively small sums that Fenty has already chipped in) in order to buy our way out of this situation with good players and a good manager as opposed to journeymen and a pair of 'might bes' then we might as well cut our cloth, play the kids, run BP with 10 staff instead of 50 and quite simply save Fenty wasting more money
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
He did but he did so with the agreement of the Board.
We have had a decent budget almost every season under Fenty.
FFS he WAS the board, if he said jump they said 'how high'
Yes we've had a 'decent' budget and look where it (hasn't) taken us thanks to the awful managerial appointments - perhaps he should have a plan to cut our cloth (and budget) drastically and save himself more wasted cash
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
FFS he WAS the board, if he said jump they said 'how high'
Yes we've had a 'decent' budget and look where it (hasn't) taken us thanks to the awful managerial appointments - perhaps he should have a plan to cut our cloth (and budget) drastically and save himself more wasted cash
no wonder the bankrupt sparky nodded to everything then if he was asked to jump
Sorry I thought I'd written in English - perhaps the words were a bit big for you.
Fenty's whole outlook appears to rely on 'getting lucky' (according to Rob) before the money runs out
I do not suscribe to waiting for luck at all, in fact its a total typical Fenty 'non-plan' in my opinion.
Unless Fenty or anyone else can put in REAL money (and I mean far in excess of the relatively small sums that Fenty has already chipped in) in order to buy our way out of this situation with good players and a good manager as opposed to journeymen and a pair of 'might bes' then we might as well cut our cloth, play the kids, run BP with 10 staff instead of 50 and quite simply save Fenty wasting more money
Its a great plan until you actually try it and people realise that they dont want to pay the current ticket prices to watch a bunch of kids with no hope of getting out of the league. This then has further implications as the budget will reduce further, meaning that we have even less chance of success.
This isn't to say the current situation is the most healthy, but it is very easy to say cut everything and play with a reduced budget until you actually have to pay to watch it.
Sorry I thought I'd written in English - perhaps the words were a bit big for you.
Fenty's whole outlook appears to rely on 'getting lucky' (according to Rob) before the money runs out
I do not suscribe to waiting for luck at all, in fact its a total typical Fenty 'non-plan' in my opinion.
Unless Fenty or anyone else can put in REAL money (and I mean far in excess of the relatively small sums that Fenty has already chipped in) in order to buy our way out of this situation with good players and a good manager as opposed to journeymen and a pair of 'might bes' then we might as well cut our cloth, play the kids, run BP with 10 staff instead of 50 and quite simply save Fenty wasting more money
sorry for being so thick. i bow and then prostrate myself in the presence of such a higher intellect.
'Also it strikes me that 'getting lucky' is the only way out anyway'
obviously i completely misread this quote of yours............
I never cease to be amazed by how some on here think that cash cash cash is the answer and that we should all be so grateful to JF for providing the club with the cash necessary to succeed!
It is the management of cash that matters and not the amount.
Over the last few years Fenty has made sure that GTFC is now wholly reliant on him and his benign loans. If you believe what has been put forward in the media recently the club cannot survive without him and his cash. How is this good for GTFC? How has GTFC been allowed to arrive at a position of such dependancy?
It is a situation created by JF and the way he has chosen to run the club, which involved him ploughing his money in rather than working to create a club that was better able to to sustain itself.
We are now where we are and whatever you may say about his motives, generosity or intent to do good, he has left GTFC in an incredibly perilous position with both hands tied behind its back and held firmly by JF.
He has gambled with the future of the club and he has lost. We're a conference side which he, in public, and his brother, on here, have suggested may not survive without his cash after Christmas. Brilliant. Well done.
I am not having a go at John Fenty or the Board, but they decide on what budget the club will run to each year, they also own/run the club day in day out. Now excuse my ingnorance but do they not get paid by the club/themselves for working for the club either as in a salary or dividend and if so, if you are going knowingly over budget above the profit margin why should this become a loan. John Fenty has put money in where no one else would, but this loan thing troubles me. They over budgeted knowing full well they wouldn't get a return if the droppings hit the fan, they took a gamble and lost. If i over budget my bills i don't loan myself some of my savings to cover a short fall, i think hey hoe i knowingly made a mistake. I willingly put more money in to cover my adult film collection and came up short(if you'll pardon the pun). If John has covered debts and put money to keep the club going, then i understand that as a lone, but puttuing money in over the budget in the hope of good time's, well * I am not a businessman and therefore have no business acumen, i would also be the first one fired on "The Apprentice" for these reasons. I am looking at this in a way i can relate to and these are my views alone*
all of them john fenty is excrement for this club his record speaks for itself and id rather he didnt put his cash in if it means more of the same for towns fortunes
I never cease to be amazed by how some on here think that cash cash cash is the answer and that we should all be so grateful to JF for providing the club with the cash necessary to succeed!
It is the management of cash that matters and not the amount.
Over the last few years Fenty has made sure that GTFC is now wholly reliant on him and his benign loans. If you believe what has been put forward in the media recently the club cannot survive without him and his cash. How is this good for GTFC? How has GTFC been allowed to arrive at a position of such dependancy?
It is a situation created by JF and the way he has chosen to run the club, which involved him ploughing his money in rather than working to create a club that was better able to to sustain itself.
We are now where we are and whatever you may say about his motives, generosity or intent to do good, he has left GTFC in an incredibly perilous position with both hands tied behind its back and held firmly by JF.
He has gambled with the future of the club and he has lost. We're a conference side which he, in public, and his brother, on here, have suggested may not survive without his cash after Christmas. Brilliant. Well done.
Unfortunately you are absolutely spot on
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
This is a straight question with no hidden agenda.
IF John Fenty isnt re-elected at the AGM and therefore doesn't cover the reported shortfall (£400K?) nor put a budget for next season in place, what do we (the club) do? How do we pay the wages for this season and have a budget for next season?
Do we just become anothr Darlo and go to the wall and start again?
This is a straight question with no hidden agenda.
IF John Fenty isnt re-elected at the AGM and therefore doesn't cover the reported shortfall (£400K?) nor put a budget for next season in place, what do we (the club) do? How do we pay the wages for this season and have a budget for next season?
Do we just become anothr Darlo and go to the wall and start again?
wouldnt you rather do that then put up with the same thing again and again during johns stewdship
Hypothetically, if there were an interested party who wanted to take over, surely they'd wait until we were forced into admin and thereby not be lumbered with all the potential costs in paying off whatever??
Although no one knows, or there may well not be, anyone interested in joining the sinking ship.
I'd say the AGM will be a straightforward matter of re-electing Fenty, and we carry on as we are. Until we go pop...which as an outsider looking in is surely our destiny at some point unless a miracle occurs.
Hypothetically, if there were an interested party who wanted to take over, surely they'd wait until we were forced into admin and thereby not be lumbered with all the potential costs in paying off whatever??
My understanding is the major creditor is John Fenty who has repeatedly said his loans are 'benign' and he doesn't expect to get his money back so as it stands, administration would be self defeating.
IMO, John should state his terms if the club really is 'up for sale' (again I quote JF). I like JF, having met him several times but the ground is in a shocking state, the finances are an utter shambles, the team is at it's lowest ebb in 133 years and it has to be said it's all been on John's watch.
I have lost faith in John Fenty - I wanted it to work out for him (and for us) but at what point does his 'reign' become narcissistic?
Won't argue with the fact we have been poorly run but to say it's Fenty's fault that Woods wasted so much money on the likes of Tommy Wright, Lee Peacock and God knows who else is just wrong. We paid big bucks (Fenty's money) and the manager picked duds. Not just Woods I hasten to add. The current two have had a decent budget and I am sure it wasn't Fenty's idea to pay a fee for Anthony Elding....
You can blame Fenty for a lot of things, but not managers signing bad players.
Nice bit of realism...Is John Fenty's biggest problem that he has put too much faith in the managers he and the board appointed? Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm not sure I can remember many complaints when we gave the job to Mike Newell
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
I'm not sure I can remember many complaints when we gave the job to Mike Newell
Yes, but the man on the street didn't have the opportunity to talk to people in the game or his ex chairman about why he'd been out of work for two years.
Yes, but the man on the street didn't have the opportunity to talk to people in the game or his ex chairman about why he'd been out of work for two years.
You're right but when has that ever stopped the Fishy from having it's say. Virtually no criticism on here for months after his appointment
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
I'd rather have that plan than trying to live within our means, and have a vastly inferior side on paper. We haven't had much success with it, but it's still far more likely than getting lucky with a bargain basement side. If Fenty (or anyone else) chooses to plough money into the club which is spent on having a competitive side and is not causing long term financial problems because all the funding is in the form of benign loans then I don't see a problem.
Rob. Shall we call you Greece? Quite happy to waste someone else's money. Unfortunately John Fenty is not Germany in this scenario. More like Ireland.
Sooner or later the money runs out and the benefactor gets bored.
But it's much worse than that in our situation. Fenty's loans have created a false situation. It's led, with bad management, to wasted money, and disillusion. He's not given one manager the time. He's gone back on his promise to back Woodsy inside of a few days. It's led to clear out after clear out and pay off after pay off.
His money has been a curse not an aid. It's been wasted. We're now in the riduclous situation of having one of the bigger gates of the Conference plus a £1m subsidy yet we're not competitive.
He seems to think that if he just perseveres longer something will come good.
Hell! Every season we have a budget that is high yet is dropped the following year because we're leaking money, but always the decision is too late. So we're on a constant spiral of getting worse, lowering our budget yet doing so too late to keep up with reality, so we bring in more players who are not up to it ad infinitum. How can we have 50+ non-playing employees at our level!
You cannot go through so many managers and still be unsuccessful without questioning the regime at the top. NOBODY is that unlucky.
I'd rather we faced the dreaded day when the money runs out sooner than later.
This is a straight question with no hidden agenda.
IF John Fenty isnt re-elected at the AGM and therefore doesn't cover the reported shortfall (£400K?) nor put a budget for next season in place, what do we (the club) do? How do we pay the wages for this season and have a budget for next season?
Do we just become anothr Darlo and go to the wall and start again?
And the happy alternative is what? More of the same?
I never cease to be amazed by how some on here think that cash cash cash is the answer and that we should all be so grateful to JF for providing the club with the cash necessary to succeed!
It is the management of cash that matters and not the amount.
Over the last few years Fenty has made sure that GTFC is now wholly reliant on him and his benign loans. If you believe what has been put forward in the media recently the club cannot survive without him and his cash. How is this good for GTFC? How has GTFC been allowed to arrive at a position of such dependancy?
It is a situation created by JF and the way he has chosen to run the club, which involved him ploughing his money in rather than working to create a club that was better able to to sustain itself.
We are now where we are and whatever you may say about his motives, generosity or intent to do good, he has left GTFC in an incredibly perilous position with both hands tied behind its back and held firmly by JF.
He has gambled with the future of the club and he has lost. We're a conference side which he, in public, and his brother, on here, have suggested may not survive without his cash after Christmas. Brilliant. Well done.
rather than working to create a club that was better able to to sustain itself.
Funny, I seem to remember him working his ar$e off to get a new stadium because his main ambition was to make us sustainable. He received f**k all support from the council and received accusations from the fans of wanting a pointless Fenty Dome.
Funny, I seem to remember him working his ar$e off to get a new stadium because his main ambition was to make us sustainable. He received f**k all support from the council and received accusations from the fans of wanting a pointless Fenty Dome.
And what's the point of a 5 Star Stadium when you've got a derelict team to put in it. Cardiff Mariner has hit the nail on the head - JF has gambled (albeit with his own money) on throwing cash around to solve the problem.
No amount of cash can eliminate the malaise that has been created over the last 8 years. What's been needed before - and even more so now - is a sustainable business plan that the club can afford to follow. Sooner or later the cash will dry up - whether it be Fenty's, Parker's or the Fairy Godmothers and GTFC will have to find its' business feet.
Funny, I seem to remember him working his ar$e off to get a new stadium because his main ambition was to make us sustainable. He received f**k all support from the council and received accusations from the fans of wanting a pointless Fenty Dome.
Went well for him, a misguided and fruitless waste of money. Maybe if the club had concentrated the money spent on Great Coates on footballing matters we would still be a league club, instead of making restrictive and drastic cost cutting decisions that saved thousands and cost the club millions.
I never cease to be amazed by how some on here think that cash cash cash is the answer and that we should all be so grateful to JF for providing the club with the cash necessary to succeed!
It is the management of cash that matters and not the amount.
Over the last few years Fenty has made sure that GTFC is now wholly reliant on him and his benign loans. If you believe what has been put forward in the media recently the club cannot survive without him and his cash. How is this good for GTFC? How has GTFC been allowed to arrive at a position of such dependancy?
It is a situation created by JF and the way he has chosen to run the club, which involved him ploughing his money in rather than working to create a club that was better able to to sustain itself.
We are now where we are and whatever you may say about his motives, generosity or intent to do good, he has left GTFC in an incredibly perilous position with both hands tied behind its back and held firmly by JF.
He has gambled with the future of the club and he has lost. We're a conference side which he, in public, and his brother, on here, have suggested may not survive without his cash after Christmas. Brilliant. Well done.
Went well for him, a misguided and fruitless waste of money. Maybe if the club had concentrated the money spent on Great Coates on footballing matters we would still be a league club, instead of making restrictive and drastic cost cutting decisions that saved thousands and cost the club millions.
Went well for him, a misguided and fruitless waste of money. Maybe if the club had concentrated the money spent on Great Coates on footballing matters we would still be a league club, instead of making restrictive and drastic cost cutting decisions that saved thousands and cost the club millions.
The prospect of a new ground was a realistic approach to the financial problems that we faced ie a non dependancy on purely football based income. Don't forget this idea had been mentioned for a while before JF got involved. The Council wanted it but as per normal there was no concrete financial support.Unfortunately the eventual timing was wrong.This was coupled with the objections from the Great Coates residents who wanted to preserve their pristine picturesque village from masses of rampaging football hooligans and English Nature ? who were concerned that birds that had flown 2,000 miles to winter here were not capable of flying a further mile to another open field.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
The prospect of a new ground was a realistic approach to the financial problems that we faced ie a non dependancy on purely football based income. Don't forget this idea had been mentioned for a while before JF got involved. The Council wanted it but as per normal there was no concrete financial support.Unfortunately the eventual timing was wrong.This was coupled with the objections from the Great Coates residents who wanted to preserve their pristine picturesque village from masses of rampaging football hooligans and English Nature ? who were concerned that birds that had flown 2,000 miles to winter here were not capable of flying a further mile to another open field.
Not to mention they would've lost that wonderful view of the factories and that nice big chimney.
I've never loved fenty nor hated him, never have i slagged him off but what i've just read is sad. I do think he tried his utmost best with the 'new stadium' and always had the clubs intentions at heart etc.. But this 'rant' from him isn't good.
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