F*cking snake oil salesman taking the p1ss out of the club. Shameful. Still it's revenue for the club so no problem there then, eh?
No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
It’s absolutely appalling. Letting them use the room is one thing, printing shirts with their names on is effectively endorsing a blatantly racist party. Aside from the fans, I would expect thee are a few players in the club who aren’t happy about this.
Im absolutely disgusted. As is my old man. A letter of complaint will be sent to the club. Ive seen many downs supporting this club, but the sight of that Right wing bigoted piece of filth holding the club shirt with his name printed makes me sick to the stomach. Oh but we do our PR on the pitch. The club has made its bed. Can lie in it now. Ashamed to be a fan tonight
Is this still non-football? This is f**king disgraceful. f**k you Fenty. Thoroughly ashamed to be a town fan.
Here we go again. Would you be ashamed if that was Jeremy Corbyn standing there with a shirt that said ONN for Grimsby? If not, then I would so lets call it quits.
Im absolutely disgusted. As is my old man. A letter of complaint will be sent to the club. Ive seen many downs supporting this club, but the sight of that Right wing bigoted piece of filth holding the club shirt with his name printed makes me sick to the stomach. Oh but we do our PR on the pitch. The club has made its bed. Can lie in it now. Ashamed to be a fan tonight
It’s absolutely appalling. Letting them use the room is one thing, printing shirts with their names on is effectively endorsing a blatantly racist party. Aside from the fans, I would expect thee are a few players in the club who aren’t happy about this.
Here we go again. Would you be ashamed if that was Jeremy Corbyn standing there with a shirt that said ONN for Grimsby? If not, then I would so lets call it quits.
The irony being that many on here would be absolutely spitting feathers if Jeremy Corbyn was in BP holding a Town shirt with his name printed on it.
Allowing the Brexit Party to use the room is one thing, I appreciate the club needs revenue and you can let anyone use the room without it being an endorsement. Printing the name of such a deplorable and divisive figure on the back of a club shirt, effectively endorsing him, is stupid in the extreme and is a new low in the club's PR. The club should stay politically neutral, this isn't doing so.
Every commercial meeting at a football club has the obligatory shirt with the name on photo opp. The worlds gone bloody mad.
Good god man, it is NIGEL FARAGE holding the shirt. This isnt a commercial meeting. Its a political organisation. The man is a racist, like it or not. Once again the club is at the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons
The irony being that many on here would be absolutely spitting feathers if Jeremy Corbyn was in BP holding a Town shirt with his name printed on it.
Allowing the Brexit Party to use the room is one thing, I appreciate the club needs revenue and you can let anyone use the room without it being an endorsement. Printing the name of such a deplorable and divisive figure on the back of a club shirt, effectively endorsing him, is stupid in the extreme and is a new low in the club's PR. The club should stay politically neutral, this isn't doing so.
Completely over the top. It is a photo opp not an endorsement of any kind, just the same as if Corbyn used the room and had a shirt with his name on.
Good god man, it is NIGEL FARAGE holding the shirt. This isnt a commercial meeting. Its a political organisation. The man is a racist, like it or not. Once again the club is at the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons
I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.
Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?
I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.
Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?
You’re absolutely clueless. maybe if you contact Farage on his way out of town he’ll give you his shirt?
Have to say it doesn't look brilliant, especially at a club that has had problems in the past with episodes of racism. There are many examples of racists supporting or being members of the Brexit party, and in fact the founder of the party was forced to resign because of her islamaphobic views, whilst 1 of their regional organisers had migrated from the BNP. I'm sure maringer and others will have plenty of other examples.
You’re absolutely clueless. maybe if you contact Farage on his way out of town he’ll give you his shirt?
No I am not. I am swimming against the tide because I believe in free speech, and do not follow the current trends like a sheep on social media.
I don't particularly hold a candle for Farage but I like to see fair play. Like it or not he is a leader of a party in this election and should be given the same courtesies.
Have to say it doesn't look brilliant, especially at a club that has had problems in the past with episodes of racism. There are many examples of racists supporting or being members of the Brexit party, and in fact the founder of the party was forced to resign because of her islamaphobic views, whilst 1 of their regional organisers had migrated from the BNP. I'm sure maringer and others will have plenty of other examples.
There's lots of examples. Sensible people don't need to post endless links to prove points.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.
Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?
Yeah it was Labour that have campaigned in the past in front of posters entitled "Breaking point" with a picture of a long line of people, none of whom were Caucasian. Jesus wept, are you being willfully stupid or are you just thick as shit?
Yeah it was Labour that have campaigned in the past in front of posters entitled "Breaking point" with a picture of a long line of people, none of whom were Caucasian. Jesus wept, are you being willfully stupid or as you just thick as shit?
Labour is mired in antisemitism. Doesn't racism against Jews count in your book?
Yeah it was Labour that have campaigned in the past in front of posters entitled "Breaking point" with a picture of a long line of people, none of whom were Caucasian. Jesus wept, are you being willfully stupid or as you just thick as shit?
He’s just thick as excrement mate (and likely to be racist himself).
It may be an appropriate time for the club to issue a statement dissasociating itself from the shirt incident, but given their past record for shooting themselves in the foot, they will probably announce that Farage is the new (far) right winger we have all been calling for.
Labour is mired in antisemitism. Doesn't racism against Jews count in your book?
And yet there is far more Islamophobia within the Tories than there is anti-semitism in Labour which nobody seems to be bothered about. Racism of any kind is abhorrent. Therefore, the club allowing a man who's campaigned using racism to have his name printed on the club shirt and taking photos with it is just plain stupid.
The man is a fascist. Football clubs should be politically neutral.
And yet there is far more Islamophobia within the Tories than there is anti-semitism in Labour which nobody seems to be bothered about. Racism of any kind is abhorrent. Therefore, the club allowing a man who's campaigned using racism to have his name printed on the club shirt and taking photos with it is just plain stupid.
The man is a fascist. Football clubs should be politically neutral.
With a Tory non chairman???? How would that work out? I am sure McMenemys is available for bookings for the Labour party, or any other party to show they are neutral.
No I am not. I am swimming against the tide because I believe in free speech, and do not follow the current trends like a sheep on social media.
I don't particularly hold a candle for Farage but I like to see fair play. Like it or not he is a leader of a party in this election and should be given the same courtesies.
Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton
I'll just sit back and observe & see how this goes from there....
You do realise this is a discussion forum with a few GTFC fans on a late Thursday night? Its not Question Time and it is not going to make headline news tomorrow.
Who gives a monkeys how "it goes."
Have a view, defend it; that is all there is to it.
Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton
If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.
You do realise this is a discussion forum with a few GTFC fans on a late Thursday night? Its not Question Time and it is not going to make headline news tomorrow.
Who gives a monkeys how "it goes."
Have a view, defend it; that is all there is to it.
From the person who quotes:
"Besides, I am right and you are wrong"
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton
If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Presumably, by your logic youd be fine with the leaders of the English Democrats or the BNP displaying their names on our shirt? Thank christ Tommy Robinson supports luton
If any party is registered with the electoral commision to take part in this election, then yes I think all should have the right of free speech.
But would you deny free speech, one of the fundamental cornerstones of the British political system?
You are missing the point. Yes the BNP are entitled to stand and Express their views (within the law obviously) but that doesn't mean you want your business/community/ club to be associated with them. It's just not a good look for a club that's keen to shake off it's old reputation and become an inclusive community club
You are missing the point. Yes the BNP are entitled to stand and Express their views (within the law obviously) but that doesn't mean you want your business/community/ club to be associated with them. It's just not a good look for a club that's keen to shake off it's old reputation and become an inclusive community club
Exactly. Which is the whole point of this discussion.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
You're conflating free speech with the right to say whatever you like without other people being offended by it. They're not the same thing. Farage is free to go around demonising migrants, but people are also free to take and air their offence with his views. Just log off, you're making yourself look like a mug.
To be fair I don't think it's wise for the club to rent out a room to any political party whether in an election or otherwise. The level of income gained from it would be insignificant enough to not make a valid commercial reason to do so. Poorly thought through and divisive decision by the club imho..
Though I seem to remember at the last general election that the gtfc hashtag got hijacked on Twitter by the Labour Party and its supporters as well as Corbyn flags at some of our games, but I guess it's ok for some to mix GTFC with politics as long as the colour is red. No better than the club in that regard..
You are missing the point. Yes the BNP are entitled to stand and Express their views (within the law obviously) but that doesn't mean you want your business/community/ club to be associated with them. It's just not a good look for a club that's keen to shake off it's old reputation and become an inclusive community club
I never said anything about the BNP, apart from their right to free speech. This argument is about the Brexit party, a party that won the last UK wide election and has been unfairly vilified on here as some extreme racist party who should not be allowed the same courtesy as the Labour party or any other party.
Given that the guy has an ego the size of the whole of Europe, it's possible he bought the shirt himself so he could hold it up in front of the media to show how the people of Grimsby loved him. If someone bought it for him then they wasted their money cos I bet within five minutes of him leaving BP it was in a council bin because he doesn't give a sh.t about this town or it's people. Self serving tw@t.
You're conflating free speech with the right to say whatever you like without other people being offended by it. They're not the same thing. Farage is free to go around demonising migrants, but people are also free to take and air their offence with his views. Just log off, you're making yourself look like a mug.
That is the second time this evening you have resorted to insults, and it is not a good look.
You are entitled to your view as I am entitled to mine.
Edit. To be fair I did call Stadium pathetic which was a mistake. Wrong would have been better.
I never said anything about the BNP, apart from their right to free speech. This argument is about the Brexit party, a party that won the last UK wide election and has been unfairly vilified on here as some extreme racist party who should not be allowed the same courtesy as the Labour party or any other party.
Chill out Nige.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
I never said anything about the BNP, apart from their right to free speech. This argument is about the Brexit party, a party that won the last UK wide election and has been unfairly vilified on here as some extreme racist party who should not be allowed the same courtesy as the Labour party or any other party.
But it was you that mixed up the 2 things by misunderstanding the point ,and thinking it was about denying free speech which was never the argument. I have already given you 2 easy examples of the sort of people who were part of the party and I'm pretty sure there will be many more examples, without even mentioning that infamous billboard
Ps I'd be equally as dismayed if it was Ken Livingstone or George Galloway pulling a similar stunt
But it was you that mixed up the 2 things by misunderstanding the point ,and thinking it was about denying free speech which was never the argument. I have already given you 2 easy examples of the sort of people who were part of the party and I'm pretty sure there will be many more examples, without even mentioning that infamous billboard
Ps I'd be equally as dismayed if it was Ken Livingstone or George Galloway pulling a similar stunt
There are dozens, perhaps hundreds of instances of members being called out and/or expelled from all political parties for unsavory views, but you choose to show two from the Brexit party to suit your narrative.
You mention Livingstone or Galloway, so you are really saying that you do not want anyone you don't agree with to hold a political meeting at BP, and, horror of horrors, hold up a Town shirt.
Gotta love politics on the Fishy. Bottom line is Farage is a disgusting neo liberal girl private. It’s ok to spout the stuff he spouts as long as it’s equally ok to call it out for exactly what it is. Racist, fascist & populist bile. If you fall for it you are probably pretty stupid or a racist yourself (the two are not mutually exclusive either).
Idiocy for the club to have a booking of this nature as you know the snake oil salesman will exploit it.
I’d rather the club was an apolitical entity as it would be selfish of me to want it to represent my views, although this is quite common on the continent, Roma or Lazio are examples of extremes. One thing is for sure though , we are so much better than flipping arseholes like Farage. I’m ashamed of my club for letting the fornicator cross the threshold.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Got to say these left wingers are looking more like the fascists nowadays than the actual supposed Fascists. What with all this censorship because they don't like other peoples views and such like.
Im town through and through, im also Brexit party voter because i like there views. im not a rascist at all. You will find also that the Brexit party is currently the most popular party by the last vote that took place i,e the European elections so it is fair point to say they are popular.
All those saying this is a disgrace need to lighten up a bit and stop being snowflakes getting offended by everything.
The Brexit party don’t have any views. They’ve never even released a manifesto. It’s a money making business venture for an egomaniac that exists only to con the gullible.
Quoted from John Fenty, April 2013
I deconstructed the flag to the point where it was safe and couldn’t be considered a danger
The disgrace is the club for allowing Farage to get a town shirt have it printed and slapping it all over social media. Whilst i despise Farage and his party, who imo are racist, its a free country and people can vote for who they like. Just feel the club have once again copulated up.
Got to say these left wingers are looking more like the fascists nowadays than the actual supposed Fascists. What with all this censorship because they don't like other peoples views and such like.
Im town through and through,
Quoted Text
im also Brexit party voter because i like there views. im not a rascist at all.
You will find also that the Brexit party is currently the most popular party by the last vote that took place i,e the European elections so it is fair point to say they are popular.
All those saying this is a disgrace need to lighten up a bit and stop being snowflakes getting offended by everything.
It’s just not possible for those 2 things to be mutually exclusive. The Brexit parties views ARE racist.
Good use of snowflake though. Maybe I’ll lighten up a bit when the country I was once proud of, thought was inclusive, tolerant and welcoming stops being dragged into the gutter by the likes of these grifters.
Got to say these left wingers are looking more like the fascists nowadays than the actual supposed Fascists. What with all this censorship because they don't like other peoples views and such like..
" is a form of far right authoritarian ultranationalism characterised by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and the economy " any party spring to mind ?
You will find also that the Brexit party is currently the most popular party by the last vote that took place i,e the European elections so it is fair point to say they are popular.
All those saying this is a disgrace need to lighten up a bit and stop being snowflakes getting offended by everything.
It’s just not possible for those 2 things to be mutually exclusive. The Brexit parties views ARE racist.
Good use of snowflake though. Maybe I’ll lighten up a bit when the country I was once proud of, thought was inclusive, tolerant and welcoming stops being dragged into the gutter by the likes of these grifters. [/quote]
Arent Labour also known as as Jew haters? just saying. it has been well reported as so. Im not Racist and i support the Brexit party. Im pretty sure the vast Majority of all parties are the same with a few racists chucked into the mix, i mean just look at David Lammy, proper anti white as it can get.
The biggest problem is tarring people with the same brush. very unfair.
Strange people say Farage is anti foreign really when his own wife is German. He is anti Euro not Europe. I think personally the guy is a plank but brings balance.
JF is a Tory. Farage is a Tory in disguise, but being outside of the mainstream Tory party, he can express the views that many Tories hold, but can't publicly voice. He is only contesting Labour held seats, which helps the Tories and divides the voters, because he is, you know, divisive. Why wouldn't JF allow this event?
I hate Farage and all he stands for and i have this morning become even more detached from the club i once loved.
The disgrace is the club for allowing Farage to get a town shirt have it printed and slapping it all over social media. Whilst i despise Farage and his party, who imo are racist, its a free country and people can vote for who they like. Just feel the club have once again copulated up.
I am not quite sure why you think you have all the answers. Why on earth should you be the judge of who can and cannot be presented with a Town shirt. Some people would be equally appalled if Jeremy Corbyn was presented with one. Live and let live.
Bandying about words like fascist and racist about people who do not share your views is ridiculous.
JF is a Tory. Farage is a Tory in disguise, but being outside of the mainstream Tory party, he can express the views that many Tories hold, but can't publicly voice. He is only contesting Labour held seats, which helps the Tories and divides the voters, because he is, you know, divisive. Why wouldn't JF allow this event?
I hate Farage and all he stands for and i have this morning become even more detached from the club i once loved.
Nail on the head. Exactly how I feel. The football is excrement, the atmosphere is at best dull and the club is run by people who allow a political stunt to occur with the country's most divisive political figure.
A football club should be a place where we leave our political views at the gate and all join together in supporting our home team. It does not matter if you are labour, conservative or god for bid Brexit Party. We are all Town fans and this sort of stunt just makes me think why should I give a fook anymore?
Anyone could see from a mile off that allowing the Brexit Party to hold an event at our football stadium was a terrible decision. Who could really be so naive as to think they wouldn’t use their choice of venue and leach on to the club for their own political gains??
A truly terrible decision by the club, whether they endorse it or not, they let it happen. End of.
And now what do we have? A divided fan base and personally speaking, a sick feeling in my stomach.
We already know the club doesn’t care much for its fans, but did they bother to think about how our playing staff and management team might think about all this? And how this might affect further recruitment? Might sound a bit OTT, but there’s no saying how some people might react to the picture.
I am not quite sure why you think you have all the answers. Why on earth should you be the judge of who can and cannot be presented with a Town shirt. Some people would be equally appalled if Jeremy Corbyn was presented with one. Live and let live.
Bandying about words like fascist and racist about people who do not share your views is ridiculous.
So how would you describe standing in front of a poster called "Breaking Point" which depicts a line of brown people if it isn't racism?
I am not quite sure why you think you have all the answers. Why on earth should you be the judge of who can and cannot be presented with a Town shirt. Some people would be equally appalled if Jeremy Corbyn was presented with one. Live and let live.
Bandying about words like fascist and racist about people who do not share your views is ridiculous.
Because, whether you like it or not, farage is a racist. Give your head a wobble for christ sake
JF is a Tory. Farage is a Tory in disguise, but being outside of the mainstream Tory party, he can express the views that many Tories hold, but can't publicly voice. He is only contesting Labour held seats, which helps the Tories and divides the voters, because he is, you know, divisive. Why wouldn't JF allow this event?
I hate Farage and all he stands for and i have this morning become even more detached from the club i once loved.
Hi ginny. Appreciate your feelings for the club, but can you please continue to post your views on the fishy. You haven’t done so very often lately and I for one miss your balanced and intelligent arguements.
" is a form of far right authoritarian ultranationalism characterised by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and the economy " any party spring to mind ?
That description sounds more like Communism to me, especially the regimes of Stallin, Chairman Mao etc.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Farage is the modern day Oswald Moseley, and the club have given him free rein to associate them with him. It's beyond stomach churning.
No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Because, whether you like it or not, farage is a racist. Give your head a wobble for christ sake
I do not agree that Farage is a racist. I don't believe Corbyn is a racist even though the party he leads is riddled with it. Calling people racist at every opportunity is silly.
Anyone could see from a mile off that allowing the Brexit Party to hold an event at our football stadium was a terrible decision. Who could really be so naive as to think they wouldn’t use their choice of venue and leach on to the club for their own political gains??
A truly terrible decision by the club, whether they endorse it or not, they let it happen. End of.
And now what do we have? A divided fan base and personally speaking, a sick feeling in my stomach.
We already know the club doesn’t care much for its fans, but did they bother to think about how our playing staff and management team might think about all this? And how this might affect further recruitment? Might sound a bit OTT, but there’s no saying how some people might react to the picture.
What about the Town fans who support the Brexit party? Don't they have a choice?
I do not agree that Farage is a racist. I don't believe Corbyn is a racist even though the party he leads is riddled with it. Calling people racist at every opportunity is silly.
If the Labour party is riddled with racists, what does that make the Tories?
Of course there will be some racists in a party with so many members. Just a reflection of society. However, the left-wing parties have a lot fewer racists in them than the right-wing parties. There was a survey the other year (possibly an Ashcroft poll?) which indicated this clearly. Don't have time to search for it now, however.
Of course there will be some racists in a party with so many members. Just a reflection of society. However, the left-wing parties have a lot fewer racists in them than the right-wing parties. There was a survey the other year (possibly an Ashcroft poll?) which indicated this clearly. Don't have time to search for it now, however.
I do not agree that Farage is a racist. I don't believe Corbyn is a racist even though the party he leads is riddled with it. Calling people racist at every opportunity is silly.
Ah the old anti-Semitism line which has surprisingly little evidence despite the fact they're "riddled" with it.
Hi ginny. Appreciate your feelings for the club, but can you please continue to post your views on the fishy. You haven’t done so very often lately and I for one miss your balanced and intelligent arguements.
Thanks for that but there's not really much to say that hasn't been said repeatedly for years. The football at BP is as dull as ever and i'm taking a break from it to do other stuff on a weekend that's more enjoyable and rewarding. I still read the fishy but don't feel i have much to contribute as i haven't seen a single game this season, which is the first time in 48 seasons that i have had a prolonged absence from the ground by choice. Sad thing is that i don't miss it at all.
Christ on a bike - even Jewish MP's have left to stand for other parties. Isn't it funny it is not racism as we know it when it affects your preferred party?
Fascism isn’t communism. That’s quite clear. Mao and Stalin also quite different. Please read a book.
Well if you read my post you will see that I was referring to the quoted description. Of course I know they are different but ultimately lead to similar situations when practiced in the examples I quoted.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
There are dozens, perhaps hundreds of instances of members being called out and/or expelled from all political parties for unsavory views, but you choose to show two from the Brexit party to suit your narrative.
You mention Livingstone or Galloway, so you are really saying that you do not want anyone you don't agree with to hold a political meeting at BP, and, horror of horrors, hold up a Town shirt.
once again you misrepresent what i said , either wilfully, naively or simply by an inability to read a post. i don't want any politician from the extremes to be associating themselves with my club, which as i said is trying manfully, to shed it's old poor image and become a modern, inclusive community club. i never even mentioned the fact about the facilities being used by Farage. Indeed i don't have a problem with the club hiring out it's facilities - they were caught between a rock and a hard place for 2 reasons a) imagine the furore that would've been caused by Brexit party supporters that the club was denying a legal political party the chance to hold a meeting, - denial of free speech etc. and b) the club could've become embroiled in a political row, given the party allegiance of our beloved supreme leader. can you imagine the headlines; 'Tory council leader bans Brexit Party from holding meeting' ?
please try to read the posts carefully before shooting from the hip, and i'd be grateful in future if you would refrain from misrepresenting my points. Thanks you
Christ on a bike - even Jewish MP's have left to stand for other parties. Isn't it funny it is not racism as we know it when it affects your preferred party?
When did I say it isn't racism? I have no doubts that there will be a small percentage of Labour Party members who are anti-semitic. Racism is deplorable in any shape or form. But your claims that the party is riddled with it just isn't backed up with evidence. There may be anti-zionist sentiments but that is not the same and anyone who thinks it is needs to educate themselves. Has the party done enough to sort out the minority of issues that are present? Probably not. But saying it's riddled with it just shows that you're easily led by the right wing, capitalist media that fear Corbyn.
There is far more evidence of racism from Tory members (Windrush scandal, hostile environment, rampant Islamophobia) and Farage (singing Hitler youth songs as a child, Breaking Point poster, anti-semitic views on national radio) but you'll let that slide cause it doesn't fit your narrative.
What about the Town fans who support the Brexit party? Don't they have a choice?
I think you're missing my point.
The club has managed to divide it’s fan base by allowing a political party to use their facilities and latch on to the club’s name for it’s own gain. Doesn’t matter where you stand politically, this was categorically a terrible decision by the club.
No one is saying you don’t get a say….you’re having it right now.
The club has managed to divide it’s fan base by allowing a political party to use their facilities and latch on to the club’s name for it’s own gain. Doesn’t matter where you stand politically, this was categorically a terrible decision by the club.
No one is saying you don’t get a say….you’re having it right now.
So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?
I would imagine all the posters giving it some about Farage holding a meeting at the club would come on here and say a lot about Boris or any other leader of a party if they held a meeting at our political free club.
Fenty has said we need to get more revenue into the club apart from a match day and when they do the Fishy goes banana's.
Don't blame the club for trying to get extra revenue .
As fans we have no say in who rents Blundell Park and that is correct otherwise it would never be hired out.
We all have views on what direction we want our country to go in and neither of the leavers or remainers are right or wrong its just their personal view, There is no need for all the name calling that some on here revert to when they are not getting the other person to change their mind.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Fenty has said we need to get more revenue into the club apart from a match day and when they do the Fishy goes banana's.
Don't blame the club for trying to get extra revenue .
As fans we have no say in who rents Blundell Park and that is correct otherwise it would never be hired out.
But it’s more than just ‘getting revenue in’ Pete.
It’s a feather in the cap for a political party, and a divisive one at that. They have milked the fact that they’ve rented the facilities completely and are using the club to promote themselves. It’s my personal opinion that a local, community football club should not be letting that happen.
It’s just another fantastic decision from the brains at BP with no thought about the long term impact. It’s clear the decision some FANS thought it was beyond the pale - the club can probably survive without £20 here and £18 there. What about the commercial side though? Do people think Young’s will be mega keen to see Farage wafting their logo? The club is supported by hundreds of small local business, they’d better hope those businesses are happy with this new association.
That’s an awful lot of flat caps and scratch cards to sell if some big sponsors pull out...
Just a question did the club give the said shirt to Farage or did he buy it himself and have his name put on when he visited the club earlier in the week in his Rolls ?
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
It’s just another fantastic decision from the brains at BP with no thought about the long term impact. It’s clear the decision some FANS thought it was beyond the pale - the club can probably survive without £20 here and £18 there. What about the commercial side though? Do people think Young’s will be mega keen to see Farage wafting their logo? The club is supported by hundreds of small local business, they’d better hope those businesses are happy with this new association.
That’s an awful lot of flat caps and scratch cards to sell if some big sponsors pull out...
Did you get banned from twitter for insulting some melts or have you given up on it entirely?
This is just another own goal by the club. The politics is utterly irrelevant. Unfortunately the OP set this thread off with a one-sided politically divisive rant instead of looking at what really matters and sadly others follow suit with nipple for jumble insults.
To allow one party leader, Attila The Hun or Chairman Mao or whoever it is, to use the club facilities is just incredibly naive at best and stupid at worst.These are politicians, they are expert in milking a situation for maximum effect. That is their day job.
It is hard to believe that Coun Fenty was not aware and gave his blessing. If not then he really is dafter than I thought and that takes some doing, but for certain someone's head should roll.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Just a question did the club give the said shirt to Farage or did he buy it himself and have his name put on when he visited the club earlier in the week in his Rolls ?
First of all I doubt very much that he bought it. He's a taker not a giver otherwise the hypocritical twit wouldn't be drawing his salary as a Euro MP
All he needs is a squad number on the shirt and judging by recent team selections Jolley would probably put him in the team next week
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
This is appalling, I hate Farage and everything he stands for, to see this man at our club is unforgivable. It will divide our support massively and is such a bad move. Shame on the people who let this happen.
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.
The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.
I for one am glad that I was child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.
This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !
PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !
So presumably you want a blanket ban of political parties holding meetings at BP?
Yep, during an election campaign at the very least. If the Brexit Party want to hold a rally at BP, why aren't they fielding a candidate in Cleethorpes? Wasn't there anywhere in Grimsby where it could have been held?
Would be interesting to see if any one of the other 92 clubs have hosted Farage and his hangers-on. I can't say his party members because, as noted before, the Brexit Party Ltd only has 3 members - well, directors. Lots of 'registered supporters', certainly, but no members with any voting rights or even rights for the hopefuls to be refunded the money they paid to be considered as candidates in the first place! And they call people who want us to remain in the UK antidemocratic...
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.
The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.
I for one am glad that I was child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.
This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !
PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !
well they obviously do, hence the thread and arguments
It is hard to believe that Coun Fenty was not aware and gave his blessing. If not then he really is dafter than I thought and that takes some doing, but for certain someone's head should roll.
It does reek of a Fentyism. Even if he's a Brexiteer himself (which seems quite possible), not understanding this would be so divisive and would alienate a substantial chunk of the fanbase is just stupidity.
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.
The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.
I for one am glad that I was child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.
This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !
PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !
IN MY DAY YOU HAD RESPEKT FOR YOUR ELDERS AND YOU WERKED HARD FOR UR MASTERS AND MEN WERE MEN AND WOMEN WERE WOMEN AND IF THEY WERNT IN THE KITCHEN WERE THEY BELOYNGD THEN ID STOP THERE POKIT MONEY.
IN MY DAY YOU HAD RESPEKT FOR YOUR ELDERS AND YOU WERKED HARD FOR UR MASTERS AND MEN WERE MEN AND WOMEN WERE WOMEN AND IF THEY WERNT IN THE KITCHEN WERE THEY BELOYNGD THEN ID STOP THERE POKIT MONEY.
Ok Boomer.
Very witty.
Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
" is a form of far right authoritarian ultranationalism characterised by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and the economy " any party spring to mind ?
Johnson’s Conservatives! Wanted to shut down Parliament because he didn’t want the other MPs to debate laws.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.
My use of Boomer refers to mentality rather than the era he was born in.
I would imagine all the posters giving it some about Farage holding a meeting at the club would come on here and say a lot about Boris or any other leader of a party if they held a meeting at our political free club.
Fenty has said we need to get more revenue into the club apart from a match day and when they do the Fishy goes banana's.
Don't blame the club for trying to get extra revenue .
As fans we have no say in who rents Blundell Park and that is correct otherwise it would never be hired out.
We all have views on what direction we want our country to go in and neither of the leavers or remainers are right or wrong its just their personal view, There is no need for all the name calling that some on here revert to when they are not getting the other person to change their mind.
I do blame the club Pete. Shouldn’t allow any political party to use the facilities. It is inevitably divisive. And from a purely commercial point of view it is shortsighted.
Add in the way the country has become so split down the middle and the tension, it is particularly important at this time for football clubs to avoid party politics.
Then you add in the whole inclusivity issue, and, like it or not Farage and the Brexit Party and UKIP are associated with racists and racist views. It is rank stupidity of the club to even go near it.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
This post must qualify as the most boring ever featured on a football forum. I for one am sick to death of every discussion that involves an ism ! Sexism, Racism Facism etc etc etc.
The younger generation today are obsessed with it, people are desperate to be offended about something or other during the course of their everyday lives.
I for one am glad that I was child of the seventies when you were told to treat others the way you would like to be treated yourself. A simple but effective rule that the majority of us adhered to.
This is a football forum and as such should be used for football related discussion. Football and politics to do not mix !
PS, If I have offended anyone.........................................tough excrement !
Matt, like you I was brought up on the do as you would be done by principle, and I still hold to that. That is why tackling sexism, racism, and any other form of identity bias is important.
Football and politics don’t mix? You should have said that before Farage had his rally at BP!
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Old mans just been at the ground, had words with Steve Wraith. Club saying they have done nothing wrong, didnt give the shirts they were bought then auctioned off.
Yep, during an election campaign at the very least. If the Brexit Party want to hold a rally at BP, why aren't they fielding a candidate in Cleethorpes? Wasn't there anywhere in Grimsby where it could have been held?
Would be interesting to see if any one of the other 92 clubs have hosted Farage and his hangers-on. I can't say his party members because, as noted before, the Brexit Party Ltd only has 3 members - well, directors. Lots of 'registered supporters', certainly, but no members with any voting rights or even rights for the hopefuls to be refunded the money they paid to be considered as candidates in the first place! And they call people who want us to remain in the UK antidemocratic...
Oh come on - pull the other one!
Had Corbyn held a rally at BP during this election you would have been first in the queue to get the best seat in the house! You would have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the Labour party being there.
You are now trying to tell the Brexit party where they can and cannot hold election meetings. What is up wtih you? You must surely see it is undemocratic and plain wrong. You have let your apparent disgust of the Brexit party cloud your judgement.
Old mans just been at the ground, had words with Steve Wraith. Club saying they have done nothing wrong, didnt give the shirts they were bought then auctioned off.
Of course they have done nothing wrong, they cannot be swayed by you and your old man just because you don't like the Brexit party!
My use of Boomer refers to mentality rather than the era he was born in.
Oh "mentally"? I see. You mean you are using it in your capacity as a "snowflake"?
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Old mans just been at the ground, had words with Steve Wraith. Club saying they have done nothing wrong, didnt give the shirts they were bought then auctioned off.
Of course he said that! the guy is a useless Yes man.
Maybe in the coming weeks the Cons , Lab, Lib, and Green party will hire the venue seeing how much interest the Brexit party got from hiring it.
I hope that happens Pete, then we would have another load of hyperbolic nonsense from the other side.
Free speech for all I say.
Actually, aren't there discriminatory laws the club has to abide by? Imagine the stink if the Brexit party (or any other party) had tried to hire the venue and the club said no. That would make the front pages, and if it was illegal on the grounds of discrimination a court case.
Actually, aren't there discriminatory laws the club has to abide by? Imagine the stink if the Brexit party (or any other party) had tried to hire the venue and the club said no. That would make the front pages, and if it was illegal on the grounds of discrimination a court case.
That was becasue the opposition benches were determined to wreck the bill by tabling amendments which if passed would make it unrecognizable.
The government had its hands tied by the Benn act which was only allowed by the collusion of the speaker.
Oh! I thought it was an offence against free speech to want to ban the Brexit Party from holding a meeting at Blundell Park. But you don’t think it’s an offence against free speech to want to shut up the duly elected representatives of the people.
You my son are a bigger hypocrite than you accuse others of being!
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Anne Widdecombe, Brexit Party MEP, is openly and objectively homophobic. It’s not my opinion, it’s a matter of public record.
If you want to nail your colours to that mast, and with Claire Fox of the Brexit Party who defended Gary Glitter’s right to download child porn, that’s your call.
Oh! I thought it was an offence against free speech to want to ban the Brexit Party from holding a meeting at Blundell Park. But you don’t think it’s an offence against free speech to want to shut up the duly elected representatives of the people.
You my son are a bigger hypocrite than you accuse others of being!
I think you are getting beyond the realms of reality with that comparison. The government of the day conducts the business in the House as I am sure you know. The speaker pulled every trick in the book to stop the government conducting its business. There is no comparison to that and free speech.
Anne Widdecombe, Brexit Party MEP, is openly and objectively homophobic. It’s not my opinion, it’s a matter of public record.
If you want to nail your colours to that mast, and with Claire Fox of the Brexit Party who defended Gary Glitter’s right to download child porn, that’s your call.
And you don't think there are many similar examples in every other party lol?
I don't vote Brexit party, it is the principle of free speech and their right to say it I am defending.
There is no back track from me. I wont vote for the Brexit party becasue Martin Vickers is my MP and I will support him. You think you are trying to be oh so clever but it will never work with me.
I think you are getting beyond the realms of reality with that comparison. The government of the day conducts the business in the House as I am sure you know. The speaker pulled every trick in the book to stop the government conducting its business. There is no comparison to that and free speech.
Laws can only be passed by a majority of MPs. That’s part of the British constitution. If there hadn’t been a majority for it, the Benn Act would not have been passed. Simple!
You do not have to be in the government if the day to propose a bill.
The other simple fact is, Johnson did not have a majority for his bill without amendments.
I drew a logical comparison between your claim to support free speech in one case but deny it in another. You are a hypocrite. If you cannot see that you are also stupid.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Laws can only be passed by a majority of MPs. That’s part of the British constitution. If there hadn’t been a majority for it, the Benn Act would not have been passed. Simple!
You do not have to be in the government if the day to propose a bill.
The other simple fact is, Johnson did not have a majority for his bill without amendments.
I drew a logical comparison between your claim to support free speech in one case but deny it in another. You are a hypocrite. If you cannot see that you are also stupid.
It is still too much of a stretch to compare the workings of Parliament with the ability of the Brexit party to hold a meeting at BP. We are all hypocrites to a degree - you presumably are quite happy for the Labour party to hold any meetings where they like whilst denying Brexit supporters the same privilege.
There is no back track from me. I wont vote for the Brexit party becasue Martin Vickers is my MP and I will support him. You think you are trying to be oh so clever but it will never work with me.
We already knew someone saying something intelligent was going to go straight over your head.
There is no back track from me. I wont vote for the Brexit party becasue Martin Vickers is my MP and I will support him. You think you are trying to be oh so clever but it will never work with me.
Being clever will not work with you.
Well I think that’s quite clear! Have a lovely weekend
Had Corbyn held a rally at BP during this election you would have been first in the queue to get the best seat in the house! You would have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the Labour party being there.
You are now trying to tell the Brexit party where they can and cannot hold election meetings. What is up wtih you? You must surely see it is undemocratic and plain wrong. You have let your apparent disgust of the Brexit party cloud your judgement.
As I've never been a member of a political party and have never been to a political rally, you'd be wrong about that.
Also, please don't insinuate I'm a liar. When I say wouldn't agree with the club hosting any political rally, I meant what I said. The fakery is ridiculous - does anybody really think Farage gives one tiny toss about GTFC when he's holding up a shirt? It's a PR stunt offering free publicity.
I'd imagine Corbyn is nominally an Arsenal fan (as you'd expect from somebody who has lived in Islington for decades) but my guess is that he's really not that bothered about football. Having to attend matches at a weekend would get in the way of all sorts of protests and marches. Not a Cameron type who was so stupid, he forgot he should be pretending to support Villa instead of West Ham.
If a political party wants to hire a venue for a general meeting outside of an election campaign, it wouldn't be so bad, I suppose. However, this was nothing more than a PR stunt and the tacit implication is that GTFC (and by association, their fans) supports Farage and his dogwhistle brand of politics. That's what makes me feel sick.
I hope that happens Pete, then we would have another load of hyperbolic nonsense from the other side.
Free speech for all I say.
Actually, aren't there discriminatory laws the club has to abide by? Imagine the stink if the Brexit party (or any other party) had tried to hire the venue and the club said no. That would make the front pages, and if it was illegal on the grounds of discrimination a court case.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
As I've never been a member of a political party and have never been to a political rally, you'd be wrong about that.
Also, please don't insinuate I'm a liar. When I say wouldn't agree with the club hosting any political rally, I meant what I said. The fakery is ridiculous - does anybody really think Farage gives one tiny toss about GTFC when he's holding up a shirt? It's a PR stunt offering free publicity.
I'd imagine Corbyn is nominally an Arsenal fan (as you'd expect from somebody who has lived in Islington for decades) but my guess is that he's really not that bothered about football. Having to attend matches at a weekend would get in the way of all sorts of protests and marches. Not a Cameron type who was so stupid, he forgot he should be pretending to support Villa instead of West Ham.
If a political party wants to hire a venue for a general meeting outside of an election campaign, it wouldn't be so bad, I suppose. However, this was nothing more than a PR stunt and the tacit implication is that GTFC (and by association, their fans) supports Farage and his dogwhistle brand of politics. That's what makes me feel sick.
Nice try but it wont wash with me. You are a big Corbyn fan are you not? You would not have blinked an eyelid if the Labour party had hired that venue.
Nice try but it wont wash with me. You are a big Corbyn fan are you not? You would not have blinked an eyelid if the Labour party had hired that venue.
Second polite request. Stop calling me a liar. I wouldn't have said I don't think any political party should be holding rallies at BP if I didn't mean it.
Despite my support for the only major left-wing party in the UK these days, I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn who hasn't perhaps been the strongest of leaders and has definitely dithered too much at times. However, I can appreciate he has been on the back foot from day one after his unexpected victory in the leadership election. We've seen the Blairite rump of the party do absolutely everything they can to get rid of him including a couple of failed coups (even though his mandate from Labour members was huge), we've seen their friendly media launch attack after attack and, of course, the right-wing media are always going to be lying and obfuscating about anything that is said or done. It's the lies that irritate me most. The media pump out outright lies which intensify in the lead up to an election. Up until the 2015 election, I had a subscription to The Times because, though obviously right-leaning, their news reporting was generally relatively balanced (it was just half the columnists who were whack jobs). However, once the 2015 election campaign began, the paper was flooded with articles which were telling outright lies about Miliband, Labour policies and economics. I cancelled my subscription in disgust because I'm not paying for propaganda. I hate the fact that outright lies rather than intelligent policy based on proper is what is winning elections these days.
For all Corbyn's failings, I do recognise that he's an authentic politician which is more than can be said about those who stand against him - the Johnsons, Farages and Swinsons of this world. Does anybody seriously think Corbyn is in it for himself after being happy to sit on the backbenches for decades, spending his time working for his consituents and campaigning for human rights, anti-racism, peace, equality etc etc? It's clear that he wants to improve the lot of the poorest in society and the Labour Party is the only major political party with this clear aim.
The only involvement I've had with the party is I registered as a supporter back in 2015 to vote in the leadership election and I think it was 20 quid I donated at the time. I seem to recall I donated the same amount last election and will do the same again this time. I don't have the time or inclination to join the party itself though they are now more closely aligned with my politics.
Second polite request. Stop calling me a liar. I wouldn't have said I don't think any political party should be holding rallies at BP if I didn't mean it.
Despite my support for the only major left-wing party in the UK these days, I'm not a huge fan of Corbyn who hasn't perhaps been the strongest of leaders and has definitely dithered too much at times. However, I can appreciate he has been on the back foot from day one after his unexpected victory in the leadership election. We've seen the Blairite rump of the party do absolutely everything they can to get rid of him including a couple of failed coups (even though his mandate from Labour members was huge), we've seen their friendly media launch attack after attack and, of course, the right-wing media are always going to be lying and obfuscating about anything that is said or done. It's the lies that irritate me most. The media pump out outright lies which intensify in the lead up to an election. Up until the 2015 election, I had a subscription to The Times because, though obviously right-leaning, their news reporting was generally relatively balanced (it was just half the columnists who were whack jobs). However, once the 2015 election campaign began, the paper was flooded with articles which were telling outright lies about Miliband, Labour policies and economics. I cancelled my subscription in disgust because I'm not paying for propaganda. I hate the fact that outright lies rather than intelligent policy based on proper is what is winning elections these days.
For all Corbyn's failings, I do recognise that he's an authentic politician which is more than can be said about those who stand against him - the Johnsons, Farages and Swinsons of this world. Does anybody seriously think Corbyn is in it for himself after being happy to sit on the backbenches for decades, spending his time working for his consituents and campaigning for human rights, anti-racism, peace, equality etc etc? It's clear that he wants to improve the lot of the poorest in society and the Labour Party is the only major political party with this clear aim.
The only involvement I've had with the party is I registered as a supporter back in 2015 to vote in the leadership election and I think it was 20 quid I donated at the time. I seem to recall I donated the same amount last election and will do the same again this time. I don't have the time or inclination to join the party itself though they are now more closely aligned with my politics.
Apologies for any offence caused, I thought we were debating the hypocrisy of some people who would allow one party to hold a rally but not another. If you say you would ban all parties having a meeting during an election at BP then I believe you.
I don't think that applies to other people on here though, who would be quite happy to see a Labour party meeting at BP, but not so keen on others having the same privilege.Was it the Labour party who held a rally at Blackpool FC, I wonder if there was an outcry there about that?
Imagine the furore if the Brexit party had been denied hiring the facilities at BP because they were, err the Brexit party!
The media would have had a field day.
“Dear Mr Farage,
Thank you for your enquiry about using our function room to host a political meeting with your supporters. As a football club we try to remain politically neutral as we understand we have a wide range of political leanings from across the political spectrum amongst our fanbase. We do not wish to alienate any of our fans or be seen to be endorsing any political party.
It is therefore, with regret, that we have to reject your request to use our function room. However, we wish you the best of luck in finding another suitable venue nearby.
Apologies for any offence caused, I thought we were debating the hypocrisy of some people who would allow one party to hold a rally but not another. If you say you would ban all parties having a meeting during an election at BP then I believe you.
I don't think that applies to other people on here though, who would be quite happy to see a Labour party meeting at BP, but not so keen on others having the same privilege.Was it the Labour party who held a rally at Blackpool FC, I wonder if there was an outcry there about that?
And yet not a single person has said they would only ban one particular party. Your argument is based on your own assumption about what others have implied.
Thank you for your enquiry about using our function room to host a political meeting with your supporters. As a football club we try to remain politically neutral as we understand we have a wide range of political leanings from across the political spectrum amongst our fanbase. We do not wish to alienate any of our fans or be seen to be endorsing any political party.
It is therefore, with regret, that we have to reject your request to use our function room. However, we wish you the best of luck in finding another suitable venue nearby.
Yours sincerely Grimsby Town Football Club”
That was hard wasn’t it?
If Corbyn had booked the venue, there would not have been this disquiet. That is the point.
Jesus wept, you are seriously dim. Most people, myself included, have said explicitly that they wouldn’t want the club to host any party or to be seen to endorse them because clubs should remain politically neutral when there’s such a diverse range of beliefs and views across the fanbase. The fact people have said that but you keep making the same inane, unfounded arguments anyway says a lot more about you than it does about them.
I'd imagine Corbyn is nominally an Arsenal fan (as you'd expect from somebody who has lived in Islington for decades) but my guess is that he's really not that bothered about football. Having to attend matches at a weekend would get in the way of all sorts of protests and marches. Not a Cameron type who was so stupid, he forgot he should be pretending to support Villa instead of West Ham.
Comes across as a proper supporter in this piece on Labour's policies towards football club ownership and ticket pricing (copy German fan ownership model, increase the amount of TV money invested in grass-roots & lower league football, two fan directors on the board of every club etc) - https://www.theguardian.com/po.....ns-in-premier-league
I'm yet to hear any proposals from the Tories on football. I don't think anyone from across the entire political spectrum can suggest the current status quo, where the Premier League clubs rake in hundreds of millions each year while it becomes ever more expensive and difficult for lower league and grassroots football teams to stay afloat, can continue for much longer.
If Corbyn had booked the venue, there would not have been this disquiet. That is the point.
There absolutely would have been. There are plenty of gtfc supporters gleefully celebrating all the 'triggered snowflakes' who are upset about Farage turning up last night. You're telling me all of those lot would simply have gone "yeah right fair enough" if Jeremy Corbyn had turned up at Blundell Park and held a town shirt up? Give over.
It's so easy for all these posters to say the club shouldn't get involved in politics but I've lost count the number of times these same sanctimonious posters have alluded to the fact that JF is a Conservative Councillor - such irony!!
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
It's so easy for all these posters to say the club shouldn't get involved in politics but I've lost count the number of times these same sanctimonious posters have alluded to the fact that JF is a Conservative Councillor - such irony!!
Fenty has an endless list of faults, but one thing I can give him credit for is the fact he doesn't use the club as a vehicle for his own politics. He's not hosting Conservative party rallies in the ground and getting Martin Vickers to hold up a town shirt during an election campaign. So no, it isn't ironic, you're just drawing a baseless comparison.
Jesus wept, you are seriously dim. Most people, myself included, have said explicitly that they wouldn’t want the club to host any party or to be seen to endorse them because clubs should remain politically neutral when there’s such a diverse range of beliefs and views across the fanbase. The fact people have said that but you keep making the same inane, unfounded arguments anyway says a lot more about you than it does about them.
You are being wise after the event. There has been the faux outrage because it is the Brexit party, it is as simple as that.
Jesus wept, you are seriously dim. Most people, myself included, have said explicitly that they wouldn’t want the club to host any party or to be seen to endorse them because clubs should remain politically neutral when there’s such a diverse range of beliefs and views across the fanbase. The fact people have said that but you keep making the same inane, unfounded arguments anyway says a lot more about you than it does about them.
If you said that before Farage turned up then fair play to you.
Fenty has an endless list of faults, but one thing I can give him credit for is the fact he doesn't use the club as a vehicle for his own politics. He's not hosting Conservative party rallies in the ground and getting Martin Vickers to hold up a town shirt during an election campaign. So no, it isn't ironic, you're just drawing a baseless comparison.
Hireing the club facilities is business - pure and simple. If you are a committed vegan, are you going to make a big issue over the fact that the club serves meat products? The UK has a huge arms industry, would you complain that some of it's customers are not to your liking and jeopardise jobs, people's livelihoods, just to take the higher moral ground. Get real and realise this is the real world and not some Utopia dreamed up in a student common room.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Hireing the club facilities is business - pure and simple. If you are a committed vegan, are you going to make a big issue over the fact that the club serves meat products? The UK has a huge arms industry, would you complain that some of it's customers are not to your liking and jeopardise jobs, people's livelihoods, just to take the higher moral ground. Get real and realise this is the real world and not some Utopia dreamed up in a student common room.
I know we haven't been on the same side on other issues but I agree entirely with this and your other posts.
Looking back on the earlier pages of this thread, going by the upticks/downticks it is pretty much a score draw. It is a very divisive issue as we have seen.
I know we haven't been on the same side on other issues but I agree entirely with this and your other posts.
Looking back on the earlier pages of this thread, going by the upticks/downticks it is pretty much a score draw. It is a very divisive issue as we have seen.
Having just read through the entire eighteen pages I salute you (and no it's not a fascist one) for almost single-handedly arguing the case for the defence. Like you I find the trend nowadays to bandy about words like fascist and racist so casually objectionable and pathetic. People are perfectly entitled to dislike Farage, The Brexit Party and what they stand for, but to describe Farage as a fascist and even compare him to Moseley (as one poster did) is ridiculous.
Political views aside, this is just stupid by the club..
Be it by intention of not, they're now endorsing The Brexit Party after this photo. Did they really think that Chris Barker and Farage wanted names with their shirts on for when they play 5-a-side?
Having just read through the entire eighteen pages I salute you (and no it's not a fascist one) for almost single-handedly arguing the case for the defence. Like you I find the trend nowadays to bandy about words like fascist and racist so casually objectionable and pathetic. People are perfectly entitled to dislike Farage, The Brexit Party and what they stand for, but to describe Farage as a fascist and even compare him to Moseley (as one poster did) is ridiculous.
Thank you - much appreciated. Certain things seem to trigger an avalanche of confected outrage none more so than Nigel Farage with all the usual mudslinging that goes with it.
I have been trying to argue that unless a blanket ban was in force before this event on all political parties, he should be afforded the same courtesy as any other party leader. Grimsby did vote 71% for Brexit after all.
Alas, the mere mention of Farage is too much of a trigger.
Even I am bored with it now so will make this my last post on the matter!
Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.
Could you re-post this again...............in English ?
I know we haven't been on the same side on other issues but I agree entirely with this and your other posts.
Looking back on the earlier pages of this thread, going by the upticks/downticks it is pretty much a score draw. It is a very divisive issue as we have seen.
Thank you, everybody should agree to differ and respect anothers point of view. I voted for the Brexit Party in the EU elections but I am not a racist. I voted to leave the EU but I am not a racist. I want immigration controlled but I am not a racist. I condemn terrorism in the name of Islam but I am not an Islamaphobe. Sadly, too many people take one aspect of your opinions, generalise it and use it as a condemnation of your beliefs.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
IN MY DAY YOU HAD RESPEKT FOR YOUR ELDERS AND YOU WERKED HARD FOR UR MASTERS AND MEN WERE MEN AND WOMEN WERE WOMEN AND IF THEY WERNT IN THE KITCHEN WERE THEY BELOYNGD THEN ID STOP THERE POKIT MONEY.
Ok Boomer.
Sorry Ron, did not mean your post, it was this message presumably written in Urdu !
Just a point of fact - “boomers” were born before our present monarch came to the throne in 1952. It was called “the bulge” in those days because it was the rise in the birth rate after WW2 when those who had been fighting fascism came home. Therefore to call someone who was a child of the 70s a “boomer” is just lazy and plain wrong. They are more likely to be the children of “boomers”.
Don't let the cry babies get to you, you don't even need to reply to the millennial's who say ok boomer to you, You get in your expensive car and go back to your big house and you enjoy your nice life, whilst they sit their in their self loathing crying how life is unfair into their pumpkin latte.
Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.
Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
Don't let the cry babies get to you, you don't even need to reply to the millennial's who say ok boomer to you, You get in your expensive car and go back to your big house and you enjoy your nice life, whilst they sit their in their self loathing crying how life is unfair into their pumpkin latte.
Small car, small house . Very little gets to me these days. I like to see funnies but I do get cheesed by the inaccuracy of this imported from the US tee shirt slogan which just proves the point that those using it have little idea of fact or even reality. According to them they are of course the first ever generation to fight fascism!
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Small car, small house . Very little gets to me these days. I like to see funnies but I do get cheesed by the inaccuracy of this imported from the US tee shirt slogan which just proves the point that those using it have little idea of fact or even reality. According to them they are of course the first ever generation to fight fascism!
I know in the great Brexit thread you often get remoaners talking excrement and being annoying as intercourse towards people they don't agree with but they fail to understand crying and whinging won't accomplish anything, and no one gives a excrement they are offended.
Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.
Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
If people can’t get their head around why it is a bad move for a football club at the heart of local community to hire out their facilities to a divisive political party and let them use the clubs name to promote their agenda/campaign, then I despair.
The mammoth thread on here and the discussions on social media show that this was clearly a stupid move on the clubs part. Online/social media doesn’t account for everyone I know, but it’s a pretty big snapshot and a good indication of opinion.
It’s not about free speech, it’s not about silencing any political party and it’s followers. It was just a flipping stupid move. This was clearly not ‘just business’ for some function room.
If people can’t get their head around why it is a bad move for a football club at the heart of local community to hire out their facilities to a divisive political party and let them use the clubs name to promote their agenda/campaign, then I despair.
The mammoth thread on here and the discussions on social media show that this was clearly a stupid move on the clubs part. Online/social media doesn’t account for everyone I know, but it’s a pretty big snapshot and a good indication of opinion.
It's posters like you that make it more than it was and that is purely for business reasons. Are you implying that this was politically motivated and that those who control the running of the club are actually Brexit Party supporters? It’s not about free speech, it’s not about silencing any political party and it’s followers. It was just a flipping stupid move. This was clearly not ‘just business’ for some function room.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
There are two things in this world businesses should not involve themselves with. Religion and politics.
The problem is the people at this football club behind-the-scenes do not understand public relations, do not understand commercialism, do not understand business.
The sorry state of affairs is somebody allowed this to happen. Who? I understand John Fenty is Conservative.. and therefore will want to dilute the Labour vote but....
To sell our football club out to anothing political party is disgusting. The ineptitude of the people running this football club is embarrassing. For me, the blame lies with the same people who are high-fiving themselves for their “forwardthinking“ in booking the soccer express before the Chelsea tie was confirmed.
Disgusted about the whole episode and what has happened to the club and the shirt I love. You can say all you want about the Brexit Party and tell me I'm over reacting but the bottom line is I won't be attending BP again this season. That is why this should never have been allowed to happen.
Disgusted about the whole episode and what has happened to the club and the shirt I love. You can say all you want about the Brexit Party and tell me I'm over reacting but the bottom line is I won't be attending BP again this season. That is why this should never have been allowed to happen.
Agree absolutely will be posting my shirt back to GT FC in the morning, embarrassed to be associated with Grimsby in any way today
I think the Labour party have more trouble with racism than Nigel Farage. Most people (aside from your social media mates) will see it as a commercial decision to allow a mainstream political leader hold a meeting, with a photo opportunity thrown in.
Farage has been all over the media today, in Grimsby. Sky News came from Grimsby showing Farage holding a fish. Are you suggesting the whole of Grimsby endorses Farage 'cos he was holding a fish? Is Sky News to be damned forever for filming it?
Take a look at The Lobby investigation, available on YouTube, you can buy lies if you want to believe them, like pretending the Tories haven’t been in power for the last 9 years and they are not privatising the NHS by stealth( ask anyone who works in it). Like it’s not them who held the referendum, had a majority failed to pass a Brexit deal, had another election, paid the DUP over a billion pounds so they had a majority and still failed to deliver Brexit. Boris the clown even voted against a deal he had signed up to, in short the Tories failed to get it done , Boris is not dead in a ditch but as a serial liar no one expected it. We have had 9 years of Tories and they have failed in everything and this is the record we should vote on
It’s absolutely appalling. Letting them use the room is one thing, printing shirts with their names on is effectively endorsing a blatantly racist party. Aside from the fans, I would expect thee are a few players in the club who aren’t happy about this.
Can you explain your "blatantly racist" statement?
All I can say is that for a “community club” to allow any “political leader” such an opportunity to attach their narcissism to our beloved black and white stripes suggest John Fenty and his small minded cronies should eff off now!!!
No doubt I’ll be told to “shut up”.
Clubs a disgrace and out of control.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Hireing the club facilities is business - pure and simple. If you are a committed vegan, are you going to make a big issue over the fact that the club serves meat products? The UK has a huge arms industry, would you complain that some of it's customers are not to your liking and jeopardise jobs, people's livelihoods, just to take the higher moral ground. Get real and realise this is the real world and not some Utopia dreamed up in a student common room.
That's weak logic coming from you Rancido. There are plenty of people who object to the UK arms industry selling arms to dodgy foreign countries like Saudi Arabia. Committed vegans would never book a venue that had meat offerings. Whether you agree with them or not, what you said is illogical.
And from a business point of view having the Brexit booking is going to harm GTFC commercially. For a start it's alienated more fans than is worth it for a few hundred quid. It's not endeared itself to politicians, local or national, who will have a say on decisions that could affect its future - whether or not those politicians should let a thing like that affect them. It's RANK STUPIDTY!
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
It is still too much of a stretch to compare the workings of Parliament with the ability of the Brexit party to hold a meeting at BP. We are all hypocrites to a degree - you presumably are quite happy for the Labour party to hold any meetings where they like whilst denying Brexit supporters the same privilege.
Of course it's not too much of a stretch. It's directly comparable.
And if you read my posts on the subject this week (including today) you'd have noticed that I have consistently said the club should not allow bookings from any political party, especially during an election campaign. But then you just have one line you trot out consistently with no regard to whatever anyone says.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Don't let the cry babies get to you, you don't even need to reply to the millennial's who say ok boomer to you, You get in your expensive car and go back to your big house and you enjoy your nice life, whilst they sit their in their self loathing crying how life is unfair into their pumpkin latte.
Grow up Boomer!
(And I speak as a Baby Boomer)
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Thank you - much appreciated. Certain things seem to trigger an avalanche of confected outrage none more so than Nigel Farage with all the usual mudslinging that goes with it. [/b]
Alas, the mere mention of Farage is too much of a trigger.
Even I am bored with it now so will make this my last post on the matter!
It's not confected sunbeam.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Disgusted about the whole episode and what has happened to the club and the shirt I love. You can say all you want about the Brexit Party and tell me I'm over reacting but the bottom line is I won't be attending BP again this season. That is why this should never have been allowed to happen.
With respect, you are overreacting. This is likely to be yet another clusterfack decision by an inept backroom staff looking to max out business revenue. But....... if indeed the request to hire the premises was signed off at Board level, then they should explain themselves. Why were issues of bias, fan reaction, access to the club shirt etc not foreseen? Does nothing penetrate the BP bubble? Keep out of Politics. We are not FGR, Celtic or Rangers. I will be going to support the team, especially the younger emerging talent, who have nothing to do with this furore. If the team rally to Limbrick and Moore I will book my hotel in Carlisle, climb Blencathra then see us do battle against another managerless club.
Meanwhile, in the absence of clarification from the club, it would be nice to read some emollient words from the Trust to reaffirm the apolitical stance of our fan base.
Good of marinerz93 to chime in. I did wonder how long it’d take the antisemitic, “great replacement” theoretic, tinfoil-hat wing of the forum to get involved. Truly a mind completely addled with far-right propaganda.
If people can’t get their head around why it is a bad move for a football club at the heart of local community to hire out their facilities to a divisive political party and let them use the clubs name to promote their agenda/campaign, then I despair.
The mammoth thread on here and the discussions on social media show that this was clearly a stupid move on the clubs part. Online/social media doesn’t account for everyone I know, but it’s a pretty big snapshot and a good indication of opinion.
It’s not about free speech, it’s not about silencing any political party and it’s followers. It was just a flipping stupid move. This was clearly not ‘just business’ for some function room.
For felicitations sake sunshine where have you been the last 20 years or so. All political parties are devisive. Do you not remember millions marching against the Iraq war but that girl private Blair (and his puppy Campbell) ignored them.
Have you not seen those Labour voters being asked about Corbyn and some saying they would rather vote Consevative, the LibDems saying they will ignore 17.4 million people in a democratic vote if they (in their dreams) become the Government and the Conservatives not knowing which way to face.
All politicians are flipping liars and only say what they want you to hear.
FFS flipping moaning fornicators intercourse off you bunch of liberal left wing im offended by any old excrement tossers. Whats this Football against Facism?? Hitler was a fascist this bloke is just a clown.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Vote for Melanie Onn and keep these pr!cks and their Eton bullshitting buddy out of Grimsby and Westminster. Brexit would have been done and dusted long ago if the Maybot had listened to Labour MPs instead of trying and failing to keep the ERG on board.
Whatever happens on 12th December we'll be back in the EU or at least the EEA in 10 years or so, because it's what our youth want, the country will just be hundreds of £ billions worse off.
I've just seen this but can't understand why Brexit or the Brexit Party is fascist or racist!
And again I haven't read this thread but had no problem with a political party hiring McMenemy's, but the shirt thing seems a bit of a gaffe considering there are many and varied political beliefs amongst so supporters. Grimsby and Cleethorpes voted by one of the largest margins in the country to leave but despite being a proud Brexiteers myself, the club should have remained neutral politically.
We go to football to all come together and forget about the world for a couple of hours. The likes of Kingston and others bore me senseless whining on about Brexit but when it comes to GTFC we largely in agreement.
Not like the bat excrement crazy Liberal extremists to ott scream hysterical over the slightest thing that doesn't fit their world view though 🙄
FFS Fukin moaning fornicators intercourse off you bunch of liberal left wing im offended by any old excrement tossers. Whats this Football against Facism?? Hitler was a fascist this bloke is just a clown.
Do I detect a hint offence being taken? 😆
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Vote for Melanie Onn and keep these pr!cks and their Eton bullshitting buddy out of Grimsby and Westminster. Brexit would have been done and dusted long ago if the Maybot had listened to Labour MPs instead of trying and failing to keep the ERG on board.
Whatever happens on 12th December we'll be back in the EU or at least the EEA in 10 years or so, because it's what our youth want, the country will just be hundreds of £ billions worse off.
Those shirts should be burnt...
I think you’re right about May. Any sensible person with an understanding of negotiation would have made sure she had all the key stakeholders aligned before going in to bat. Especially as this is such a long term issue it should transcend the normal electoral cycle. Instead she decided she knew best. Reminds me of my ex-wife 😆
Better to have people on the inside of the tent pissing out than on the outside pissing in.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
I think you’re right about May. Any sensible person with an understanding of negotiation would have made sure she had all the key stakeholders aligned before going in to bat. Especially as this is such a long term issue it should transcend the normal electoral cycle. Instead she decided she knew best. Reminds me of my ex-wife 😆
Better to have people on the inside of the tent pissing out than on the outside pissing in.
IMHO there is no good Brexit. But I would have accepted the type of Brexit that Melanie wanted. That can only be acheived now through a Labour government (very likely a minority one) and a leave vote in a second referendum. An unfettered Tory majority will bring a disastrous hard Brexit - possibly ending up as no-deal in a years time, The fanatics have taken over. Even my MP, Alan Duncan, a one nation Tory, but complete loyalist, is not standing again - he knows the right wing nutters are taking over...
With respect, you are overreacting. This is likely to be yet another clusterfack decision by an inept backroom staff looking to max out business revenue. But....... if indeed the request to hire the premises was signed off at Board level, then they should explain themselves. Why were issues of bias, fan reaction, access to the club shirt etc not foreseen? Does nothing penetrate the BP bubble? Keep out of Politics. We are not FGR, Celtic or Rangers. I will be going to support the team, especially the younger emerging talent, who have nothing to do with this furore. If the team rally to Limbrick and Moore I will book my hotel in Carlisle, climb Blencathra then see us do battle against another managerless club.
Meanwhile, in the absence of clarification from the club, it would be nice to read some emollient words from the Trust to reaffirm the apolitical stance of our fan base.
With respect unless you know how strongly I feel about it and the reasons for that you can't say I'm over-reacting. Agree with everything else you say and Blencathra followed by Carlise sounds great. I'm planning to be there myself and will continue to get to away games when I can but won't set foot in BP until there's significant change at the top.
With respect unless you know how strongly I feel about it and the reasons for that you can't say I'm over-reacting. Agree with everything else you say and Blencathra followed by Carlise sounds great. I'm planning to be there myself and will continue to get to away games when I can but won't set foot in BP until there's significant change at the top.
We must all take stock and follow our consciences. I am sure you have quite personal reasons for your decision.
Absorbing the impact of 'shirtgate' and Jolley's sacking will take time and both are shrouded in the fog of suspicion and dubious circumstances. The downbeat atmosphere at recent games, low crowds, torrid tactics and rancid results have made me question whether to attend as many away fixtures. I erased Cambridge and Northampton from the calendar but kept Carlisle for personal reasons. More of us, I am sure, will default to going on a game by game basis as more 'facts' emerge. Meanwhile, the tumble weed gathers. BTW Vance, I won't be tackling Sharp Edge again. Too old for scary routes in Winter!
Not only is this a PR disaster for our football club. It is a PR disaster for our sponsor too. All it takes is one person to tweet the picture of the Farage shirt and refuse to buy Young’s products because of their perceived backing of him and this spreads as is the nature of Twitter and social media as a whole.
As I said previously, as a brand you do not touch religion or politics. It’s marketing suicide.
Well done GTFC, yet again you throw the club in the gutter, when will you employ staff with any working experience beyond that flipping office?
I have worked in brand relations so know what I’m talking about.
Not only is this a PR disaster for our football club. What is a PR disaster for our sponsor too. All it takes is one person to tweet the picture of the Farage shirt and refuse to buy Young’s products because of their perceived backing of him and this spreads as is the nature of Twitter and social media as a whole.
As I said previously, as a brand you do not touch religion or politics. It’s marketing suicide.
Well done GTFC, yet again you throw the club in the gutter, when will you employ staff with any working experience beyond that flipping office?
I have worked in brand relations so know what I’m talking about.
Good point.
Something else occurred - who point the names on the shirts - was that done in the club shop?
Islam is an ideology, there is no specific race of people associated with Islam, Jews however have been documented as a race of people going back to the time of Abraham
Since Jews have mostly “married in” for several thousand years, there are certain features that are distinctly common among Jews—as there are among Inuits, Icelanders, Amish, the Basque people and others. On the other hand, since there is room for conversion, those features are not ubiquitous within the group.
So to hate Islam the ideology isn't being racist but to hate Jews is, hope that has cleared up.
Most Muslims in the UK are mostly African, Asian or Arab with some converting, so Islam is made up of many races just like Christianity. When has there ever been a claim against any Muslim when they say death to all non believers that they are being racist towards Christians. Yet the left will cry racist when people have said they don't want any more mosques being built.
Another thing to clear up Islamaphobia isn't racist. A phobia is an irrational fear of something that’s unlikely to cause harm. The word itself comes from the Greek word phobos, which means fear or horror. People who have issues with Islam are not made up from irrational fear's but on observations from Islams interactions in the middle east and it's influence outside of the middle east. Not all terrorists are Islamic but most terrorist acts carried out are, so how is the fear of Islam irrational if you are a Kurd or minority Christian living in an Islamic country.
arachnophobia, fear of spiders. claustrophobia, fear of confined or crowded spaces Nosocomephobia Fear of hospitals
Oh dear. Where to even start? No matter how you phrase it discriminating against a huge group of people is unacceptable quite simply because it involves being a d1ck to other human beings. As for suggesting it's rational to fear nearly two billion Muslims because of a tiny minority of extremists just wow.
Oh dear. Where to even start? No matter how you phrase it discriminating against a huge group of people is unacceptable quite simply because it involves being a d1ck to other human beings. As for suggesting it's rational to fear nearly two billion Muslims because of a tiny minority of extremists just wow.
Not racism though is it.
If people don't want to see millions more migrants coming into the country putting huge pressure on the NHS, schooling and housing then they should have the right to say so in a democratic country without the name calling.
The NHS is under pressure because the Tories have cut funding per person towards it. It is not under pressure because of immigration. Brexit will not help the NHS because according to the government's own report "the share of (healthcare) expenditure estimated to be on EEA migrants is much less than their share of the healthcare workforce so that they contribute more to the supply of healthcare than the demand." (source p85)
I'm not even gonna bother getting into yet another remainer/Brexiteer, left/right argument.
BTW, there's plenty of left wing Brexiteers, the Brexit Party has MP's from all across the political spectrum - even so far as ex far left Communists!
Back to the case in point, from what I gather 1. The club don't vet who books at McMenemy's and 2. Grimsby's Brexit Party MP had the shirts made and presented them himself -they were not made and presented on behalf of the Club or by a representative of it.
Perhaps the Club should have caught wind of the event and had words that the Club is and shall always be politically neutral and shouldn't be banded as supportive or tagged in any way.
The Brexit Party MP should apologise, yes the Club weren't on the ball as to any potential for upset bug it wasn't them doing the deed.
Like I said before if Lib Dems, Labour (like they did at Blackpool FCs executive suite the day before) the Greens or whoever wanted to hire the function suite I'd have no problem with that so long as the Club weren't there waving clubs saying we back such and such.
Perhaps with paying back Fenty's loans we desperate for any and all business we can get?
I'm sure the labour party weren't daft enough to hold up Blackpool FC shirts with their names on at their executive suite, they probably wise enough from years of campaigning experience not the stir the pot in such a way and/or Blackpool were on the ball enough to make it clear that there was to be no reference to them or connection made.
Probably Brexit Party unprofessional in their infancy and/or our club not on the ball enough to make it clear not to 'tar' them.
Doesn't surprise me that our Club failed to put in checks and measures, but I thought Blackpool were pretty disastrously run also. Probably Labour being professional.
The NHS is under pressure because the Tories have cut funding per person towards it. It is not under pressure because of immigration. Brexit will not help the NHS because according to the government's own report "the share of (healthcare) expenditure estimated to be on EEA migrants is much less than their share of the healthcare workforce so that they contribute more to the supply of healthcare than the demand." (source p85)
Please stop peddling falsehoods.
The vast majority of EU migrants don't work in the NHS, and I didn't see your comment on housing and schooling.
I Not all terrorists are Islamic but most terrorist acts carried out are, so how is the fear of Islam irrational if you are a Kurd or minority Christian living in an Islamic country.
The majority of Kurds are.....wait for it.....Muslim....
Oh and Mods why is this thread still in the "Football" section of the forum, with the likes of the above posters post?
Perhaps the Club should have caught wind of the event and had words that the Club is and shall always be politically neutral and shouldn't be banded as supportive or tagged in any way.
The Brexit Party MP should apologise, yes the Club weren't on the ball as to any potential for upset bug it wasn't them doing the deed.
There’s no chance in hell that the club didn’t know the Brexit Party had booked McMenemys.
Also, it was announced in the press at least a week before the event. It was met with lots of criticism, and I know plenty of people who wrote to the club voicing their concerns. The club have not written back to any of them, they let it go ahead, and now we are where we are.
The NHS is under pressure because the Tories have cut funding per person towards it. It is not under pressure because of immigration. Brexit will not help the NHS because according to the government's own report "the share of (healthcare) expenditure estimated to be on EEA migrants is much less than their share of the healthcare workforce so that they contribute more to the supply of healthcare than the demand." (source p85)
Please stop peddling falsehoods.
So the huge influx of EU nationals over the last 15 years, especially from Eastern Europe, has not put the NHS under any kind of pressure due to the increased number of people using a facility that was designed for a smaller population?
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
You are a deeply troubled individual and almost certainly on a watch list of some description. Seek help.
I was asked for evidence to back up what I was saying, sorry for being informed unlike some of the apologists on here. As for a watch list, GCHQ, we are all on a watch list. I've not posted anything that would jeopardise the security of this country or it's inhabitants, however some of the apologists on here may be on that watch list as sympathisers.
When ever HM Forces deploy to any country you get intelligence briefs on that country, every country I've been to, I've sat in briefings that can last hours, briefed from intelligence reports from countries like Cyprus (briefed on the issues with the coup in 1974 and there after), Italy (briefed on local mafia and other gangs), Turkey (briefed on the PKK and the Kurdish issue) and the Afganistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman (briefed on Islamic groups and some of the history of those countries). Troubled no, well informed yes. You don't just get an intelligence briefing but a history briefing too, like the time I went to Afganistan you learn that the British were told they could have safe passage to India when we were forced out in 1842 but they were attacked and massacred along the route so only a few made it out.
Why has this moved to non-football? The reason it's caused such offence is that it is about representation of our club, and views on the mixing of political ideologies and football.
It is as directly related to football as discussions around a renovated stand, matchday transport or an interview with a shareholder.
How can people say the influx of EU citizens does not have an effect on the NHS,
There are over 10,000 living in the Boston area with very little added to the size of the hospital or schools.
At Thetford just up the road from me there are over 10,000 living there and they do not have a hospital so the one in Bury St Edmunds has to take the extra work load.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
How can people say the influx of EU citizens does not have an effect on the NHS,
There are over 10,000 living in the Boston area with very little added to the size of the hospital or schools.
At Thetford just up the road from me there are over 10,000 living there and they do not have a hospital so the one in Bury St Edmunds has to take the extra work load.
But it’s well documented that EU migrants are net contributors to the economy - so they produce more money than they cost. They pay their taxes, just like you, so the question needs to be asked - where’s the money going?
How much money do they make for big business in factories, or delivering parcels, or picking fruit on massive farms? Someone’s making a profit from their labour and that money isn’t making its way into the infrastructure required to support the population.
It’s being creamed off the top, in tax evasion and tax breaks for big corporations. Migrants create wealth for people up the chain, that’s where it’s going missing.
Why has this moved to non-football? The reason it's caused such offence is that it is about representation of our club, and views on the mixing of political ideologies and football.
It is as directly related to football as discussions around a renovated stand, matchday transport or an interview with a shareholder.
Thread was hijacked by the far left claiming farage is a racist and a facist.
How is Farage racist when he wants to trade with the world.
How is Farage a facist when he wants to break free from the EU which is facist.
Fascism stands for a centralized government headed by a dictator., that's is the EU in a nutshell.
Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.
Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
So the huge influx of EU nationals over the last 15 years, especially from Eastern Europe, has not put the NHS under any kind of pressure due to the increased number of people using a facility that was designed for a smaller population?
Such a simple truth that you point out, and also Pete's on the same topic just does not seem to resonate with people who refuse to believe it.
Even if the immigrants produce a net benefit to the economy, what good has it done us? On a hamster wheel of greater and greater immigration with a fractionally higher GDP, to be shared between many millions more of the population.
Added to that the increases needed in housing, schools, NHS provision, infrastructure and in some cases increased welfare benefits.
Some towns have been completely transformed and the indigenous population had no say in whatsoever.
Nobody is objecting to controlled immigration with numbers that we can assimilate, but the current level is just unsustainable and ridiculous.
Where migrants contribute more to the economy than they cost, this money should be going into providing and improving the infrastructure for a larger population. To say people have no say is completely wrong - by law they have a say every 5 years but the country has consistently chosen to hand that surplus economic benefit straight over to people who don’t need it in tax breaks for the wealthy. Don’t blame migrants for the fact that the country has decided, again and again, to give billionaires tax breaks rather than improve life for the general population.
Besides, walk into any GP surgery or hospital waiting room and you’ll be hard pressed to find a Polish plumber or Lithuanian strawberry picker, but you’ll see plenty of pensioners, urine cans and overweight people.
Take some responsibility. Migrants aren’t the cause of all your woes.
Where migrants contribute more to the economy than they cost, this money should be going into providing and improving the infrastructure for a larger population. To say people have no say is completely wrong - by law they have a say every 5 years but the country has consistently chosen to hand that surplus economic benefit straight over to people who don’t need it in tax breaks for the wealthy. Don’t blame migrants for the fact that the country has decided, again and again, to give billionaires tax breaks rather than improve life for the general population.
Besides, walk into any GP surgery or hospital waiting room and you’ll be hard pressed to find a Polish plumber or Lithuanian strawberry picker, but you’ll see plenty of pensioners, urine cans and overweight people.
Take some responsibility. Migrants aren’t the cause of all your woes.
Nobody is blaming migrants. Its all in your head. We are putting forward an argument that they are nowhere near the benefit you think.
Not much of an argument is it? Migrants create a load of wealth that WE p1ss away, then blame migrants for it?
I gave a reasonable argument above, but you don't want to know. That is your prerogative.
The only thing I might ask someone like yourself is "Is there ANY limit to immigration in your eyes, and at what level do you think it might increase problems for the whole population in terms of housing, infrastructure, NHS provision, road congestion, school places?
You're ignoring all the actual hard economic evidence to the contrary. I think i'll take the word of academics and economists over your gut feelings.
Of course you would. We all know that. I would rather take a more pragmatic view, based on real peoples views.
Have you any input on how many immigrants you would like to flood the UK, or would you rather hope that there would be no negative impact on housing, infrastructure, schools hospitals and roads? Just for a laugh, give us your best guess at an upper limit you would like to arrive without it having a neegative impact on all of us. The hard economic evidence you talk about is an increase of GDP at the margins, which means the square root of not a lot when there are millions more people in the country, all needing state services.
Of course you would. We all know that. I would rather take a more pragmatic view, based on real peoples views.
Never seen someone revelling this much over their own ignorance before. Imagine if scientists and engineers relied on feelings instead of evidence? We'd all still be stuck in the stone age.
Regarding immigration: setting arbitrary caps on the level of acceptable immigration is stupid and economically damaging. Our economy is reliant on immigrants and as you've been constantly told they contribute more in taxes and economic activity than they cost in terms of healthcare and schooling. Any issues related to funding and lack of capacity in schooling, healthcare and housing are caused by Government policies and spending decisions as ska face has clearly explained in earlier posts in this thread.
Right now British citizens who earn less than £18.6k aren't allowed to bring their spouses to live in the UK with them. If they happen to have kids and they earn less than £22.4k then they can't get a visa for them either. We're currently splitting up families because people like you blame immigrants for problems caused by the government. You should be ashamed.
Never seen someone revelling this much over their own ignorance before. Imagine if scientists and engineers relied on feelings instead of evidence? We'd all still be stuck in the stone age.
Regarding immigration: setting arbitrary caps on the level of acceptable immigration is stupid and economically damaging. Our economy is reliant on immigrants and as you've been constantly told they contribute more in taxes and economic activity than they cost in terms of healthcare and schooling. Any issues related to funding and lack of capacity in schooling, healthcare and housing are caused by the Government policies and spending decisions as ska face has clearly explained in earlier posts in this thread.
Right now British citizens who earn less than £18.6k aren't allowed to bring their spouses to live in the UK with them. If they happen to have kids and they earn less than £22.4k then they can't get a visa for them either. We're currently splitting up families because people like you blame immigrants for problems caused by the government. You should be ashamed.
Well funnily enough I have never seen someone so puffed up with their own self importance before, so lets call it quits.
You can throw all the expert calculations you like at me, and I will counter with the obvious and unmistakable conclusions that mass uncontrolled immigration is not good for the county on a number of levels. Even on the economic one, which you seem to exclusively focus on, millions of immigrants producing a slightly higher GDP spread ever more thinly is of little value.
Towns and cities have been changed beyond recognition due to mass uncontrolled immigration. GP's are overstretched, housing is scarce, school places over subscribed, wages subdued for the lower paid and our infrastructure struggling to cope.
You blame the government, probably because the Conservatives are in power, but any government would struggle to improve services when there are millions more accessing them.
You don't care for us Brexiteers, which is fair enough. You hate the Tories, which is fair enough. What you cannot seem to understand, or want to understand is that people have different view to yours. My view is equally as important as yours. The Brexit voter, who sees what is happening in his neighborhood, is of equal value to your vote. That is democracy - all votes are equal.
PS. Even taking your calculations into account, give me an estimate of how many immigrants you would be happy to see come to the UK in the next 10 years?
Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.
The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.
And your life is equally as important as a migrants.
Of great importance to you and your family, but of absolutely no significance whatsoever to the ruling classes. You think those at the top of the Brexit Party give a single solitary sheeite if you drop dead waiting for an ambulance tomorrow? Nope.
But keep on lining their pockets. They must be absolutely p1ssing themselves at having serfs like you doing their bidding.
Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.
The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.
I didn't realise that ALL the immigrants were going to be removed-I'm sorry-must get my facts right before I comment
Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.
The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.
I think your reasoning is gradually unraveling.
There is a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that would think no immigration at all is what is required.
What we are arguing for is reasonable numbers, with the infrastructure, housing, schools, hospitals etc to accommodate them. The small increase in GDP attributed to immigration is swallowed up and more by having to provide extra services. This is one reason why Labour are so low in the polls; like you they cannot grasp the simple concept of allowing mass uncontrolled immigration is having a detrimental effect on communities becasue the services have not kept pace with immigration levels; yet all you do is argue for more immigration, and castigate the Tory government for not spending more on services to keep pace with more immigration to allow the cycle to continue.
I smile when you mention "ideological" reasons in respect of the Tory party, whilst you yourself remain steadfastly neutral..?!
Can I ask again (mainly for any posters who might be thinking of voting for Labour) - how many immigrants would you like to come to the UK in uncontrolled numbers? Another 5 million? 10 million? More than that?
And your life is equally as important as a migrants.
Of great importance to you and your family, but of absolutely no significance whatsoever to the ruling classes. You think those at the top of the Brexit Party give a single solitary sheeite if you drop dead waiting for an ambulance tomorrow? Nope.
But keep on lining their pockets. They must be absolutely p1ssing themselves at having serfs like you doing their bidding.
I have never given a penny piece to the Brexit party, or any party come to that. What gave you that idea? I am arguing for the principle.
There is a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that would think no immigration at all is what is required.
What we are arguing for is reasonable numbers, with the infrastructure, housing, schools, hospitals etc to accommodate them. The small increase in GDP attributed to immigration is swallowed up and more by having to provide extra services. This is one reason why Labour are so low in the polls; like you they cannot grasp the simple concept of allowing mass uncontrolled immigration is having a detrimental effect on communities becasue the services have not kept pace with immigration levels; yet all you do is argue for more immigration, and castigate the Tory government for not spending more on services to keep pace with more immigration to allow the cycle to continue.
I smile when you mention "ideological" reasons in respect of the Tory party, whilst you yourself remain steadfastly neutral..?!
Can I ask again (mainly for any posters who might be thinking of voting for Labour) - how many immigrants would you like to come to the UK in uncontrolled numbers? Another 5 million? 10 million? More than that?
No it isn't, you're fundamentally wrong on this point and it undermines your entire argument. Non-EU immigration is heavily controlled and I know this because I work with immigrants for a living. Have you heard of the Health Immigration Surcharge? Do you know how much UK Visas & Immigration charge in non refundable visa application fees? Do you know about salary and wealth requirements for different types of visas? Because if you had the first idea about this stuff you'd realise that immigration into the UK is miles away from being uncontrolled. It's a flipping expensive nightmare for most people trying to do anything beyond visiting the UK for short periods of time (and if you're from a country where the typical residents are a tinge too brown then it's even more of an uphill battle to get through our borders).
On the ideological aspect, I suggest you read up on the amount of private healthcare companies who donate to Conservative MPs, consider what those politicians are doing in terms of defunding the NHS and start joining up the dots between those two things and the increasing nature of privatisation of healthcare provision in this country. If you're fine with private companies running healthcare services for profit then fine ok, but you need to realise that the profit they make (or corners they cut to increase profits) could actually be spent on treating patients instead of lining their shareholders pockets.
Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.
The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.
But you assume that people who want immigration controlled are against all immigration. Of course we need skilled people and we should recruit from overseas but there has to be some kind of control. I have holidayed in Bulgaria several times over the last 20 years and stay in package holiday hotels. The minimum wage in Bulgaria for 2019 is less than £4 /hour ( at current exchange rates ). You don't need to be an expert in finance and economics to realise that a hotel worker in Bulgaria can double their wages by doing the same job in the UK. Of course our cost of living is higher but an immigrant hotel worker from Bulgaria can see that if a UK worker can live on our minimum wage then so can they. If the EU was a level playing field with the same taxation levels, welfare benefits and minimum wage applying to all member states then that would be fine and free movement of labour would not be a problem. But the way it stands now there will always be a large movement of people from the poorer countries to the wealthier ones. This not only causes a labour shortage in the poorer countries , especially skilled workers, but an increased excess in the labour force for the wealthier ones. I would imagine that there are a considerably higher number of Eastern Europeans working in the UK than there are UK workers in Eastern Europe and this imbalance will manifest itself in a lot of problems in the years to come both in the UK and the poorer EU countries.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
No it isn't, you're fundamentally wrong on this point and it undermines your entire argument. Non-EU immigration is heavily controlled and I know this because I work with immigrants for a living. Have you heard of the Health Immigration Surcharge? Do you know how much UK Visas & Immigration charge in non refundable visa application fees? Do you know about salary and wealth requirements for different types of visas? Because if you had the first idea about this stuff you'd realise that immigration into the UK is miles away from being uncontrolled. It's a flipping expensive nightmare for most people trying to do anything beyond visiting the UK for short periods of time (and if you're from a country where the typical residents are a tinge too brown then it's even more of an uphill battle to get through our borders).
On the ideological aspect, I suggest you read up on the amount of private healthcare companies who donate to Conservative MPs, consider what those politicians are doing in terms of defunding the NHS and start joining up the dots between those two things and the increasing nature of privatisation of healthcare provision in this country. If you're fine with private companies running healthcare services for profit then fine ok, but you need to realise that the profit they make (or corners they cut to increase profits) could actually be spent on treating patients instead of lining their shareholders pockets.
I see you are trying to muddy the waters to talk about the controls on non EU countries regards immigration when the vast majority of our immigration over the last decade has come from being a member of the EU.
Just so that we are clear (especially to labour voters) how much more uncontrolled immigration from the EU would you like over say 5 years? Is it in the millions, perhaps the same as a medium sized town over several years, or is the truth you don't really care how many come in regardless of the consequences?
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
But it’s well documented that EU migrants are net contributors to the economy - so they produce more money than they cost. They pay their taxes, just like you, so the question needs to be asked - where’s the money going?
How much money do they make for big business in factories, or delivering parcels, or picking fruit on massive farms? Someone’s making a profit from their labour and that money isn’t making its way into the infrastructure required to support the population.
It’s being creamed off the top, in tax evasion and tax breaks for big corporations. Migrants create wealth for people up the chain, that’s where it’s going missing.
I agree to a certain point in what you are saying but there is a big difference,
I am 71 and am still paying tax which I started paying when I left school at 15,
My dad paid tax all his life the same as his dad my grandad,
So we have put money into the system for hundreds of years,
EU people come in without paying anything in and they expect schooling and healthcare straight away.
Solution + the EU country they come from should fund them for say 10 years then at least the said people have paid into our pot.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Children don’t pay tax, should we just leave them to it?
It’s always the same problem - people punching down because they’re afraid to punch up. You KNOW successive govts have taken the p1ss out of you for decades, so why not try and stop them?
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
Not controlled enough to allow millions to come in though is it?
Perhaps you could answer my question I have asked your pro-immigration colleague 3 times? What level of immigration would you like to see from the EU in future years? I am asking mainly for labour voters.
Children don’t pay tax, should we just leave them to it?
It’s always the same problem - people punching down because they’re afraid to punch up. You KNOW successive govts have taken the p1ss out of you for decades, so why not try and stop them?
How can we do that mate ?
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
As the Tories have found out for the last three successive Govts (2010, 2015, 2017), setting arbitrary targets for migration is pointless as you end up in a position where you just start deporting people for being black, as the Windrush generation found out.
You have got zero idea about the capacity of the country to deal with unspecified migration figures - you’re soiling yourself now about housing when twice as much land is used for golf courses in the U.K. than housing.
The target should be to tackle the people literally laughing at you as they take your money, but you appear to be too cowardly or too much of a bully to do so.
There’s one party currently proposing to redistribute wealth to the people who create it and rely on it, away from those who hoard it and deny the country the chance to develop in line with other advanced countries.
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
Well after reading reports of boats and dinghys washed up on beaches along the south coast, intercepted in the Channel and escorted to our shores, container lorries crammed with the living and dead found in the country on a regular basis, holiday makers finding immigrants tumbling out of their cars and motor homes on arrival back in the UK, then yes, I would hazard a guess that it's not very well controlled. Well I would if I didn't mind being labelled a raving Nazi /Fascist /Right wing Gammon.
But you assume that people who want immigration controlled are against all immigration. Of course we need skilled people and we should recruit from overseas but there has to be some kind of control. I have holidayed in Bulgaria several times over the last 20 years and stay in package holiday hotels. The minimum wage in Bulgaria for 2019 is less than £4 /hour ( at current exchange rates ). You don't need to be an expert in finance and economics to realise that a hotel worker in Bulgaria can double their wages by doing the same job in the UK. Of course our cost of living is higher but an immigrant hotel worker from Bulgaria can see that if a UK worker can live on our minimum wage then so can they. If the EU was a level playing field with the same taxation levels, welfare benefits and minimum wage applying to all member states then that would be fine and free movement of labour would not be a problem. But the way it stands now there will always be a large movement of people from the poorer countries to the wealthier ones. This not only causes a labour shortage in the poorer countries , especially skilled workers, but an increased excess in the labour force for the wealthier ones. I would imagine that there are a considerably higher number of Eastern Europeans working in the UK than there are UK workers in Eastern Europe and this imbalance will manifest itself in a lot of problems in the years to come both in the UK and the poorer EU countries.
If the UK was such an attractive destination for Bulgarians then significantly more than 3,324 of them would be emigrating here each year (on average based on immigration estimates between 2001 and 2015). There's 7 million people living in Bulgaria - 0.047% of the entire population of Bulgaria move to the UK each year - a hilariously small number. Obviously we have a stronger economy than Bulgaria and a higher minimum wage, but most Bulgarians can't speak English and have family and cultural ties that outweigh the economic benefit they'd get from moving here to work. The idea that we're somehow flooded by EU immigrants with which we can't possibly cope with cos they're draining all our resources is complete and utter balderdash.
There’s one party currently proposing to redistribute wealth to the people who create it and rely on it, away from those who hoard it and deny the country the chance to develop in line with other advanced countries.
Yes but you said governments over the years, if Labour get in wont they be the government ?
I have lived under a few Labour governments and to be honest they are all the same the working man is no better off whoever wins the election.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Yes but you said governments over the years, if Labour get in wont they be the government ?
I have lived under a few Labour governments and to be honest they are all the same the working man is no better off whoever wins the election.
There’s a reason why Rupert Murdoch backed Tony Blair and why he’s so strongly opposed to Corbyn. It’s not because he doesn’t like vegetarians, it’s because Corbyn’s Labour are the complete opposite of the war mongers and speculators that have come before them.
I see you are trying to muddy the waters to talk about the controls on non EU countries regards immigration when the vast majority of our immigration over the last decade has come from being a member of the EU.
Non-EU migration which we have complete control over has always been higher than from EU countries, generally much higher.
What is most noticeable about the referendum vote is that the areas with the highest proportion of leave voters are also those with some of the lowest proportions of actual immigrants. It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of it, hence the banal scare stories beloved by the most fervent Brexiteers.
Well after reading reports of boats and dinghys washed up on beaches along the south coast, intercepted in the Channel and escorted to our shores, container lorries crammed with the living and dead found in the country on a regular basis, holiday makers finding immigrants tumbling out of their cars and motor homes on arrival back in the UK, then yes, I would hazard a guess that it's not very well controlled. Well I would if I didn't mind being labelled a raving Nazi /Fascist /Right wing Gammon.
If immigration was uncontrolled, then why would people be attempting to enter the country illegally? People from outside of the EU, naturally.
Please make your mind up. Is immigration controlled or uncontrolled?
If the UK was such an attractive destination for Bulgarians then significantly more than 3,324 of them would be emigrating here each year (on average based on immigration estimates between 2001 and 2015). There's 7 million people living in Bulgaria - 0.047% of the entire population of Bulgaria move to the UK each year - a hilariously small number. Obviously we have a stronger economy than Bulgaria and a higher minimum wage, but most Bulgarians can't speak English and have family and cultural ties that outweigh the economic benefit they'd get from moving here to work. The idea that we're somehow flooded by EU immigrants with which we can't possibly cope with cos they're draining all our resources is complete and utter balderdash.
I only used Bulgaria as an example because I have visited there more times than any other EU country in the last 10 years. How about immigrants from Poland, Romania , Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary? Why do so many of them come here if their economies are thriving ? It can't be for the weather or political freedom. Do more of them speak English than say Germans or French? You say the fact that we are flooded with EU immigrants who are draining our resources is utter balderdash but how many EU nationals from the countries I quoted are there and what plans were put in place to accommodate such a large influx of unforeseen immigrants?
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Why can’t you grasp this simple point - EU migrants contribute, on average, almost £3k per head MORE to the economy than they COST the economy. They are net CONTRIBUTORS.
So how are THEY draining resources?
This has got to be the 7th or 8th time I’ve seen this mentioned on this thread alone. Is there something you don’t understand about that?
Non-EU migration which we have complete control over has always been higher than from EU countries, generally much higher.
What is most noticeable about the referendum vote is that the areas with the highest proportion of leave voters are also those with some of the lowest proportions of actual immigrants. It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of it, hence the banal scare stories beloved by the most fervent Brexiteers.
What about Boston then or is that an anomaly?
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
I only used Bulgaria as an example because I have visited there more times than any other EU country in the last 10 years. How about immigrants from Poland, Romania , Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary? Why do so many of them come here if their economies are thriving ? It can't be for the weather or political freedom. Do more of them speak English than say Germans or French? You say the fact that we are flooded with EU immigrants who are draining our resources is utter balderdash but how many EU nationals from the countries I quoted are there and what plans were put in place to accommodate such a large influx of unforeseen immigrants?
Non-EU migration which we have complete control over has always been higher than from EU countries, generally much higher.
What is most noticeable about the referendum vote is that the areas with the highest proportion of leave voters are also those with some of the lowest proportions of actual immigrants. It's not immigration that's the problem. It's the fear of it, hence the banal scare stories beloved by the most fervent Brexiteers.
The only thing i'd add to the above is that international students are still counted as non-EU immigrants in the statistics (of which there were estimated to be 217,000 arriving to the UK in 2018). The vast majority of these students leave the UK at the end of their course, so really shouldn't be treated as permanently settled immigrants who according to a load of posters here apparently deprive native Britons of employment opportunities.
Why can’t you grasp this simple point - EU migrants contribute, on average, almost £3k per head MORE to the economy than they COST the economy. They are net CONTRIBUTORS.
So how are THEY draining resources?
This has got to be the 7th or 8th time I’ve seen this mentioned on this thread alone. Is there something you don’t understand about that?
Thats odd. I read a report that said the benefit of net migration was less than 1% of GDP on the economy. (You will have to take my word for that) and when you take into account the pressure on schools hospitals roads infrastructure and housing all it does is make a slightly larger pot accessible by millions more people.
It doesn't matter what we say really, you will never change your mind and I wont change mine. We will have to let the electorate decide.
One thing I would like to add to this debate is my personal stance on the whole immigration subject. I an neither a xenophobe or racist. However I do believe that any country has a sovereign right to control who is allowed into that country either as a permanent or temporary resident.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Thats odd. I read a report that said the benefit of net migration was less than 1% of GDP on the economy. (You will have to take my word for that) and when you take into account the pressure on schools hospitals roads infrastructure and housing all it does is make a slightly larger pot accessible by millions more people.
It doesn't matter what we say really, you will never change your mind and I wont change mine. We will have to let the electorate decide.
Do you not find your wilful ignorance embarrassing?
I’m bored to tears with you, but I beg you - read this article, it sums up the last few pages of this thread perfectly.
You don’t have to have some big public conversion to anarchosyndicalism or get a job as a case worker supporting asylum seekers, but at least do yourself the favour of not spending the next 4 weeks in abject ignorance.
You don’t have to have some big public conversion to anarchosyndicalism or get a job as a case worker supporting asylum seekers, but at least do yourself the favour of not spending the next 4 weeks in abject ignorance.
Crikey - what brought that outburst on? You seem to find it unfathomable that people have different views to your own. As I say, we will see what the electorate decide. I don't think you will have many converts to your side though as you come across as very patronising.
I won't reply to any more of your posts on this subject, as I think we have done it do death, so you will no longer need to be bored to tears.
Crikey - what brought that outburst on? You seem to find it unfathomable that people have different views to your own. As I say, we will see what the electorate decide. I don't think you will have many converts to your side though as you come across as very patronising.
I won't reply to any more of your posts on this subject, as I think we have done it do death, so you will no longer need to be bored to tears.
Goodbye and good luck.
Well said.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Crikey - what brought that outburst on? You seem to find it unfathomable that people have different views to your own. As I say, we will see what the electorate decide. I don't think you will have many converts to your side though as you come across as very patronising.
I won't reply to any more of your posts on this subject, as I think we have done it do death, so you will no longer need to be bored to tears.
Goodbye and good luck.
We’ll need all the luck we can get with ignorant fucckers like you deciding the country’s fate. Makes me ill.
That’s the problem - again - you don’t get to decide what is an objective fact based on whether you like the person saying it or not.
I think “debate” is stretching it a bit too...
And you immediately reject anybody who has a differing view to yours. How ironic that the word "Fascism" appears in the title of this thread which includes intolerance of others views.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Yeah because when we provide evidence to back up our assertions you lot decide it is simply wrong and should be overrided by your gut feelings. What is your problem with evidence based policy?
And you immediately reject anybody who has a differing view to yours. How ironic that the word "Fascism" appears in the title of this thread which includes intolerance of others views.
When your argument is that migrants are a drain on resources, and people keep showing the evidence that proves otherwise - yes, I tend not to have much time for it. Especially when it’s clear you’ve not bothered reading any of the sources or studies or articles people have put up here.
When your argument is that migrants are a drain on resources, and people keep showing the evidence that proves otherwise - yes, I tend not to have much time for it. Especially when it’s clear you’ve not bothered reading any of the sources or studies or articles people have put up here.
You’re like flat earthers, but worse.
I never said they were a drain on resources but that immigration put pressure on resources, which is not the same. I have read all the reports quoted and also the relevant links associated with those articles. One thing that is glaring obvious is that for every report I read there was another that contradicted it. They also all said there was a degree of "flexibility" in the figures quoted. As I'm sure you will agree that there are hundreds of reports and investigations over the years that have been challenged but counter reports. One example was a leading doctor who categorically stated that an investigation he carried out, with all the relevant data, clearly proved a direct link with the MMR vaccine to child autism. This has now been proved to be totally false but the effects of people believing that single study is now being shown by an increase in the number of unvaccinated children and the dangers that represents. All studies and investigations are subject to the data collected and how it is interpreted but do not prove a situation, merely indicate because of the subjective nature of the collected data. As somebody famous once said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
When an influx of immigrants settle in a small area it is hard for the schools to cope, Most of the schools are near capacity anyway so an extension or another school needs to be built. This money has to come out of the councils budgets which they have not got because the immigrants have not been here long enough to have paid any or very little monies in.
Its the same with the doctors surgery they have to recruit extra staff to cope with the influx, Then we have the hospitals which are vastly understaffed in the first place.
All these problem can be easily sorted if you have controlled immigration but just allowing anybody in who wants to come here is unstainable . So if we can control the numbers we can plan ahead and prepare the said resources so they are in place for everybody.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
So migrants are paying in more than they take out, and even go some way to paying for other people, but what they put into the pot is being taken out and given to people like Amazon and Google.
What you or I have paid into the pot in the past is irrelevant, unfortunately, as that money was spent looking after us at the time, or spent on wars, or council housing, or a million other things. The money coming in NOW is being given away NOW in tax breaks for billionaires who are allowed to get by without putting in their fair share, and not being put into schools or hospitals or roads or housing. The money is there, it’s being handed out as bribes and gifts to big businesses. This is not a secret.
So migrants are paying in more than they take out, and even go some way to paying for other people, but what they put into the pot is being taken out and given to people like Amazon and Google.
What you or I have paid into the pot in the past is irrelevant, unfortunately, as that money was spent looking after us at the time, or spent on wars, or council housing, or a million other things. The money coming in NOW is being given away NOW in tax breaks for billionaires who are allowed to get by without putting in their fair share, and not being put into schools or hospitals or roads or housing. The money is there, it’s being handed out as bribes and gifts to big businesses. This is not a secret.
So you have managed to turn a debate/discussion into the pros and cons of immigration into a party political broadcast for the Labour Party (a political party I was a card carrying member for many years). Of course what the UK citizens have paid in the past is completely relevant as that has paid for the schools, NHS and other infrastructures that recent immigrants can use. Do you honestly believe that getting all these billionaires to pay more will actually make a difference? We live in a global economy with all the modern technology that goes with it. These people can easily up sticks and move to a more tax friendly country and conduct all their business electronically. You can then have a situation where you not only lose their tax income but also the money both taxable and otherwise that goes into the economy.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Where are “they” going to all move to then? The U.K. already has the lowest rates of corporation tax in the G7 and lower than almost all OECD countries
How easy do you think it is to actually move a major corporation to somewhere with lower taxes? Do you think investment bankers accustomed to living in Belgravia are going to up sticks and drag their families to Belize?
Corporation tax accounted for £57billion in tax receipts last year, in 2016/17 the difference between the tax paid and the tax due was £33bn (https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/). So would making people pay their taxes make a difference? Errrr, yeah, to the tune of over £33bn a year. You never know, we might be able to spend that alleviating some of the terrible strain caused by those EU migrants!
It’s turned into a discussion about tax and responsibility because you and a few others are hiding behind the line that EU migrants cause an insurmountable strain on roads (really?), hospitals and schools. You can’t seem to grasp that the strain is caused by the Government not improving those things with the money they have at their disposal. I’m sure migrants want an efficient free NHS as much as you do - I’ll tell you who doesn’t, the current govt.
Where are “they” going to all move to then? The U.K. already has the lowest rates of corporation tax in the G7 and lower than almost all OECD countries
How easy do you think it is to actually move a major corporation to somewhere with lower taxes? Do you think investment bankers accustomed to living in Belgravia are going to up sticks and drag their families to Belize?
Corporation tax accounted for £57billion in tax receipts last year, in 2016/17 the difference between the tax paid and the tax due was £33bn (https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/). So would making people pay their taxes make a difference? Errrr, yeah, to the tune of over £33bn a year. You never know, we might be able to spend that alleviating some of the terrible strain caused by those EU migrants!
It’s turned into a discussion about tax and responsibility because you and a few others are hiding behind the line that EU migrants cause an insurmountable strain on roads (really?), hospitals and schools. You can’t seem to grasp that the strain is caused by the Government not improving those things with the money they have at their disposal. I’m sure migrants want an efficient free NHS as much as you do - I’ll tell you who doesn’t, the current govt.
You originally said billionaires who are individuals, but now take the argument to include corporations which is a totally different entity. If, and it's a big if, Corbyn and Co get into power and apply some of there fiscal policies then watch how many of these big corporations move headquarters or have their stock market dealings moved away from the LSE. This debate will never end because I don't think the EU is good for the UK and want to leave. You obviously think the EU is great, freedom of movement is a good idea and you think we should remain. Over 71 years I have developed my political views, which obviously differ from years. It's best if we agree to differ and leave it at that.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
You obviously think the EU is great, freedom of movement is a good idea and you think we should remain.
Please don’t presume to know what I think.
I’ll tell you exactly what I believe - everyone should pay their fair share in tax and the working class should recognise their real enemy instead of bullying easy targets. Simple as that.
I’ll tell you exactly what I believe - everyone should pay their fair share in tax and the working class should recognise their real enemy instead of bullying easy targets. Simple as that.
To be fair we all know what your thinking is because you have expressed it many times on here.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
You’ll (Ska, Maringer, Chrisblor) never convince the likes of Lew Chatterlies Lover with facts. Hopefully it’ll get through to other readers staying silent in this thread.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
You’ll (Ska, Maringer, Chrisblor) never convince the likes of Lew Chatterlies Lover with facts. Hopefully it’ll get through to other readers staying silent in this thread.
Selected facts, and do you really want to silence people who have opposing views to yours?
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Selected facts, and do you really want to silence people who have opposing views to yours?
It would seem so.
(Selected) facts galore.
We have not been arguing anything even remotely controversial. I defended Farage because as a leader of a national party he had a right to be heard. We've argued that unlimited immigration is damaging communities, and I think it was you who pointed out the obvious local example is Boston.
We have tried to express an opinion that Grimsby voted for Brexit and perhaps these particular posters are not in the majority despite their insistence that they are right and we are wrong. I have left it that the electorate will decide whether their (selected) facts trump voters own experiences in their daily lives.
Sometimes passions run high, sometimes we say things we regret, but this particular group of posters seem determined to close alternative opinions down; too many of their posts are derogatory and insulting and I get the impression they are used to pumping out their propaganda day and night.
Anybody can see I don't normally post in the non-football section and only got drawn into this by defending Farage and his right to have a say, and have since been painted as the devil incarnate and been called every name under the sun by these particular posters. It doesn't worry me because when needed I will give it back, but this complete inability to see that other people (probably the majority as we are about to find out) do not agree with them is alarming. It is like a right winger on the Guardian who is shouted down, or a left winger on the Guido Fawkes site being ridiculed.
This site is not for one side or the other though, certainly not one just for left wing idealogues; everybody should be able to have a say without being shouted down.
You can hold whatever opinions you like, but at least have the courage to stand by them and don’t try hide behind justifications that aren’t accurate.
If you don’t like foreigners in your towns, sharing your hospitals and using your roads, that’s your call, but saying that they’re a drain on resources is demonstrably untrue in any meaningful sense of the word.
You’ve not been shouted down, you’ve been pulled up.
You can hold whatever opinions you like, but at least have the courage to stand by them and don’t try hide behind justifications that aren’t accurate.
If you don’t like foreigners in your towns, sharing your hospitals and using your roads, that’s your call, but saying that they’re a drain on resources is demonstrably untrue in any meaningful sense of the word.
You’ve not been shouted down, you’ve been pulled up.
Believe it or not the government and local councils do long term planning,
If the population of a certain area is expecting to grow at a certain rate they plan ahead and put extra resources in to include the required extra demand. So when the extra demand is wanted the Schools , Surgeries and NHS would be able to cope.
If there is a huge influx like at Boston and Thetford which they have not planned for they will not cope.
Its nothing to do with racism just plain logic.
Let me ask you a question scar face if you was the head of a school that had 20 places available for new pupils but 50 EU pupils wanted to go to your school how would you cope what would you do about the problem.?
If we knew what numbers where coming in year on year we could do something about it but when you have no idea of the numbers coming how can you organise the required demand.?
Mr Corbyn's magic money tree would just build a new school overnight but what would you do. ?
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
If you get an influx if immigrants into an area, funding should increase to help the local council deal with their health care, schooling of their children etc. It would be both the sensible and obvious thing to do. Surely we can all agree on this?
However, with the current funding model, the councils get nothing so resources are strained. Central government has been happily accepting the taxes that the immigrants pay doing vital jobs in the community where they live at the same time that they have been cutting the block grants to councils. Telling them, basically, do more with less and, if you can't, it's not our problem.
This is NOT the fault of the immigrants, it is the fault of the cynical fornicators in power in Westminster since 2010 who hate government because they, bizarrely, believe that private business can do everything better, despite the vast (and we are talking flipping vast here) amount of evidence to the contrary.
Said cynical fornicators are, of course being very well rewarded for their views through directorships and other sinecures whilst the immigrants get the stick from those tugging their forelocks to their masters in London.
I realise it's pointless arguing here as people in this thread have, quite seriously criticised me for stating facts they disagree with! However, I'm just trying to point out the actual lie of the land. It's nothing particularly perceptive or secret. The information is clear and is out there, easily available for public consumption, but a large chunk of the population just aren't interested in understanding it. The right-wing media certainly isn't going to point it out and you can obviously lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
The mind boggles how many working class people are going to be fooled into voting Tory in just a few weeks, despite their appalling record in office since 2010. Either the coalition of the Tories since 2015 could easily have cut immigration if they had wanted to, both from outside and inside the EU, but they didn't because we are so reliant on it. Rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water and leaving the EU, it would have made so much more sense to curtail immigration first, but we just weren't willing to do so. Mostly because it would have meant investing in our own economy, education, training and the like and they were ideologically intent on reducing the size of the state.
The Labour party held an election address at Southampton FC. Shocking. Outrageous. A disgrace to democracy. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
I think that is Blackpool FC and Southampton that have had the temerity to hold election meetings for a political party. Boo.
Nope, I still don't agree with it, but it's Southampton's problem in this case so their choice. Perhaps it's a Chinese plot to destabilise our democracy, or is it just the Russians who do that?
Did he hold up a Southampton shirt with his name on the back? If so, I'd imagine that right-wing Southampton fans would be quite rightly furious. Let's see some pics.
The last time I looked at this thread it was less than 10 pages long.
I may be repeating a point already made but for me when people concede that we do need some immigration (thank the Lord for that) but qualify it by saying that it needs to be skilled we appear to have moved away from the reality that many, many of the manual jobs, especially in the big cities are done by immigrants. If we cut back on immigration through an Australian style system then who exactly will do these jobs?.We are led to believe that unemployment is at its lowest for years so as E.U. leave and are not replaced who will pick up the reins? Please don't pin it on the lazy unemployed because the reality is that we are not far off the situation where the bulk of those left on the register are unemployable. Anyone claiming otherwise needs to consider whether if they were an employer they would employ the individuals concerned. This idea that people come to leech off our seen as massively generous benefit system is so archaic as to be utterly risible. Just a small example but last night I got talking to a taxi driver who picked me up from Town station. Turns out he has a degree in petroleum engineering. He lost his job here but recognised that he needed to improve his skills in recognition of the fact that that industry is contracting so he enrolled in a distance learning masters course through Aberdeen uni and is paying for it through taxi-ing.
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
The last time I looked at this thread it was less than 10 pages long.
I may be repeating a point already made but for me when people concede that we do need some immigration (thank the Lord for that) but qualify it by saying that it needs to be skilled we appear to have moved away from the reality that many, many of the manual jobs, especially in the big cities are done by immigrants.
This moving away from reality is exactly the same over here in Malta in regards to manual jobs.
The economy here is built on tourism and the development industry. Both of which employ a large amount immigrants. A significant proportion of Maltese that I know are pretty open in their anti migrant sentiment with me despite the fact that I myself am of course one.
Without these people coming and working in the industries the Maltese do not want to Malta would be a third world back water basically.
What is interesting to me is how the increasing migrant population seems to have created this self-entitled attitude among the Maltese that it is now beneath them to work in many industries.
Absolutely not after all in the Third World government corruption at a high level is rife and journalists get killed by car bombs.....oh hang on ...
Cannot argue with you there. Politicians over here deem it as their right to pillage what little public funds are available. Its all OK though as the EU keeps funding various projects around the Island which they can then use to convince the sheep here that all is well.
Interestingly Malta has a history of car bombings or other similar devices being used in attacks on various people not just journalists. There have been 19 such instances since 2010 including the one which killed Mrs Caruana Galizia!
It is also just about the only place on earth which allows the annual shooting of protected species of birds at no consequence. Quite the paradise it is over here really.
Perhaps I am just in denial about living in a third world country after all!
I see Sir Keir Starmer held a rally at Accrington Stanley FC. Held a shirt aloft with his name on it. Reminds me of something closer to home.
I haven't seen any hysterical condemnation from anybody on here that he used a football club for political ends.
Didn’t know about that. Was it reported on GTFC related sites or the national media? Otherwise most of us wouldn’t have seen it.
For the record, this shouldn’t happen regardless of the political party. I know some clubs are desperate for the money but it’s a bad move.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
I see Sir Keir Starmer held a rally at Accrington Stanley FC. Held a shirt aloft with his name on it. Reminds me of something closer to home.
I haven't seen any hysterical condemnation from anybody on here that he used a football club for political ends.
Hadn't seen it but 100% football clubs should not be associating with political parties. He could have come to Town and I would have said the same. Still, you'll allow your confirmation bias to help you come to the conclusion that people were only bothered because it was Farage and wouldn't have minded Corbyn doing it rather than the same people genuinely holding the opinion that an organisation who's fanbase/customer base spans the whole political spectrum should not be seen to pick sides. You're completely wrong of course but you've never let that stop you before.
Hadn't seen it but 100% football clubs should not be associating with political parties. He could have come to Town and I would have said the same. Still, you'll allow your confirmation bias to help you come to the conclusion that people were only bothered because it was Farage and wouldn't have minded Corbyn doing it rather than the same people genuinely holding the opinion that an organisation who's fanbase/customer base spans the whole political spectrum should not be seen to pick sides. You're completely wrong of course but you've never let that stop you before.
Your wrong, if anyone wants to rent a venue at a football ground who the hell are you to say that club can't generate much needed income by renting a room or two out to them. Also any press coverage is free, and you can't beat free publicity.
Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.
Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
Your wrong, if anyone wants to rent a venue at a football ground who the hell are you to say that club can't generate much needed income by renting a room or two out to them. Also any press coverage is free, and you can't beat free publicity.
Because, it is divisive. It is a short term gain but a longer term loss. Let’s say Fenty had taken Jezza’s money. Would you be happy? No you wouldn’t.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
The clubs policy is to hire out their conference facilities to any legal and above board organisation including political parties.
How is that divisive?
Are you hard of thinking?
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Sorry I shouldn’t mock the afflicted. But d you not think the argument we’ve been having over this divisive? Do you think this has made some people more or less inclined to spend money on GTFC? Apart from you Brexiteers I mean?
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
2 Sorry I shouldn’t mock the afflicted. But d you not think the argument we’ve been having over this divisive? Do you think this has made some people more or less inclined to spend money on GTFC? Apart from you Brexiteers I mean?
You think by opening up the conference facilities to bona fide organisations makes people less inclined to spend money on GTFC?
I think you are confusing a handful of people arguing on this forum over politics with the 99% of fans who couldn't care less as long as the club make a few Bob hiring their facilities out.
You think by opening up the conference facilities to bona fide organisations makes people less inclined to spend money on GTFC?
I think you are confusing a handful of people arguing on this forum over politics with the 99% of fans who couldn't care less as long as the club make a few Bob hiring their facilities out.
What part of ‘the argument going on for the past couple of months’ being divisive don’t you understand? I’m sorry this is a bit complex for you but try thinking about it.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
What part of ‘the argument going on for the past couple of months’ being divisive don’t you understand? I’m sorry this is a bit complex for you but try thinking about it.
It has been "divisive " on one thread on here involving about a dozen posters.
My point is that the wider fan base will not care either way as long as the facilities are available to all organisations.
I would not be as condescending as you, but I also cannot get why you cannot understand that.
Perhaps you are like Labour supporters on Twitter who convinced themselves they would win the election whereas the public had completely the opposite view!
This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.
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