Should England take the knee.?

I reckon that if I had to take the knee I wouldn’t get up again

Quoted from DB

I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't know if the players are plainly making the choice, or not.

Pretty clear it’s a collective decision in conjunction with the players.

Any other reason we cannot all just let a group of individuals make a simple and sincere stance against racism?

Personally Iam in support of players taking the knee . What I would add though is I don't buy into all this political holier than thou though in that Iam better than you as Iam of left persuasion and your right or vice versa. Good and bad on both sides as noted if taken to the extreme. Just last week for instance there was physical attacks by left wing extremists on a Catholic  church procession in France . Likewise there has been attacks by right wing extremists also on churches. Hopefully in the future people can come together and work for the good of the whole.

Quoted from Vance Warner

So despite the manager coming out and stating that is a collective decision you still don’t believe that it’s the choice of all individuals. Assumedly you have some pretty concrete evidence  for this assumption as surely it would be ridiculous to boo all players taking the knee on the off chance one didn’t want to. Might be time to reflect on whether there are any other reasons why you’re uncomfortable with it.

Firstly I have never said I am not comfortable with taking the knee so why did you put this lie in your post? So please reread what I wrote.

Secondly, I was making a point about the wording:-

If the players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then they should be allowed to.

Nobody knows what Southgate meant by 'collective' decision and how many were in favour and how many weren't if any!

When players in many league games chose not to take the knee anymore, as witnessed on tv etc., then you have to ask the question of why nobody in the national team doesn't want to stop. It seems very unusual that around 30 players, management are all in agreement.

I won't be booing on Sunday when I am in the stadium it's up to the individual Player supporter etc what he feels  HE WANTS to do. If the guy next to me boos  its up to him it's his choice

Quoted from darren9

I haven’t criticised? I’ve just said that the players being forced into it reflects your belief system, perhaps the use of the word ‘system’ was misplaced. But I don’t really know what you believe. I suspect you’re pro-boo and anti-taking the knee. A stance I disagree with hence entering into this debate.

You made the statement, a lie, that it reflects my belief system. This statement by you has no substance and you retract it by saying you don't know what I believe. At least that is correct.

Having said you don't know what I believe you then come out with more supposition and lies. If you had one bit of brain in your body you would realise from my many previous posts that I fully support democracy, freedom of speech, and personal choice; regardless of whether I agree or not a post.

So please stop making up lies about what I believe in and stick to facts that can be checked.

Quoted from DB

You made the statement, a lie, that it reflects my belief system. This statement by you has no substance and you retract it by saying you don't know what I believe. At least that is correct.

Having said you don't know what I believe you then come out with more supposition and lies. If you had one bit of brain in your body you would realise from my many previous posts that I fully support democracy, freedom of speech, and personal choice; regardless of whether I agree or not a post.

So please stop making up lies about what I believe in and stick to facts that can be checked.

We’re all supposing aren’t we? It’s what a forum is for. I appear to have upset you - it wasn’t my intention and if I have I’m
sorry.  

We appear to be on opposing sides of the debate but the debate should be civilised. If I have crossed a line then again, I apologise.

Really in two minds over this. I personally don’t have objections to them taking the knee, but in reality, what has it achieved? If anything, at the moment it’s becoming a very divisive action to do before a game and the booing could potentially affect the team/player’s performance during the match.

Do we really want to go into an important tournament, a tournament in which England stand a good chance of doing well in with fans booing the team just before kick off? With Southgate even coming out and saying they’ll continue to do it, even with the players continuing to take the knee it just gives the dissenters more ammunition to continue booing. It’s this kind of “us and them” mentality from both sides and this kind of unnecessary distraction which means that unfortunately i feel taking the knee must stop for the time being.

Quoted from LH

So your opinion is that football is for white working class people only? The World Cup would be pretty excrement if only the white British working class could take part. That’s before we get onto teams representing a demographic of the area they represent. We’d be even more excrement than we currently are.

How on earth did you get to be a moderator when you cannot read properly? You totally misinterpret and/or misunderstand my post. It simply is not worth getting into an argument with someone so incapable of understanding the written word.

Quoted from DocDock

Really in two minds over this. I personally don’t have objections to them taking the knee, but in reality, what has it achieved? If anything, at the moment it’s becoming a very divisive action to do before a game and the booing could potentially affect the team/player’s performance during the match.

Do we really want to go into an important tournament, a tournament in which England stand a good chance of doing well in with fans booing the team just before kick off? With Southgate even coming out and saying they’ll continue to do it, even with the players continuing to take the knee it just gives the dissenters more ammunition to continue booing. It’s this kind of “us and them” mentality from both sides and this kind of unnecessary distraction which means that unfortunately i feel taking the knee must stop for the time being.

Barney Ronay:

First, the booing. Nothing was solved here despite Southgate’s own, very clear and respectful call for kindness. It will be there again at Wembley.

What to do with this now? There are issues with knee-taking. Nobody has to agree with anyone else about anything. You might feel this is not necessary, or believe that discrimination is overplayed, or – who knows – a good thing. You might feel there is something odd in football as an industry preaching about inequality, or men who earn 350 times the national wage in a country where people go hungry. These are points for discussion.

But the public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous.

It is worth remembering in the middle of all this that football is just an amplification of what is out there. If there are racists, boneheads and people without compassion at England football matches, this is because these people exist in England. The harm they do is not confined to, contained by, or even that relevant to football. Football has to live with it, because no other physical human activity offers this soapbox, this visible theatre of hate.

And in reality the people who need to answer for this level of dissonance and rage are those in power: governments of the past 20 years; a sickly strain in the British media; and all those diffuse clumps of intolerance and ignorance wherever they may be found.