Brexit deal agreed

Worth a loss of hundreds of billions in stock trades each month and the revenue that brings in?

As I've said in the past, if people wanted to leave the EU to regain complete sovereignty, then fair enough. Just don't try to pretend it will make us in any way wealthier. The most ardent of the Brexiteers dishonestly claim we can have our cake and eat it but it really is an either/or situation. I think we've lost a lot, lot more than we've gained and there isn't any evidence to prove me wrong as yet.

When Rees-Mogg said we'd see benefits 50 years down the line, he wasn't joking. Just guessing there would be obvious benefits. A couple of generations into the future.

Quoted from Maringer

Worth a loss of hundreds of billions in stock trades each month and the revenue that brings in?

As I've said in the past, if people wanted to leave the EU to regain complete sovereignty, then fair enough. Just don't try to pretend it will make us in any way wealthier. The most ardent of the Brexiteers dishonestly claim we can have our cake and eat it but it really is an either/or situation. I think we've lost a lot, lot more than we've gained and there isn't any evidence to prove me wrong as yet.

When Rees-Mogg said we'd see benefits 50 years down the line, he wasn't joking. Just guessing there would be obvious benefits. A couple of generations into the future.

Rees Mogg did say that 50 years comment, but not in the way you are implying.

I think he said the true economic position would not be known for a very long time, which is obviously true. I think the interviewer was pestering him for the immediate benefits of Brexit and he replied that Brexit was a long term thing, and the overwhelming benefit of Brexit will be over the next 50 years - not that we would have to wait 50 years.

That was in contrast to the interviewer demanding to know the immediate benefits of Brexit, and whether there would be "chaos" at our decision, and he was gently arguing that instant gratification is not what Brexit was about, it was taking back control (!) of our affairs and we would stand or fall by our own decisions over the next decades.

And he was correct, which is why the majority who voted chose to leave the sclerotic EU.

Quoted from Maringer

Worth a loss of hundreds of billions in stock trades each month and the revenue that brings in?

As I've said in the past, if people wanted to leave the EU to regain complete sovereignty, then fair enough. Just don't try to pretend it will make us in any way wealthier. The most ardent of the Brexiteers dishonestly claim we can have our cake and eat it but it really is an either/or situation. I think we've lost a lot, lot more than we've gained and there isn't any evidence to prove me wrong as yet.

When Rees-Mogg said we'd see benefits 50 years down the line, he wasn't joking. Just guessing there would be obvious benefits. A couple of generations into the future.

Firstly we have only been out of the EU for 6 months, so the evidence will mount up over the forthcoming years.

Secondly we had near 50 years of being conned.

Lastly, as for recent events of Covid EU nations are behind us for vaccinations, which is a hell of a gain. It's called life, ask the relatives of the millions of EU citizens that have died because the EU failed to implement vaccinations as soon as we did.

Quoted from DB

In quoting about the older generation you seem to have missed one vital point. It was the older generation that voted for us to go into the Common Market, a trading market; FULL STOP.

What happened after that was NOT what we voted for. I was not given a vote to decide upon a European Parliament, European commissions, or anything that would change the sovereignty or rule of law in this country.

The point about voting for Common Market is irrelevant. You make it sound like it was only up to the older generation if we remained or not because only they were around when voting took place to join it in the first place. Let's not forget Britain more or less begged to enter the common market being known as the sick man of Europe at the time.

Britain, initially, didn't want to be part of the initial European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) in 1961 or the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1967.

The British government did not engage in a significant way with these talks and signed neither treaty at the time. It disliked many of the supranational elements in the treaties, it was worried about damaging links with Commonwealth countries and it wished to pursue a ‘one-world economic system’ policy in which sterling was a central currency.

However, The UK’s non-participation meant that when it did join the EEC in 1973 it had to accept many elements controversial among some British voters, which were established before it joined: its supranationalism, the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) and the budget. In June 1975 the UK held a referendum to confirm its continuing membership of the EEC. The British people vote to stay in by 67% to 33%.  

So it seems you did vote for more than just a trade market after all.

While there are aspects of EU membership which aren't popular there is no denying Britain has changed, prospered and grew while being an EU member.

In the 1960's we made the mistake of not being involved at the outset of the EEC before seeing them prosper while we struggled. I just think we have gone and made the same mistake again and for what? Sovereignty? Laws being forced upon us? Upto the 2016 referendum the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999. So we agreed 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

We were member of an multinational multicultural organisation. We can't expect to have got our own way all of the time. But it seems we were pretty damn close.

Quoted from MarinerMal

The point about voting for Common Market is irrelevant. You make it sound like it was only up to the older generation if we remained or not because only they were around when voting took place to join it in the first place. Let's not forget Britain more or less begged to enter the common market being known as the sick man of Europe at the time.

Britain, initially, didn't want to be part of the initial European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) in 1961 or the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1967.

The British government did not engage in a significant way with these talks and signed neither treaty at the time. It disliked many of the supranational elements in the treaties, it was worried about damaging links with Commonwealth countries and it wished to pursue a ‘one-world economic system’ policy in which sterling was a central currency.

However, The UK’s non-participation meant that when it did join the EEC in 1973 it had to accept many elements controversial among some British voters, which were established before it joined: its supranationalism, the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) and the budget. In June 1975 the UK held a referendum to confirm its continuing membership of the EEC. The British people vote to stay in by 67% to 33%.  

So it seems you did vote for more than just a trade market after all.

While there are aspects of EU membership which aren't popular there is no denying Britain has changed, prospered and grew while being an EU member.

In the 1960's we made the mistake of not being involved at the outset of the EEC before seeing them prosper while we struggled. I just think we have gone and made the same mistake again and for what? Sovereignty? Laws being forced upon us? Upto the 2016 referendum the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999. So we agreed 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

We were member of an multinational multicultural organisation. We can't expect to have got our own way all of the time. But it seems we were pretty damn close.

If you are under about 50 years of age you weren't born when the vote was taken. What politicians of all sides told the electorate was simply this. 'We think we should trade with countries 20 miles across the channel rather than the like of Australia, Canada, and other countries around the world who are thousands of miles away.

It was put to the population as a trading agreement, FULL STOP. You can add to it what you like but we, the public of the day, were only told of a trading agreement.

You're quite obviously a remainder so stop whingeing. We had a DEMOCRATIC vote and Brexit has happened. There are many things that I have seen in my life which I disagree with but if that is the law then I accept it and move on.

Quoted from DB

If you are under about 50 years of age you weren't born when the vote was taken. What politicians of all sides told the electorate was simply this. 'We think we should trade with countries 20 miles across the channel rather than the like of Australia, Canada, and other countries around the world who are thousands of miles away.

It was put to the population as a trading agreement, FULL STOP. You can add to it what you like but we, the public of the day, were only told of a trading agreement.

You're quite obviously a remainder so stop whingeing. We had a DEMOCRATIC vote and Brexit has happened. There are many things that I have seen in my life which I disagree with but if that is the law then I accept it and move on.

What I've never understood was how the vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the custom union which is what the country voted to join / remain in 1975. The problem is that a trade relationship is always going to mean the need for some join rules and regulations which the leave side of the debate don't seem to accept. I guess we'll see what happens. My personal opinion is that we will have a much close relationship or be back in the EU in 20 years because youngsters tend to be much more pro-EU and with the university system meaning people meet people from the EU and develop relationships, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Quoted from Bawmariner

What I've never understood was how the vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the custom union which is what the country voted to join / remain in 1975. The problem is that a trade relationship is always going to mean the need for some join rules and regulations which the leave side of the debate don't seem to accept. I guess we'll see what happens. My personal opinion is that we will have a much close relationship or be back in the EU in 20 years because youngsters tend to be much more pro-EU and with the university system meaning people meet people from the EU and develop relationships, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Indeed. Of course, this is the only generation who have been young, or even gone to University.  

I was young-ish in 1975 when I voted no.

I don't think there is any chance of us rejoining the basket case that is the EU. If we ever thought about it the re-entry rules would be so harsh the British people, young or old, would not accept it.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Indeed. Of course, this is the only generation who have been young, or even gone to University.  

I was young-ish in 1975 when I voted no.

I don't think there is any chance of us rejoining the basket case that is the EU. If we ever thought about it the re-entry rules would be so harsh the British people, young or old, would not accept it.

Well up until the noughties relatively few people were going to university so there's definitely been a step change in society. Before I went to university I was anti-EU but developing close relationships from other European nations was one of the reasons I became pro-EU. Whether you like it or not the younger generation does generally identify as European. I imagine there'd be issues with rejoining and thats why I also said we could be in a closer relationship. Its pretty clear that unless there are large changes in opinions, demographic change will mean that the population becomes more pro-EU over the coming decades.

I'm not advocating rejoining right now though. Brexit has to be given time now that it has gone through but unless it begins showing some noticable benefits with the next 10-15 years I imagine we'll see a significant movement towards re-intergrating with the EU.

Quoted from Bawmariner

Well up until the noughties relatively few people were going to university so there's definitely been a step change in society. Before I went to university I was anti-EU but developing close relationships from other European nations was one of the reasons I became pro-EU. Whether you like it or not the younger generation does generally identify as European. I imagine there'd be issues with rejoining and thats why I also said we could be in a closer relationship. Its pretty clear that unless there are large changes in opinions, demographic change will mean that the population becomes more pro-EU over the coming decades.

I'm not advocating rejoining right now though. Brexit has to be given time now that it has gone through but unless it begins showing some noticable benefits with the next 10-15 years I imagine we'll see a significant movement towards re-intergrating with the EU.

Will there be an EU in the next 10/15 years? There a quite a few nations where leaving is now becoming more popular. I am under the impression Italy is one.

Just saying.

Quoted from DB

Will there be an EU in the next 10/15 years? There a quite a few nations where leaving is now becoming more popular. I am under the impression Italy is one.

Just saying.

Isn't the EU seen more favourably since Brexit by its member states. As others have said even people like Le Pen and Geert Wielders have stopped demanding referenda on membership. I imagine young people in most countries are fairly pro-EU as they've benefited from things like Erasmus and freedom of movement. The EU has plenty of issues but I doubt continental Europe wants to go back to border checks and therefore the EU will remain a necessity.