Brexit deal agreed

Quoted from Humbercod

Fair play Maringer! Gritted teeth no doubt but even you can’t defend the indefensible. They’ve dropped their guard showing all the Nazi credentials I and many others have been saying for many years.
Surprised the other fishy Remainers are so quite today because if Trump had behaved like this they’d of been frothing at the mouth to get on here.😄

You misread my posts. They made an error with the delay in signing the deal (though they've ordered 400 million doses of the AZ vaccine alone) and have been unlucky enough that both the AZ and Pfizer production has encountered problems.

If the boot was on the other foot we would be reacting in exactly the same way to try and get as many vaccines for our citizens as possible, whatever the rights or wrongs. Mentioning Nazis is flipping stupid.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The EU is lashing out because it is becoming more apparent that they are a bloated, slow-moving relic, and more and more people are seeing them for what they are - unreliable bullies.

The noble aims when the project started have evaporated into a culture of mismanagement, bloated bureaucracy, power struggles and ludicrous expenditure for those with their noses in the trough.

The British people had the good sense to say thanks, but no thanks.

The club is so mismatched, where a lot of members have not put any money into the project but are fed handouts; that cannot possibly work in the longer term, can it? There are already riots in some EU capitals as they realise the failings, and more and more countries will start to express their disquiet when the freebies start to dry up.

You're saying they are bullies, but fundamentally, they signed a deal which they thought entitled them to these vaccine doses - note, the contract released can be read either way. There is a mention of EU vaccines including those produced in the UK in this context so it is entirely understandable that they think they should be getting some of those when they've paid for them.

However, it was an error for the Commission to take so long to seal the deal and I'd imagine that the EMA could have authorised the AZ vaccine more quickly as well, had they so desired. The problem, I expect, is that they were quite happy with the way things were going until the new UK variant emerged right at the end of last year. With increased transmissibility of around 50%, the pandemic suddenly became much more difficult to control.

Bear in mind that, had we remained in the EU, we could still have ordered and authorised the vaccines ourself - we just didn't join the EU procurement process.

Given the talk about ludicrous expenditure and noses in the trough, I'd imagine you've not been paying much attention to the UK government procurement over the past year? Hedging their bets and ordering large quantities of a variety of vaccines is probably about the only thing we've done right.

Towards the end of last year, NAO reported just how much was spent on PPE with companies with politicial ties to the Tories:

https://www.theguardian.com/po.....tatus-report-reveals

That's billions given to their chums, often for little in return. Not to mention the billions spent on a Test and Trace system which didn't work properly until recently.

Quoted from Maringer

You're saying they are bullies, but fundamentally, they signed a deal which they thought entitled them to these vaccine doses - note, the contract released can be read either way. There is a mention of EU vaccines including those produced in the UK in this context so it is entirely understandable that they think they should be getting some of those when they've paid for them.

However, it was an error for the Commission to take so long to seal the deal and I'd imagine that the EMA could have authorised the AZ vaccine more quickly as well, had they so desired. The problem, I expect, is that they were quite happy with the way things were going until the new UK variant emerged right at the end of last year. With increased transmissibility of around 50%, the pandemic suddenly became much more difficult to control.

Bear in mind that, had we remained in the EU, we could still have ordered and authorised the vaccines ourself - we just didn't join the EU procurement process.

Given the talk about ludicrous expenditure and noses in the trough, I'd imagine you've not been paying much attention to the UK government procurement over the past year? Hedging their bets and ordering large quantities of a variety of vaccines is probably about the only thing we've done right.

Towards the end of last year, NAO reported just how much was spent on PPE with companies with politicial ties to the Tories:

https://www.theguardian.com/po.....tatus-report-reveals

That's billions given to their chums, often for little in return. Not to mention the billions spent on a Test and Trace system which didn't work properly until recently.

The fundamental difference between us and the EU is that we can elect, and then replace the Government. If our government makes such a mess of everything as you imply then we will elect another government.

Von Der Leyen is the European Commission President and nobody had heard of her outside of the Von Der Leyen household until she was appointed.

It is a very basic point but one that the majority of us had noticed more and more - the bureaucratic and undemocratic EU having more and more say in our lives. Luckily we don't have to put up with it any longer - not that it seems to have registered with Von Der Lyen yet.

Von der Leyen - senior politician in the CDU (Merkel's party) which has been in charge of Germany for donkey's years. Think of them as being the equivalent of the Tories of the 1990s. A very well-known politician in Germany. Just because you haven't heard of her, doesn't mean she's an unknown.

The European Commission is, and always has been, appointed by the European Council. It has to be approved by the European Parliament (who can also dismiss it, if they aren't happy with the chosen). Brexit is done - there's no need to try and insinuate that the EC isn't subject to democratic procedures any longer, especially as it's not the case.

More info from fullfact:

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/

The bureaucracy of the EU is actually pretty small in comparison to any individual government. Around 30,000 in comparison to the UK which has around 400,000 civil servants. It's a nonsense to claim there is massive, unwieldy bureaucracy across the channel.

Perhaps if they'd had a few more employees, they wouldn't have made such a balls-up with the vaccines?

Democracy is an interesting word. I saw it in action when I voted to join the Common Market and again when I voted to leave the EU.

I didn't get a vote to move from the Common Market into the EU. I didn't get a vote for a European President. I didn't get a vote for a European Commission. I didn't get a vote for a European Council. I was not asked to vote to see if I wanted a European Parliament (with 2 Parliament buildings).

Democracy is an interesting word.

Tony Blair now attacking the EU 😂

Quoted from Maringer

Von der Leyen - senior politician in the CDU (Merkel's party) which has been in charge of Germany for donkey's years. Think of them as being the equivalent of the Tories of the 1990s. A very well-known politician in Germany. Just because you haven't heard of her, doesn't mean she's an unknown.

The European Commission is, and always has been, appointed by the European Council. It has to be approved by the European Parliament (who can also dismiss it, if they aren't happy with the chosen). Brexit is done - there's no need to try and insinuate that the EC isn't subject to democratic procedures any longer, especially as it's not the case.

More info from fullfact:

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/

The bureaucracy of the EU is actually pretty small in comparison to any individual government. Around 30,000 in comparison to the UK which has around 400,000 civil servants. It's a nonsense to claim there is massive, unwieldy bureaucracy across the channel.

Perhaps if they'd had a few more employees, they wouldn't have made such a balls-up with the vaccines?

Ah the usual defence of its all ok because it is a rules-based organisation and we have protocols in place don't you know that keeps everything tickety boo.

And of course, we are democratic, it's just that we only turn to democracy when it suits us. Democracy is our middle name!

If you did not laugh you would cry.

The EU follows its rules apart from when it breaks them on a whim. Like on Friday night. It is so democratic it did not even consult the member states about something as important as the Irish protocol.

Not bureaucratic you say? Trying to order covid vaccines but having to go back and forth to 27 different countries each one haggling over quantity and price and having endless important meetings translated into 27  different languages, and then coming to a solution which leaves most of its populations at risk is what then?

They are so dogmatic their main goal is to protect the project at all costs; they abandoned a plan for the major countries in the EU to procure the vaccine and instead went round and round in circles with the 27 until a fudge was reached that has put peoples lives in danger.

Have you seen the Sunday papers? The whole world and his dog are rounding on the EU as a slow-moving bureaucratic monster. They showed their true colours on Friday and it will cause them lasting damage.

Thank God we left, but it is still interesting to see what the future brings for the EU, and whether it will survive in its present form.

When the EU finally crumbles and we’re all celebrating, we’ll look back at Brexit and the Vaccine grab as being at least 2 of the contributing factors, that helped to bring it down.

Quoted from Humbercod

When the EU finally crumbles and we’re all celebrating, we’ll look back at Brexit and the Vaccine grab as being at least 2 of the contributing factors, that helped to bring it down.

How embarrassing.

Meanwhile we continue to bury our heads and point fun at the EU whilst the equivalent of £10k a day since the Bronze Age has been wasted on a track and trace system that still doesn’t work...and many billions more handed out to folk with no knowledge of PPE or anything do the sort but happen to be mates with tories...cronyism at its finest.