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 MuddyWaters |
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Barley Wine Drinker  Posts: 14,113
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Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +32,257
Gold Stars: 236
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‘Take our country back’ he said, ‘to the Middle Ages’ he forgot to add.
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| Humbercod |
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Cocktail Drinker  Posts: 1,549
Posts Per Day: 1.17
Reputation: 60.08%
Rep Score: +9 / -9
Approval: -3,487
Gold Stars: 82
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| MuddyWaters |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 14,113
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +32,257
Gold Stars: 236
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| DB |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,850
Posts Per Day: 15.49
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,022
Gold Stars: 386
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That’s because our economy sunk further than any other.
If you’re happy with empty shelves, soaring prices, reducing exports, rotting vegetables and no doctors, nurses and carers then that’s fine.
We had this before Brexit, it's made no difference. |
| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
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| aldi_01 |
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Posts: 12,008
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Approval: +5,679
Gold Stars: 473
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We had this before Brexit, it's made no difference.
May be we did, May be we didn’t but Brexit won’t see a positive outcome, as is being proven… |
| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| DB |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 18,850
Posts Per Day: 15.49
Reputation: 57.79%
Rep Score: +13 / -13
Approval: +4,022
Gold Stars: 386
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The politicians and Whitehall bureaucrats had 3 1/2 years from the vote to leave to manage a smooth transition. Once again those in highly paid jobs failed us, again, which is why we have today's problems with the EU and a certain frenchman who wants reelection.
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| You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time |
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| Maringer |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 11,210
Posts Per Day: 1.87
Reputation: 82.93%
Rep Score: +60 / -12
Approval: +16,545
Gold Stars: 185
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The issue is that the various Leave campaigns (good dodge around spending restrictions there, eh?) never thought they would win the referendum and therefore hadn't thought about what Brexit would actually mean other than some hand-wavy bullshit about sovereignty and sunlit uplands. Plenty of the senior Brexiteers were quoted saying we could remain in the customs union - because they were too dim to understand you can't sign new trade deals unless there was a complete split from the EU - unless you try to join the EFTA group of countries.
A hardish Brexit was the only option apart from this and this is where the wrangling began. Remember Johnson's 'brillian' Brexit deal which he negotiated along with the incomparably dense Lord Frost? It was the same thing that May had rejected earlier as something that no British PM could ever sign because it would effectively mean separating NI from the UK to some degree. Johnson, of course, didn't give a flying intercourse about NI, the peace process, or anything other than getting into power. Hence the ensuing shitshow as we try to pretend the 'fantastic' deal signed a couple of years ago isn't valid because those nasty Europeans insist on actually implementing it.
It says a lot that, due to our behaviour and rhetoric over the past couple of years, our only 'allies' (inverted commas because they really don't give a excrement about us but can use our support for their own ends) are a few countries in Eastern Europe with authoritarian right-wing governments (Neo-fascist in the case or Orban) who are fixing the judicial and voting systems to entrench their own power. Now, who else a bit closer to home does that sound like, eh?
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| Stadium |
| November 7, 2021, 12:47pm |
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Champagne Drinker  Posts: 2,346
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Reputation: 87.77%
Rep Score: +6 / 0
Approval: +1,926
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Britain is working on plans to withdraw from three major EU research programmes, which would see Brussels denied up to £15 billion funding.
Amid deteriorating relations with Brussels, the Government has commenced work on domestic alternatives should the UK pull the plug on Horizon Europe, Copernicus and Euratom.
They are the bloc’s €90 billion (£77 billion) flagship scientific, satellite, and nuclear programmes, which the UK agreed to remain part of when it signed the Brexit trade deal last year.
It suggests that ministers are actively drawing up measures to mitigate retaliatory options open to the European Commission, should Britain be forced to trigger Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol in the coming weeks.
The UK is set to contribute £2.1 billion annually to the seven-year Horizon programme in order to maintain access for British scientists and researchers to pan-European projects and funding.
It has also secured access to the Copernicus Earth observation programme, deemed vital to the UK space sector, while reaching a separate deal on continued involvement in the Euratom nuclear research programme.
However, entry has been stalled by the EU despite other non-member states such as Norway already receiving formal association status – meaning British institutions are missing out on research and funding opportunities.
Now a leaked government paper, circulated at a Brexit Cabinet sub-committee this week, has revealed that ministers believe the delay is a deliberate bid by Brussels to create leverage in the talks over Northern Ireland, and that the programmes will soon stop representing value for money.
On Saturday night, a senior government source said: "Blocking the UK from joining Horizon is in no one's interest – we can't participate and they lose out our financial contribution. We're having to look at alternatives in case the EU does block our access, which would be a breach of what we agreed less than a year ago."
Another source said the EU was at risk of breaching its obligations under Article 710 of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement.
The leaked document says that while there is hope the EU could de-escalate, departments have been told to prepare "alternatives to each programme in case association should not prove possible to a satisfactory timeline".
It is also understood that Lord Frost, the Brexit minister, has been working with Kwasi Kwarteng, the Business Secretary, on reviving a British alternative to Horizon Europe known as the Discovery Fund.
Sources familiar with the plans say a target date of early 2022 has been discussed and that any domestic schemes would be funded from the money that would have otherwise gone to the EU programmes.
In a sign that frustration with Brussels is at an all-time high, the paper goes on to say that work should begin even though the "programme benefits cannot be fully replicated in domestic alternatives" and withdrawing "would impact the ambition to become a science superpower".
Restoring Britain's place as a world leader in science is a key plank of Boris Johnson's vision for "Global Britain".
The plans come amid growing expectations that Mr Johnson could soon trigger Article 16, the so-called nuclear option enabling the UK to suspend parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol.
While the UK and EU remain locked in talks, senior government figures have revealed that the negotiations have so far failed to deliver any meaningful progress.
On Saturday night, they broke cover to publicly criticise the EU's plan to fix the protocol, warning that its proposals to cut customs checks, paperwork for hauliers and barriers to medicines flowing from Great Britain to Northern Ireland fall far short of what was promised.
While the talks ultimately hinge on the future role of the European Court of Justice in the province, UK negotiators say several of the EU proposals are "actually worse" than the grace periods currently in force.
In particular, Lord Frost's team have singled out the commission's vow to slash the number of checks by 50 per cent, arguing that it fails to remove a single product from having to go through typical customs processes and is too narrow to have any impact on a significant number of businesses.
The UK continues to argue that most of the checks on goods which pose no risk of leaking into the EU's Single Market should be removed. It has also challenged the bloc's claim that its plans will reduce the amount of export certificates lorry drivers need to fill out to one per load, asserting that the majority of lorries destined for Northern Ireland would still be stopped for checks.
Even on medicines, the EU's proposals are considered too complex to guarantee that the supply of some British drugs would remain viable, while some drugs for patients would continue to be supplied only on an emergency basis.
It is understood the UK is preparing to pull out of the talks by the end of November should the EU fail to move, with a government source saying on Saturday night: "They [the EU's proposals] don't deliver what they say on the tin. The number of checks and processes would still be unacceptably high, contrary to what the commission said when they first announced them.
"The Court of Justice would still be able to rule on laws in Northern Ireland, even though the people of Northern Ireland have no say on how they are made. When Maros Sefcovic comes to London next week, he must realise that a change in the EU's approach is needed. If that happens, we're optimistic that there is a way through this."
However, several influential figures in the Government already believe that triggering Article 16 is now inevitable, with one source warning: "Where we are right now is that the EU has shown zero signs of budging. If that's all we have got to work with then it's not the nuclear option, it's the only option."
Discussions over UK readiness for triggering it are accelerating, with ministers and officials currently debating whether to hold a Parliamentary vote should they be forced to act.
While holding one is not thought to be legally required, several government figures believe securing Parliament's support would strengthen the UK's hand and nullify the risk of campaigners seeking to challenge the decision through judicial review.
‘EU could seek to suspend entire Brexit trade deal’
Should the UK do so, the EU warned this week that it will face "serious consequences". The bloc is expected to hit back with punitive tariffs on high-value British exports, stricter controls of British lorries and suspension of the data transfer arrangements with the UK.
Some member states have suggested the EU could go further and seek to suspend the entire Brexit trade deal, causing major disruption for British businesses and consumers.
The UK's participation in Horizon, Euratom and Copernicus would also be likely to be used as leverage. According to the Government's latest paper, entitled "UK's approach to participation in EU programmes", a number of actions have been ordered to help mitigate against the threat.
These include the Department for Business (BEIS) developing a "handling plan" to ensure stakeholders in the programmes, such as universities and scientific institutions, are kept up to speed with the work on alternative plans.
BEIS, the Department of the Environment (Defra) and the Treasury have also been told to start preparing short-term measures to mitigate another delay in the UK's entry.
On specific programme replacements, the document says Defra and BEIS need to begin to prepare options for long-term investment to replace Copernicus and ways of addressing the impact of losing its data on the UK space sector.
For Horizon, it says planning for the Discovery Fund should be refreshed with new timescales in order for it to be delivered at pace, and for Euratom it says BEIS should open a dialogue with the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, the project to build the world's first functioning nuclear fusion system, in order to secure independent access.
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“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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| aldi_01 |
| November 10, 2021, 8:31am |
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Posts: 12,008
Posts Per Day: 2.03
Reputation: 73.73%
Rep Score: +54 / -20
Approval: +5,679
Gold Stars: 473
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Rising cases of scurvy since 2010…this separate to take us back to those rose tinted times must be buzzing their mammaries off…
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| 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza |
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| mariner91 |
| November 12, 2021, 11:12pm |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 15,512
Posts Per Day: 2.64
Reputation: 86.91%
Rep Score: +78 / -11
Location: Lincs
Approval: +19,658
Gold Stars: 262
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We had this before Brexit, it's made no difference.
When in the last 30 years have we had empty shelves? |
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