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Ipswin
March 28, 2019, 6:24pm
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Quoted from Maringer




My view would be that, with the failure of the government to produce a deal which can be agreed, parliament should have indicative votes comes up with a deal of whatever sort (apart from an idiotic 'No deal' or one based on Unicorns and rainbows which will never be agreed). This should then get put to a vote by the people who would then at least know what they are voting for. As I've said in the past, a multiple-choice transferrable vote referendum would be the best option, providing the weighting was fair.

If the public then still want us to leave, then so be it. It's not as if we haven't been warned.

Around 2 million voters who were too young to have a say back in 2016 have now reached voting age so you must surely agree that they be allowed to express their opinion because it must count more than the similar number who have died since then? They will be the ones living with the decision, after all. The opinions of the dead don't matter, because they don't have any.


This



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Grim74
March 28, 2019, 11:39pm
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Quoted from Maringer


Nah - May's deal would lead to Brexit as well. If May wasn't so reliant on the DUP, it would have sailed through long ago. The backstop would only apply if a sensible agreement wasn't made and both sides want to have one so that's just a red herring. The ERGers are just attempting to use the DUP as an excuse to get the damaging hard Brexit they desire either for inane ideological reasons or self-serving interest. Lots of money to be made for those with it already. Let's not forget that the economic model they want to follow happily throws our agricultural sector under the bus. For instance, a hard Brexit would lead to a mass cull of lambs (reportedly up to 10 million) due to the WTO export tarriffs we'd have to apply. I'd imagine this would put many sheep farmers out of business in one fell swoop. Only people with absolutely no understanding of the problems (or an ulterior motive) want a hard Brexit. It's noticeable that many of the most avid supporters of a hard Brexit (fuckwits such as Fox) are the ones who claimed countries would be queueing up to make deals with us, and they haven't. Something which betrays a lack of understanding of how trade deals actually work which is a pity as these were the idiots trying to arrange them.


The Government has confirmed it will match all subsidies and cover any shortfall in revenue for at least the next two years! In that time do you think the French and Irish farmers would just sit there and allow the tariffs to cripple their UK exports? A third of all sheep meat imported? No me neither a deal will be had which is why we should have just left by now on short term on WTO terms and wait for our old masters to beg us for a deal.

Quoted Text
And no, we aren't a puppet state because we helped to make the decisions and draft the EU regulations in the first place. It's how the EU works.


Don’t make me laugh every time we opposed a new regulation or law they just ignored us we lost more decisions than any other member state the union is nothing more than a mafia. If you don’t believe we’re a puppet state now then how can you ignore what our EU masters have planned MORE EUROPE MORE EUROPE openly spouted from the likes of the drunk Junker and his cretins Macron and verhofstwat

Quoted Text
My view would be that, with the failure of the government to produce a deal which can be agreed, parliament should have indicative votes comes up with a deal of whatever sort (apart from an idiotic 'No deal' or one based on Unicorns and rainbows which will never be agreed). This should then get put to a vote by the people who would then at least know what they are voting for. As I've said in the past, a multiple-choice transferrable vote referendum would be the best option, providing the weighting was fair.


Bollox to that we have already voted and no deal is still the legal default and the majority of Brexiteers (the winners who count) have hardened if anything to a no deal. Not interested in what remainers want or their silly little march of middle class snobs they lost shut up dummy’s back in.


Quoted Text
Around 2 million voters who were too young to have a say back in 2016 have now reached voting age so you must surely agree that they be allowed to express their opinion because it must count more than the similar number who have died since then? They will be the ones living with the decision, after all. The opinions of the dead don't matter, because they don't have any.


I can’t believe you of all people have dragged this sorry argument up FFS
so if you were to lose the vote again would you wait then in another 2 years becry all now 18 year olds who missed out? You’re talking absolute bollox again.
Or have you done your maths and morbidly thought a lot of old people who voted would be dead now, so with the new breed of indoctrinated young ones we will definetly win this time eh?

Only thing is in the days of record employment many young remainers from 2016 under the trance of socialism have now grown up got a job and paying and their taxes, they don’t identify with Labour or the Lib Dem’s anymore they now understand true conservative values low tax, minimal state interference, freedom, traditionism, unionism, welfare state for those in need etc, and when I say conservative I mean real conservatism not the shower of shite that’s in office.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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Grim74
March 29, 2019, 7:39am
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MElaine Onn talking a lot of sense in the telegraph today, surprisingly a woman of principle and refreshing to see no matter which side of the divide. Well done Melanie.


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Ipswin
March 29, 2019, 9:08am
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Quoted from Grim74


The Government has confirmed it will match all subsidies and cover any shortfall in revenue for at least the next two years! In that time do you think the French and Irish farmers would just sit there and allow the tariffs to cripple their UK exports? A third of all sheep meat imported? No me neither a deal will be had which is why we should have just left by now on short term on WTO terms and wait for our old masters to beg us for a deal.



Don’t make me laugh every time we opposed a new regulation or law they just ignored us we lost more decisions than any other member state the union is nothing more than a mafia. If you don’t believe we’re a puppet state now then how can you ignore what our EU masters have planned MORE EUROPE MORE EUROPE openly spouted from the likes of the drunk Junker and his cretins Macron and verhofstwat



Bollox to that we have already voted and no deal is still the legal default and the majority of Brexiteers (the winners who count) have hardened if anything to a no deal. Not interested in what remainers want or their silly little march of middle class snobs they lost shut up dummy’s back in.




I can’t believe you of all people have dragged this sorry argument up FFS
so if you were to lose the vote again would you wait then in another 2 years becry all now 18 year olds who missed out? You’re talking absolute bollox again.
Or have you done your maths and morbidly thought a lot of old people who voted would be dead now, so with the new breed of indoctrinated young ones we will definetly win this time eh?

Only thing is in the days of record employment many young remainers from 2016 under the trance of socialism have now grown up got a job and paying and their taxes, they don’t identify with Labour or the Lib Dem’s anymore they now understand true conservative values low tax, minimal state interference, freedom, traditionism, unionism, welfare state for those in need etc, and when I say conservative I mean real conservatism not the shower of shite that’s in office.



The problem with referendums and elections is that idiots like you have the vote


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Grim74
March 29, 2019, 10:44am
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Quoted from Ipswin



The problem with referendums and elections is that idiots like you have the vote


Well that was intelligent😂

Rather than sounding like a fascist why not try and have the decency to debate.


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Ipswin
March 29, 2019, 11:26am
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Quoted from Grim74


Well that was intelligent😂

Rather than sounding like a fascist why not try and have the decency to debate.


What's to debate? I disagree with absolutely every point you have made. Also I would have thought that the performance of MPs from all parties has already shown how pointless debating is on this issue which is why the people should be asked a second time.

I fail to see why all the Brexit idiots are shitting themselves and the government keep bleating on about how it would be undemocratic to have a second vote. Firstly at least everyone would know what they were voting for and what the implications could be and secondly I fear the majority for leaving would be even greater as people are totally drunk off with the whole debacle

The best thing about a second vote would be that (hopefully) more would vote so that the majority (either way) would represent a greater percentage of the population and the result would therefore have more credibility than the first farce



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GrimRob
March 29, 2019, 11:35am

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Quoted from Ipswin


What's to debate? I disagree with absolutely every point you have made. Also I would have thought that the performance of MPs from all parties has already shown how pointless debating is on this issue which is why the people should be asked a second time.

I fail to see why all the Brexit idiots are shitting themselves and the government keep bleating on about how it would be undemocratic to have a second vote. Firstly at least everyone would know what they were voting for and what the implications could be and secondly I fear the majority for leaving would be even greater as people are totally drunk off with the whole debacle

The best thing about a second vote would be that (hopefully) more would vote so that the majority (either way) would represent a greater percentage of the population and the result would therefore have more credibility than the first farce



Would we know what we are voting for? Leave is still as murky as it ever was, the debate has barely progressed beyond the Backstop. I downloaded the draft agreement but there's a massive amount of detail still undecided, which is the most important thing to our daily lives. If there is going to another confirmation referendum it surely has to be on the final deal, not the half-baked thing which TM cannot even get through parliament. If we have a referendum now it has to be on whether to progress to the next stage, there should be a third one after that when there is a final deal with all the details provided. I actually think there is a lot more important things for parliament to do over the next 5 years than rewrite the rules which we already have so I will always vote for the status quo.


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Ipswin
March 29, 2019, 11:40am
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Quoted from GrimRob


Would we know what we are voting for? Leave is still as murky as it ever was, the debate has barely progressed beyond the Backstop. I downloaded the draft agreement but there's a massive amount of detail still undecided, which is the most important thing to our daily lives. If there is going to another confirmation referendum it surely has to be on the final deal, not the half-baked thing which TM cannot even get through parliament. If we have a referendum now it has to be on whether to progress to the next stage, there should be a third one after that when there is a final deal with all the details provided. I actually think there is a lot more important things for parliament to do over the next 5 years than rewrite the rules which we already have so I will always vote for the status quo.


I actually meant a vote on the final deal but even if we voted again now at least we would know that the £350M for the NHS and an end to immigration was a load of lies and total balderdash designed to lure in the elderly and ill informed to vote leave



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Maringer
March 29, 2019, 1:56pm
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Quoted from GrimRob


Would we know what we are voting for? Leave is still as murky as it ever was, the debate has barely progressed beyond the Backstop.


The fundamentals would be decided i.e. out of the single market, out of the customs union. Which would be excrement, obviously, but that's the basics. Anything else is just tinkering around the edges - we'll try to strike a trade deal where nothing changes for us and won't get it because we'll be a much smaller fish in a bigger pond. The new trade deals with bigger countries such as the US, India, China will flood our markets with certain cheap goods to the detriment of our local businesses. If our agriculture sector isn't badly hit, I'll be surprised. The pound will devalue so other imports will become more expensive and we just don't manufacture enough to be successful exporters and benefit from the devaluation. Thanks for that, Maggie.

The EU is the wealthiest and most successful trading bloc and membership of it means a lot. It's why all the East European countries are desperate to join and the rest of the world think we're such idiots to want to leave.

Assuming we do leave the EU, I can only imagine how some will react to the greater influx of immigrants from outside of Europe that we need to support our economy with its aging population. I'd imagine some will realise they were sold a pup but no doubt some other scapegoats will be found. It'll be the fault of those perfidious foreigners one way or another.
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Maringer
March 29, 2019, 2:57pm
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And so it continues...
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