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Football Against Facism

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gtfc98
November 14, 2019, 10:13pm Report to Moderator
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Tweet 1195088681721323521 will appear here...


Is this still non-football? This is f**king disgraceful. f**k you Fenty. Thoroughly ashamed to be a town fan.


No longer Sick of the BlueSquare  
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jock dock tower
November 14, 2019, 10:22pm Report to Moderator
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F*cking snake oil salesman taking the p1ss out of the club. Shameful. Still it's revenue for the club so no problem there then, eh?


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
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The Old Codger
November 14, 2019, 10:26pm Report to Moderator
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An absolute disgrace. Whoever allowed this wants sacking.
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Stockport Mariner
November 14, 2019, 10:37pm Report to Moderator
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It’s absolutely appalling. Letting them use the room is one thing, printing shirts with their names on is effectively endorsing a blatantly racist party. Aside from the fans, I would expect thee are a few players in the club who aren’t happy about this.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from The Old Codger
An absolute disgrace. Whoever allowed this wants sacking.


I am not sure if you are being ironic OC. I hope so.
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Hagrid
November 14, 2019, 10:41pm Report to Moderator

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Im absolutely disgusted. As is my old man. A letter of complaint will be sent to the club. Ive seen many downs supporting this club, but the sight of that Right wing bigoted piece of filth holding the club shirt with his name printed makes me sick to the stomach.   Oh but we do our PR on the pitch. The club has made its bed. Can lie in it now. Ashamed to be a fan tonight
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from gtfc98
Tweet 1195088681721323521 will appear here...


Is this still non-football? This is f**king disgraceful. f**k you Fenty. Thoroughly ashamed to be a town fan.


Here we go again. Would you be ashamed if that was Jeremy Corbyn standing there with a shirt that said ONN for Grimsby? If not, then I would so lets call it quits.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid
Im absolutely disgusted. As is my old man. A letter of complaint will be sent to the club. Ive seen many downs supporting this club, but the sight of that Right wing bigoted piece of filth holding the club shirt with his name printed makes me sick to the stomach.   Oh but we do our PR on the pitch. The club has made its bed. Can lie in it now. Ashamed to be a fan tonight


A bit over the top isn't it?
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The Old Codger
November 14, 2019, 10:43pm Report to Moderator
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I am not sure if you are being ironic OC. I hope so.


I’m not being ironic in the slightest. Renting them a room is one thing, printing a shirt with a party leaders name on is another.
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Hagrid
November 14, 2019, 10:44pm Report to Moderator

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A bit over the top isn't it?


No. Its not. And if you look elsewhere on social media you’ll see the same level of disgust
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grimsby pete
November 14, 2019, 10:45pm Report to Moderator

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I think there are a few over the top comments on here.


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                           65 Years following the Town
                            Ian Holloway's  Black and White Army.
                                                UTMM

 
                            
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stockport Mariner
It’s absolutely appalling. Letting them use the room is one thing, printing shirts with their names on is effectively endorsing a blatantly racist party. Aside from the fans, I would expect thee are a few players in the club who aren’t happy about this.


Have you a shred of evidence for that claim?
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:48pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from The Old Codger


I’m not being ironic in the slightest. Renting them a room is one thing, printing a shirt with a party leaders name on is another.


Every commercial  meeting at a football club has the obligatory shirt with the name on photo opp. The worlds gone bloody mad.  
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mariner91
November 14, 2019, 10:49pm Report to Moderator
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Here we go again. Would you be ashamed if that was Jeremy Corbyn standing there with a shirt that said ONN for Grimsby? If not, then I would so lets call it quits.


The irony being that many on here would be absolutely spitting feathers if Jeremy Corbyn was in BP holding a Town shirt with his name printed on it.

Allowing the Brexit Party to use the room is one thing, I appreciate the club needs revenue and you can let anyone use the room without it being an endorsement. Printing the name of such a deplorable and divisive figure on the back of a club shirt, effectively endorsing him, is stupid in the extreme and is a new low in the club's PR. The club should stay politically neutral, this isn't doing so.


Grimsby till I die.
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 10:50pm Report to Moderator
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Every commercial  meeting at a football club has the obligatory shirt with the name on photo opp. The worlds gone bloody mad.  


Oh the irony.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:50pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid


No. Its not. And if you look elsewhere on social media you’ll see the same level of disgust


Oh well that seals it then. If social media says so it must be true lol.
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Hagrid
November 14, 2019, 10:51pm Report to Moderator

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Every commercial  meeting at a football club has the obligatory shirt with the name on photo opp. The worlds gone bloody mad.  


Good god man, it is NIGEL FARAGE holding the shirt. This isnt a commercial meeting. Its a political organisation. The man is a racist, like it or not. Once again the club is at the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 10:52pm Report to Moderator
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Have you a shred of evidence for that claim?


Yes it definitely happened.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


The irony being that many on here would be absolutely spitting feathers if Jeremy Corbyn was in BP holding a Town shirt with his name printed on it.

Allowing the Brexit Party to use the room is one thing, I appreciate the club needs revenue and you can let anyone use the room without it being an endorsement. Printing the name of such a deplorable and divisive figure on the back of a club shirt, effectively endorsing him, is stupid in the extreme and is a new low in the club's PR. The club should stay politically neutral, this isn't doing so.


Completely over the top. It is a photo opp not an endorsement of any kind, just the same as if Corbyn used the room and had a shirt with his name on.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 10:54pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


Yes it definitely happened.


Give us the evidence then.
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:02pm Report to Moderator
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Give us the evidence then.


Look at the first post,there's a picture of it.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:05pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid


Good god man, it is NIGEL FARAGE holding the shirt. This isnt a commercial meeting. Its a political organisation. The man is a racist, like it or not. Once again the club is at the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons


I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.

Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


Look at the first post,there's a picture of it.


You are quite pathetic.
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Hagrid
November 14, 2019, 11:07pm Report to Moderator

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I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.

Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?


You’re absolutely clueless. maybe if you contact Farage on his way out of town he’ll give you his shirt?
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forza ivano
November 14, 2019, 11:09pm Report to Moderator

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Have to say it doesn't look brilliant, especially at a club that has had problems in the past with episodes of racism. There are many examples of racists supporting or being members of the Brexit party, and in fact the founder of the party was forced to resign because of her islamaphobic views, whilst 1 of their regional organisers had migrated from the BNP. I'm sure maringer and others will have plenty of other examples.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid


You’re absolutely clueless. maybe if you contact Farage on his way out of town he’ll give you his shirt?


No I am not. I am swimming against the tide because I believe in free speech, and do not follow the current trends like a sheep on social media.

I don't particularly hold a candle for Farage but I like to see fair play. Like it or not he is a leader of a party in this election and should be given the same courtesies.
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano
Have to say it doesn't look brilliant, especially at a club that has had problems in the past with episodes of racism. There are many examples of racists supporting or being members of the Brexit party, and in fact the founder of the party was forced to resign because of her islamaphobic views, whilst 1 of their regional organisers had migrated from the BNP. I'm sure maringer and others will have plenty of other examples.


There's lots of examples.
Sensible people don't need to post endless links to prove points.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


Comedy gold.
Happy to see those pictures associated with the club..........


"Comedy gold" "Whoosh"

Are you about 10?
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mariner91
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I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.

Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?


Yeah it was Labour that have campaigned in the past in front of posters entitled "Breaking point" with a picture of a long line of people, none of whom were Caucasian. Jesus wept, are you being willfully stupid or are you just thick as shit?


Grimsby till I die.
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:14pm Report to Moderator
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"Comedy gold" "Whoosh"

Are you about 10?


The question is: are you?
Not going too well really for you here is it?
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


Yeah it was Labour that have campaigned in the past in front of posters entitled "Breaking point" with a picture of a long line of people, none of whom were Caucasian. Jesus wept, are you being willfully stupid or as you just thick as shit?


Labour is mired in antisemitism. Doesn't racism against Jews count in your book?
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gtfc98
November 14, 2019, 11:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


Yeah it was Labour that have campaigned in the past in front of posters entitled "Breaking point" with a picture of a long line of people, none of whom were Caucasian. Jesus wept, are you being willfully stupid or as you just thick as shit?


He’s just thick as excrement mate (and likely to be racist himself).


No longer Sick of the BlueSquare  
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Perkins
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It may be an appropriate time for the club to issue a statement dissasociating itself from the shirt incident, but given their past record for shooting themselves in the foot, they will probably announce that Farage is the new (far) right winger we have all been calling for.












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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


The question is: are you?
Not going too well really for you here is it?


I am swimming against the tide that is for sure.

It would be boring if all our views were the same though, wouldn't it?

Besides, I am right and you are wrong.
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mariner91
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Labour is mired in antisemitism. Doesn't racism against Jews count in your book?


And yet there is far more Islamophobia within the Tories than there is anti-semitism in Labour which nobody seems to be bothered about. Racism of any kind is abhorrent. Therefore, the club allowing a man who's campaigned using racism to have his name printed on the club shirt and taking photos with it is just plain stupid.

The man is a fascist. Football clubs should be politically neutral.


Grimsby till I die.
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mariner91
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I am swimming against the tide that is for sure.

It would be boring if all our views were the same though, wouldn't it?

Besides, I am right and you are wrong.


Ok boomer.


Grimsby till I die.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


And yet there is far more Islamophobia within the Tories than there is anti-semitism in Labour which nobody seems to be bothered about. Racism of any kind is abhorrent. Therefore, the club allowing a man who's campaigned using racism to have his name printed on the club shirt and taking photos with it is just plain stupid.

The man is a fascist. Football clubs should be politically neutral.


With a Tory non chairman???? How would that work out? I am sure McMenemys is available for bookings for the Labour party, or any other party to show they are neutral.
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Stadium
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I am swimming against the tide that is for sure.

It would be boring if all our views were the same though, wouldn't it?

Besides, I am right and you are wrong.


I'll just sit back and observe & see how this goes from here....
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


Ok boomer.


I think you have used that insult before to somebody else haven't you?
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forza ivano
November 14, 2019, 11:28pm Report to Moderator

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No I am not. I am swimming against the tide because I believe in free speech, and do not follow the current trends like a sheep on social media.

I don't particularly hold a candle for Farage but I like to see fair play. Like it or not he is a leader of a party in this election and should be given the same courtesies.


Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats  or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


I'll just sit back and observe & see how this goes from there....


You do realise this is a discussion forum with a few GTFC fans on a late Thursday night? Its not Question Time and it is not going to make headline news tomorrow.

Who gives a monkeys how "it goes."

Have a view, defend it; that is all there is to it.  
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano


Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats  or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton


If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:35pm Report to Moderator
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You do realise this is a discussion forum with a few GTFC fans on a late Thursday night? Its not Question Time and it is not going to make headline news tomorrow.

Who gives a monkeys how "it goes."

Have a view, defend it; that is all there is to it.  


From the person who quotes:

"Besides, I am right and you are wrong"
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:36pm Report to Moderator
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If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.


Oh my.
That is superb.

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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


From the person who quotes:

"Besides, I am right and you are wrong"


Good grief, it was a joke.

Mind you, I stand by it.
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forza ivano
November 14, 2019, 11:37pm Report to Moderator

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If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.


Wow.just wow
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


Oh my.
That is superb.



You would deny free speech?
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:40pm Report to Moderator
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You would deny free speech?


Read the text below & your response:

Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats  or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton


If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano


Wow.just wow


What is "wow" about it? Allowing people to air their views is somehow wrong? That is a dangerous road to go down.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Stadium


Read the text below & your response:

Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats  or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton


If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.


But would you deny free speech, one of the fundamental cornerstones of the British political system?
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forza ivano
November 14, 2019, 11:43pm Report to Moderator

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You would deny free speech?


You are missing the point. Yes the BNP are entitled to stand and Express their views (within the law obviously) but that doesn't mean you want your business/community/ club to be associated with them. It's just not a good look for a club that's keen to shake off  it's old reputation and become an inclusive community club
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Stadium
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Quoted from forza ivano


You are missing the point. Yes the BNP are entitled to stand and Express their views (within the law obviously) but that doesn't mean you want your business/community/ club to be associated with them. It's just not a good look for a club that's keen to shake off  it's old reputation and become an inclusive community club


Exactly.
Which is the whole point of this discussion.
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Chrisblor
November 14, 2019, 11:45pm Report to Moderator

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You would deny free speech?


You're conflating free speech with the right to say whatever you like without other people being offended by it. They're not the same thing. Farage is free to go around demonising migrants, but people are also free to take and air their offence with his views. Just log off, you're making yourself look like a mug.


gary jones
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Bigdog
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To be fair I don't think it's wise for the club to rent out a room to any political party whether in an election or otherwise. The level of income gained from it would be insignificant enough to not make a valid commercial reason to do so. Poorly thought through and divisive decision by the club imho..

Though I seem to remember at the last general election that the gtfc hashtag got hijacked on Twitter by the Labour Party and its supporters as well as Corbyn flags at some of our games, but I guess it's ok for some to mix GTFC with politics as long as the colour is red. No better than the club in that regard..
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Stadium
November 14, 2019, 11:46pm Report to Moderator
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But would you deny free speech, one of the fundamental cornerstones of the British political system?


The question was around those groups been associated with club.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 14, 2019, 11:47pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano


You are missing the point. Yes the BNP are entitled to stand and Express their views (within the law obviously) but that doesn't mean you want your business/community/ club to be associated with them. It's just not a good look for a club that's keen to shake off  it's old reputation and become an inclusive community club


I never said anything about the BNP, apart from their right to free speech. This argument is about the Brexit party, a party that won the last UK wide election and has been unfairly  vilified on  here as some extreme racist party who should not be allowed the same courtesy as the Labour party or any other party.
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Perkins
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Given that the guy has an ego the size of the whole of Europe, it's possible he bought the shirt himself so he could hold it up in front of the media to show how the people of Grimsby loved him.
If someone bought it for him then they wasted their money cos I bet within five minutes of him leaving BP it was in a council bin because he doesn't give a sh.t about this  town or it's people. Self serving tw@t.















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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Chrisblor


You're conflating free speech with the right to say whatever you like without other people being offended by it. They're not the same thing. Farage is free to go around demonising migrants, but people are also free to take and air their offence with his views. Just log off, you're making yourself look like a mug.


That is the second time this evening you have resorted to insults, and it is not a good look.

You are entitled to your view as I am entitled to mine.

Edit. To be fair I did call Stadium pathetic which was a mistake. Wrong would have been better.
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Stadium
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I never said anything about the BNP, apart from their right to free speech. This argument is about the Brexit party, a party that won the last UK wide election and has been unfairly  vilified on  here as some extreme racist party who should not be allowed the same courtesy as the Labour party or any other party.


Chill out Nige.
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forza ivano
November 14, 2019, 11:53pm Report to Moderator

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I never said anything about the BNP, apart from their right to free speech. This argument is about the Brexit party, a party that won the last UK wide election and has been unfairly  vilified on  here as some extreme racist party who should not be allowed the same courtesy as the Labour party or any other party.


But it was you that mixed up the 2 things by misunderstanding the point ,and thinking it was about denying free speech which was never the argument. I have already given you 2 easy examples of the sort of people who were part of the party and I'm pretty sure there will be many more examples, without even mentioning that infamous billboard

Ps I'd be equally as dismayed if it was Ken Livingstone or George Galloway pulling a similar stunt
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:07am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano


But it was you that mixed up the 2 things by misunderstanding the point ,and thinking it was about denying free speech which was never the argument. I have already given you 2 easy examples of the sort of people who were part of the party and I'm pretty sure there will be many more examples, without even mentioning that infamous billboard

Ps I'd be equally as dismayed if it was Ken Livingstone or George Galloway pulling a similar stunt


There are dozens, perhaps hundreds of instances of members being called out and/or expelled from all political parties for unsavory views, but you choose to show two from the Brexit party to suit your narrative.

You mention Livingstone or Galloway, so you are really saying that you do not want anyone you don't agree with to hold a political meeting at BP, and, horror of horrors, hold up a Town shirt.
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Theimperialcoroner
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Gotta love politics on the Fishy.
Bottom line is Farage is a disgusting neo liberal girl private.
It’s ok to spout the stuff he spouts as long as it’s equally ok to call it out for exactly what it is. Racist, fascist & populist bile. If you fall for it you are probably pretty stupid or a racist yourself (the two are not mutually exclusive either).

Idiocy for the club to have a booking of this nature as you know the snake oil salesman will exploit it.

I’d rather the club was an apolitical entity as it would be selfish of me to want it to represent my views, although this is quite common on the continent, Roma or Lazio are examples of extremes. One thing is for sure though , we are so much better than flipping arseholes like Farage.
I’m ashamed of my club for letting the fornicator cross the threshold.


Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
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monkeyboy
November 15, 2019, 7:20am Report to Moderator
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Got to say these left wingers are looking more like the fascists nowadays than the actual supposed Fascists.
What with all this censorship because they don't like other peoples views and such like.

Im town through and through, im also Brexit party voter because i like there views. im not a rascist at all.
You will find also that the Brexit party is currently the most popular party by the last vote that took place i,e the European elections so it is fair point to say they are popular.

All those saying this is a disgrace need to lighten up a bit and stop being snowflakes getting offended by everything.
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Dan
November 15, 2019, 7:24am Report to Moderator

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The Brexit party don’t have any views. They’ve never even released a manifesto. It’s a money making business venture for an egomaniac that exists only to con the gullible.


Quoted from John Fenty, April 2013
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The disgrace is the club for allowing Farage to get a town shirt have it printed and slapping it all over social media. Whilst i despise Farage and his party, who imo are racist, its a free country and people can vote for who they like. Just feel the club have once again copulated up.  
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gtfc98
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Quoted from monkeyboy
Got to say these left wingers are looking more like the fascists nowadays than the actual supposed Fascists.
What with all this censorship because they don't like other peoples views and such like.

Im town through and through,
Quoted Text
im also Brexit party voter because i like there views. im not a rascist at all.

You will find also that the Brexit party is currently the most popular party by the last vote that took place i,e the European elections so it is fair point to say they are popular.

All those saying this is a disgrace need to lighten up a bit and stop being snowflakes getting offended by everything.



It’s just not possible for those 2 things to be mutually exclusive. The Brexit parties views ARE racist.

Good use of snowflake though. Maybe I’ll lighten up a bit when the country I was once proud of, thought was inclusive, tolerant and welcoming stops being dragged into the gutter by the likes of these grifters.


No longer Sick of the BlueSquare  
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November 15, 2019, 8:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


Ok boomer.


Why do people use American derogatory slang - why not just say 60 year olds shouldn't have an opinion because they are just old farts
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Mallyner
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What I would prefer to see on here is Football against Politics.  


Supporting Town for 63 years, training to be an alcoholic for 50 years.  
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ska face
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Quoted from monkeyboy
Got to say these left wingers are looking more like the fascists nowadays than the actual supposed Fascists.
What with all this censorship because they don't like other peoples views and such like..


I don’t think you know what fascism is.
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golfer
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Quoted from ska face


I don’t think you know what fascism is.


" is a form of far right authoritarian ultranationalism characterised by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and the economy "  any party spring to mind ?
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Quoted from gtfc98

You will find also that the Brexit party is currently the most popular party by the last vote that took place i,e the European elections so it is fair point to say they are popular.

All those saying this is a disgrace need to lighten up a bit and stop being snowflakes getting offended by everything.



It’s just not possible for those 2 things to be mutually exclusive. The Brexit parties views ARE racist.

Good use of snowflake though. Maybe I’ll lighten up a bit when the country I was once proud of, thought was inclusive, tolerant and welcoming stops being dragged into the gutter by the likes of these grifters.
[/quote]


Arent Labour also known as as Jew haters? just saying.  it has been well reported as so.
Im not Racist and i support the Brexit party.
Im pretty sure the vast Majority of all parties are the same with a few racists chucked into the mix, i mean just look at David Lammy, proper anti white as it can get.

The biggest problem is tarring people with the same brush. very unfair.

Strange people say Farage is anti foreign really when his own wife is German. He is anti Euro not Europe. I think personally the guy is a plank but brings balance.

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ginnywings
November 15, 2019, 9:07am Report to Moderator

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JF is a Tory. Farage is a Tory in disguise, but being outside of the mainstream Tory party, he can express the views that many Tories hold, but can't publicly voice. He is only contesting Labour held seats, which helps the Tories and divides the voters, because he is, you know, divisive. Why wouldn't JF allow this event?

I hate Farage and all he stands for and i have this morning become even more detached from the club i once loved.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 9:33am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid
The disgrace is the club for allowing Farage to get a town shirt have it printed and slapping it all over social media. Whilst i despise Farage and his party, who imo are racist, its a free country and people can vote for who they like. Just feel the club have once again copulated up.  


I am not quite sure why you think you have all the answers. Why on earth should you be the judge of who can and cannot be presented with a Town shirt. Some people would be equally appalled if Jeremy Corbyn was presented with one. Live and let live.

Bandying about words like fascist and racist about people who do not share your views is ridiculous.
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Malta_Mariner_90
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Quoted from ginnywings
JF is a Tory. Farage is a Tory in disguise, but being outside of the mainstream Tory party, he can express the views that many Tories hold, but can't publicly voice. He is only contesting Labour held seats, which helps the Tories and divides the voters, because he is, you know, divisive. Why wouldn't JF allow this event?

I hate Farage and all he stands for and i have this morning become even more detached from the club i once loved.


Nail on the head. Exactly how I feel. The football is excrement, the atmosphere is at best dull and the club is run by people who allow a political stunt to occur with the country's most divisive political figure.

A football club should be a place where we leave our political views at the gate and all join together in supporting our home team. It does not matter if you are labour, conservative or god for bid Brexit Party. We are all Town fans and this sort of stunt just makes me think why should I give a fook anymore?  
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Heisenberg
November 15, 2019, 9:40am Report to Moderator
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This is officially the most boring, OTT thread in Fishy history!
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sam gy
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Anyone could see from a mile off that allowing the Brexit Party to hold an event at our football stadium was a terrible decision. Who could really be so naive as to think they wouldn’t use their choice of venue and leach on to the club for their own political gains??

A truly terrible decision by the club, whether they endorse it or not, they let it happen. End of.

And now what do we have? A divided fan base and personally speaking, a sick feeling in my stomach.

We already know the club doesn’t care much for its fans, but did they bother to think about how our playing staff and management team might think about all this? And how this might affect further recruitment? Might sound a bit OTT, but there’s no saying how some people might react to the picture.


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I am not quite sure why you think you have all the answers. Why on earth should you be the judge of who can and cannot be presented with a Town shirt. Some people would be equally appalled if Jeremy Corbyn was presented with one. Live and let live.

Bandying about words like fascist and racist about people who do not share your views is ridiculous.


So how would you describe standing in front of a poster called "Breaking Point" which depicts a line of brown people if it isn't racism?


Grimsby till I die.
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I am not quite sure why you think you have all the answers. Why on earth should you be the judge of who can and cannot be presented with a Town shirt. Some people would be equally appalled if Jeremy Corbyn was presented with one. Live and let live.

Bandying about words like fascist and racist about people who do not share your views is ridiculous.


Because, whether you like it or not, farage is a racist. Give your head a wobble for christ sake
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Hagrid
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Quoted from mariner91


So how would you describe standing in front of a poster called "Breaking Point" which depicts a line of brown people if it isn't racism?


Dont bother putting facts to him. He’ll just revert it back to Corbyn
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Posh Harry
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Quoted from ginnywings
JF is a Tory. Farage is a Tory in disguise, but being outside of the mainstream Tory party, he can express the views that many Tories hold, but can't publicly voice. He is only contesting Labour held seats, which helps the Tories and divides the voters, because he is, you know, divisive. Why wouldn't JF allow this event?

I hate Farage and all he stands for and i have this morning become even more detached from the club i once loved.


Hi ginny. Appreciate your feelings for the club, but can you please continue to post your views on the fishy. You haven’t done so very often lately and I for one miss your balanced and intelligent arguements.

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rancido
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Quoted from golfer


" is a form of far right authoritarian ultranationalism characterised by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and the economy "  any party spring to mind ?


That description sounds more like Communism to me, especially the regimes of Stallin, Chairman Mao etc.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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Farage is the modern day Oswald Moseley, and the club have given him free rein to associate them with him. It's beyond stomach churning.


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 10:06am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid


Because, whether you like it or not, farage is a racist. Give your head a wobble for christ sake


I do not agree that Farage is a racist. I don't believe Corbyn is a racist even though the party he leads is riddled with it. Calling people racist at every opportunity is silly.
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ska face
November 15, 2019, 10:08am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from rancido


That description sounds more like Communism to me, especially the regimes of Stallin, Chairman Mao etc.


Fascism isn’t communism. That’s quite clear. Mao and Stalin also quite different. Please read a book.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from sam gy
Anyone could see from a mile off that allowing the Brexit Party to hold an event at our football stadium was a terrible decision. Who could really be so naive as to think they wouldn’t use their choice of venue and leach on to the club for their own political gains??

A truly terrible decision by the club, whether they endorse it or not, they let it happen. End of.

And now what do we have? A divided fan base and personally speaking, a sick feeling in my stomach.

We already know the club doesn’t care much for its fans, but did they bother to think about how our playing staff and management team might think about all this? And how this might affect further recruitment? Might sound a bit OTT, but there’s no saying how some people might react to the picture.


What about the Town fans who support the Brexit party? Don't they have a choice?
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Maringer
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I do not agree that Farage is a racist. I don't believe Corbyn is a racist even though the party he leads is riddled with it. Calling people racist at every opportunity is silly.


If the Labour party is riddled with racists, what does that make the Tories?



https://www.jewishvoiceforlabo.....epresented-groups-2/

Of course there will be some racists in a party with so many members. Just a reflection of society. However, the left-wing parties have a lot fewer racists in them than the right-wing parties. There was a survey the other year (possibly an Ashcroft poll?) which indicated this clearly. Don't have time to search for it now, however.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 10:16am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer


If the Labour party is riddled with racists, what does that make the Tories?



https://www.jewishvoiceforlabo.....epresented-groups-2/

Of course there will be some racists in a party with so many members. Just a reflection of society. However, the left-wing parties have a lot fewer racists in them than the right-wing parties. There was a survey the other year (possibly an Ashcroft poll?) which indicated this clearly. Don't have time to search for it now, however.


Thats all right then  

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I do not agree that Farage is a racist. I don't believe Corbyn is a racist even though the party he leads is riddled with it. Calling people racist at every opportunity is silly.


Ah the old anti-Semitism line which has surprisingly little evidence despite the fact they're "riddled" with it.

Good job Nigel himself would never express any anti-semitic sentiments on national radio. https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/nigel-farage-urged-to-apologise-for-jewish-lobby-remark/


Grimsby till I die.
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ginnywings
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Quoted from Posh Harry


Hi ginny. Appreciate your feelings for the club, but can you please continue to post your views on the fishy. You haven’t done so very often lately and I for one miss your balanced and intelligent arguements.



Thanks for that but there's not really much to say that hasn't been said repeatedly for years. The football at BP is as dull as ever and i'm taking a break from it to do other stuff on a weekend that's more enjoyable and rewarding. I still read the fishy but don't feel i have much to contribute as i haven't seen a single game this season, which is the first time in 48 seasons that i have had a prolonged absence from the ground by choice. Sad thing is that i don't miss it at all.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from mariner91


Ah the old anti-Semitism line which has surprisingly little evidence despite the fact they're "riddled" with it.

Good job Nigel himself would never express any anti-semitic sentiments on national radio. https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/nigel-farage-urged-to-apologise-for-jewish-lobby-remark/


Christ on a bike - even Jewish MP's have left to stand for other parties. Isn't it funny it is not racism as we know it when it affects your preferred party?
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rancido
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Quoted from ska face


Fascism isn’t communism. That’s quite clear. Mao and Stalin also quite different. Please read a book.


Well if you read my post you will see that I was referring to the quoted description. Of course I know they are different but ultimately lead to similar situations when practiced in the examples I quoted.


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forza ivano
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There are dozens, perhaps hundreds of instances of members being called out and/or expelled from all political parties for unsavory views, but you choose to show two from the Brexit party to suit your narrative.

You mention Livingstone or Galloway, so you are really saying that you do not want anyone you don't agree with to hold a political meeting at BP, and, horror of horrors, hold up a Town shirt.


once again you misrepresent what i said , either wilfully, naively or simply by an inability to read a post.
i don't want any politician from the extremes to be associating themselves with my club, which as i said is trying manfully, to shed it's old poor image and become a modern, inclusive community club.
i never even mentioned the fact about the facilities being used by Farage. Indeed i don't have a problem with the club hiring out it's facilities - they were caught between a rock and a hard place for 2 reasons a) imagine the furore that would've been caused by Brexit party supporters that the club was denying a legal political party the chance to hold  a meeting, - denial of free speech etc. and b) the club could've become embroiled in a political row, given the party allegiance of our beloved supreme leader. can you imagine the headlines; 'Tory council leader bans Brexit Party from holding meeting' ?

please try to read the posts carefully before shooting from the hip, and i'd be grateful in future if you would refrain from misrepresenting my points. Thanks you
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Christ on a bike - even Jewish MP's have left to stand for other parties. Isn't it funny it is not racism as we know it when it affects your preferred party?


When did I say it isn't racism? I have no doubts that there will be a small percentage of Labour Party members who are anti-semitic. Racism is deplorable in any shape or form. But your claims that the party is riddled with it just isn't backed up with evidence. There may be anti-zionist sentiments but that is not the same and anyone who thinks it is needs to educate themselves. Has the party done enough to sort out the minority of issues that are present? Probably not. But saying it's riddled with it just shows that you're easily led by the right wing, capitalist media that fear Corbyn.

There is far more evidence of racism from Tory members (Windrush scandal, hostile environment, rampant Islamophobia) and Farage (singing Hitler youth songs as a child, Breaking Point poster, anti-semitic views on national radio) but you'll let that slide cause it doesn't fit your narrative.


Grimsby till I die.
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grimsby pete
November 15, 2019, 10:38am Report to Moderator

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Well  that was an experience ,

Reading all the posts on here.

Well I am afraid to admit I have just seen Farage holding his Town shirt on the Victoria Derbyshire programme  ,

What a disgrace !!!!!!!!!!!

Me watching the Victoria Derbyshire programme I mean.


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What about the Town fans who support the Brexit party? Don't they have a choice?


I think you're missing my point.

The club has managed to divide it’s fan base by allowing a political party to use their facilities and latch on to the club’s name for it’s own gain. Doesn’t matter where you stand politically, this was categorically a terrible decision by the club.

No one is saying you don’t get a say….you’re having it right now.


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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from sam gy


I think you're missing my point.

The club has managed to divide it’s fan base by allowing a political party to use their facilities and latch on to the club’s name for it’s own gain. Doesn’t matter where you stand politically, this was categorically a terrible decision by the club.

No one is saying you don’t get a say….you’re having it right now.


So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?
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So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?


No, I think it only applies to the political parties some posters don't agree with.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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Quoted from jock dock tower
Farage is the modern day Oswald Moseley, and the club have given him free rein to associate them with him. It's beyond stomach churning.


Exactly that! History will not look favourably on him.


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So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?


that position does have some logic
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grimsby pete
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I would imagine all the posters giving it some about Farage holding a meeting at the club would come on here and say a lot about Boris or any other leader of a party if they held a meeting at our political  free club.

Fenty has said we need to get more revenue into the club apart from a match day and when they do the Fishy goes banana's.

Don't blame the club for trying to get extra revenue .

As fans we have no say in who rents Blundell Park and that is correct otherwise it would never be hired out.

We all have views on what direction we want our country to go in and neither of the leavers or remainers are right or wrong its just their personal view, There is no need for all the name calling that some on here revert to when they are not getting the other person to change their mind.


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sam gy
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So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?


Yes.

Especially if they’re going to use the facilities to frame the club as being supportive of their party.

Unless of course, it is….but that’s a whole other can of worms.

You can support the Brexit Party all you want, but you can’t say that this has been a really great PR decision from the club.


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sam gy
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Quoted from grimsby pete

Fenty has said we need to get more revenue into the club apart from a match day and when they do the Fishy goes banana's.

Don't blame the club for trying to get extra revenue .

As fans we have no say in who rents Blundell Park and that is correct otherwise it would never be hired out.



But it’s more than just ‘getting revenue in’ Pete.

It’s a feather in the cap for a political party, and a divisive one at that. They have milked the fact that they’ve rented the facilities completely and are using the club to promote themselves. It’s my personal opinion that a local, community football club should not be letting that happen.


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ska face
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It’s just another fantastic decision from the brains at BP with no thought about the long term impact. It’s clear the decision some FANS thought it was beyond the pale - the club can probably survive without £20 here and £18 there. What about the commercial side though? Do people think Young’s will be mega keen to see Farage wafting their logo? The club is supported by hundreds of small local business, they’d better hope those businesses are happy with this new association.

That’s an awful lot of flat caps and scratch cards to sell if some big sponsors pull out...
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grimsby pete
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Just a question did the club give the said shirt to Farage or did he buy it himself  and have his name put on when he visited the club earlier in the week in his Rolls ?


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Chrisblor
November 15, 2019, 11:13am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face
It’s just another fantastic decision from the brains at BP with no thought about the long term impact. It’s clear the decision some FANS thought it was beyond the pale - the club can probably survive without £20 here and £18 there. What about the commercial side though? Do people think Young’s will be mega keen to see Farage wafting their logo? The club is supported by hundreds of small local business, they’d better hope those businesses are happy with this new association.

That’s an awful lot of flat caps and scratch cards to sell if some big sponsors pull out...


Did you get banned from twitter for insulting some melts or have you given up on it entirely?


gary jones
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ska face
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Nah just binned it mate, bad for the blood pressure.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
November 15, 2019, 11:17am Report to Moderator
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This is just another own goal by the club. The politics is utterly irrelevant. Unfortunately the OP set this thread off with a one-sided politically divisive rant instead of looking at what really matters and sadly others follow suit with nipple for jumble insults.

To allow one party leader, Attila The Hun or Chairman Mao or whoever it is, to use the club facilities  is just incredibly naive at best and stupid at worst.These are politicians, they are expert in milking a situation for maximum effect. That is their day job.

It is hard to believe that Coun Fenty was not aware and gave his blessing. If not then he really is dafter than I thought and that takes some doing, but for certain someone's head should roll.


"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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golfer
November 15, 2019, 11:27am Report to Moderator
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Next home match- Tory and Brexit in the stands  Labour,Remainers,Greens,Fascists,and non-democratic Liberal Dems in Toilets  
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grimsby pete
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Maybe in the coming weeks the Cons , Lab, Lib, and Green party will hire the venue seeing how much interest the Brexit party got from hiring it.


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Quoted from grimsby pete
Just a question did the club give the said shirt to Farage or did he buy it himself  and have his name put on when he visited the club earlier in the week in his Rolls ?


First of all I doubt very much that he bought it. He's a taker not a giver otherwise the hypocritical twit wouldn't be drawing his salary as a Euro MP

All he needs is a squad number on the shirt and judging by recent team selections Jolley would probably put him in the team next week



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

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This is appalling, I hate Farage and everything he stands for, to see this man at our club is unforgivable. It will divide our support massively and is such a bad move. Shame on the people who let this happen.
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It's hard to believe the amount of sanctimonious hyperbole that has been aired in 11 pages of views on this thread.


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Sir Matt Tease
November 15, 2019, 11:45am Report to Moderator
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This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.

The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.

I for one am glad that I was  child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.

This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !

PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !
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Dan
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Ok boomer


Quoted from John Fenty, April 2013
I deconstructed the flag to the point where it was safe and couldn’t be considered a danger
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So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?


Yep, during an election campaign at the very least. If the Brexit Party want to hold a rally at BP, why aren't they fielding a candidate in Cleethorpes? Wasn't there anywhere in Grimsby where it could have been held?

Would be interesting to see if any one of the other 92 clubs have hosted Farage and his hangers-on. I can't say his party members because, as noted before, the Brexit Party Ltd only has 3 members - well, directors. Lots of 'registered supporters', certainly, but no members with any voting rights or even rights for the hopefuls to be refunded the money they paid to be considered as candidates in the first place! And they call people who want us to remain in the UK antidemocratic...
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forza ivano
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Quoted from Sir Matt Tease
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.

The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.

I for one am glad that I was  child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.

This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !

PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !


well they obviously do, hence the thread and arguments
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Maringer
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It is hard to believe that Coun Fenty was not aware and gave his blessing. If not then he really is dafter than I thought and that takes some doing, but for certain someone's head should roll.


It does reek of a Fentyism. Even if he's a Brexiteer himself (which seems quite possible), not understanding this would be so divisive and would alienate a substantial chunk of the fanbase is just stupidity.

Perhaps he's sacked Jolley to deflect attention?

Just kidding. I think.
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gtfc98
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Quoted from golfer
Next home match- Tory and Brexit in the stands  Labour,Remainers,Greens,Fascists,and non-democratic Liberal Dems in Toilets  


You really are a stupid girl private.


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gtfc98
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Quoted from Sir Matt Tease
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.

The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.

I for one am glad that I was  child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.

This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !

PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !


IN MY DAY YOU HAD RESPEKT FOR YOUR ELDERS AND YOU WERKED HARD FOR UR MASTERS AND MEN WERE MEN AND WOMEN WERE WOMEN AND IF THEY WERNT IN THE KITCHEN WERE THEY BELOYNGD THEN ID STOP THERE POKIT MONEY.

Ok Boomer.


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Quoted from gtfc98


IN MY DAY YOU HAD RESPEKT FOR YOUR ELDERS AND YOU WERKED HARD FOR UR MASTERS AND MEN WERE MEN AND WOMEN WERE WOMEN AND IF THEY WERNT IN THE KITCHEN WERE THEY BELOYNGD THEN ID STOP THERE POKIT MONEY.

Ok Boomer.


Very witty.

Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Quoted from golfer


" is a form of far right authoritarian ultranationalism characterised by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and the economy "  any party spring to mind ?


Johnson’s Conservatives! Wanted to shut down Parliament because he didn’t want the other MPs to debate laws.


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gtfc98
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Very witty.

Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.



My use of Boomer refers to mentality rather than the era he was born in.


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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from grimsby pete
I would imagine all the posters giving it some about Farage holding a meeting at the club would come on here and say a lot about Boris or any other leader of a party if they held a meeting at our political  free club.

Fenty has said we need to get more revenue into the club apart from a match day and when they do the Fishy goes banana's.

Don't blame the club for trying to get extra revenue .

As fans we have no say in who rents Blundell Park and that is correct otherwise it would never be hired out.

We all have views on what direction we want our country to go in and neither of the leavers or remainers are right or wrong its just their personal view, There is no need for all the name calling that some on here revert to when they are not getting the other person to change their mind.


I do blame the club Pete. Shouldn’t allow any political party to use the facilities. It is inevitably divisive. And from a purely commercial point of view it is shortsighted.

Add in the way the country has become so split down the middle and the tension, it is particularly important at this time for football clubs to avoid party politics.

Then you add in the whole inclusivity issue, and, like it or not Farage and the Brexit Party and UKIP are associated with racists and racist views. It is rank stupidity of the club to even go near it.


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I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from Sir Matt Tease
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.

The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.

I for one am glad that I was  child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.

This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !

PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !


Matt, like you I was brought up on the do as you would be done by principle, and I still hold to that. That is why tackling sexism, racism, and any other form of identity bias is important.

Football and politics don’t mix? You should have said that before Farage had his rally at BP!


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Old mans just been at the ground, had words with Steve Wraith. Club saying they have done nothing wrong, didnt give the shirts they were bought then auctioned off.
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Quoted from Ipswin


First of all I doubt very much that he bought it. He's a taker not a giver otherwise the hypocritical twit wouldn't be drawing his salary as a Euro MP

All he needs is a squad number on the shirt and judging by recent team selections Jolley would probably put him in the team next week



Not now he won't!



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Maringer


Yep, during an election campaign at the very least. If the Brexit Party want to hold a rally at BP, why aren't they fielding a candidate in Cleethorpes? Wasn't there anywhere in Grimsby where it could have been held?

Would be interesting to see if any one of the other 92 clubs have hosted Farage and his hangers-on. I can't say his party members because, as noted before, the Brexit Party Ltd only has 3 members - well, directors. Lots of 'registered supporters', certainly, but no members with any voting rights or even rights for the hopefuls to be refunded the money they paid to be considered as candidates in the first place! And they call people who want us to remain in the UK antidemocratic...


Oh come on - pull the other one!

Had Corbyn held a rally at BP during this election you would have been first in the queue to get the best seat in the house! You would have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the Labour party being there.

You are now trying to tell the Brexit party where they can and cannot hold election meetings. What is up wtih you? You must surely see it is undemocratic and plain wrong. You have let your apparent disgust of the Brexit party cloud your judgement.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Hagrid
Old mans just been at the ground, had words with Steve Wraith. Club saying they have done nothing wrong, didnt give the shirts they were bought then auctioned off.


Of course they have done nothing wrong, they cannot be swayed by you and your old man just because you don't like the Brexit party!
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from gtfc98


My use of Boomer refers to mentality rather than the era he was born in.


Oh "mentally"? I see. You mean you are using it in your capacity as a "snowflake"?



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Of course they have done nothing wrong, they cannot be swayed by you and your old man just because you don't like the Brexit party!


I dont like racists. And i dont like my club hosting them.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Johnson’s Conservatives! Wanted to shut down Parliament because he didn’t want the other MPs to debate laws.


That was becasue the opposition benches were determined to wreck the bill by tabling amendments which if passed would make it unrecognizable.

The government had its hands tied by the Benn act which was only allowed by the collusion of the speaker.
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gtfc98
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Quoted from Hagrid
Old mans just been at the ground, had words with Steve Wraith. Club saying they have done nothing wrong, didnt give the shirts they were bought then auctioned off.


Of course he said that! the guy is a useless Yes man.

*Edit* That's Wraith not your Dad!


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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete
Maybe in the coming weeks the Cons , Lab, Lib, and Green party will hire the venue seeing how much interest the Brexit party got from hiring it.


I hope that happens Pete, then we would have another load of hyperbolic nonsense from the other side.

Free speech for all I say.

Actually, aren't there discriminatory laws the club has to abide by? Imagine the stink if the Brexit party (or any other party) had tried to hire the venue and the club said no. That would make the front pages, and if it was illegal on the grounds of discrimination a court case.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:15pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Hagrid


I dont like racists. And i dont like my club hosting them.


I dont like the way Corbyn has allowed racism to invade the labour party, but I would never ban him.
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ska face
November 15, 2019, 1:17pm Report to Moderator

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Actually, aren't there discriminatory laws the club has to abide by? Imagine the stink if the Brexit party (or any other party) had tried to hire the venue and the club said no. That would make the front pages, and if it was illegal on the grounds of discrimination a court case.



Being bigoted is not a protected characteristic

You’re really bad at this.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face



Being bigoted is not a protected characteristic

You’re really bad at this.


But still better than you.

Bigoted is just your personal opinion.
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That was becasue the opposition benches were determined to wreck the bill by tabling amendments which if passed would make it unrecognizable.

The government had its hands tied by the Benn act which was only allowed by the collusion of the speaker.


Oh! I thought it was an offence against free speech to want to ban the Brexit Party from holding a meeting at Blundell Park. But you don’t think it’s an offence against free speech to want to shut up the duly elected representatives of the people.

You my son are a bigger hypocrite than you accuse others of being!


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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ska face
November 15, 2019, 1:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face



Being bigoted is not a protected characteristic

You’re really bad at this.


Anne Widdecombe, Brexit Party MEP, is openly and objectively homophobic. It’s not my opinion, it’s a matter of public record.

If you want to nail your colours to that mast, and with Claire Fox of the Brexit Party who defended Gary Glitter’s right to download child porn, that’s your call.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Oh! I thought it was an offence against free speech to want to ban the Brexit Party from holding a meeting at Blundell Park. But you don’t think it’s an offence against free speech to want to shut up the duly elected representatives of the people.

You my son are a bigger hypocrite than you accuse others of being!


I think you are getting beyond the realms of reality with that comparison. The government of the day conducts the business in the House as I am sure you know. The speaker pulled every trick in the book to stop the government conducting its business. There is no comparison to that and free speech.
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Chrisblor
November 15, 2019, 1:29pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face
Nah just binned it mate, bad for the blood pressure.


Ah that's a shame. Understandable though


gary jones
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from ska face


Anne Widdecombe, Brexit Party MEP, is openly and objectively homophobic. It’s not my opinion, it’s a matter of public record.

If you want to nail your colours to that mast, and with Claire Fox of the Brexit Party who defended Gary Glitter’s right to download child porn, that’s your call.


And you don't think there are many similar examples in every other party lol?

I don't vote Brexit party, it is the principle of free speech and their right to say it I am defending.
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ska face
November 15, 2019, 1:31pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chrisblor


Ah that's a shame. Understandable though


I’ve got until 13th Dec to reactivate it. We’ll see what happens on the 12th before I decide whether it’s worth it
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ska face
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And you don't think there are many similar examples in every other party lol?

I don't vote Brexit party, it is the principle of free speech and their right to say it I am defending.


And here comes the backtrack...
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face


And here comes the backtrack...


There is no back track from me. I wont vote for the Brexit party becasue Martin Vickers is my MP and I will support him. You think you are trying to be oh so clever but it will never work with me.
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I think you are getting beyond the realms of reality with that comparison. The government of the day conducts the business in the House as I am sure you know. The speaker pulled every trick in the book to stop the government conducting its business. There is no comparison to that and free speech.


Laws can only be passed by a majority of MPs. That’s part of the British constitution. If there hadn’t been a majority for it, the Benn Act would not have been passed. Simple!

You do not have to be in the government if the day to propose a bill.

The other simple fact is, Johnson did not have a majority for his bill without amendments.

I drew a logical comparison between your claim to support free speech in one case but deny it in another. You are a hypocrite. If you cannot see that you are also stupid.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Laws can only be passed by a majority of MPs. That’s part of the British constitution. If there hadn’t been a majority for it, the Benn Act would not have been passed. Simple!

You do not have to be in the government if the day to propose a bill.

The other simple fact is, Johnson did not have a majority for his bill without amendments.

I drew a logical comparison between your claim to support free speech in one case but deny it in another. You are a hypocrite. If you cannot see that you are also stupid.


It is still too  much of a stretch to compare the workings of Parliament with the ability of the Brexit party to hold a meeting at BP. We are all hypocrites to a degree - you presumably are quite happy for the Labour party to hold any meetings where they like whilst denying Brexit supporters the same privilege.
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There is no back track from me. I wont vote for the Brexit party becasue Martin Vickers is my MP and I will support him. You think you are trying to be oh so clever but it will never work with me.


We already knew someone saying something intelligent was going to go straight over your head.


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Quoted from ska face


I’ve got until 13th Dec to reactivate it. We’ll see what happens on the 12th before I decide whether it’s worth it


Don't abandon us there's not many sane ones left!

#GetSkaFaceOnTwitter


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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 1:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from gtfc98


We already knew someone saying something intelligent was going to go straight over your head.


It certainly wouldn't be you would it.
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There is no back track from me. I wont vote for the Brexit party becasue Martin Vickers is my MP and I will support him. You think you are trying to be oh so clever but it will never work with me.


Being clever will not work with you.

Well I think that’s quite clear! Have a lovely weekend
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ska face
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Quoted from gtfc98


Don't abandon us there's not many sane ones left!

#GetSkaFaceOnTwitter


I’ll be leaving the country if it goes mammaries up, never mind twitter.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from ska face


Being clever will not work with you.

Well I think that’s quite clear! Have a lovely weekend


You too. Are you going to a Corbyn rally, or will he be banned ?
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Quoted from ska face


I’ll be leaving the country if it goes mammaries up, never mind twitter.


I already am!  


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Oh come on - pull the other one!

Had Corbyn held a rally at BP during this election you would have been first in the queue to get the best seat in the house! You would have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the Labour party being there.

You are now trying to tell the Brexit party where they can and cannot hold election meetings. What is up wtih you? You must surely see it is undemocratic and plain wrong. You have let your apparent disgust of the Brexit party cloud your judgement.


As I've never been a member of a political party and have never been to a political rally, you'd be wrong about that.

Also, please don't insinuate I'm a liar. When I say wouldn't agree with the club hosting any political rally, I meant what I said. The fakery is ridiculous - does anybody really think Farage gives one tiny toss about GTFC when he's holding up a shirt? It's a PR stunt offering free publicity.

I'd imagine Corbyn is nominally an Arsenal fan (as you'd expect from somebody who has lived in Islington for decades) but my guess is that he's really not that bothered about football. Having to attend matches at a weekend would get in the way of all sorts of protests and marches. Not a Cameron type who was so stupid, he forgot he should be pretending to support Villa instead of West Ham.

If a political party wants to hire a venue for a general meeting outside of an election campaign, it wouldn't be so bad, I suppose. However, this was nothing more than a PR stunt and the tacit implication is that GTFC (and by association, their fans) supports Farage and his dogwhistle brand of politics. That's what makes me feel sick.
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mariner91
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I hope that happens Pete, then we would have another load of hyperbolic nonsense from the other side.

Free speech for all I say.

Actually, aren't there discriminatory laws the club has to abide by? Imagine the stink if the Brexit party (or any other party) had tried to hire the venue and the club said no. That would make the front pages, and if it was illegal on the grounds of discrimination a court case.


Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.



Grimsby till I die.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Maringer


As I've never been a member of a political party and have never been to a political rally, you'd be wrong about that.

Also, please don't insinuate I'm a liar. When I say wouldn't agree with the club hosting any political rally, I meant what I said. The fakery is ridiculous - does anybody really think Farage gives one tiny toss about GTFC when he's holding up a shirt? It's a PR stunt offering free publicity.

I'd imagine Corbyn is nominally an Arsenal fan (as you'd expect from somebody who has lived in Islington for decades) but my guess is that he's really not that bothered about football. Having to attend matches at a weekend would get in the way of all sorts of protests and marches. Not a Cameron type who was so stupid, he forgot he should be pretending to support Villa instead of West Ham.

If a political party wants to hire a venue for a general meeting outside of an election campaign, it wouldn't be so bad, I suppose. However, this was nothing more than a PR stunt and the tacit implication is that GTFC (and by association, their fans) supports Farage and his dogwhistle brand of politics. That's what makes me feel sick.


Nice try but it wont wash with me. You are a big Corbyn fan are you not? You would not have blinked an eyelid if the Labour party had hired that venue.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from mariner91


Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.



You had better stop posting then!

Imagine the furore if the Brexit party had been denied hiring the facilities at BP because they were, err the Brexit party!

The media would have had a field day.
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Nice try but it wont wash with me. You are a big Corbyn fan are you not? You would not have blinked an eyelid if the Labour party had hired that venue.


Second polite request. Stop calling me a liar. I wouldn't have said I don't think any political party should be holding rallies at BP if I didn't mean it.

Despite my support for the only major left-wing party in the UK these days, I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn who hasn't perhaps been the strongest of leaders and has definitely dithered too much at times. However, I can appreciate he has been on the back foot from day one after his unexpected victory in the leadership election. We've seen the Blairite rump of the party do absolutely everything they can to get rid of him including a couple of failed coups (even though his mandate from Labour members was huge), we've seen their friendly media launch attack after attack and, of course, the right-wing media are always going to be lying and obfuscating about anything that is said or done. It's the lies that irritate me most. The media pump out outright lies which intensify in the lead up to an election. Up until the 2015 election, I had a subscription to The Times because, though obviously right-leaning, their news reporting was generally relatively balanced (it was just half the columnists who were whack jobs). However, once the 2015 election campaign began, the paper was flooded with articles which were telling outright lies about Miliband, Labour policies and economics. I cancelled my subscription in disgust because I'm not paying for propaganda. I hate the fact that outright lies rather than intelligent policy based on proper is what is winning elections these days.

For all Corbyn's failings, I do recognise that he's an authentic politician which is more than can be said about those who stand against him - the Johnsons, Farages and Swinsons of this world. Does anybody seriously think Corbyn is in it for himself after being happy to sit on the backbenches for decades, spending his time working for his consituents and campaigning for human rights, anti-racism, peace, equality etc etc? It's clear that he wants to improve the lot of the poorest in society and the Labour Party is the only major political party with this clear aim.

The only involvement I've had with the party is I registered as a supporter back in 2015 to vote in the leadership election and I think it was 20 quid I donated at the time. I seem to recall I donated the same amount last election and will do the same again this time. I don't have the time or inclination to join the party itself though they are now more closely aligned with my politics.
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Maringer


Second polite request. Stop calling me a liar. I wouldn't have said I don't think any political party should be holding rallies at BP if I didn't mean it.

Despite my support for the only major left-wing party in the UK these days, I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn who hasn't perhaps been the strongest of leaders and has definitely dithered too much at times. However, I can appreciate he has been on the back foot from day one after his unexpected victory in the leadership election. We've seen the Blairite rump of the party do absolutely everything they can to get rid of him including a couple of failed coups (even though his mandate from Labour members was huge), we've seen their friendly media launch attack after attack and, of course, the right-wing media are always going to be lying and obfuscating about anything that is said or done. It's the lies that irritate me most. The media pump out outright lies which intensify in the lead up to an election. Up until the 2015 election, I had a subscription to The Times because, though obviously right-leaning, their news reporting was generally relatively balanced (it was just half the columnists who were whack jobs). However, once the 2015 election campaign began, the paper was flooded with articles which were telling outright lies about Miliband, Labour policies and economics. I cancelled my subscription in disgust because I'm not paying for propaganda. I hate the fact that outright lies rather than intelligent policy based on proper is what is winning elections these days.

For all Corbyn's failings, I do recognise that he's an authentic politician which is more than can be said about those who stand against him - the Johnsons, Farages and Swinsons of this world. Does anybody seriously think Corbyn is in it for himself after being happy to sit on the backbenches for decades, spending his time working for his consituents and campaigning for human rights, anti-racism, peace, equality etc etc? It's clear that he wants to improve the lot of the poorest in society and the Labour Party is the only major political party with this clear aim.

The only involvement I've had with the party is I registered as a supporter back in 2015 to vote in the leadership election and I think it was 20 quid I donated at the time. I seem to recall I donated the same amount last election and will do the same again this time. I don't have the time or inclination to join the party itself though they are now more closely aligned with my politics.


Apologies for any offence caused, I thought we were debating the hypocrisy of some people who would allow one party to hold a rally but not another. If you say you would ban all parties having a meeting during an election at BP then I believe you.

I don't think that applies to other people on here though, who would be quite happy to see a Labour party meeting at BP, but not so keen on others having the same privilege.Was it the Labour party who held a rally at Blackpool FC, I wonder if there was an outcry there about that?
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mariner91
November 15, 2019, 3:38pm Report to Moderator
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You had better stop posting then!

Imagine the furore if the Brexit party had been denied hiring the facilities at BP because they were, err the Brexit party!

The media would have had a field day.


“Dear Mr Farage,

Thank you for your enquiry about using our function room to host a political meeting with your supporters. As a football club we try to remain politically neutral as we understand we have a wide range of political leanings from across the political spectrum amongst our fanbase. We do not wish to alienate any of our fans or be seen to be endorsing any political party.

It is therefore, with regret, that we have to reject your request to use our function room. However, we wish you the best of luck in finding another suitable venue nearby.

Yours sincerely
Grimsby Town Football Club”

That was hard wasn’t it?


Grimsby till I die.
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mariner91
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Apologies for any offence caused, I thought we were debating the hypocrisy of some people who would allow one party to hold a rally but not another. If you say you would ban all parties having a meeting during an election at BP then I believe you.

I don't think that applies to other people on here though, who would be quite happy to see a Labour party meeting at BP, but not so keen on others having the same privilege.Was it the Labour party who held a rally at Blackpool FC, I wonder if there was an outcry there about that?


And yet not a single person has said they would only ban one particular party. Your argument is based on your own assumption about what others have implied.


Grimsby till I die.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91


“Dear Mr Farage,

Thank you for your enquiry about using our function room to host a political meeting with your supporters. As a football club we try to remain politically neutral as we understand we have a wide range of political leanings from across the political spectrum amongst our fanbase. We do not wish to alienate any of our fans or be seen to be endorsing any political party.

It is therefore, with regret, that we have to reject your request to use our function room. However, we wish you the best of luck in finding another suitable venue nearby.

Yours sincerely
Grimsby Town Football Club”

That was hard wasn’t it?


If Corbyn had booked the venue, there would not have been this disquiet. That is the point.
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marinerdazza
November 15, 2019, 3:49pm Report to Moderator
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If Corbyn had booked the venue, there would not have been this disquiet. That is the point.


You are joking, right?
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mariner91
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Jesus wept, you are seriously dim. Most people, myself included, have said explicitly that they wouldn’t want the club to host any party or to be seen to endorse them because clubs should remain politically neutral when there’s such a diverse range of beliefs and views across the fanbase. The fact people have said that but you keep making the same inane, unfounded arguments anyway says a lot more about you than it does about them.


Grimsby till I die.
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Chrisblor
November 15, 2019, 4:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Maringer
I'd imagine Corbyn is nominally an Arsenal fan (as you'd expect from somebody who has lived in Islington for decades) but my guess is that he's really not that bothered about football. Having to attend matches at a weekend would get in the way of all sorts of protests and marches. Not a Cameron type who was so stupid, he forgot he should be pretending to support Villa instead of West Ham.


Comes across as a proper supporter in this piece on Labour's policies towards football club ownership and ticket pricing (copy German fan ownership model, increase the amount of TV money invested in grass-roots & lower league football, two fan directors on the board of every club etc) - https://www.theguardian.com/po.....ns-in-premier-league

I'm yet to hear any proposals from the Tories on football. I don't think anyone from across the entire political spectrum can suggest the current status quo, where the Premier League clubs rake in hundreds of millions each year while it becomes ever more expensive and difficult for lower league and grassroots football teams to stay afloat, can continue for much longer.


gary jones
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Chrisblor
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If Corbyn had booked the venue, there would not have been this disquiet. That is the point.


There absolutely would have been. There are plenty of gtfc supporters gleefully celebrating all the 'triggered snowflakes' who are upset about Farage turning up last night. You're telling me all of those lot would simply have gone "yeah right fair enough" if Jeremy Corbyn had turned up at Blundell Park and held a town shirt up? Give over.


gary jones
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rancido
November 15, 2019, 4:06pm Report to Moderator

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It's so easy for all these posters to say the club shouldn't get involved in politics but I've lost count the number of times these same sanctimonious posters have alluded to the fact that JF is a Conservative Councillor - such irony!!


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Chrisblor
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Quoted from rancido
It's so easy for all these posters to say the club shouldn't get involved in politics but I've lost count the number of times these same sanctimonious posters have alluded to the fact that JF is a Conservative Councillor - such irony!!


Fenty has an endless list of faults, but one thing I can give him credit for is the fact he doesn't use the club as a vehicle for his own politics. He's not hosting Conservative party rallies in the ground and getting Martin Vickers to hold up a town shirt during an election campaign. So no, it isn't ironic, you're just drawing a baseless comparison.


gary jones
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 4:17pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91
Jesus wept, you are seriously dim. Most people, myself included, have said explicitly that they wouldn’t want the club to host any party or to be seen to endorse them because clubs should remain politically neutral when there’s such a diverse range of beliefs and views across the fanbase. The fact people have said that but you keep making the same inane, unfounded arguments anyway says a lot more about you than it does about them.


You are being wise after the event. There has been the faux outrage because it is the Brexit party, it is as simple as that.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 4:19pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mariner91
Jesus wept, you are seriously dim. Most people, myself included, have said explicitly that they wouldn’t want the club to host any party or to be seen to endorse them because clubs should remain politically neutral when there’s such a diverse range of beliefs and views across the fanbase. The fact people have said that but you keep making the same inane, unfounded arguments anyway says a lot more about you than it does about them.


If you said that before Farage turned up then fair play to you.
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rancido
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Quoted from Chrisblor


Fenty has an endless list of faults, but one thing I can give him credit for is the fact he doesn't use the club as a vehicle for his own politics. He's not hosting Conservative party rallies in the ground and getting Martin Vickers to hold up a town shirt during an election campaign. So no, it isn't ironic, you're just drawing a baseless comparison.


Hireing the club facilities is business - pure and simple. If you are a committed vegan, are you going to make a big issue over the fact that the club serves meat products? The UK has a huge arms industry, would you complain that some of it's customers are not to your liking and jeopardise jobs, people's livelihoods, just to take the higher moral ground. Get real and realise this is the real world and not some Utopia dreamed up in a student common room.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 4:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rancido


Hireing the club facilities is business - pure and simple. If you are a committed vegan, are you going to make a big issue over the fact that the club serves meat products? The UK has a huge arms industry, would you complain that some of it's customers are not to your liking and jeopardise jobs, people's livelihoods, just to take the higher moral ground. Get real and realise this is the real world and not some Utopia dreamed up in a student common room.


I know we haven't been on the same side on other issues but I agree entirely with this and your other posts.

Looking back on the earlier pages of this thread, going by the upticks/downticks it is pretty much a score draw. It is a very divisive issue as we have seen.

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GYinScuntland
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What is "wow" about it? Allowing people to air their views is somehow wrong? That is a dangerous road to go down.


Too right, they tried doing that over in Europe during the thirties and it didn't really go down too well...
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November 15, 2019, 5:15pm Report to Moderator
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I know we haven't been on the same side on other issues but I agree entirely with this and your other posts.

Looking back on the earlier pages of this thread, going by the upticks/downticks it is pretty much a score draw. It is a very divisive issue as we have seen.



Having just read through the entire eighteen pages I salute you (and no it's not a fascist one) for almost single-handedly arguing the case for the defence. Like you I find the trend nowadays to bandy about words like fascist and racist so casually objectionable and pathetic. People are perfectly entitled to dislike Farage, The Brexit Party and what they stand for, but to describe Farage as a fascist and even compare him to Moseley (as one poster did) is ridiculous.

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diehardmariner
November 15, 2019, 5:21pm Report to Moderator
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Political views aside, this is just stupid by the club..

Be it by intention of not, they're now endorsing The Brexit Party after this photo.  Did they really think that Chris Barker and Farage wanted names with their shirts on for when they play 5-a-side?
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lew chaterleys lover
November 15, 2019, 5:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ROKERITE


Having just read through the entire eighteen pages I salute you (and no it's not a fascist one) for almost single-handedly arguing the case for the defence. Like you I find the trend nowadays to bandy about words like fascist and racist so casually objectionable and pathetic. People are perfectly entitled to dislike Farage, The Brexit Party and what they stand for, but to describe Farage as a fascist and even compare him to Moseley (as one poster did) is ridiculous.



Thank you - much appreciated. Certain things seem to trigger an avalanche of confected outrage none more so than Nigel Farage with all the usual mudslinging that goes with it.

I have been trying to argue that unless a blanket ban was in force before this event on all political parties, he should be afforded the same courtesy as any other party leader. Grimsby did vote 71% for Brexit after all.

Alas, the mere mention of Farage is too much of a trigger.

Even I am bored with it now so will make this my last post on the matter!
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Sir Matt Tease
November 15, 2019, 5:26pm Report to Moderator
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[quote=657]

Very witty.

Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.

Could you re-post this again...............in English ?

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I know we haven't been on the same side on other issues but I agree entirely with this and your other posts.

Looking back on the earlier pages of this thread, going by the upticks/downticks it is pretty much a score draw. It is a very divisive issue as we have seen.



Thank you, everybody should agree to differ and respect anothers point of view. I voted for the Brexit Party in the EU elections but I am not a racist. I voted to leave the EU but I am not a racist. I want immigration controlled but I am not a racist. I condemn terrorism in the name of Islam but I am not an Islamaphobe. Sadly, too many people take one aspect of your opinions, generalise it and use it as a condemnation of your beliefs.


The Future is Black & White.
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Sir Matt Tease
November 15, 2019, 5:38pm Report to Moderator
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[quote=259]

IN MY DAY YOU HAD RESPEKT FOR YOUR ELDERS AND YOU WERKED HARD FOR UR MASTERS AND MEN WERE MEN AND WOMEN WERE WOMEN AND IF THEY WERNT IN THE KITCHEN WERE THEY BELOYNGD THEN ID STOP THERE POKIT MONEY.

Ok Boomer.

Sorry Ron, did not mean your post, it was this message presumably written in Urdu !


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Marinerz93
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Very witty.

Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.



Don't let the cry babies get to you, you don't even need to reply to the millennial's who say ok boomer to you, You get in your expensive car and go back to your big house and you enjoy your nice life, whilst they sit their in their self loathing crying how life is unfair into their pumpkin latte.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from Marinerz93


Don't let the cry babies get to you, you don't even need to reply to the millennial's who say ok boomer to you, You get in your expensive car and go back to your big house and you enjoy your nice life, whilst they sit their in their self loathing crying how life is unfair into their pumpkin latte.


Small car, small house   . Very little gets to me these days.  I like to see funnies but I do get cheesed by the inaccuracy of this imported from the US  tee shirt slogan which just proves the point that those using it have little idea of fact or even reality. According to them they are of course the first ever generation to fight fascism!



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Marinerz93
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Small car, small house   . Very little gets to me these days.  I like to see funnies but I do get cheesed by the inaccuracy of this imported from the US  tee shirt slogan which just proves the point that those using it have little idea of fact or even reality. According to them they are of course the first ever generation to fight fascism!



I know in the great Brexit thread you often get remoaners talking excrement and being annoying as intercourse towards people they don't agree with but they fail to understand crying and whinging won't accomplish anything, and no one gives a excrement they are offended.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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sam gy
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If people can’t get their head around why it is a bad move for a football club at the heart of local community to hire out their facilities to a divisive political party and let them use the clubs name to promote their agenda/campaign, then I despair.

The mammoth thread on here and the discussions on social media show that this was clearly a stupid move on the clubs part. Online/social media doesn’t account for everyone I know, but it’s a pretty big snapshot and a good indication of opinion.

It’s not about free speech, it’s not about silencing any political party and it’s followers. It was just a flipping stupid move. This was clearly not ‘just business’ for some function room.


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rancido
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Quoted from sam gy
If people can’t get their head around why it is a bad move for a football club at the heart of local community to hire out their facilities to a divisive political party and let them use the clubs name to promote their agenda/campaign, then I despair.

The mammoth thread on here and the discussions on social media show that this was clearly a stupid move on the clubs part. Online/social media doesn’t account for everyone I know, but it’s a pretty big snapshot and a good indication of opinion.

It's posters like you that make it more than it was and that is purely for business reasons. Are you implying that this was politically motivated and that those who control the running of the club are actually Brexit Party supporters?
It’s not about free speech, it’s not about silencing any political party and it’s followers. It was just a flipping stupid move. This was clearly not ‘just business’ for some function room.




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There are two things in this world businesses should not involve themselves with. Religion and politics.

The problem is the people at this football club behind-the-scenes do not understand public relations, do not understand commercialism, do not understand business.

The sorry state of affairs is somebody allowed this to happen. Who?
I understand John Fenty is Conservative.. and therefore will want to dilute the Labour vote but....

To sell our football club out to anothing political party is disgusting. The ineptitude of the people running this football club is embarrassing. For me, the blame lies with the same people who are high-fiving themselves for their “forwardthinking“ in booking the soccer express before the Chelsea tie was confirmed.
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Vance Warner
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Disgusted about the whole episode and what has happened to the club and the shirt I love. You can say all you want about the Brexit Party and tell me I'm over reacting but the bottom line is I won't be attending BP again this season. That is why this should never have been allowed to happen.
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Quoted from Vance Warner
Disgusted about the whole episode and what has happened to the club and the shirt I love. You can say all you want about the Brexit Party and tell me I'm over reacting but the bottom line is I won't be attending BP again this season. That is why this should never have been allowed to happen.


Agree absolutely will be posting my shirt back to GT FC in the morning, embarrassed to be associated with Grimsby in any way today
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I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.

Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?


Take a look at The Lobby investigation, available on YouTube, you can buy lies if you want to believe them, like pretending the Tories haven’t been in power for the last 9 years and they are not privatising the NHS by stealth( ask anyone who works in it). Like it’s not them who held the referendum, had a majority failed to pass a Brexit deal, had another election, paid the DUP over a billion pounds so they had a majority and still failed to deliver Brexit.
Boris the clown even voted against a deal he had signed up to, in short the Tories failed to get it done , Boris is not dead in a ditch but as a serial liar no one expected it. We have had 9 years of Tories and they have failed in everything and this is the record we should vote on

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Azimuth
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Quoted from Stockport Mariner
It’s absolutely appalling. Letting them use the room is one thing, printing shirts with their names on is effectively endorsing a blatantly racist party. Aside from the fans, I would expect thee are a few players in the club who aren’t happy about this.


Can you explain your "blatantly racist" statement?
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All I can say is that for a “community club” to allow any “political leader” such an opportunity to attach their narcissism to our beloved black and white stripes suggest John Fenty and his small minded cronies should eff off now!!!

No doubt I’ll be told to “shut up”.

Clubs a disgrace and out of control.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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KingstonMariner
November 15, 2019, 10:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rancido


Hireing the club facilities is business - pure and simple. If you are a committed vegan, are you going to make a big issue over the fact that the club serves meat products? The UK has a huge arms industry, would you complain that some of it's customers are not to your liking and jeopardise jobs, people's livelihoods, just to take the higher moral ground. Get real and realise this is the real world and not some Utopia dreamed up in a student common room.


That's weak logic coming from you Rancido. There are plenty of people who object to the UK arms industry selling arms to dodgy foreign countries like Saudi Arabia. Committed vegans would never book a venue that had meat offerings. Whether you agree with them or not, what you said is illogical.

And from a business point of view having the Brexit booking is going to harm GTFC commercially. For a start it's alienated more fans than is worth it for a few hundred quid. It's not endeared itself to politicians, local or national, who will have a say on decisions that could affect its future - whether or not those politicians should let a thing like that affect them. It's RANK STUPIDTY!


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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It is still too  much of a stretch to compare the workings of Parliament with the ability of the Brexit party to hold a meeting at BP. We are all hypocrites to a degree - you presumably are quite happy for the Labour party to hold any meetings where they like whilst denying Brexit supporters the same privilege.


Of course it's not too much of a stretch. It's directly comparable.

And if you read my posts on the subject this week (including today) you'd have noticed that I have consistently said the club should not allow bookings from any political party, especially during an election campaign. But then you just have one line you trot out consistently with no regard to whatever anyone says.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
November 15, 2019, 10:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Marinerz93


Don't let the cry babies get to you, you don't even need to reply to the millennial's who say ok boomer to you, You get in your expensive car and go back to your big house and you enjoy your nice life, whilst they sit their in their self loathing crying how life is unfair into their pumpkin latte.


Grow up Boomer!

(And I speak as a Baby Boomer)


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
November 15, 2019, 10:28pm Report to Moderator
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Thank you - much appreciated. Certain things seem to trigger an avalanche of confected outrage none more so than Nigel Farage with all the usual mudslinging that goes with it.
[/b]

Alas, the mere mention of Farage is too much of a trigger.

Even I am bored with it now so will make this my last post on the matter!


It's not confected sunbeam.



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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Croxton
November 15, 2019, 10:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Vance Warner
Disgusted about the whole episode and what has happened to the club and the shirt I love. You can say all you want about the Brexit Party and tell me I'm over reacting but the bottom line is I won't be attending BP again this season. That is why this should never have been allowed to happen.


With respect, you are overreacting. This is likely to be yet another clusterfack decision by an inept backroom staff looking to max out business revenue. But....... if indeed the request to hire the premises was signed off at Board level, then they should explain themselves. Why were issues of bias, fan reaction, access to the club shirt etc not foreseen? Does nothing penetrate the BP bubble? Keep out of Politics. We are not FGR, Celtic or Rangers.
I will be going to support the team, especially the younger emerging talent, who have nothing to do with this furore. If the team rally to  Limbrick and Moore I will book my hotel in Carlisle, climb Blencathra then see us do battle against another managerless club.

Meanwhile, in the absence of clarification from the club, it would be nice to read some emollient words from the Trust to reaffirm the apolitical stance of our fan base.
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ska face
November 15, 2019, 10:38pm Report to Moderator

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Good of marinerz93 to chime in. I did wonder how long it’d take the antisemitic, “great replacement” theoretic, tinfoil-hat wing of the forum to get involved. Truly a mind completely addled with far-right propaganda.
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Eastendmariner
November 15, 2019, 10:54pm Report to Moderator
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who on earth let that scumbag in, this low life is a two faced liar spouting bile for political gain  I'm disgusted to be honest


Mariner Trust Life Member  

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Blundell Park a Training ground for bum ref's
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from sam gy
If people can’t get their head around why it is a bad move for a football club at the heart of local community to hire out their facilities to a divisive political party and let them use the clubs name to promote their agenda/campaign, then I despair.

The mammoth thread on here and the discussions on social media show that this was clearly a stupid move on the clubs part. Online/social media doesn’t account for everyone I know, but it’s a pretty big snapshot and a good indication of opinion.

It’s not about free speech, it’s not about silencing any political party and it’s followers. It was just a flipping stupid move. This was clearly not ‘just business’ for some function room.


For felicitations sake sunshine where have you been the last 20 years or so. All political parties are devisive. Do you not remember millions marching against the Iraq war but that girl private Blair (and his puppy Campbell) ignored them.

Have you not seen those Labour voters being asked about Corbyn and some saying they would rather vote Consevative, the LibDems saying they will ignore 17.4 million people in a democratic vote if they (in their dreams) become the Government and the Conservatives not knowing which way to face.

All politicians are flipping liars and only say what they want you to hear.  
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November 15, 2019, 11:22pm Report to Moderator
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HERTGTFC

Totally agree


Are we really that hard up    £££.


Mariner Trust Life Member  

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TAGG
November 15, 2019, 11:27pm Report to Moderator

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FFS
flipping moaning fornicators
intercourse off you bunch of liberal left wing im offended by any old excrement tossers.
Whats this Football against Facism??
Hitler was a fascist this bloke is just a clown.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Limerick Mariner
November 16, 2019, 12:19am Report to Moderator
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Vote for Melanie Onn and keep these pr!cks and their Eton bullshitting buddy out of Grimsby and Westminster. Brexit would have been done and dusted long ago if the Maybot had listened to Labour MPs instead of trying and failing to keep the ERG on board.

Whatever happens on 12th December we'll be back in the EU or at least the EEA in 10 years or so, because it's what our youth want, the country will just be hundreds of £ billions worse off.

Those shirts should be burnt...  
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Rik e B
November 16, 2019, 12:29am Report to Moderator

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I've just seen this but can't understand why Brexit or the Brexit Party is fascist or racist!

And again I haven't read this thread but had no problem with a political party hiring McMenemy's, but the shirt thing seems a bit of a gaffe considering there are many and varied political beliefs amongst so supporters. Grimsby and Cleethorpes voted by one of the largest margins in the country to leave but despite being a proud Brexiteers myself, the club should have remained neutral politically.

We go to football to all come together and forget about the world for a couple of hours. The likes of Kingston and others bore me senseless whining on about Brexit but when it comes to GTFC we largely in agreement.

Not like the bat excrement crazy Liberal extremists to ott scream hysterical over the slightest thing that doesn't fit their world view though 🙄
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KingstonMariner
November 16, 2019, 12:32am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from TAGG
FFS
Fukin moaning fornicators
intercourse off you bunch of liberal left wing im offended by any old excrement tossers.
Whats this Football against Facism??
Hitler was a fascist this bloke is just a clown.


Do I detect a hint offence being taken? 😆


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
November 16, 2019, 12:47am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Limerick Mariner
Vote for Melanie Onn and keep these pr!cks and their Eton bullshitting buddy out of Grimsby and Westminster. Brexit would have been done and dusted long ago if the Maybot had listened to Labour MPs instead of trying and failing to keep the ERG on board.

Whatever happens on 12th December we'll be back in the EU or at least the EEA in 10 years or so, because it's what our youth want, the country will just be hundreds of £ billions worse off.

Those shirts should be burnt...  


I think you’re right about May. Any sensible person with an understanding of negotiation would have made sure she had all the key stakeholders aligned before going in to bat. Especially as this is such a long term issue it should transcend the normal electoral cycle. Instead she decided she knew best. Reminds me of my ex-wife 😆

Better to have people on the inside of the tent pissing out than on the outside pissing in.


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I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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MarinerWY
November 16, 2019, 12:59am Report to Moderator

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I'm not going to BP again this season. Been going since I was 2 (albeit not of my own accord!). flipping disgrace
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Limerick Mariner
November 16, 2019, 1:28am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


I think you’re right about May. Any sensible person with an understanding of negotiation would have made sure she had all the key stakeholders aligned before going in to bat. Especially as this is such a long term issue it should transcend the normal electoral cycle. Instead she decided she knew best. Reminds me of my ex-wife 😆

Better to have people on the inside of the tent pissing out than on the outside pissing in.


IMHO there is no good Brexit. But I would have accepted the type of Brexit that Melanie wanted. That can only be acheived now through a Labour government (very likely a minority one) and a leave vote in a second referendum. An unfettered Tory majority will bring a disastrous hard Brexit - possibly ending up as no-deal in a years time, The fanatics have taken over. Even my MP, Alan Duncan, a one nation Tory, but complete loyalist, is not standing again - he knows the right wing nutters are taking over...

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Vance Warner
November 16, 2019, 8:32am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Croxton


With respect, you are overreacting. This is likely to be yet another clusterfack decision by an inept backroom staff looking to max out business revenue. But....... if indeed the request to hire the premises was signed off at Board level, then they should explain themselves. Why were issues of bias, fan reaction, access to the club shirt etc not foreseen? Does nothing penetrate the BP bubble? Keep out of Politics. We are not FGR, Celtic or Rangers.
I will be going to support the team, especially the younger emerging talent, who have nothing to do with this furore. If the team rally to  Limbrick and Moore I will book my hotel in Carlisle, climb Blencathra then see us do battle against another managerless club.

Meanwhile, in the absence of clarification from the club, it would be nice to read some emollient words from the Trust to reaffirm the apolitical stance of our fan base.


With respect unless you know how strongly I feel about it and the reasons for that you can't say I'm over-reacting. Agree with everything else you say and Blencathra followed by Carlise sounds great. I'm planning to be there myself and will continue to get to away games when I can but won't set foot in BP until there's significant change at the top.
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Croxton
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Quoted from Vance Warner


With respect unless you know how strongly I feel about it and the reasons for that you can't say I'm over-reacting. Agree with everything else you say and Blencathra followed by Carlise sounds great. I'm planning to be there myself and will continue to get to away games when I can but won't set foot in BP until there's significant change at the top.


We must all take stock and follow our consciences. I am sure you have quite personal reasons for your decision.

Absorbing the impact of 'shirtgate' and Jolley's sacking will take time and both are shrouded in the fog of suspicion and dubious circumstances. The downbeat atmosphere at recent games, low crowds, torrid tactics and rancid results have made me question whether to attend as many away fixtures. I erased Cambridge and Northampton from the calendar but kept Carlisle for personal reasons.
More of us, I am sure, will default to going on a game by game basis as more 'facts' emerge. Meanwhile, the tumble weed gathers.
BTW Vance, I won't be tackling Sharp Edge again. Too old for scary routes in Winter!
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SomeSanity
November 16, 2019, 12:45pm Report to Moderator
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Not only is this a PR disaster for our football club. It is a PR disaster for our sponsor too. All it takes is one person to tweet the picture of the Farage shirt and refuse to buy Young’s products because of their perceived backing of him and this spreads as is the nature of Twitter and social media as a whole.

As I said previously, as a brand you do not touch religion or politics. It’s marketing suicide.

Well done GTFC, yet again you throw the club in the gutter, when will you employ staff with any working experience beyond that flipping office?

I have worked in brand relations so know what I’m talking about.
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Quoted from SomeSanity
Not only is this a PR disaster for our football club. What is a PR disaster for our sponsor too. All it takes is one person to tweet the picture of the Farage shirt and refuse to buy Young’s products because of their perceived backing of him and this spreads as is the nature of Twitter and social media as a whole.

As I said previously, as a brand you do not touch religion or politics. It’s marketing suicide.

Well done GTFC, yet again you throw the club in the gutter, when will you employ staff with any working experience beyond that flipping office?

I have worked in brand relations so know what I’m talking about.


Good point.

Something else occurred - who point the names on the shirts - was that done in the club shop?

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Vance Warner
November 16, 2019, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Marinerz93


Islam is an ideology, there is no specific race of people associated with Islam, Jews however have been documented as a race of people going back to the time of Abraham

Since Jews have mostly “married in” for several thousand years, there are certain features that are distinctly common among Jews—as there are among Inuits, Icelanders, Amish, the Basque people and others. On the other hand, since there is room for conversion, those features are not ubiquitous within the group.

So to hate Islam the ideology isn't being racist but to hate Jews is, hope that has cleared up.

Most Muslims in the UK are mostly African, Asian or Arab with some converting, so Islam is made up of many races just like Christianity. When has there ever been a claim against any Muslim when they say death to all non believers that they are being racist towards Christians. Yet the left will cry racist when people have said they don't want any more mosques being built.

Another thing to clear up Islamaphobia isn't racist. A phobia is an irrational fear of something that’s unlikely to cause harm. The word itself comes from the Greek word phobos, which means fear or horror. People who have issues with Islam are not made up from irrational fear's but on observations from Islams interactions in the middle east and it's influence outside of the middle east. Not all terrorists are Islamic but most terrorist acts carried out are, so how is the fear of Islam irrational if you are a Kurd or minority Christian living in an Islamic country.

arachnophobia, fear of spiders.
claustrophobia, fear of confined or crowded spaces
Nosocomephobia     Fear of hospitals

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/498027/jewish/Are-Jews-a-Race.htm


Oh dear. Where to even start? No matter how you phrase it discriminating against a huge group of people is unacceptable quite simply because it involves being a d1ck to other human beings. As for suggesting it's rational to fear nearly two billion Muslims because of a tiny minority of extremists just wow.
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from Vance Warner


Oh dear. Where to even start? No matter how you phrase it discriminating against a huge group of people is unacceptable quite simply because it involves being a d1ck to other human beings. As for suggesting it's rational to fear nearly two billion Muslims because of a tiny minority of extremists just wow.


Not racism though is it.

If people don't want to see millions more migrants coming into the country putting huge pressure on the NHS, schooling and housing then they should have the right to say so in a democratic country without the name calling.
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Chrisblor
November 16, 2019, 6:34pm Report to Moderator

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The NHS is under pressure because the Tories have cut funding per person towards it. It is not under pressure because of immigration. Brexit will not help the NHS because according to the government's own report "the share of (healthcare) expenditure estimated to be on EEA migrants is much less than their share of the healthcare workforce so that they contribute more to the supply of healthcare than the demand." (source p85)

Please stop peddling falsehoods.


gary jones
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Rik e B
November 16, 2019, 7:10pm Report to Moderator

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I'm not even gonna bother getting into yet another remainer/Brexiteer, left/right argument.

BTW, there's plenty of left wing Brexiteers, the Brexit Party has MP's from all across the political spectrum - even so far as ex far left Communists!

Back to the case in point, from what I gather 1. The club don't vet who books at McMenemy's and 2. Grimsby's Brexit Party MP had the shirts made and presented them himself -they were not made and presented on behalf of the Club or by a representative of it.

Perhaps the Club should have caught wind of the event and had words that the Club is and shall always be politically neutral and shouldn't be banded as supportive or tagged in any way.

The Brexit Party MP should apologise, yes the Club weren't on the ball as to any potential for upset bug it wasn't them doing the deed.

Like I said before if Lib Dems, Labour (like they did at Blackpool FCs executive suite the day before) the Greens or whoever wanted to hire the function suite I'd have no problem with that so long as the Club weren't there waving clubs saying we back such and such.

Perhaps with paying back Fenty's loans we desperate for any and all business we can get?
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Rik e B
November 16, 2019, 7:28pm Report to Moderator

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I'm sure the labour party weren't daft enough to hold up Blackpool FC shirts with their names on at their executive suite, they probably wise enough from years of campaigning experience not the stir the pot in such a way and/or Blackpool were on the ball enough to make it clear that there was to be no reference to them or connection made.

Probably Brexit Party unprofessional in their infancy and/or our club not on the ball enough to make it clear not to 'tar' them.

Doesn't surprise me that our Club failed to put in checks and measures, but I thought Blackpool were pretty disastrously run also. Probably Labour being professional.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/a.....r-election-education

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edi.....urd-puppet-hhxxn2fmp

Plenty of commenting on political charades but nothing on Blackpool Fc being dragged into things...
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from Chrisblor
The NHS is under pressure because the Tories have cut funding per person towards it. It is not under pressure because of immigration. Brexit will not help the NHS because according to the government's own report "the share of (healthcare) expenditure estimated to be on EEA migrants is much less than their share of the healthcare workforce so that they contribute more to the supply of healthcare than the demand." (source p85)

Please stop peddling falsehoods.


The vast majority of EU migrants don't work in the NHS, and I didn't see your comment on housing and schooling.
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Malta_Mariner_90
November 16, 2019, 9:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Marinerz93


I Not all terrorists are Islamic but most terrorist acts carried out are, so how is the fear of Islam irrational if you are a Kurd or minority Christian living in an Islamic country.



The majority of Kurds are.....wait for it.....Muslim....

Oh and Mods why is this thread still in the "Football" section of the forum, with the likes of the above posters post?  
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Rodley Mariner
November 16, 2019, 10:07pm Report to Moderator
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What's your source for 25% of Muslims being extremist? Is it as objective and credible that other website you're linking to?
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sam gy
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Quoted from Rik e B


Perhaps the Club should have caught wind of the event and had words that the Club is and shall always be politically neutral and shouldn't be banded as supportive or tagged in any way.

The Brexit Party MP should apologise, yes the Club weren't on the ball as to any potential for upset bug it wasn't them doing the deed.


There’s no chance in hell that the club didn’t know the Brexit Party had booked McMenemys.

Also, it was announced in the press at least a week before the event. It was met with lots of criticism, and I know plenty of people who wrote to the club voicing their concerns. The club have not written back to any of them, they let it go ahead, and now we are where we are.

The club are totally complicit in all of this.


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Yoda
November 17, 2019, 12:57am Report to Moderator
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Oh stop flapping over nothing you snowflakes.
A legitimate political party rented a room in a football ground end of.

And if you think Corbyn is going to be prime minister you need your head looking at.
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 5:12am Report to Moderator

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“Let’s say that...” doing a lot of work there.

You are a deeply troubled individual and almost certainly on a watch list of some description. Seek help.
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Stadium
November 17, 2019, 10:10am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face
“Let’s say that...” doing a lot of work there.

You are a deeply troubled individual and almost certainly on a watch list of some description. Seek help.


Nicely summed up.
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rancido
November 17, 2019, 12:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chrisblor
The NHS is under pressure because the Tories have cut funding per person towards it. It is not under pressure because of immigration. Brexit will not help the NHS because according to the government's own report "the share of (healthcare) expenditure estimated to be on EEA migrants is much less than their share of the healthcare workforce so that they contribute more to the supply of healthcare than the demand." (source p85)

Please stop peddling falsehoods.


So the huge influx of EU nationals over the last 15 years, especially from Eastern Europe, has not put the NHS under any kind of pressure due to the increased number of people using a facility that was designed for a smaller population?


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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Marinerz93
November 17, 2019, 12:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face
“Let’s say that...” doing a lot of work there.

You are a deeply troubled individual and almost certainly on a watch list of some description. Seek help.


I was asked for evidence to back up what I was saying, sorry for being informed unlike some of the apologists on here. As for a watch list, GCHQ, we are all on a watch list. I've not posted anything that would jeopardise the security of this country or it's inhabitants, however some of the apologists on here may be on that watch list as sympathisers.

When ever HM Forces deploy to any country you get intelligence briefs on that country, every country I've been to, I've sat in briefings that can last hours, briefed from intelligence reports from countries like Cyprus (briefed on the issues with the coup in 1974 and there after), Italy (briefed on local mafia and other gangs), Turkey (briefed on the PKK and the Kurdish issue) and the Afganistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman (briefed on Islamic groups and some of the history of those countries). Troubled no, well informed yes. You don't just get an intelligence briefing but a history briefing too, like the time I went to Afganistan you learn that the British were told they could have safe passage to India when we were forced out in 1842 but they were attacked and massacred along the route so only a few made it out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_retreat_from_Kabul

I'd rather be troubled than ignorant or a gaslighter narcissist like you.



Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 12:37pm Report to Moderator

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It wasn’t long back you were spouting the same conspiracy theories as the terrorist who murdered 50 people in New Zealand. Log off InfoWars.
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Marinerz93
November 17, 2019, 12:43pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face
It wasn’t long back you were spouting the same conspiracy theories as the terrorist who murdered 50 people in New Zealand. Log off InfoWars.


Back with more gaslighter narcissism  


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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GrimRob
November 17, 2019, 12:54pm Report to Moderator

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This has got so off topic its non-football now


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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MarinerWY
November 17, 2019, 1:44pm Report to Moderator

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Why has this moved to non-football? The reason it's caused such offence is that it is about representation of our club, and views on  the mixing of political ideologies and football.

It is as directly related to football as discussions around a renovated stand, matchday transport or an interview with a shareholder.
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grimsby pete
November 17, 2019, 2:48pm Report to Moderator

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How can people say the influx of EU citizens does not have an effect on the NHS,

There are over 10,000 living in the Boston area with very little added to the size of the hospital or schools.

At Thetford just up the road from me there are over 10,000 living there and they do not have a hospital so the one in Bury St Edmunds has to take the extra work load.


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 3:19pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from grimsby pete
How can people say the influx of EU citizens does not have an effect on the NHS,

There are over 10,000 living in the Boston area with very little added to the size of the hospital or schools.

At Thetford just up the road from me there are over 10,000 living there and they do not have a hospital so the one in Bury St Edmunds has to take the extra work load.


But it’s well documented that EU migrants are net contributors to the economy - so they produce more money than they cost. They pay their taxes, just like you, so the question needs to be asked - where’s the money going?

How much money do they make for big business in factories, or delivering parcels, or picking fruit on massive farms? Someone’s making a profit from their labour and that money isn’t making its way into the infrastructure required to support the population.

It’s being creamed off the top, in tax evasion and tax breaks for big corporations. Migrants create wealth for people up the chain, that’s where it’s going missing.
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Marinerz93
November 17, 2019, 3:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from MarinerWY
Why has this moved to non-football? The reason it's caused such offence is that it is about representation of our club, and views on  the mixing of political ideologies and football.

It is as directly related to football as discussions around a renovated stand, matchday transport or an interview with a shareholder.


Thread was hijacked by the far left claiming farage is a racist and a facist.

How is Farage racist when he wants to trade with the world.

How is Farage a facist when he wants to break free from the EU which is facist.

Fascism stands for a centralized government headed by a dictator., that's is the EU in a nutshell.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2019, 4:38pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rancido


So the huge influx of EU nationals over the last 15 years, especially from Eastern Europe, has not put the NHS under any kind of pressure due to the increased number of people using a facility that was designed for a smaller population?


Such a simple truth that you point out, and also Pete's on the same topic just does not seem to resonate with people who refuse to believe it.

Even if the immigrants produce a net benefit to the economy, what good has it done us? On a hamster wheel of greater and greater immigration with a fractionally higher GDP, to be shared between many millions more of the population.

Added to that the increases needed in housing, schools, NHS provision, infrastructure and in some cases increased welfare benefits.

Some towns have been completely transformed and the indigenous population had no say in whatsoever.

Nobody is objecting to controlled immigration with numbers that we can assimilate, but the current level is just unsustainable and ridiculous.
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 5:54pm Report to Moderator

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Where migrants contribute more to the economy than they cost, this money should be going into providing and improving the infrastructure for a larger population. To say people have no say is completely wrong - by law they have a say every 5 years but the country has consistently chosen to hand that surplus economic benefit straight over to people who don’t need it in tax breaks for the wealthy. Don’t blame migrants for the fact that the country has decided, again and again, to give billionaires tax breaks rather than improve life for the general population.

Besides, walk into any GP surgery or hospital waiting room and you’ll be hard pressed to find a Polish plumber or Lithuanian strawberry picker, but you’ll see plenty of pensioners, urine cans and overweight people.

Take some responsibility. Migrants aren’t the cause of all your woes.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2019, 6:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face
Where migrants contribute more to the economy than they cost, this money should be going into providing and improving the infrastructure for a larger population. To say people have no say is completely wrong - by law they have a say every 5 years but the country has consistently chosen to hand that surplus economic benefit straight over to people who don’t need it in tax breaks for the wealthy. Don’t blame migrants for the fact that the country has decided, again and again, to give billionaires tax breaks rather than improve life for the general population.

Besides, walk into any GP surgery or hospital waiting room and you’ll be hard pressed to find a Polish plumber or Lithuanian strawberry picker, but you’ll see plenty of pensioners, urine cans and overweight people.

Take some responsibility. Migrants aren’t the cause of all your woes.


Nobody is blaming migrants. Its all in your head. We are putting forward an argument that they are nowhere near the benefit you think.
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 6:13pm Report to Moderator

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Not much of an argument is it? Migrants create a load of wealth that WE p1ss away, then blame migrants for it?
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2019, 6:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face
Not much of an argument is it? Migrants create a load of wealth that WE p1ss away, then blame migrants for it?


I gave a reasonable argument above, but you don't want to know. That is your prerogative.

The only thing I might ask someone like yourself is "Is there ANY limit to immigration in your eyes, and at what level do you think it might increase problems for the whole population in terms of housing, infrastructure, NHS provision, road congestion, school places?
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 7:14pm Report to Moderator

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Yeah no criminals, no oligarchs, no human rights abusers, no tax dodgers, no arms traders and no child traffickers.

Unfortunately as this reads like an invitation list for a Conservative Donors evening, I doubt I’ll get my wish anytime soon.
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chaos33
November 17, 2019, 8:22pm Report to Moderator
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Absolutely bang on correct Ska.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Chrisblor
November 17, 2019, 8:47pm Report to Moderator

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Nobody is blaming migrants. Its all in your head. We are putting forward an argument that they are nowhere near the benefit you think.


You're ignoring all the actual hard economic evidence to the contrary. I think i'll take the word of academics and economists over your gut feelings.


gary jones
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2019, 8:55pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chrisblor


You're ignoring all the actual hard economic evidence to the contrary. I think i'll take the word of academics and economists over your gut feelings.


Of course you would. We all know that. I would rather take a more pragmatic view, based on real peoples views.

Have you any input on how many immigrants you would like to flood the UK, or would you rather hope that there would be no negative impact on housing, infrastructure, schools hospitals and roads? Just for a laugh, give us your best guess at an upper limit you would like to arrive without it having a neegative impact on all of us. The hard economic evidence you talk about is an increase of GDP at the margins, which means the square root of not a lot when there are millions more people in the country, all needing state services.
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Rodley Mariner
November 17, 2019, 9:06pm Report to Moderator
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Yeah you can prove anything with facts and experts.
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Chrisblor
November 17, 2019, 9:11pm Report to Moderator

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Of course you would. We all know that. I would rather take a more pragmatic view, based on real peoples views.


Never seen someone revelling this much over their own ignorance before. Imagine if scientists and engineers relied on feelings instead of evidence? We'd all still be stuck in the stone age.

Regarding immigration: setting arbitrary caps on the level of acceptable immigration is stupid and economically damaging. Our economy is reliant on immigrants and as you've been constantly told they contribute more in taxes and economic activity than they cost in terms of healthcare and schooling. Any issues related to funding and lack of capacity in schooling, healthcare and housing are caused by Government policies and spending decisions as ska face has clearly explained in earlier posts in this thread.

Right now British citizens who earn less than £18.6k aren't allowed to bring their spouses to live in the UK with them. If they happen to have kids and they earn less than £22.4k then they can't get a visa for them either. We're currently splitting up families because people like you blame immigrants for problems caused by the government. You should be ashamed.


gary jones
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lew chaterleys lover
November 17, 2019, 9:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chrisblor


Never seen someone revelling this much over their own ignorance before. Imagine if scientists and engineers relied on feelings instead of evidence? We'd all still be stuck in the stone age.

Regarding immigration: setting arbitrary caps on the level of acceptable immigration is stupid and economically damaging. Our economy is reliant on immigrants and as you've been constantly told they contribute more in taxes and economic activity than they cost in terms of healthcare and schooling. Any issues related to funding and lack of capacity in schooling, healthcare and housing are caused by the Government policies and spending decisions as ska face has clearly explained in earlier posts in this thread.

Right now British citizens who earn less than £18.6k aren't allowed to bring their spouses to live in the UK with them. If they happen to have kids and they earn less than £22.4k then they can't get a visa for them either. We're currently splitting up families because people like you blame immigrants for problems caused by the government. You should be ashamed.


Well funnily enough I have never seen someone so puffed up with their own self importance before, so lets call it quits.

You can throw all the expert calculations you like at me, and I will counter with the obvious and unmistakable conclusions that mass uncontrolled immigration is not good for the county on a number of levels. Even on the economic one, which you seem to exclusively focus on, millions of immigrants producing a slightly higher GDP spread ever more thinly is of little value.

Towns and cities have been changed beyond recognition due to mass uncontrolled immigration. GP's are overstretched, housing is scarce, school places over subscribed, wages subdued for the lower paid and our infrastructure  struggling to cope.

You blame the government, probably because the Conservatives are in power, but any government would struggle to improve services when there are millions more accessing them.

You don't care for us Brexiteers, which is fair enough. You hate the Tories, which is fair enough. What you cannot seem to understand, or want to understand is that people have different view to yours. My view is equally as important as yours. The Brexit voter, who sees what is happening in his neighborhood, is of equal value to your vote. That is democracy - all votes are equal.

PS. Even taking your calculations into account, give me an estimate of how many immigrants you would be happy to see come to the UK in the next 10 years?
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golfer
November 17, 2019, 9:59pm Report to Moderator
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You can't reason with them-seem brainwashed
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chaos33
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This subject surely necessitates a watch of this:



"You should do what you love while you can"
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Chrisblor
November 17, 2019, 10:46pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from golfer
You can't reason with them-seem brainwashed


Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.

The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.


gary jones
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LH
November 17, 2019, 11:43pm Report to Moderator

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‘Real people’ are flipping morons.
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ska face
November 17, 2019, 11:48pm Report to Moderator

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. My view is equally as important as yours.


And your life is equally as important as a migrants.

Of great importance to you and your family, but of absolutely no significance whatsoever to the ruling classes. You think those at the top of the Brexit Party give a single solitary sheeite if you drop dead waiting for an ambulance tomorrow? Nope.

But keep on lining their pockets. They must be absolutely p1ssing themselves at having serfs like you doing their bidding.
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golfer
November 18, 2019, 8:25am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chrisblor


Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.

The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.


I didn't realise that ALL the immigrants were going to be removed-I'm sorry-must get my facts right before I comment
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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 10:36am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chrisblor


Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.

The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.


I think your reasoning is gradually unraveling.

There is a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that would think no immigration at all is what is required.

What we are arguing for is reasonable numbers, with the infrastructure, housing, schools, hospitals etc to accommodate them. The small increase in GDP attributed to immigration is swallowed up and more by having to provide extra services. This is one reason why Labour are so low in the polls; like you they cannot grasp the simple concept of allowing mass uncontrolled immigration is having a detrimental effect on communities becasue the services have not kept pace with immigration levels; yet all you do is argue for more immigration, and castigate the Tory government for not spending more on services to keep pace with more immigration to allow the cycle to continue.

I smile when you mention "ideological" reasons in respect of the Tory party, whilst you yourself remain steadfastly neutral..?!

Can I ask again (mainly for any posters who might be thinking of voting for Labour) - how many immigrants would you like to come to the UK in uncontrolled numbers? Another 5 million? 10 million? More than that?
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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 10:38am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face


And your life is equally as important as a migrants.

Of great importance to you and your family, but of absolutely no significance whatsoever to the ruling classes. You think those at the top of the Brexit Party give a single solitary sheeite if you drop dead waiting for an ambulance tomorrow? Nope.

But keep on lining their pockets. They must be absolutely p1ssing themselves at having serfs like you doing their bidding.


I have never given a penny piece to the Brexit party, or any party come to that. What gave you that idea? I am arguing for the principle.
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ska face
November 18, 2019, 10:39am Report to Moderator

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Are you seriously of the opinion that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
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Chrisblor
November 18, 2019, 10:48am Report to Moderator

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I think your reasoning is gradually unraveling.

There is a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that would think no immigration at all is what is required.

What we are arguing for is reasonable numbers, with the infrastructure, housing, schools, hospitals etc to accommodate them. The small increase in GDP attributed to immigration is swallowed up and more by having to provide extra services. This is one reason why Labour are so low in the polls; like you they cannot grasp the simple concept of allowing mass uncontrolled immigration is having a detrimental effect on communities becasue the services have not kept pace with immigration levels; yet all you do is argue for more immigration, and castigate the Tory government for not spending more on services to keep pace with more immigration to allow the cycle to continue.

I smile when you mention "ideological" reasons in respect of the Tory party, whilst you yourself remain steadfastly neutral..?!

Can I ask again (mainly for any posters who might be thinking of voting for Labour) - how many immigrants would you like to come to the UK in uncontrolled numbers? Another 5 million? 10 million? More than that?


No it isn't, you're fundamentally wrong on this point and it undermines your entire argument. Non-EU immigration is heavily controlled and I know this because I work with immigrants for a living. Have you heard of the Health Immigration Surcharge? Do you know how much UK Visas & Immigration charge in non refundable visa application fees? Do you know about salary and wealth requirements for different types of visas? Because if you had the first idea about this stuff you'd realise that immigration into the UK is miles away from being uncontrolled. It's a flipping expensive nightmare for most people trying to do anything beyond visiting the UK for short periods of time (and if you're from a country where the typical residents are a tinge too brown then it's even more of an uphill battle to get through our borders).

On the ideological aspect, I suggest you read up on the amount of private healthcare companies who donate to Conservative MPs, consider what those politicians are doing in terms of defunding the NHS and start joining up the dots between those two things and the increasing nature of privatisation of healthcare provision in this country. If you're fine with private companies running healthcare services for profit then fine ok, but you need to realise that the profit they make (or corners they cut to increase profits) could actually be spent on treating patients instead of lining their shareholders pockets.


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rancido
November 18, 2019, 12:36pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Chrisblor


Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.

The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.


But you assume that people who want immigration controlled are against all immigration. Of course we need skilled people and we should recruit from overseas but there has to be some kind of control. I have holidayed in Bulgaria several times over the last 20 years and stay in package holiday hotels. The minimum wage in Bulgaria for 2019 is less than £4 /hour ( at current exchange rates ). You don't need to be an expert in finance and economics to realise that a hotel worker in Bulgaria can double their wages by doing the same job in the UK. Of course  our cost of living is higher but an immigrant hotel worker from Bulgaria can see that if a UK worker can live on our minimum wage then so can they. If the EU was a level playing field with the same taxation levels, welfare benefits and minimum wage applying to all member states then that would be fine and free movement of labour would not be a problem. But the way it stands now there will always be a large movement of people from the poorer countries to the wealthier ones. This not only causes a labour shortage in the poorer countries , especially skilled workers, but an increased excess in the labour force for the wealthier ones. I would imagine that there are a considerably higher number of Eastern Europeans working in the UK than there are UK workers in Eastern Europe and this imbalance will manifest itself in a lot of problems in the years to come both in the UK and the poorer EU countries.


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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 1:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Chrisblor


No it isn't, you're fundamentally wrong on this point and it undermines your entire argument. Non-EU immigration is heavily controlled and I know this because I work with immigrants for a living. Have you heard of the Health Immigration Surcharge? Do you know how much UK Visas & Immigration charge in non refundable visa application fees? Do you know about salary and wealth requirements for different types of visas? Because if you had the first idea about this stuff you'd realise that immigration into the UK is miles away from being uncontrolled. It's a flipping expensive nightmare for most people trying to do anything beyond visiting the UK for short periods of time (and if you're from a country where the typical residents are a tinge too brown then it's even more of an uphill battle to get through our borders).

On the ideological aspect, I suggest you read up on the amount of private healthcare companies who donate to Conservative MPs, consider what those politicians are doing in terms of defunding the NHS and start joining up the dots between those two things and the increasing nature of privatisation of healthcare provision in this country. If you're fine with private companies running healthcare services for profit then fine ok, but you need to realise that the profit they make (or corners they cut to increase profits) could actually be spent on treating patients instead of lining their shareholders pockets.


I see you are trying to muddy the waters to talk about the controls on non EU countries regards immigration when the vast majority of our immigration over the last decade has come from being a member of the EU.

Just so that we are clear (especially to labour voters) how much more uncontrolled immigration from the EU would you like over say 5 years? Is it in the millions, perhaps the same as a medium sized town over several years, or is the truth you don't really care how many come in regardless of the consequences?
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ska face
November 18, 2019, 1:19pm Report to Moderator

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I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
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grimsby pete
November 18, 2019, 1:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face


But it’s well documented that EU migrants are net contributors to the economy - so they produce more money than they cost. They pay their taxes, just like you, so the question needs to be asked - where’s the money going?

How much money do they make for big business in factories, or delivering parcels, or picking fruit on massive farms? Someone’s making a profit from their labour and that money isn’t making its way into the infrastructure required to support the population.

It’s being creamed off the top, in tax evasion and tax breaks for big corporations. Migrants create wealth for people up the chain, that’s where it’s going missing.


I agree to a certain point in what you are saying but there is a big difference,

I am 71 and am still paying tax which I started paying when I left school at 15,

My dad paid tax all his life the same as his dad my grandad,

So we have put money into the system for hundreds of years,

EU people come in without paying anything in and they expect schooling and healthcare straight away.

Solution + the EU country they come from should fund them for say 10 years then at least the said people have paid into our pot.



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ska face
November 18, 2019, 1:40pm Report to Moderator

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Children don’t pay tax, should we just leave them to it?

It’s always the same problem - people punching down because they’re afraid to punch up. You KNOW successive govts have taken the p1ss out of you for decades, so why not try and stop them?
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from ska face
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?


Not controlled enough to allow millions to come in though is it?

Perhaps you could answer my question I have asked your pro-immigration colleague 3 times? What level of immigration would you like to see from the EU in future years? I am asking mainly for labour voters.
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grimsby pete
November 18, 2019, 1:49pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face
Children don’t pay tax, should we just leave them to it?

It’s always the same problem - people punching down because they’re afraid to punch up. You KNOW successive govts have taken the p1ss out of you for decades, so why not try and stop them?


How can we do that mate ?


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As the Tories have found out for the last three successive Govts (2010, 2015, 2017), setting arbitrary targets for migration is pointless as you end up in a position where you just start deporting people for being black, as the Windrush generation found out.

You have got zero idea about the capacity of the country to deal with unspecified migration figures - you’re soiling yourself now about housing when twice as much land is used for golf courses in the U.K. than housing.

The target should be to tackle the people literally laughing at you as they take your money, but you appear to be too cowardly or too much of a bully to do so.
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ska face
November 18, 2019, 1:50pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from grimsby pete


How can we do that mate ?


There’s one party currently proposing to redistribute wealth to the people who create it and rely on it, away from those who hoard it and deny the country the chance to develop in line with other advanced countries.

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Quoted from ska face
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?


Well after reading reports of boats and dinghys washed up on beaches along the south coast, intercepted in the Channel and escorted to our shores, container lorries crammed with the living and dead found in the country on a regular basis, holiday makers finding immigrants tumbling out of their cars and motor homes on arrival back in the UK, then yes, I would hazard a guess that it's not very well controlled.
Well I would if I didn't mind being labelled a raving Nazi /Fascist /Right wing Gammon.
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Chrisblor
November 18, 2019, 2:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from rancido


But you assume that people who want immigration controlled are against all immigration. Of course we need skilled people and we should recruit from overseas but there has to be some kind of control. I have holidayed in Bulgaria several times over the last 20 years and stay in package holiday hotels. The minimum wage in Bulgaria for 2019 is less than £4 /hour ( at current exchange rates ). You don't need to be an expert in finance and economics to realise that a hotel worker in Bulgaria can double their wages by doing the same job in the UK. Of course  our cost of living is higher but an immigrant hotel worker from Bulgaria can see that if a UK worker can live on our minimum wage then so can they. If the EU was a level playing field with the same taxation levels, welfare benefits and minimum wage applying to all member states then that would be fine and free movement of labour would not be a problem. But the way it stands now there will always be a large movement of people from the poorer countries to the wealthier ones. This not only causes a labour shortage in the poorer countries , especially skilled workers, but an increased excess in the labour force for the wealthier ones. I would imagine that there are a considerably higher number of Eastern Europeans working in the UK than there are UK workers in Eastern Europe and this imbalance will manifest itself in a lot of problems in the years to come both in the UK and the poorer EU countries.


If the UK was such an attractive destination for Bulgarians then significantly more than 3,324 of them would be emigrating here each year (on average based on immigration estimates between 2001 and 2015). There's 7 million people living in Bulgaria - 0.047% of the entire population of Bulgaria move to the UK each year - a hilariously small number. Obviously we have a stronger economy than Bulgaria and a higher minimum wage, but most Bulgarians can't speak English and have family and cultural ties that outweigh the economic benefit they'd get from moving here to work. The idea that we're somehow flooded by EU immigrants with which we can't possibly cope with cos they're draining all our resources is complete and utter balderdash.


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Quoted from ska face


There’s one party currently proposing to redistribute wealth to the people who create it and rely on it, away from those who hoard it and deny the country the chance to develop in line with other advanced countries.



Yes but you said governments over the years, if Labour get in wont they be the government ?

I have lived under a few Labour governments and to be honest they are all the same the working man is no better off  whoever wins the election.


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Quoted from grimsby pete


Yes but you said governments over the years, if Labour get in wont they be the government ?

I have lived under a few Labour governments and to be honest they are all the same the working man is no better off  whoever wins the election.


There’s a reason why Rupert Murdoch backed Tony Blair and why he’s so strongly opposed to Corbyn. It’s not because he doesn’t like vegetarians, it’s because Corbyn’s Labour are the complete opposite of the war mongers and speculators that have come before them.
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Maringer
November 18, 2019, 3:46pm Report to Moderator
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I see you are trying to muddy the waters to talk about the controls on non EU countries regards immigration when the vast majority of our immigration over the last decade has come from being a member of the EU.



No it hasn't:

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Non-EU migration which we have complete control over has always been higher than from EU countries, generally much higher.

What is most noticeable about the referendum vote is that the areas with the highest proportion of leave voters are also those with some of the lowest proportions of actual immigrants. It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of it, hence the banal scare stories beloved by the most fervent Brexiteers.
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Quoted from GYinScuntland


Well after reading reports of boats and dinghys washed up on beaches along the south coast, intercepted in the Channel and escorted to our shores, container lorries crammed with the living and dead found in the country on a regular basis, holiday makers finding immigrants tumbling out of their cars and motor homes on arrival back in the UK, then yes, I would hazard a guess that it's not very well controlled.
Well I would if I didn't mind being labelled a raving Nazi /Fascist /Right wing Gammon.


If immigration was uncontrolled, then why would people be attempting to enter the country illegally? People from outside of the EU, naturally.

Please make your mind up. Is immigration controlled or uncontrolled?
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Quoted from Chrisblor


If the UK was such an attractive destination for Bulgarians then significantly more than 3,324 of them would be emigrating here each year (on average based on immigration estimates between 2001 and 2015). There's 7 million people living in Bulgaria - 0.047% of the entire population of Bulgaria move to the UK each year - a hilariously small number. Obviously we have a stronger economy than Bulgaria and a higher minimum wage, but most Bulgarians can't speak English and have family and cultural ties that outweigh the economic benefit they'd get from moving here to work. The idea that we're somehow flooded by EU immigrants with which we can't possibly cope with cos they're draining all our resources is complete and utter balderdash.


I only used Bulgaria as an example because I have visited there more times than any other EU country in the last 10 years. How about immigrants from Poland, Romania , Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary? Why do so many of them come here if their economies are thriving ? It can't be for the weather or political freedom. Do more of them speak English than say Germans or French? You say the fact that we are flooded with EU immigrants who are draining our resources is utter balderdash but how many EU nationals from the countries I quoted are there and what plans were put in place to accommodate such a large influx of unforeseen immigrants?


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Why can’t you grasp this simple point - EU migrants contribute, on average, almost £3k per head MORE to the economy than they COST the economy. They are net CONTRIBUTORS.

So how are THEY draining resources?

This has got to be the 7th or 8th time I’ve seen this mentioned on this thread alone. Is there something you don’t understand about that?
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rancido
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Quoted from Maringer


No it hasn't:

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Non-EU migration which we have complete control over has always been higher than from EU countries, generally much higher.

What is most noticeable about the referendum vote is that the areas with the highest proportion of leave voters are also those with some of the lowest proportions of actual immigrants. It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of it, hence the banal scare stories beloved by the most fervent Brexiteers.


What about Boston then or is that an anomaly?


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Quoted from rancido


I only used Bulgaria as an example because I have visited there more times than any other EU country in the last 10 years. How about immigrants from Poland, Romania , Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary? Why do so many of them come here if their economies are thriving ? It can't be for the weather or political freedom. Do more of them speak English than say Germans or French? You say the fact that we are flooded with EU immigrants who are draining our resources is utter balderdash but how many EU nationals from the countries I quoted are there and what plans were put in place to accommodate such a large influx of unforeseen immigrants?

I refer you to this excellent reply:

Quoted from Maringer


No it hasn't:

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Non-EU migration which we have complete control over has always been higher than from EU countries, generally much higher.

What is most noticeable about the referendum vote is that the areas with the highest proportion of leave voters are also those with some of the lowest proportions of actual immigrants. It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of it, hence the banal scare stories beloved by the most fervent Brexiteers.


The only thing i'd add to the above is that international students are still counted as non-EU immigrants in the statistics (of which there were estimated to be 217,000 arriving to the UK in 2018). The vast majority of these students leave the UK at the end of their course, so really shouldn't be treated as permanently settled immigrants who according to a load of posters here apparently deprive native Britons of employment opportunities.


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lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 4:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from ska face
Why can’t you grasp this simple point - EU migrants contribute, on average, almost £3k per head MORE to the economy than they COST the economy. They are net CONTRIBUTORS.

So how are THEY draining resources?

This has got to be the 7th or 8th time I’ve seen this mentioned on this thread alone. Is there something you don’t understand about that?


Thats odd. I read a report that said the benefit of net migration was less than 1% of GDP on the economy. (You will have to take my word for that) and when you take into account the pressure on schools hospitals roads infrastructure and housing all it does is make a slightly larger pot accessible by millions more people.

It doesn't matter what we say really, you will never change your mind and I wont change mine. We will have to let the electorate decide.
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One thing I would like to add to this debate is my personal stance on the whole immigration subject. I an neither a xenophobe or racist. However I do believe that any country has a sovereign right to control who is allowed into that country either as a permanent or temporary resident.


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Thats odd. I read a report that said the benefit of net migration was less than 1% of GDP on the economy. (You will have to take my word for that) and when you take into account the pressure on schools hospitals roads infrastructure and housing all it does is make a slightly larger pot accessible by millions more people.

It doesn't matter what we say really, you will never change your mind and I wont change mine. We will have to let the electorate decide.


Do you not find your wilful ignorance embarrassing?

I’m bored to tears with you, but I beg you - read this article, it sums up the last few pages of this thread perfectly.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/migration-funding-distribution/

You don’t have to have some big public conversion to anarchosyndicalism or get a job as a case worker supporting asylum seekers, but at least do yourself the favour of not spending the next 4 weeks in abject ignorance.
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