Should England take the knee.?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Have you tried a cricket forum?  

As it happens I for one am delighted the PM and Culture secretary have come out in support of Ollie Robinson. Trying to disrupt his career about tweets sent when he was a teenager is way over the top. He has given a full apology and that should be the end of the matter.

Well that’s a surprise, it’s not like the PM has a catalogue of racist and sexist in his past

The terraces are a totaly different place now from when I went to my first game in 1969 because of things like Kick racism out and other initiatives which 99.9% of fans support.
These things have brought fans together like nothing else.
I know if any on here ever see or hear any racism at a game would be straight in at who ever it was to sort them out.

BLM as can be see just by this one thread is divisive and a threat to not just football but to society as a whole.

BLM is a political self proclaimed Marxist organisation and that is why people boo not because they are racist.

Taking of the knee is an American thing began by Kaepernick not kneeling for the National Anthem, its not a British thing.
In this country taking a knee means to be subservient and I will never kneel for an organisation like BLM.

I’ve tried. But I can’t understand the debate.

If the players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then they should be allowed to.

The gesture itself I don’t see political to the extent that those frothing at the mouth to condemn it do. It plainly isn’t Marxist. Can you name me a single England footballer who has demonstrated Marxist views? The closest I can think of is Marcus Rashford but feeding kids isn’t exactly a pillar of Marxism or socialism, it’s just, holding the government to account and not being a complete bell-end isn’t it? I also struggle to believe that any of the England squad want to defund the police.

What is happening is that those against it are (deliberately in some cases) confusing a movement to create equality between races with the more militant black
Lives matter movement. Taking the knee does not endorse the political movement and is not in support of the views of that organisation. What the squad are protesting against is the imbalance between colours in our society. We can all claim that it doesn’t happen but the majority on here are white and we haven’t lived the experiences that some in the squad have. What’s more is that those against it are white, criticising those who have lived the experience when you have no idea what it’s like isn’t a good look is it?  It’s clear racism is still an issue in society and in football in general.

Football and in particular England doesn’t have a positive history with regards racism and any gesture which goes against this and shows a more progressive thought process has to be encouraged.

‘Kick it out’ or social media block outs or any other number of initiatives hasn’t worked. But this is something which allows the power to be given back to the players and the individuals.

Booing your team before a ball is kicked can’t help can it? On the eve of a major tournament is unbelievable. We, the fans like to think we’re the ‘12th man’ and we’ve seen how important fans are during the pandemic. Football has missed fans. But booing your own team before a game can only be counter productive.

I appreciate that the above comes from my own beliefs and my own experiences. But I’m in agreement with Gary Lineker “if you boo players for taking the knee, you’re part of the reason the players are taking the knee” and to me if you boo you’re identifying yourself as a racist.

Quoted from darren9

I’ve tried. But I can’t understand the debate.

If the players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then they should be allowed to.

The gesture itself I don’t see political to the extent that those frothing at the mouth to condemn it do. It plainly isn’t Marxist. Can you name me a single England footballer who has demonstrated Marxist views? The closest I can think of is Marcus Rashford but feeding kids isn’t exactly a pillar of Marxism or socialism, it’s just, holding the government to account and not being a complete bell-end isn’t it? I also struggle to believe that any of the England squad want to defund the police.

What is happening is that those against it are (deliberately in some cases) confusing a movement to create equality between races with the more militant black
Lives matter movement. Taking the knee does not endorse the political movement and is not in support of the views of that organisation. What the squad are protesting against is the imbalance between colours in our society. We can all claim that it doesn’t happen but the majority on here are white and we haven’t lived the experiences that some in the squad have. What’s more is that those against it are white, criticising those who have lived the experience when you have no idea what it’s like isn’t a good look is it?  It’s clear racism is still an issue in society and in football in general.

Football and in particular England doesn’t have a positive history with regards racism and any gesture which goes against this and shows a more progressive thought process has to be encouraged.

‘Kick it out’ or social media block outs or any other number of initiatives hasn’t worked. But this is something which allows the power to be given back to the players and the individuals.

Booing your team before a ball is kicked can’t help can it? On the eve of a major tournament is unbelievable. We, the fans like to think we’re the ‘12th man’ and we’ve seen how important fans are during the pandemic. Football has missed fans. But booing your own team before a game can only be counter productive.

I appreciate that the above comes from my own beliefs and my own experiences. But I’m in agreement with Gary Lineker “if you boo players for taking the knee, you’re part of the reason the players are taking the knee” and to me if you boo you’re identifying yourself as a racist.

I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't know if the players are plainly making the choice, or not.

Quoted from DB

I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't knowif the players are plainly making the choice, or not.

But you’ve decided some players have been forced into it because it fits your belief system?

I’ll modify my original point then …

The FA, Southgate, or Kane and senior players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then try should be allowed to.  

I’m sure if a particular player had an issue then they would be able to raise it in much the same way that James McClean is able to not wear a poppy without reprisals from the FA.

Quoted from DB

I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't know if the players are plainly making the choice, or not.

So despite the manager coming out and stating that is a collective decision you still don’t believe that it’s the choice of all individuals. Assumedly you have some pretty concrete evidence  for this assumption as surely it would be ridiculous to boo all players taking the knee on the off chance one didn’t want to. Might be time to reflect on whether there are any other reasons why you’re uncomfortable with it.

Quoted from darren9

But you’ve decided some players have been forced into it because it fits your belief system?

I’ll modify my original point then …

The FA, Southgate, or Kane and senior players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then try should be allowed to.  

I’m sure if a particular player had an issue then they would be able to raise it in much the same way that James McClean is able to not wear a poppy without reprisals from the FA.

So what exactly is my belief system that you criticise?

Jeez, I can't wait to have this same debate on here another 3 or 4 times over the course of the Euros.

Quoted from DB

So what exactly is my belief system that you criticise?

I haven’t criticised? I’ve just said that the players being forced into it reflects your belief system, perhaps the use of the word ‘system’ was misplaced. But I don’t really know what you believe. I suspect you’re pro-boo and anti-taking the knee. A stance I disagree with hence entering into this debate.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I am simply passing an opinion about the direction the game has taken. I find your comment objectionable. You seem to be just looking for trouble where none exists which for a moderator is pretty disgraceful.

So your opinion is that football is for white working class people only? The World Cup would be pretty excrement if only the white British working class could take part. That’s before we get onto teams representing a demographic of the area they represent. We’d be even more excrement than we currently are.