Artell Out  (triple merged)

Quoted from Brummie Codfather

Let’s just pull the names out of a hat then - no point thinking about it.

Honestly this bashing of data is infuriating and getting pretty boring.  I know it’s a newer approach to doing things in football but all the successful teams do it and if Town don’t try and keep up as best you can within our resources we get left behind.  All the data led approach really means is thinking more about what you’re doing and using more available evidence.  I don’t understand how this is suddenly the coming of the bloody Antichrist to some people on this forum.

All the successful teams might do it but if every team is  doing it then so are the excrement ones.

So far our data led approach had got us to equal 3rd on points from the bottom of the Football League.

Frig knows how Alan Buckley managed to be successful by using the archaic method of sending out scouts and actually going to see players in action.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Is it? Do we sign a lot of players without meeting them? Checking they’re compatible, like the look of us etc etc after the data’s led us to have these conversations..

All the relegated clubs this season will be inundated with data. They will have it coming out of their ears.

All the PL teams have the best data money can buy but 3 will still go down. Lots of clubs in league 2 will have the data, the analysts and all will be convinced it is the way forward.

It isn't. What you need is a decent manager,  a way of playing and enough money to attract the players.

I don't have an issue with using data as a recruitment tool. If you have a player you want with specific strengths it can help you draw up a shortlist and then watch videos and watch the most promising in person. A lot of the guys we sign though have played so few first-team games I doubt there is much data for them.

I also think in games using data to compare tactics (e.g. short corners or long corners, best free-kick takers) with the squad you have makes sense. This is specific to each team and depends on the squad.

Our problem is we're changing everything at once and decided the long-term plan has to take place immediately. We should have established a baseline with the players we had and gradually recruited, aiming to slowly improve the team. Every time we add or remove a player it changes the team dynamic so we need to regularly reevaluate and be prepared to change our strategy as our squad evolves.

We have unilaterally decided a high-possession game is the way to go (based upon the sentiment that it is the "Grimsby Way") and decided to transition to that overnight with the players we already have. As far as I can tell we have not attempted to decide if it is even feasible to acquire a squad which can play the way we want, it has been taken on faith that we can. Despite the constraint that many of the squad are contracted for 2-3 years (based upon the "old" long-term plan).

The small matter of avoiding relegation has been brushed aside ("I don't think we will go down") in the hurry to reach the moon tomorrow.

If it all ends in tears I don't think we can blame data because our entire approach largely bypasses data.

Quoted from GrimRob

I don't have an issue with using data as a recruitment tool. If you have a player you want with specific strengths it can help you draw up a shortlist and then watch videos and watch the most promising in person. A lot of the guys we sign though have played so few first-team games I doubt there is much data for them.

I also think in games using data to compare tactics (e.g. short corners or long corners, best free-kick takers) with the squad you have makes sense. This is specific to each team and depends on the squad.

Our problem is we're changing everything at once and decided the long-term plan has to take place immediately. We should have established a baseline with the players we had and gradually recruited, aiming to slowly improve the team. Every time we add or remove a player it changes the team dynamic so we need to regularly reevaluate and be prepared to change our strategy as our squad evolves.

We have unilaterally decided a high-possession game is the way to go (based upon the sentiment that it is the "Grimsby Way") and decided to transition to that overnight with the players we already have. As far as I can tell we have not attempted to decide if it is even feasible to acquire a squad which can play the way we want, it has been taken on faith that we can. Despite the constraint that many of the squad are contracted for 2-3 years (based upon the "old" long-term plan).

The small matter of avoiding relegation has been brushed aside ("I don't think we will go down") in the hurry to reach the moon tomorrow.

If it all ends in tears I don't think we can blame data because our entire approach largely bypasses data.

We need to guarantee points for survival (sic) first,  and once achieved, then let’s put the next stage into motion and seeing how we best adapt to what we are fundamentally trying to achieve and create this gameplay/style that JS, AP and DA want us to play.

As fans, of course we want to see free flowing attacking football and knocking goals in left right and centre, but unfortunately we are nowhere near that position and haven’t been for 20+ years. We were, possibly still are, a club that is in the doldrums and we have that awful feeling of lightning striking for the 3rd time and the trap door opening to non-league football yet again. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

I personally trust in DA, and believe that the performances and results will come. But, the players have to have confidence and belief in him and his ideas.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that we were losing almost every week before he came in and tried to change it. I'm not including the draws with sutton or forest green in that as they were hardly anything to get excited about.

Yesterday was one of the worst performances for a very long time though, can see why DA wasn't very talkative.

Some big games coming up in the next month or so. We could do with Donny beating Sutton but seems unlikely. Might have to beat a couple of the teams around us ourselves.

Quoted from CSLM

Everyone seems to have forgotten that we were losing almost every week before he came in and tried to change it. I'm not including the draws with sutton or forest green in that as they were hardly anything to get excited about.

Yesterday was one of the worst performances for a very long time though, can see why DA wasn't very talkative.

Some big games coming up in the next month or so. We could do with Donny beating Sutton but seems unlikely. Might have to beat a couple of the teams around us ourselves.

Colchester , Donny , Sutton and FG all to come within the next 6 weeks I think it's fair to say that will decide whether we are in the mix to get relegated - win and draw a couple of those and it should be enough to be relatively close to safety - anything from the next 2 games is a bonus IMO .

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

We need to guarantee points for survival (sic) first,  and once achieved, then let’s put the next stage into motion and seeing how we best adapt to what we are fundamentally trying to achieve and create this gameplay/style that JS, AP and DA want us to play.

As fans, of course we want to see free flowing attacking football and knocking goals in left right and centre, but unfortunately we are nowhere near that position and haven’t been for 20+ years. We were, possibly still are, a club that is in the doldrums and we have that awful feeling of lightning striking for the 3rd time and the trap door opening to non-league football yet again. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

I personally trust in DA, and believe that the performances and results will come. But, the players have to have confidence and belief in him and his ideas.

Trusting in DA from afar mate .Saturday had alarm bells ringing and most seasoned watchers are worried and rightly so.Weve been here before those players have either downed tools OR have no clue what they are supposed to be doing on the pitch. Of course it could just be a blip and I'm praying 🙏 that's the case.They had 2 weeks to work on defending as a team and they'll have known it was unlikely Conteh would be playing so in effect one change required to the team that played Notts. Now if with 2 weeks preparation you end up with 90 minutes like that were deep in trouble because Tranmere sat one place above us.Stockport and Wrexham will come here and destroy this team it's probably wise to stick a few quid on both hitting 5 or more goals.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Frig knows how Alan Buckley managed to be successful by using the archaic method of sending out scouts and actually going to see players in action.

He probably looked at the data available to him at the time mate.  I want a striker, who’s scoring goals that I can afford - let’s scout them.  
It won’t be any different really to the “data led approach” being decried now, apart from we have a specific analyst and look at more data points.
Of course you still send scouts but you need to whittle down who you’re going to look at & that’s where the data comes in.

Quoted from CSLM

Everyone seems to have forgotten that we were losing almost every week before he came in and tried to change it. I'm not including the draws with sutton or forest green in that as they were hardly anything to get excited about..

Write down all the games we were spanked in and most of them will fall in the DA era. We had many of the hardest games at the start of the season but when we lost it was usually by a narrow margin. The run of defeats that ended with PH being sacked were all narrow losses. The caretaker team tweaked the PH approach and my gut feel is we'd have more points now than we do, and probably a happier dressing room, had we continued down that route. Of course we will never know and they certainly spent a lot of time looking at DA even though he was the first person on the list.

Quoted from MaccasBoots

The RH interview is a weird one, but I wouldn't say that Artell is at fault for that. Matt Dean asked some very odd questions, which almost seemed like he was trying to rile him up. Essentially asked him to tear into Glennon in particular, Artell obviously refused, then asked again. Bizarre.

Agreed that Dean seemed to be going for Glennon. I think the reaction to the interview in geneal is a bit of a case of a mountain being made out of a molehill as well though. I don't think Artell answered anything badly. He admitted fault lies with both himself and the players. Fairly standard defeat interviews for me.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Gosh. Knee jerk. I supported Hurst to the end and I'm the one to chip in?

Previously, Mullarkey got shredded, and we lost our DM. He had either Green or Clifton to go in at DM. He chose Harry on the wing to offer cover for Mullarkey who certainly needs it. Both choices were correct IMHO. Gav has about 4/5 matches I've seen highlights with him casually strolling back and getting caught out with goals scored. He's good going forward,  but he's battling against Andrews, Hunt and Wood. Wood needs a shot and Andrews pass rate is a lot better than Holahan if I remember correctly.

Result sucks, but choices are limited. I would have personally gone with Maher over Rodgers but would it have made a difference?

We need a RB to replace Efete, and that isn't helping. We need a LB to offer competition for Glennon. We don't really have that. None of these are Artel's fault, it is the same hand anyone would play with and it isn't easy.

He started well and everyone assumed this was an easy job. Nope. We have serious squad problems and you only have super glue to patch up in Jan.

I get it's easy to complain and blame, but that's just for coping. It doesn't solved our problems.

Good post. I get the knee jerk reaction though and I think we're in more trouble than we all thought we would be.

The full backs are obviously getting a lot of attention and rightly so as we're getting spanked down the flanks consistently.

The midfield though is as big a problem for me. Artell talked about people not knowing their roles and he must be talking at least partly of the midfield here as they looked clueless again on Saturday. All of our midfielders either excel at nothing or just one thing. The only one we had with multiple strings to their bow was Conteh. Switching him out for Green and expecting to continue playing with the same system is completely on Artell (if that was even the plan, I'm not sure if it was as it was such a horrible blob of a system on Saturday it was impossible to tell), however discounting that element of responsibility, it's hard to see anything other than a few curtain calls for Green before his time with us is inevitably over. His ceiling is clearly National League level, too limited a player in League Two. Tranmere bullied us in the middle of the park on Saturday and if that's being allowed to happen, just what is he bringing to the table?

Then we've got Alex Hunt...have I missed something here, is he injured? I don't remember hearing that but he's disappeared off the radar again despite Artell saying he would have a pivotal role going forward. That aside, he fluctuates between the sublime (MK Dons and Crewe matches) and the utterly forgettable (every other performance he's put in under Artell). The benefits of having an in form Hunt in the side are massive but he's a risky pick every time as you just don't know if he's gonna be in the match.

Holohan is clearly not fancied by Artell despite being our most experienced midfielder. He's far from the perfect midfielder at this level and I think his time here is also probably done but his lack of game time under Artell when stacked up against the other options is unfathomable really.

The Clifton chat has been done to death on here umpteen times so let's not dwell on that, I think despite what your opinion is on him we can all agree that his versatility is a big draw and that given the current state of midfield options, he is a nailed on starter.

Jamie Andrews...he's just a but meh, isn't he? Has little spells of matches when he looks alright but then you forget he's on the pitch for 20 minutes until he gives the ball away. He reminds me a bit of someone like Ben Burgess when we brought him in a few seasons ago. He's in the team, but I'm not really sure what his role is.

Early days for Harry Wood, so a bit harsh to pass judgement on him after that performance.

All in all, it's an uninspiring selection of midfielders, especially when you consider that three of these six are playing every week.

Regarding Artell Out, it's definitely not something that should even be considered right now. However, if the unthinkable were to happen and we went down to the NL again then he has to go as there's no way we have the resources to recruit the players he'd want to play his style of football down there.