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Should England take the knee.?

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Yoda
June 6, 2021, 5:40pm
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Gareth Southgate has said its to counter the monkey chants.! What.!!!
Personally i don’t think they should as blm is against the family structure and defunding the police which is crazy.

I think it just creates issues.
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Jarmo.Is.God
June 6, 2021, 5:50pm

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It's a simple one for me, if you don't like it, fair enough.
But 'booing' isn't a great look.

Alot of players of all races have come out and said 'taking the knee' isn't doing anything, and it's degrading.

So you don't have to be a racist to not agree with it, but you also don't have to be a moron and boo it
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Rodley Mariner
June 6, 2021, 6:16pm
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I think it's pretty clear that Harry Kane and the England squad are spearheading a Marxist revolution and are also now apparently 'against the family structure'  😂

Or they are just saying you shouldn't be a racist and racists don't like it. One of the two anyway.
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AdamHaddock
June 6, 2021, 6:22pm

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Yes. If it hurts the feelings of the perpetually whingeing gammons then tough shite


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smokey111
June 6, 2021, 6:25pm
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Quoted from Rodley Mariner
I think it's pretty clear that Harry Kane and the England squad are spearheading a Marxist revolution and are also now apparently 'against the family structure'  😂

Or they are just saying you shouldn't be a racist and racists don't like it. One of the two anyway.


If you look closely at Luke Shaw's left thigh you will see a tattoo of Che Guevara. I also heard Jude Bellingham quoting Owen Jones on Radio 4 yesterday.


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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Fishy clapper
June 6, 2021, 6:35pm
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They should not be taking the knee.
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Manchester Mariner
June 6, 2021, 6:35pm

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Quoted from Rodley Mariner
I think it's pretty clear that Harry Kane and the England squad are spearheading a Marxist revolution and are also now apparently 'against the family structure'  😂



Yep. The country has clearly fallen into a marxist state what with it's democratically elected conservative government lead by that well known bolshy and all them ex bankers arguing for a workers revolution. It'll be like Venezuela soon and we'll all be wearing them little caps with a star on. All because of that knee taking.


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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HertsGTFC
June 6, 2021, 6:36pm

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If that’s what they believe in them yes of course.



"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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LH
June 6, 2021, 6:37pm

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If they do it long enough the racists might stop bothering with football altogether. A great result for all concerned.
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1mickylyons
June 6, 2021, 7:17pm
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The reason fans are booing is its politics in sport and they're sick of it. Besides which people are entitled to an opinion and if that opinion is against what the FA etc want tough titty Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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aldi_01
June 6, 2021, 7:26pm

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I mean if people are upset politics are in football then they must’ve had their head buried for a long time...

I don’t agree that our national anthem celebrates an unelected head of state, or that it doesn’t really celebrate the nation more a singular person but I don’t boo it.

Same as this, booing taking the knee is just childish and pointless...half the people booing would struggle to give a balanced reason as to why they are...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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WayneBurnettsJockstrap
June 6, 2021, 7:29pm

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Football has done its bit. Yes it was iconic when they first did it. They all stood (knelt) together, but when is enough enough? If the FA/UEFA/PFA don't take a pedestal and say that's that, then this could go on for years.
If the problem is with those who boo when the knee is taken (whether that can be construed as racism or not) , they are the problem, and should be dealt with within the grounds. Every ground has CCTV so culprits should be recognised and dealt with if need be.

Personally I think it should be stopped. There can be so many other ways to get the message across, whatever that message is now.

What's going to be the next reason that football will try to throw their weight behind? The regular spats between Israel and the Gaza strip? The ongoing problem in the Yemen? The persecution of white farmers in South Africa?

Football should be concerned with keeping its own house in order before sticking their fingers in various pies that they have no real reasoning to be concerned with.
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ska face
June 6, 2021, 7:36pm

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[Yet] another illuminating and fascinating thread on the subject which hasn’t been done to death on here with almost everyone involved showing their árse at some point over the last 18 months.
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Mikey_345
June 6, 2021, 7:44pm
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It’s been clearly explained it’s not in support of any organisation. It is an anti racist and equality stance. If that’s what they want to do, well done them.

If people want to boo that, it’s a free country, but you have to ask - why are they?

But don’t Give it the “we’re boing a Marxist organisation” you’ve been told quite clearly that isnt what it’s about.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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Rodley Mariner
June 6, 2021, 7:50pm
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Be interesting to see a Venn diagram of people saying we should keep politics out of football and people who would sing no surrender at an England game.
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DB
June 6, 2021, 7:53pm
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Quoted from ska face
[Yet] another illuminating and fascinating thread on the subject which hasn’t been done to death on here with almost everyone involved showing their árse at some point over the last 18 months.


It's amazing the thread was started way after the match started and players took the knee. A bit of an afterthought to get attention by someone!

As you say the subject has been well and truly debated on here and doesn't need resurrecting at all England games, or any other game come to that. Taking the knee is not going to go away for the time being so it's all a matter of individual choice as to whether you like it or not.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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fishboyUTM
June 6, 2021, 7:59pm
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They can if they want, but fans can boo if they want as well. I'd rather they focussed on winning games and trying to win the Euros. Southgate could have helped in that respect by not dishing out caps like confetti and playing a consistent system with the best eleven over the last few games. Instead, he's played players that aren't even in the Euros squad. I've lost faith in him.
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ska face
June 6, 2021, 8:06pm

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Dignified.

Tweet 1401585153579831298 will appear here...
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1mickylyons
June 6, 2021, 8:40pm
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Quoted from aldi_01
I mean if people are upset politics are in football then they must’ve had their head buried for a long time...

I don’t agree that our national anthem celebrates an unelected head of state, or that it doesn’t really celebrate the nation more a singular person but I don’t boo it.

Same as this, booing taking the knee is just childish and pointless...half the people booing would struggle to give a balanced reason as to why they are...


Well half the people taking the knee would also struggle to give a balanced reason why they are taking the knee?
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1mickylyons
June 6, 2021, 8:46pm
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Just to make my feelings clear if some racist wants to monkey chant at black players in 2021 I want to see them jailed and I will happily grab the twit by the neck and drag him to the nearest steward. However I personally don`t want to see players kneeling let alone on the 6th June a day when countless thousands of Englishmen died trying to rid Europe of Hitler. A better message could have been sent today surely?
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Heswall Mariner
June 6, 2021, 8:57pm

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Nope - no knee to anyone black or white.
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pizzzza
June 6, 2021, 9:00pm

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Quoted from ska face
Dignified.

Tweet 1401585153579831298 will appear here...


I wish we'd have thought of doing something like this when we were trying to get rid of Fenty
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codcheeky
June 6, 2021, 9:37pm
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Quoted from 1mickylyons
Just to make my feelings clear if some racist wants to monkey chant at black players in 2021 I want to see them jailed and I will happily grab the twit by the neck and drag him to the nearest steward. However I personally don`t want to see players kneeling let alone on the 6th June a day when countless thousands of Englishmen died trying to rid Europe of Hitler. A better message could have been sent today surely?


What has that to do with anything? Countless Africans, Indians, Nepalese Burmese, West Indians, Black adwhite Americans and others died fighting alongside us.
If we fought for anything worthwhile it was a fight against facism and the rights of all people to be accepted and treated equally.
The plain fact is this is not the case, it is not about Marxists or terrorism, it is decent people standing up ( or in this case taking the knee)for a similar cause.
Racists just do not like it, they do not like being called out, they do not like their perceived superiority questioned, the more the racists boo the longer decent citizens and sportsmen and woman need to take a stand and I applaud their integrity
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blundellpork
June 6, 2021, 9:55pm

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Virtue signalling at its finest and achieves absolutely nothing.

I’d rather the players and authorities did something that fixed the actual problem. The players should come off social media until the social media companies require ID from all users, stewards and police should haul out anyone in the ground dishing out racial abuse, the Government should legislate with harsher punishments for those caught giving out racial abuse.

Otherwise, in 20 years time the players will still be kneeling down and nobody will have the foggiest idea what this pre match ritual actually means.
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Sir Matt Tease
June 6, 2021, 10:08pm
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Quoted from blundellpork
Virtue signalling at its finest and achieves absolutely nothing.

I’d rather the players and authorities did something that fixed the actual problem. The players should come off social media until the social media companies require ID from all users, stewards and police should haul out anyone in the ground dishing out racial abuse, the Government should legislate with harsher punishments for those caught giving out racial abuse.

Otherwise, in 20 years time the players will still be kneeling down and nobody will have the foggiest idea what this pre match ritual actually means.


Spot on !

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codcheeky
June 6, 2021, 10:27pm
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Quoted from blundellpork
Virtue signalling at its finest and achieves absolutely nothing.

I’d rather the players and authorities did something that fixed the actual problem. The players should come off social media until the social media companies require ID from all users, stewards and police should haul out anyone in the ground dishing out racial abuse, the Government should legislate with harsher punishments for those caught giving out racial abuse.

Otherwise, in 20 years time the players will still be kneeling down and nobody will have the foggiest idea what this pre match ritual actually means.


The players are doing what they can, this is not virtue signalling, it is lazy for you to call it that, it’s making a stand against racism and attitudes that didn’t even belong in the past. how can they fix the problem? They are highlighting it, why should they leave social media to the racists. In 20 years time they will be applauded by even some of the dinosaurs, history will look on those booing with the contempt they deserve
Those who boo know why they are booing, we all know why they are booing and it has nothing to do with Marxism
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Humbercod
June 6, 2021, 10:29pm
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Fans booing players taking the knee aren’t booing anti-racism.They’re booing a divisive, hard left, neo-racist, political organisation.
If the England players aren’t supporting BLM (as they say they aren’t) then why not express their support for anti-racism in another way like standing up and linking arms for example, no one would boo then! This could be nipped in the bud now if they wanted, then we could all move on and enjoy the bloody tournament.
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blundellpork
June 6, 2021, 10:35pm

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Quoted from codcheeky


The players are doing what they can, this is not virtue signalling, it is lazy for you to call it that, it’s making a stand against racism and attitudes that didn’t even belong in the past. how can they fix the problem? They are highlighting it, why should they leave social media to the racists. In 20 years time they will be applauded by even some of the dinosaurs, history will look on those booing with the contempt they deserve
Those who boo know why they are booing, we all know why they are booing and it has nothing to do with Marxism


Marcus Rashford has changed Government policy on school meals in the last 12 months. Jordan Henderson led players in reducing salaries so that money went to the NHS. It just needs one or more high profile players to directly challenge the Government and policy changes, or directly challenge the leadership of their clubs to root out, punish and ban the culprits. That’s how it’s done.

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ska face
June 6, 2021, 10:38pm

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One single original thought on the issue, I beg.
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TAGG
June 6, 2021, 10:45pm

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I would not boo.
I would simply turn my back to the virtue signaling support for a crooked Marxist rabble.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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codcheeky
June 6, 2021, 10:50pm
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Quoted from blundellpork


Marcus Rashford has changed Government policy on school meals in the last 12 months. Jordan Henderson led players in reducing salaries so that money went to the NHS. It just needs one or more high profile players to directly challenge the Government and policy changes, or directly challenge the leadership of their clubs to root out, punish and ban the culprits. That’s how it’s done.



Marcus Rashford didn’t achieve what he did by remaining silent and accepting the status quo, every vote, right, decent working condition and paid holiday has been fought for, many who fought for these rights were jailed , deported or blacklisted, they were called Marxists and trouble makers by those in power. Peaceful protest and taking a stand make a difference, saying nothing and accepting you lot does not. Unfortunately there are still too many racists in this country
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Mikey_345
June 6, 2021, 11:26pm
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Quoted from TAGG
I would not boo.
I would simply turn my back to the virtue signaling support for a crooked Marxist rabble.


And you see.... you’ve been told that’s not what it’s about and it isn’t in support of that. Yet you choose to ignore that..


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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TAGG
June 6, 2021, 11:34pm

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Quoted from Mikey_345


And you see.... you’ve been told that’s not what it’s about and it isn’t in support of that. Yet you choose to ignore that..


That's a load of balderdash.
This all started with support of BLM, a Marxist band of charlatans and is still to this day.



In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Mikey_345
June 6, 2021, 11:40pm
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Quoted from TAGG


That's a load of balderdash.
This all started with support of BLM, a Marxist band of charlatans and is still to this day.



Yes because I’m sure Kane has a picture of Karl Marxs in his locker at Spurs and has secretly been reading the team his work including all three volumes of Das Kapital at the team hotel.

It simply isn’t done in support of them, they’ve said it isn’t repeatedly and yet again this week, yet you and others choose to ignore it.....


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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TAGG
June 6, 2021, 11:45pm

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Quoted from Mikey_345


Yes because I’m sure Kane has a picture of Karl Marxs in his locker at Spurs and has secretly been reading the team his work including all three volumes of Das Kapital at the team hotel.

It simply isn’t done in support of them, they’ve said it isn’t repeatedly and yet again this week, yet you and others choose to ignore it.....


Hes just going along with the rest of them.
They need to stop doing it because it will turn many against them.

They must stop.
Go woke Go broke


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Mikey_345
June 6, 2021, 11:53pm
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Quoted from TAGG


Hes just going along with the rest of them.
They need to stop doing it because it will turn many against them.

They must stop.
Go woke Go broke


Ok so which one of the squad is leading this Marxist conspiracy? Rashford or maybe it’s Pickford? I wonder when they’re going to make their move and over throw the government...

There is nothing wrong about making a stand on social and racial Injustice. So stop throwing silly little “woke” sayings around that actually mean nothing.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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WOZOFGRIMSBY
June 7, 2021, 4:17am

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Who cares really anymore? It’s a minute out of the day that if you don’t like it, go for a sh1t or something

It’s nothing to do with football, or sport for that matter and any meaning it had at the start is slowly being diminished because of the arguments about what it actually stands for.


He’s one of our loans
He’s one of our loans
Harvey Cartwright
He’s one of our loans
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Vance Warner
June 7, 2021, 6:37am
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Makes me proud to be English watching a young multi cultural team standing up for what they believe in. They are led by a proper man who displays the best of British - respectful, compassionate, steadfast and determined. They have made the reasons for taking the knee abundantly clear over and over.

Lots of events over the past few years won’t age well and will be hard to explain to future generations but people booing an anti racism gesture will be right up there.
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codcheeky
June 7, 2021, 7:41am
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Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY
Who cares really anymore? It’s a minute out of the day that if you don’t like it, go for a sh1t or something

It’s nothing to do with football, or sport for that matter and any meaning it had at the start is slowly being diminished because of the arguments about what it actually stands for.


More people than you think care. Perhaps racism doesn’t affect you in any way, perhaps you don’t believe it exists in this country. The arguments about what it stands for have been deliberately muddied and called Marxist because it suits the racist agenda, Marxism is a scare word similar to socialism is in the US, a word bandied about to frighten the uneducated and chosen so the racists among us can justify their booing without perhaps needing to admit to their selves the true reason
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Madeleymariner
June 7, 2021, 7:51am

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I really don't give a toss about knees should people boo etc each to their own its nearly a free country
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Sir Matt Tease
June 7, 2021, 8:43am
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In my opinion this course of action has run its course.

Sadly, this truth does not seem to resonate with those at the top of the game, who have been preoccupied with the trend of tiresome social justice activism and sanctimonious PR stunts. Premier League matches still start with players taking a knee, vaguely in support of racial justice. The kneeling, the constant conversations about race, and now this boycott are all part of the same genre: A fashionable spectacle that doesn't achieve anything beyond some vacuous virtue signalling.

It can escape no one that sport has become the latest battleground for the culture war. But the only division fans want is a winning margin for their team, they don't need identity politics to make sport even more divisive, its time to leave the opinions OFF the field.

We live in a multicultural liberal society where as a person of any creed or colour you are free to become a multi-million pound football player or come from a rough housing estate through hard work.

I would love to know how many black lives have improved as a result of 22 over paid prima donna's taking the knee before every game, its becoming tiresome !
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Vance Warner
June 7, 2021, 9:39am
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Quoted from Sir Matt Tease
In my opinion this course of action has run its course.

Sadly, this truth does not seem to resonate with those at the top of the game, who have been preoccupied with the trend of tiresome social justice activism and sanctimonious PR stunts. Premier League matches still start with players taking a knee, vaguely in support of racial justice. The kneeling, the constant conversations about race, and now this boycott are all part of the same genre: A fashionable spectacle that doesn't achieve anything beyond some vacuous virtue signalling.

It can escape no one that sport has become the latest battleground for the culture war. But the only division fans want is a winning margin for their team, they don't need identity politics to make sport even more divisive, its time to leave the opinions OFF the field.

We live in a multicultural liberal society where as a person of any creed or colour you are free to become a multi-million pound football player or come from a rough housing estate through hard work.

I would love to know how many black lives have improved as a result of 22 over paid prima donna's taking the knee before every game, its becoming tiresome !


Sorry to hear it’s tiresome for you to watch 22 men kneel for 3 seconds. Imagine how tiresome a lifetime of discrimination is. Many of those kneeling experience racism on a daily basis via social media which is plain for all to see. They are taking a stand against this and the only opinion they are expressing is that racism is wrong.

By the way I don’t know what country you’ve been living in if you think the only barrier to people of any colour becoming millionaires is hard work.
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KingstonMariner
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Kinell here we go again. “Hard left Marxists blah blah” “other brain dead phrase picked up from social media”.

Personally I hope they keep on taking the knee. It’s like an instant IQ test so we can spot the thickos in the crowd - if you see someone booing you’ll know they’re hard of thinking.


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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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A small amount of crystal ball gazing slightly off topic would reveal that in 20/30 years football will have changed beyond all recognition. It will be played by teams composed predominantly of black players and run by franchises. We only need to look at the number of black players in Town shirts relative to the population of the town when it is only a generation since our first black player. I don’t know how that will work out in the long run but it will be different. There will be no need for the Sol Campbells to keep a chip on their shoulder. Football is already ceasing to be a white working class leisure activity to play and it is happening quite quickly. There are precedents from the USA in boxing and basketball offering ways to fame and fortune to black kids.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Grimsbynewhope
June 7, 2021, 10:21am
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FFS how many more times do we have to go into this
Some people agree some people don’t get over it.
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aldi_01
June 7, 2021, 10:24am

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A small amount of crystal ball gazing slightly off topic would reveal that in 20/30 years football will have changed beyond all recognition. It will be played by teams composed predominantly of black players and run by franchises. We only need to look at the number of black players in Town shirts relative to the population of the town when it is only a generation since our first black player. I don’t know how that will work out in the long run but it will be different. There will be no need for the Sol Campbells to keep a chip on their shoulder. Football is already ceasing to be a white working class leisure activity to play and it is happening quite quickly. There are precedents from the USA in boxing and basketball offering ways to fame and fortune to black kids.


I’m failing to see your issue?

Once again, we’re having a debate when the loudest seem the least informed...I mean throwing around ‘Marxist’ as an insult is somewhat bizarre but each to their own.

Like I say, perhaps the booing fraternity could recognise that all they are is rude and ironic...

To be honest, I’m still baffled as to why people are so worked up about about something which takes a mere few seconds, nothing more...if you’re that arsed have another pint or go for a slash...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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Fillipe Noche
June 7, 2021, 10:49am
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There is no “should” about it. To use the word should seems to imply that there is a right and wrong in the choice.

I am pleased that they do, since I am against everything regarding institutional racism and racial prejudice.

I am not one of these people who clearly do not understand the true message that is being sent out by players, both white and back players. I am not one of the people that foolishly say “all lives matter” in ignorance of the fact that nobody in BLM is saying they don’t. The statement and slogan has never ever read “only Black Lives Matter”.

Racism makes me feel sick to the pit of my stomach, and frankly I feel that those booing the players are horrible. We don’t boo those that don’t choose to take the knee. There’s just no need for it.

Society really is troubled at times
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
June 7, 2021, 11:00am

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Quoted from codcheeky


More people than you think care. Perhaps racism doesn’t affect you in any way, perhaps you don’t believe it exists in this country. The arguments about what it stands for have been deliberately muddied and called Marxist because it suits the racist agenda, Marxism is a scare word similar to socialism is in the US, a word bandied about to frighten the uneducated and chosen so the racists among us can justify their booing without perhaps needing to admit to their selves the true reason


I actually meant, who cares if they take a knee or not. And I know full well that racism is rife in Britain, and in fact the world as a whole. My family were persecuted and my auntie murdered on their farm in Rhodesia and I’ve seen enough how different religions too are treated (and treat each other) living in Northern Ireland.


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LH
June 7, 2021, 11:34am

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A small amount of crystal ball gazing slightly off topic would reveal that in 20/30 years football will have changed beyond all recognition. It will be played by teams composed predominantly of black players and run by franchises. We only need to look at the number of black players in Town shirts relative to the population of the town when it is only a generation since our first black player. I don’t know how that will work out in the long run but it will be different. There will be no need for the Sol Campbells to keep a chip on their shoulder. Football is already ceasing to be a white working class leisure activity to play and it is happening quite quickly. There are precedents from the USA in boxing and basketball offering ways to fame and fortune to black kids.


In a thread of utter excrement this is the sweetcorn on the top of the pile.
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Gaffer58
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We’re a democratic country with in essence a free press and a system where onto a point you can speak freely, not everybody agrees or disagrees with everyone’s opinion. So let the players take the knee and let those that want to boo. As an afterthought, why is it sportspersons who take the knee, why don’t the Tesco workers do it at the start of a shift, or are they racist because they don’t?
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from LH


In a thread of utter excrement this is the sweetcorn on the top of the pile.


I am simply passing an opinion about the direction the game has taken. I find your comment objectionable. You seem to be just looking for trouble where none exists which for a moderator is pretty disgraceful.



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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MeanwoodMariner
June 7, 2021, 1:16pm

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We now have one group of people genuinely claiming that taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM. It's a spectacularly brazen piece of revisionism. On the other side, we have people booing at their own players before matches. There's a reason people suggest keeping politics out of sport. It's become an ugly, divisive mess.
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RichMariner
June 7, 2021, 1:24pm
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I've read and heard a lot of opinions on this. We're all allowed to express an opinion (free speech, etc). I get all that.

But I can't get away from the deep discomfort I feel when I hear people boo.

It's a gut reaction. It feels like we're booing a protest against racism. I'm sure I'll be told it's more than that, and we can once again bring up topics like politics and Marxism but essentially it feels like people have gone searching for reasons to object against the gesture.

Watching the England players take a knee doesn't rile me like it does others. I just see a bunch of people who want to show solidarity in the fight against racism. I won't boo that.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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diehardmariner
June 7, 2021, 2:12pm
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I think the players should be free to make whatever political gesture they like, within the law.  

For those who are calling for no place of politics in sport, have you had your eyes closed for the last god knows how many decades?  Politics and sport always have and always will be strongly linked.

Sadly, I now wonder what overall benefit the taking of the knee gives.  The stand against racism is not only admirable but well overdue.  Unfortunately the actions seem to draw out more morons.  The knee alone is not enough.  Firmer action is needed by more parties, not just the social media companies either.  Football has and is too soft on racism, but that change has to start internally.  A firm approach is needed on racist actions by players and fans, not gestures and token punishments.  Society has an even bigger role to play here, yes football has a social responsibility but this isn't a problem isolated to the game, it's far bigger than that.  Until society is actually prepared to tackle the issue head on, it's always going to be a case of swimming against the tide.

Without a firmer line I fear the knee will only serve to give fuel to those who oppose an anti-racism stance.  
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Theimperialcoroner
June 7, 2021, 2:13pm

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Quoted from TAGG


That's a load of balderdash.
This all started with support of BLM, a Marxist band of charlatans and is still to this day.



intercourse it, I’ll bite…

Come on then TAGG. Please enlighten us with some proof of how all this is linked to Marxism and then give us 5 reasons why Marixism is as evil as you’re suggesting.

You won’t be able to will you because you’ve no idea what you’re railing against. You’re angry at your own impotence, you’re angry that you’re being marginalised in fact you’re just plain angry. Trouble is you’re focusing that anger in entirely the wrong direction. We live in a country where neoliberalism has ripped society apart in the name of making a few more tawdry shillings. Point your rage at those people rather than anyone trying to make the world a bit less excrement for everyone.


Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
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mariner91
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It’s hilarious when 99% of the people who claim they’re so against “Marxism” don’t actually know what it is.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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Theimperialcoroner
June 7, 2021, 2:23pm

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Quoted from mariner91
It’s hilarious when 99% of the people who claim they’re so against “Marxism” don’t actually know what it is.


Very much my point 😉


Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 7, 2021, 2:23pm
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I'm just scanning the posts here looking for where the 'keep politics out of sport' brigade are piling in on Johnson and Dowden for criticising the ECB's decision to ban Ollie Robinson.....


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lew chaterleys lover
June 7, 2021, 2:58pm
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Quoted from LH


In a thread of utter excrement this is the sweetcorn on the top of the pile.


That comment says far more about you than it does RRFC. Are we only allowed to express views that suit your narrative? His post was not in the least contentious and your reaction to it is beyond bizarre.
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lew chaterleys lover
June 7, 2021, 2:59pm
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I'm just scanning the posts here looking for where the 'keep politics out of sport' brigade are piling in on Johnson and Dowden for criticising the ECB's decision to ban Ollie Robinson.....


Have you tried a cricket forum?  

As it happens I for one am delighted the PM and Culture secretary have come out in support of Ollie Robinson. Trying to disrupt his career about tweets sent when he was a teenager is way over the top. He has given a full apology and that should be the end of the matter.
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Civvy at last
June 7, 2021, 3:10pm

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Quoted from mariner91
It’s hilarious when 99% of the people who claim they’re so against “Marxism” don’t actually know what it is.


Well I do. I’ve seen all their films and think they’re great.
Groucho is my favourite  


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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mike_d
June 7, 2021, 3:22pm
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I think an interesting view on whether or not to take a knee is in this clip - albeit for American Football, the arguments on both side are worth listening to.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/american-football/54134763

Basically, if the people concerned feel the need, then they should be able to express this. This is markedly different to expressing a racist opinion, which should be stamped on.


To quote - Insanely amazing or amazingly insane. Life as a Town Fan.
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Mikey_345
June 7, 2021, 3:23pm
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Quoted from mariner91
It’s hilarious when 99% of the people who claim they’re so against “Marxism” don’t actually know what it is.


I bet alot of people have been googling Marxism the last few days...


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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ska face
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I hope none of the babies crying about the “defund the police” idea ever moan about one of our matches being overpoliced in future.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 7, 2021, 4:32pm
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Quoted from Mikey_345


I bet alot of people have been googling Marxism the last few days...


I doubt it. Googling implies a desire to understand it. It's much easier to just repeat the same tired messages that are pumped at us by the establishment and media.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Stadium
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Have you tried a cricket forum?  

As it happens I for one am delighted the PM and Culture secretary have come out in support of Ollie Robinson. Trying to disrupt his career about tweets sent when he was a teenager is way over the top. He has given a full apology and that should be the end of the matter.




The ECB are just following their own procedures which has nothing to do with the government.
They have made no comment which is correct until the investigation is concluded.
What you are really saying is that they should ignore their own guidelines?




“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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Yoda
June 7, 2021, 5:16pm
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Yes the cricket was an over reaction.
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Yoda
June 7, 2021, 5:17pm
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L H is the moderator oh dear.!
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
June 7, 2021, 5:31pm

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Quoted from mariner91
It’s hilarious when 99% of the people who claim they’re so against “Marxism” don’t actually know what it is.


Isn’t he that bloke who sang hazard?


He’s one of our loans
He’s one of our loans
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HackneyHaddock
June 7, 2021, 5:58pm
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The taking of the knee undoubtedly came over from the US after Colin Kaepernick made a protest about the way black Americans are policed in the US, with all of the grim racial history attached to it.  It became inextricably linked to BLM, both in the US and around the world, including in the UK, where some protests ended in violence and vandalism.  The Premier League carried the Black Lives Matter slogan and logo on shirts at the restart of the league last summer, so it would be revisionism to say that taking the knee has *nothing* to do with BLM, whether or not that means the organisation or the concept.

Having said that, protests and displays of support, often evolve, and the Premier League and Sky eventually dropped the BLM branding from their shows, shirts, pundit lapel badges etc.  The England team have said that they now see the protest as being against racism in football more generally, and cited abuse from the stands and social media abuse.  I've seen some documentaries on the social media abuse players get and the lack of action from companies in removing it.  We were all appalled when our players were racially abused in Bulgaria, and I reckon every single person on this thread at the time backed out players in walking off.

So where does this leave us now?  Yes, you can argue that the knee-taking was a symbol of one American socio-political protest movement that ended up over here.  You can disapprove of that in good faith.  I'm not a big fan myself, and am probably closer to the Les Ferdinand/QPR position that the campaign should now be using other symbols.

Now if those of us not naturally inclined to the BLM Organisation's view of the world, or who wouldn't personally take a knee, are asking England Players to accept those points are being made in good faith, then I think we owe it to our players to accept THEIR explanation of why they're doing the protest, in good faith too.  When our players say they're taking the knee to protest racism in the game, social media abuse and to raise awareness of racism in wider society, I take their word for it.

Ultimately, the racists are in a minority and we're having an argument about how different people within the non-racist majority interpret a gesture.  Our way out of this is for people to accept that most fans, like the players, are making points in good faith and to respect that even if there are misgivings, and to focus instead on supporting the players and squad, and not sending them out to try to win us a home tournament with their own fans' booing ringing in their ears.

Let's have some of that spirit of togetherness we had in the country in 2018 and put our differences aside to back the team for a few hours every few days for the next month.  Come on England!
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codcheeky
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Have you tried a cricket forum?  

As it happens I for one am delighted the PM and Culture secretary have come out in support of Ollie Robinson. Trying to disrupt his career about tweets sent when he was a teenager is way over the top. He has given a full apology and that should be the end of the matter.


Well that’s a surprise, it’s not like the PM has a catalogue of racist and sexist in his past
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TAGG
June 7, 2021, 6:59pm

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The terraces are a totaly different place now from when I went to my first game in 1969 because of things like Kick racism out and other initiatives which 99.9% of fans support.
These things have brought fans together like nothing else.
I know if any on here ever see or hear any racism at a game would be straight in at who ever it was to sort them out.

BLM as can be see just by this one thread is divisive and a threat to not just football but to society as a whole.

BLM is a political self proclaimed Marxist organisation and that is why people boo not because they are racist.

Taking of the knee is an American thing began by Kaepernick not kneeling for the National Anthem, its not a British thing.
In this country taking a knee means to be subservient and I will never kneel for an organisation like BLM.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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darren9
June 7, 2021, 6:59pm
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I’ve tried. But I can’t understand the debate.

If the players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then they should be allowed to.

The gesture itself I don’t see political to the extent that those frothing at the mouth to condemn it do. It plainly isn’t Marxist. Can you name me a single England footballer who has demonstrated Marxist views? The closest I can think of is Marcus Rashford but feeding kids isn’t exactly a pillar of Marxism or socialism, it’s just, holding the government to account and not being a complete bell-end isn’t it? I also struggle to believe that any of the England squad want to defund the police.

What is happening is that those against it are (deliberately in some cases) confusing a movement to create equality between races with the more militant black
Lives matter movement. Taking the knee does not endorse the political movement and is not in support of the views of that organisation. What the squad are protesting against is the imbalance between colours in our society. We can all claim that it doesn’t happen but the majority on here are white and we haven’t lived the experiences that some in the squad have. What’s more is that those against it are white, criticising those who have lived the experience when you have no idea what it’s like isn’t a good look is it?  It’s clear racism is still an issue in society and in football in general.

Football and in particular England doesn’t have a positive history with regards racism and any gesture which goes against this and shows a more progressive thought process has to be encouraged.

‘Kick it out’ or social media block outs or any other number of initiatives hasn’t worked. But this is something which allows the power to be given back to the players and the individuals.

Booing your team before a ball is kicked can’t help can it? On the eve of a major tournament is unbelievable. We, the fans like to think we’re the ‘12th man’ and we’ve seen how important fans are during the pandemic. Football has missed fans. But booing your own team before a game can only be counter productive.

I appreciate that the above comes from my own beliefs and my own experiences. But I’m in agreement with Gary Lineker “if you boo players for taking the knee, you’re part of the reason the players are taking the knee” and to me if you boo you’re identifying yourself as a racist.


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DB
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Quoted from darren9
I’ve tried. But I can’t understand the debate.

If the players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then they should be allowed to.

The gesture itself I don’t see political to the extent that those frothing at the mouth to condemn it do. It plainly isn’t Marxist. Can you name me a single England footballer who has demonstrated Marxist views? The closest I can think of is Marcus Rashford but feeding kids isn’t exactly a pillar of Marxism or socialism, it’s just, holding the government to account and not being a complete bell-end isn’t it? I also struggle to believe that any of the England squad want to defund the police.

What is happening is that those against it are (deliberately in some cases) confusing a movement to create equality between races with the more militant black
Lives matter movement. Taking the knee does not endorse the political movement and is not in support of the views of that organisation. What the squad are protesting against is the imbalance between colours in our society. We can all claim that it doesn’t happen but the majority on here are white and we haven’t lived the experiences that some in the squad have. What’s more is that those against it are white, criticising those who have lived the experience when you have no idea what it’s like isn’t a good look is it?  It’s clear racism is still an issue in society and in football in general.

Football and in particular England doesn’t have a positive history with regards racism and any gesture which goes against this and shows a more progressive thought process has to be encouraged.

‘Kick it out’ or social media block outs or any other number of initiatives hasn’t worked. But this is something which allows the power to be given back to the players and the individuals.

Booing your team before a ball is kicked can’t help can it? On the eve of a major tournament is unbelievable. We, the fans like to think we’re the ‘12th man’ and we’ve seen how important fans are during the pandemic. Football has missed fans. But booing your own team before a game can only be counter productive.

I appreciate that the above comes from my own beliefs and my own experiences. But I’m in agreement with Gary Lineker “if you boo players for taking the knee, you’re part of the reason the players are taking the knee” and to me if you boo you’re identifying yourself as a racist.


I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't know if the players are plainly making the choice, or not.



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darren9
June 7, 2021, 7:32pm
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Quoted from DB


I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't knowif the players are plainly making the choice, or not.



But you’ve decided some players have been forced into it because it fits your belief system?

I’ll modify my original point then …

The FA, Southgate, or Kane and senior players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then try should be allowed to.  

I’m sure if a particular player had an issue then they would be able to raise it in much the same way that James McClean is able to not wear a poppy without reprisals from the FA.




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Vance Warner
June 7, 2021, 7:33pm
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Quoted from DB


I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't know if the players are plainly making the choice, or not.



So despite the manager coming out and stating that is a collective decision you still don’t believe that it’s the choice of all individuals. Assumedly you have some pretty concrete evidence  for this assumption as surely it would be ridiculous to boo all players taking the knee on the off chance one didn’t want to. Might be time to reflect on whether there are any other reasons why you’re uncomfortable with it.
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Quoted from darren9


But you’ve decided some players have been forced into it because it fits your belief system?

I’ll modify my original point then …

The FA, Southgate, or Kane and senior players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then try should be allowed to.  

I’m sure if a particular player had an issue then they would be able to raise it in much the same way that James McClean is able to not wear a poppy without reprisals from the FA.




So what exactly is my belief system that you criticise?



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pizzzza
June 7, 2021, 7:48pm

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Jeez, I can't wait to have this same debate on here another 3 or 4 times over the course of the Euros.
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Quoted from DB


So what exactly is my belief system that you criticise?



I haven’t criticised? I’ve just said that the players being forced into it reflects your belief system, perhaps the use of the word ‘system’ was misplaced. But I don’t really know what you believe. I suspect you’re pro-boo and anti-taking the knee. A stance I disagree with hence entering into this debate.


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LH
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I am simply passing an opinion about the direction the game has taken. I find your comment objectionable. You seem to be just looking for trouble where none exists which for a moderator is pretty disgraceful.



So your opinion is that football is for white working class people only? The World Cup would be pretty excrement if only the white British working class could take part. That’s before we get onto teams representing a demographic of the area they represent. We’d be even more excrement than we currently are.
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June 7, 2021, 7:56pm

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I reckon that if I had to take the knee I wouldn’t get up again


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Quoted from DB


I have seen many games where some players take the knee and some don't, being a personal choice of each player. As I understand it the England players are told to take the knee, so they as individuals are not making a choice, but doing as instructed or dictated to. Beit by the FA, Southgate, or Kane & senior players but not making a personal choice.

So we don't know if the players are plainly making the choice, or not.



Pretty clear it’s a collective decision in conjunction with the players.

Any other reason we cannot all just let a group of individuals make a simple and sincere stance against racism?


All Town aren’t we

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Rick12
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Personally Iam in support of players taking the knee . What I would add though is I don't buy into all this political holier than thou though in that Iam better than you as Iam of left persuasion and your right or vice versa. Good and bad on both sides as noted if taken to the extreme. Just last week for instance there was physical attacks by left wing extremists on a Catholic  church procession in France . Likewise there has been attacks by right wing extremists also on churches. Hopefully in the future people can come together and work for the good of the whole.


One life,one love .
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Quoted from Vance Warner


So despite the manager coming out and stating that is a collective decision you still don’t believe that it’s the choice of all individuals. Assumedly you have some pretty concrete evidence  for this assumption as surely it would be ridiculous to boo all players taking the knee on the off chance one didn’t want to. Might be time to reflect on whether there are any other reasons why you’re uncomfortable with it.


Firstly I have never said I am not comfortable with taking the knee so why did you put this lie in your post? So please reread what I wrote.

Secondly, I was making a point about the wording:-

If the players want to make this gesture (which they plainly do) then they should be allowed to.

Nobody knows what Southgate meant by 'collective' decision and how many were in favour and how many weren't if any!

When players in many league games chose not to take the knee anymore, as witnessed on tv etc., then you have to ask the question of why nobody in the national team doesn't want to stop. It seems very unusual that around 30 players, management are all in agreement.




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I won't be booing on Sunday when I am in the stadium it's up to the individual Player supporter etc what he feels  HE WANTS to do. If the guy next to me boos  its up to him it's his choice




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Quoted from darren9


I haven’t criticised? I’ve just said that the players being forced into it reflects your belief system, perhaps the use of the word ‘system’ was misplaced. But I don’t really know what you believe. I suspect you’re pro-boo and anti-taking the knee. A stance I disagree with hence entering into this debate.


You made the statement, a lie, that it reflects my belief system. This statement by you has no substance and you retract it by saying you don't know what I believe. At least that is correct.

Having said you don't know what I believe you then come out with more supposition and lies. If you had one bit of brain in your body you would realise from my many previous posts that I fully support democracy, freedom of speech, and personal choice; regardless of whether I agree or not a post.

So please stop making up lies about what I believe in and stick to facts that can be checked.





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darren9
June 7, 2021, 8:35pm
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Quoted from DB


You made the statement, a lie, that it reflects my belief system. This statement by you has no substance and you retract it by saying you don't know what I believe. At least that is correct.

Having said you don't know what I believe you then come out with more supposition and lies. If you had one bit of brain in your body you would realise from my many previous posts that I fully support democracy, freedom of speech, and personal choice; regardless of whether I agree or not a post.

So please stop making up lies about what I believe in and stick to facts that can be checked.





We’re all supposing aren’t we? It’s what a forum is for. I appear to have upset you - it wasn’t my intention and if I have I’m
sorry.  

We appear to be on opposing sides of the debate but the debate should be civilised. If I have crossed a line then again, I apologise.



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DocDock
June 7, 2021, 8:37pm

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Really in two minds over this. I personally don’t have objections to them taking the knee, but in reality, what has it achieved? If anything, at the moment it’s becoming a very divisive action to do before a game and the booing could potentially affect the team/player’s performance during the match.

Do we really want to go into an important tournament, a tournament in which England stand a good chance of doing well in with fans booing the team just before kick off? With Southgate even coming out and saying they’ll continue to do it, even with the players continuing to take the knee it just gives the dissenters more ammunition to continue booing. It’s this kind of “us and them” mentality from both sides and this kind of unnecessary distraction which means that unfortunately i feel taking the knee must stop for the time being.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from LH


So your opinion is that football is for white working class people only? The World Cup would be pretty excrement if only the white British working class could take part. That’s before we get onto teams representing a demographic of the area they represent. We’d be even more excrement than we currently are.


How on earth did you get to be a moderator when you cannot read properly? You totally misinterpret and/or misunderstand my post. It simply is not worth getting into an argument with someone so incapable of understanding the written word.



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Stadium
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Quoted from DocDock
Really in two minds over this. I personally don’t have objections to them taking the knee, but in reality, what has it achieved? If anything, at the moment it’s becoming a very divisive action to do before a game and the booing could potentially affect the team/player’s performance during the match.

Do we really want to go into an important tournament, a tournament in which England stand a good chance of doing well in with fans booing the team just before kick off? With Southgate even coming out and saying they’ll continue to do it, even with the players continuing to take the knee it just gives the dissenters more ammunition to continue booing. It’s this kind of “us and them” mentality from both sides and this kind of unnecessary distraction which means that unfortunately i feel taking the knee must stop for the time being.


Barney Ronay:

First, the booing. Nothing was solved here despite Southgate’s own, very clear and respectful call for kindness. It will be there again at Wembley.

What to do with this now? There are issues with knee-taking. Nobody has to agree with anyone else about anything. You might feel this is not necessary, or believe that discrimination is overplayed, or – who knows – a good thing. You might feel there is something odd in football as an industry preaching about inequality, or men who earn 350 times the national wage in a country where people go hungry. These are points for discussion.

But the public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous.

It is worth remembering in the middle of all this that football is just an amplification of what is out there. If there are racists, boneheads and people without compassion at England football matches, this is because these people exist in England. The harm they do is not confined to, contained by, or even that relevant to football. Football has to live with it, because no other physical human activity offers this soapbox, this visible theatre of hate.

And in reality the people who need to answer for this level of dissonance and rage are those in power: governments of the past 20 years; a sickly strain in the British media; and all those diffuse clumps of intolerance and ignorance wherever they may be found.



“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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DocDock
June 7, 2021, 9:16pm

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Quoted from Stadium


Barney Ronay:

First, the booing. Nothing was solved here despite Southgate’s own, very clear and respectful call for kindness. It will be there again at Wembley.

What to do with this now? There are issues with knee-taking. Nobody has to agree with anyone else about anything. You might feel this is not necessary, or believe that discrimination is overplayed, or – who knows – a good thing. You might feel there is something odd in football as an industry preaching about inequality, or men who earn 350 times the national wage in a country where people go hungry. These are points for discussion.

But the public booing of a simple anti-racism gesture is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous.

It is worth remembering in the middle of all this that football is just an amplification of what is out there. If there are racists, boneheads and people without compassion at England football matches, this is because these people exist in England. The harm they do is not confined to, contained by, or even that relevant to football. Football has to live with it, because no other physical human activity offers this soapbox, this visible theatre of hate.

And in reality the people who need to answer for this level of dissonance and rage are those in power: governments of the past 20 years; a sickly strain in the British media; and all those diffuse clumps of intolerance and ignorance wherever they may be found.


That’s a very profound bit of text and there is an argument to be had that recent governments have perpetuated the racial divides in society (Brexit being a notable example of it) but once again, when and where does it stop, which government facilitates this change, this different way of thinking, that booing players who take the knee is unacceptable. You see this kind of change isn’t something that’ll happen overnight, it’s a generational thing and there’s still a section of society, in this case fans who go to England games and see players taking the knee that their immediate response is to boo. I feel like I’m waffling a bit here, but all i can see in the immediate short term is stubbornness from both sides, a refusal to change either actions or viewpoints and ultimately something will have to give, otherwise it’ll be to the the detriment to the England team and neither side wants that.
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LH
June 7, 2021, 9:27pm

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Football is already ceasing to be a white working class leisure activity to play and it is happening quite quickly. There are precedents from the USA in boxing and basketball offering ways to fame and fortune to black kids.


I can only read what you wrote yourself. I’ll ask again - is football only for the white working class?
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Vance Warner
June 7, 2021, 9:44pm
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Quoted from DocDock


That’s a very profound bit of text and there is an argument to be had that recent governments have perpetuated the racial divides in society (Brexit being a notable example of it) but once again, when and where does it stop, which government facilitates this change, this different way of thinking, that booing players who take the knee is unacceptable. You see this kind of change isn’t something that’ll happen overnight, it’s a generational thing and there’s still a section of society, in this case fans who go to England games and see players taking the knee that their immediate response is to boo. I feel like I’m waffling a bit here, but all i can see in the immediate short term is stubbornness from both sides, a refusal to change either actions or viewpoints and ultimately something will have to give, otherwise it’ll be to the the detriment to the England team and neither side wants that.


Whilst I don’t disagree about the stubbornness on both sides I don’t know how I can moderate my view without setting racial equality in this country and in football back 20 years. Like it or not it is the latest in a long line of things that have empowered racists. I’m not quite sure what those booing the knee have to lose by ignoring it rather than booing it? Maybe someone can help me answer that.

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TAGG
June 7, 2021, 9:49pm

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As can been seen everywhere now, this BLM thing is dividing not just football but the whole of society.

There are a lot of angry people out there who just want to get on with there lives and are sick to flipping death of all this excrement being pushed down there throat.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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Quoted from LH


I can only read what you wrote yourself. I’ll ask again - is football only for the white working class?


Wriggle, wriggle. And the sweet corn on the supposed excrement you read? How do you account for that sort of insult as a moderator?


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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pizzzza
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Quoted from LH


The World Cup would be pretty excrement if only the white British working class could take part.


At least we'd have a chance of winning it.
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Vance Warner
June 7, 2021, 10:00pm
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Quoted from TAGG
As can been seen everywhere now, this BLM thing is dividing not just football but the whole of society.

There are a lot of angry people out there who just want to get on with there lives and are sick to flipping death of all this excrement being pushed down there throat.


But it’s not being pushed down anyone’s throat and it’s in support of anti racism not BLM. These things are common knowledge so why the anger?
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TAGG
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Quoted from Vance Warner


But it’s not being pushed down anyone’s throat and it’s in support of anti racism not BLM. These things are common knowledge so why the anger?


Because people are sick to death of others telling them that they are racist and being  told you have to conform with our opinion because its the only one.
Let people get on with there lives and enjoy football again.

At one time I would be proper excited about a big Tournament  involving England but now don't give a intercourse because its not now about football.

Mods
PLEASE STOP THIS THREAD AND PUT IT IN THE flipping BIN NOW.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
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Quoted from TAGG
As can been seen everywhere now, this BLM thing is dividing not just football but the whole of society.

There are a lot of angry people out there who just want to get on with there lives and are sick to flipping death of all this excrement being pushed down there throat.


And there a lot of black people who are sick to f***ing death of being racially abused. You can turn your TV off. They can't turn the racism off.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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GrimRob
June 7, 2021, 10:24pm

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Just out of interest, do the England cricket or rugby teams take the knee, or is it just a football thing?


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 7, 2021, 10:26pm
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Quoted from TAGG


Because people are sick to death of others telling them that they are racist and being  told you have to conform with our opinion because its the only one.
Let people get on with there lives and enjoy football again.

At one time I would be proper excited about a big Tournament  involving England but now don't give a intercourse because its not now about football.

Mods
PLEASE STOP THIS THREAD AND PUT IT IN THE flipping BIN NOW.


Moderators: please do nothing of the sort. That would be suppressing free speech and open debate.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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lew chaterleys lover
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To have such a divisive issue just before a major tournament is a disaster. It was obvious that as soon as fans returned it would mean reality coming face to face with virtue signalling, because that is what it is. Fans won't put up with it - the sheer stupidity of kneeling before a game that achieves absolutely nothing (and has demonstrably made things worse) was bound to upset people inside the stadiums. I see some irresponsible journalists have written that those booing must be racists - how absurd is that?

Fans do not go to a game to be preached at; the vast, vast majority of fans would tell someone in authority if they heard any racism in a stadium so why the need for virtue signalling at games?  

A  re-think is needed before England's first game as this is threatening to overshadow the tournament. Fans know that the UK is one of the most racially diverse and welcoming countries on the planet, so will be quite rightly angered that they somehow need "reminding" before every game.

It's alright people saying to fans just ignore it; why should they? There are thousands of things that could be improved in life and people are passionate about, but football would lose fans hand over fist if we accommodated them all.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 7, 2021, 10:34pm
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To have such a divisive issue just before a major tournament is a disaster. It was obvious that as soon as fans returned it would mean reality coming face to face with virtue signalling, because that is what it is. Fans won't put up with it - the sheer stupidity of kneeling before a game that achieves absolutely nothing (and has demonstrably made things worse) was bound to upset people inside the stadiums. I see some irresponsible journalists have written that those booing must be racists - how absurd is that?

Fans do not go to a game to be preached at; the vast, vast majority of fans would tell someone in authority if they heard any racism in a stadium so why the need for virtue signalling at games?  

A  re-think is needed before England's first game as this is threatening to overshadow the tournament. Fans know that the UK is one of the most racially diverse and welcoming countries on the planet, so will be quite rightly angered that they somehow need "reminding" before every game.

It's alright people saying to fans just ignore it; why should they? There are thousands of things that could be improved in life and people are passionate about, but football would lose fans hand over fist if we accommodated them all.


God forbid that a football tournament should be "overshadowed" by people trying to be treated fairly, reasonably and equally.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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GrimRob
June 7, 2021, 10:37pm

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To have such a divisive issue just before a major tournament is a disaster. It was obvious that as soon as fans returned it would mean reality coming face to face with virtue signalling, because that is what it is. Fans won't put up with it - the sheer stupidity of kneeling before a game that achieves absolutely nothing (and has demonstrably made things worse) was bound to upset people inside the stadiums. I see some irresponsible journalists have written that those booing must be racists - how absurd is that?

Fans do not go to a game to be preached at; the vast, vast majority of fans would tell someone in authority if they heard any racism in a stadium so why the need for virtue signalling at games?  

A  re-think is needed before England's first game as this is threatening to overshadow the tournament. Fans know that the UK is one of the most racially diverse and welcoming countries on the planet, so will be quite rightly angered that they somehow need "reminding" before every game.

It's alright people saying to fans just ignore it; why should they? There are thousands of things that could be improved in life and people are passionate about, but football would lose fans hand over fist if we accommodated them all.


Every tournament it's claimed that something is going to overshadow it. Remember the professional Russian hooligans and racist Eastern Europeans? Never happened. Terrorism? Never happened. Before that we had the English hooligans who were going to get us kicked out the tournament (the team always did it for them). People always remember the football.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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mariner91
June 7, 2021, 10:38pm
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Quoted from pizzzza


At least we'd have a chance of winning it.


Southgate would still see to that.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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Chrisblor
June 7, 2021, 11:44pm

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i'm very in favour of anything which riles up the worst posters on this message board so much, so yes, keep kneeling please


gary jones
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Quoted from TAGG


Because people are sick to death of others telling them that they are racist and being  told you have to conform with our opinion because its the only one


That racism is a bad thing? Thought that was a pretty universally accepted. Appears not..


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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DB
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Quoted from darren9


We’re all supposing aren’t we? It’s what a forum is for. I appear to have upset you - it wasn’t my intention and if I have I’m
sorry.  

We appear to be on opposing sides of the debate but the debate should be civilised. If I have crossed a line then again, I apologise.



Thank you for your apology which is wholeheartedly accepted.

A gold star man.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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DB
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Quoted from GrimRob
Just out of interest, do the England cricket or rugby teams take the knee, or is it just a football thing?


I don't know about cricket and Rugby but in F1 all drivers took the knee when it started. Now only some drivers take the knee while others stand, just like in our league football games where some players take the knee and others no longer do it.



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aldi_01
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Quoted from DB


I don't know about cricket and Rugby but in F1 all drivers took the knee when it started. Now only some drivers take the knee while others stand, just like in our league football games where some players take the knee and others no longer do it.



Yeh, I knew F1 definitely did it and then it became a choice for the drivers...which it fundamentally is for football. Some teams/players choose to do it. Ironically, the ones making the most noise about it are likely the so called patriotic types so the very players leading their team are indeed making that choice...

I guess it’s become a bit like the minted silence/clapping thing. Personally, apart from Remembrance Sunday/game closest, i much prefer a minutes applause but that doesn’t mean I boo or ignore the minutes silence, much like the national anthem. Remember when it seemed like every week some club or other clapped at a certain time for some fan/s ex player...if people didn’t want to they didn’t boo, they just didn’t join in.

Much like this, they’re not asking you to join in, they’re using their position to influence change and raise awareness, just because you, by you I mean the booers, don’t agree or it makes you feel uneasy doesn’t mean they can’t do that. They’re not asking you to take a knee but again, they/you cry for free speech etc...that’s exactly what they’re doing.



'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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123614
June 8, 2021, 7:29am
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So, I'm not into this political stuff and don't know enough to comment on this particular thread.  I have one question though, some players do the Black Power salute when they take a knee, is that something that is acceptable, or not?
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Croxton
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Quoted from 123614
So, I'm not into this political stuff and don't know enough to comment on this particular thread.  I have one question though, some players do the Black Power salute when they take a knee, is that something that is acceptable, or not?


A concise summary here:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53098516

My own question is, what are all the other teams in the Euros doing?
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Mariner93er
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Fans do not go to a game to be preached at; the vast, vast majority of fans would tell someone in authority if they heard any racism in a stadium so why the need for virtue signalling at games?  



Really? There’s no evidence to back this up either way, but I’d suggest that that’s way off the mark, and lots of fans turn a blind eye.

And fans don’t go to a match to be preached at, you’re right, but players don’t play in matches to be racially abused either, yet it happens every week. And I think this is what it boils down to. The main argument is that the gesture doesn’t belong on the pitch, it’s political, but it’s the racists who have brought us to the point where these gestures have become necessary. Racism isn’t limited to football, it’s a societal thing, so it should be no surprise that the current reactions/gestures on the pitch are linked to off the pitch politics and current events.

And while the gesture clearly started out as a link to BLM, it’s meaning can be whatever the individual doing it wants it to be. If the players say it’s merely a stance against racism, then it is. If they were still wearing Black Lives Matter slogans, that would obviously be different, but they’re not.
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Rick12
June 8, 2021, 8:11am
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Quoted from Mariner93er



And fans don’t go to a match to be preached at, you’re right, but players don’t play in matches to be racially abused either, yet it happens every week. And I think this is what it boils down to. The main argument is that the gesture doesn’t belong on the pitch, it’s political, but it’s the racists who have brought us to the point where these gestures have become necessary. Racism isn’t limited to football, it’s a societal thing, so it should be no surprise that the current reactions/gestures on the pitch are linked to off the pitch politics and current events.
t.
What Iam glad about though is all this talk about racism at the moment helps  filters onto other things and hopefully improve things there as well . To often whilst at school/collage and in training youngsters at football Ive seen a lot of hypocrisy which winds me up. Even amongst some teachers as well. "I hate racism" because the media/ or an anti racist  movement has gathered pace and they dont want to be on the outside. Yet quite a few of these people will go on and bully/mock someone on the basic of their academic  ability/ looks or even social standing. This affects people  personally on a deep level just as it would if someone receives racist abuse. I know because I have delt with youngsters who have been affected deeply by bullying in my job /football training . I hope one day bullying in all forms is eradicated and people can be who they are without being picked on for whatever reason. Hence variety is life.


One life,one love .
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 8, 2021, 8:47am
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Quoted from Rick12
What Iam glad about though is all this talk about racism at the moment helps  filters onto other things and hopefully improve things there as well . To often whilst at school/collage and in training youngsters at football Ive seen a lot of hypocrisy which winds me up. Even amongst some teachers as well. "I hate racism" because the media/ or an anti racist  movement has gathered pace and they dont want to be on the outside. Yet quite a few of these people will go on and bully/mock someone on the basic of their academic  ability/ looks or even social standing. This affects people  personally on a deep level just as it would if someone receives racist abuse. I know because I have delt with youngsters who have been affected deeply by bullying in my job /football training . I hope one day bullying in all forms is eradicated and people can be who they are without being picked on for whatever reason. Hence variety is life.


Good point. Bullying is fundamentally picking out someone's differences and abusing/mocking/humiliating them for that difference. If you're black, less able, LGBT or just overweight you should not be singled out for abuse because of it. And you should have the same opportunities and be treated fairly.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Rick12
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Good point. Bullying is fundamentally picking out someone's differences and abusing/mocking/humiliating them for that difference. If you're black, less able, LGBT or just overweight you should not be singled out for abuse because of it. And you should have the same opportunities and be treated fairly.
Yes Bobby. Its what I tell youngsters in one of my jobs who are underprivileged and been affected deeply by trauma. Everyone has gifts. Some people are cleverer than you but you might be better than them at football etc. Dont ever put yourself down. We all have something good to offer society if we search deep within.


One life,one love .
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BobbyCummingsTackle
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Quoted from Mariner93er


Really? There’s no evidence to back this up either way, but I’d suggest that that’s way off the mark, and lots of fans turn a blind eye.

And fans don’t go to a match to be preached at, you’re right, but players don’t play in matches to be racially abused either, yet it happens every week. And I think this is what it boils down to. The main argument is that the gesture doesn’t belong on the pitch, it’s political, but it’s the racists who have brought us to the point where these gestures have become necessary. Racism isn’t limited to football, it’s a societal thing, so it should be no surprise that the current reactions/gestures on the pitch are linked to off the pitch politics and current events.

And while the gesture clearly started out as a link to BLM, it’s meaning can be whatever the individual doing it wants it to be. If the players say it’s merely a stance against racism, then it is. If they were still wearing Black Lives Matter slogans, that would obviously be different, but they’re not.


I am 53 years old. I have attended football matches regularly since I was 8 or so. I have only ever seen someone called out for racially abusing a player once.

And abuse in the stadium is now less of an issue than abuse on social media. After losing the recent Europa League game Marcus Rashford received somewhere in the region of 70 different messages that included clear racial abuse. There is a video on the BBC website of Ian Wright showing Alan Shearer the racial abuse he receives on social media on a daily basis.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Humbercod
June 8, 2021, 9:04am
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Quoted from Rick12
What Iam glad about though is all this talk about racism.


How do we stop racism?
“Stop talking about it,” “I’m going to stop calling you a white man, and I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man.”

Morgan Freeman.
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MeanwoodMariner
June 8, 2021, 9:07am

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Quoted from Mariner93er


And while the gesture clearly started out as a link to BLM, its meaning can be whatever the individual doing it wants it to be. If the players say it’s merely a stance against racism, then it is. If they were still wearing Black Lives Matter slogans, that would obviously be different, but they’re not.


For me this is the crux of it, and where I strongly disagree. No small group of individuals gets to redefine such a world-famous prominent gesture like taking the knee. I give the benefit of the doubt to the players that they mean well, but how on earth do they think they can do the BLM kneeling gesture without everyone else in the world thinking it's supporting BLM? They're about to play in an international tournament to a global audience. The vast majority of people watching will be currently unaware of the fact that England will take the knee. They won't know who Gareth Southgate is or what he has said on the subject. All they will see is the England players taking the knee as BLM have done for months and assume it's in support of them. It's beyond naive to not recognise that.

To put it mildly, BLM have some dubious political ideas. A significant number of people will feel they are a movement the players should not be promoting. Even if you agree with everything they do, you really shouldn't be happy about the link. As an analogy, I'm an ardent remainer. I live in France and Brexit has had a massively negative impact on my life. However, if the players all did a pre-game gesture showing support for rejoining the EU I would be equally as critical.
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ska face
June 8, 2021, 9:31am

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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

As an analogy, I'm an ardent remainer. I live in France and Brexit has had a massively negative impact on my life. However, if the players all did a pre-game gesture showing support for rejoining the EU I would be equally as critical.


It’s a really, very bad analogy.

Different things are different.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 8, 2021, 9:48am
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


For me this is the crux of it, and where I strongly disagree. No small group of individuals gets to redefine such a world-famous prominent gesture like taking the knee. I give the benefit of the doubt to the players that they mean well, but how on earth do they think they can do the BLM kneeling gesture without everyone else in the world thinking it's supporting BLM? They're about to play in an international tournament to a global audience. The vast majority of people watching will be currently unaware of the fact that England will take the knee. They won't know who Gareth Southgate is or what he has said on the subject. All they will see is the England players taking the knee as BLM have done for months and assume it's in support of them. It's beyond naive to not recognise that.

To put it mildly, BLM have some dubious political ideas. A significant number of people will feel they are a movement the players should not be promoting. Even if you agree with everything they do, you really shouldn't be happy about the link. As an analogy, I'm an ardent remainer. I live in France and Brexit has had a massively negative impact on my life. However, if the players all did a pre-game gesture showing support for rejoining the EU I would be equally as critical.


Good points well argued. I think there is a 'watch out' with some of what you raise.

Black Lives Matter was not set up as a formal organisation, the phrase was used as a rallying point for black equality protests following the murder of black people by police in the US. Some groups have aligned themselves to the organisation (as much as it is an organisation) who clearly have political agendas that some will find unpalatable. Just as right wing groups attaching themselves to issues like Brexit is unpalatable to others.

The alignment of Black Lives Matter to issues like Marxism and defunding the police (which is much more of an issue in the US than in the UK) is because of those organisations who identify and align themselves with it, not BLM itself.

Furthermore, those angles are hugely amplified by the UK media because the UK media loves a bogeyman and is (in the majority of cases) run by white, rich, old men who's view of the world and comfortable existence is supported by a conservative (small C intentional) government that promotes low taxation, low oversight of business, 'flexible' business laws and a general air of letting them do whatever they want.

BLM is a direct threat to this view of the world because it is promoting change in society and a fairer, more equitable society. Fair and equitable societies lead to rich white men (who have probably been to certain schools and universities) losing their power and some of their wealth.

Britain will never be a Marxist country and we will never support defunding the police, we are just not made like that - we currently have a Conservative government with an 83 seat majority! But we also respond to some of our basic fears being stoked and BLM is a very useful vehicle for stoking those fears.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Manchester Mariner
June 8, 2021, 10:25am

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What some people see when England take the knee,

Tweet 1402183776030105602 will appear here...


Before we know it, the country will be like Venezuela. 😁


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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Quoted from Humbercod


How do we stop racism?
“Stop talking about it,” “I’m going to stop calling you a white man, and I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man.”

Morgan Freeman.


“Being a storyteller, I believe that is important to champion each other’s unique voices,” he said in the post. “For the next week, if you are willing to share the personal stories you’ve experienced with racism, I’ll dedicate my platforms to amplify your voice.

Morgan Freeman 2020

Racism is built upon ignorance and you don’t solve it with more ignorance.


“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
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Rick12
June 8, 2021, 10:43am
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Quoted from Humbercod


How do we stop racism?
“Stop talking about it,” “I’m going to stop calling you a white man, and I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man.”

Morgan Freeman.
What's most important is what someone heart is like Humbercod. This gets through to most and can help heal or go a long way to help trauma. A inspirational person I met for instance was a Sikh math teacher  who helped me enormously whilst at collage. Had a beautiful heart.  



One life,one love .
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123614
June 8, 2021, 11:25am
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The alignment of Black Lives Matter to issues like Marxism and defunding the police (which is much more of an issue in the US than in the UK) is because of those organisations who identify and align themselves with it, not BLM itself.

.


I beg to differ, a casual search will bring this up from BlackLivesMatter.com.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-defunding-the-police-really-means/

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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 8, 2021, 11:41am
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Quoted from 123614


I beg to differ, a casual search will bring this up from BlackLivesMatter.com.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-defunding-the-police-really-means/



You put a link to the US Black Lives Matter website where defunding the police is an aim, it is not such an issue in the UK because the police are not seen as a direct danger to the black community. The very source of BLM was US police officers shooting black 'suspects' with no apparent regard for the value of their lives.

You have used a US website to support a myopic view of BLM in a discussion about whether England players should take the knee or not before a football match. This website proves or illustrates nothing about the UK BLM organisation (in as much as it is one), it's aims or motives.

Even the phrase 'defund' the police is misappropriated by those wishing to paint BLM as a threat to society. It is presented in the right wing press as a move to abandon policing and introduce anarchy. In fact the idea varies and is interpreted widely by a number of groups under the BLM banner from radical changes (NOT in the UK) to funding reviews to use part of budgets that normally go to the police for other purposes that still promote law and order.

You have also chosen to ignore my comment about accepting that BLM has attracted some elements that some people find unpalatable.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 8, 2021, 11:56am
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I have fallen into a trap here and I'm kicking myself for it.

The debate is not about BLM it is about black people being abused for the colour of their skin in the UK today and that is unacceptable and has to change.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Marinerdan
June 8, 2021, 12:19pm

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I’ve been thinking about what to write here so apologies if it’s a bit longwinded.

I’m white and my partner is black. We’re both from working class backgrounds, my dad was a decky and her mum was a nurse.

Growing up I didn’t know anyone that was black. I didn’t know anyone who wasn’t English, white and working class. In this environment it’s very easy to assume racism isn’t a big issue.

Since I’ve been with my partner I’ve seen a lot of first hand racism, from sly little comments about ‘dark fruit’ to people shouting ‘flipping black person’ in the street outside our house. My wife is a specialist doctor and even had somebody refuse to let her daughter see her as she wanted her to see somebody ‘more like her’.

This type of obvious racism is clearly unacceptable in the modern world and the vast, vast majority of people would see it as abhorrent and speak out against it when they see it. Thankfully it’s a rare occurrence to witness it, especially if you’re white.

Sports like football are one of the very few meritocracies in the world. It really doesn’t matter what class, race or religion you are, if you are good enough and driven enough you can make it. This is going to produce a diverse group of players and it’s not surprising that they are keen to make a stand against racism.

I really can’t see how a few seconds of kneeling before a game can get anyone so wound up. I can’t see any reason to pay to go to game and choose to boo your own players before a ball has been kicked!  


UTM
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123614
June 8, 2021, 12:27pm
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You put a link to the US Black Lives Matter website where defunding the police is an aim, it is not such an issue in the UK because the police are not seen as a direct danger to the black community. The very source of BLM was US police officers shooting black 'suspects' with no apparent regard for the value of their lives.

You have used a US website to support a myopic view of BLM in a discussion about whether England players should take the knee or not before a football match. This website proves or illustrates nothing about the UK BLM organisation (in as much as it is one), it's aims or motives.

Even the phrase 'defund' the police is misappropriated by those wishing to paint BLM as a threat to society. It is presented in the right wing press as a move to abandon policing and introduce anarchy. In fact the idea varies and is interpreted widely by a number of groups under the BLM banner from radical changes (NOT in the UK) to funding reviews to use part of budgets that normally go to the police for other purposes that still promote law and order.

You have also chosen to ignore my comment about accepting that BLM has attracted some elements that some people find unpalatable.


This debate has talked about much more than just UK footballers taking the knee.  Also, NO ONE has picked up the Black Power salute comment I made, are you choosing to ignore that, even Marcus Rashford has been seen to do that whilst taking the knee.

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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 8, 2021, 12:38pm
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Quoted from 123614


This debate has talked about much more than just UK footballers taking the knee.  Also, NO ONE has picked up the Black Power salute comment I made, are you choosing to ignore that, even Marcus Rashford has been seen to do that whilst taking the knee.



I am unclear on why you raised the black power salute. Would you please expand on your view of it and why it is a good or bad thing.

Thank you.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Grimsbynewhope
June 8, 2021, 12:48pm
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When it gets to the point of so called supporters booing their own team for showing support for their team mates something is very wrong
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LH
June 8, 2021, 1:06pm

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Quoted from Manchester Mariner
What some people see when England take the knee,

Tweet 1402183776030105602 will appear here...


Before we know it, the country will be like Venezuela. 😁


There’ll be a few on here wondering what the connection between Santa Claus and kneeling is in that image.
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aldi_01
June 8, 2021, 1:12pm

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Quoted from LH


There’ll be a few on here wondering what the connection between Santa Claus and kneeling is in that image.


Some will probably think it’s Darwin...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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Grimsbynewhope
June 8, 2021, 1:16pm
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….or Jeremy Corbin
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Nelly GTFC
June 8, 2021, 1:18pm
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First and last post on this.  I'm not bothered if the players want to take the knee or not, their choice, if they want to, then fine, if not, then fine.
I'm not going to lose sleep over it either way, or waste my time and breath booing the tv like that idiot on twitter lol, what a load of bollox.


Performance / Top Scorers / Assists / Discipline - Grimsby Town Statistics >> https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/squad/_/id/386/eng.grimsby
Form Over Last 10 Games - Grimsby Town >> https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/grimsby-town/form-guide/ten
Player Contracts - Grimsby Town >> http://codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=4202
Links on football clubs inc Grimsby Town >> https://footballclubforums.com/
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Maringer
June 8, 2021, 1:41pm
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David Squires is good on this one as usual:

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....-of-english-football

(N.B. If you feel your blood pressure rising at the sight of a link to The Graun, just don't bother clicking on it).
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DB
June 8, 2021, 3:07pm
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Life is full of choices for us to make, good or bad, liked or disliked but what we all have to do is accept each other's choice. What we read is somebody's personal preference and what democracy, freedom of speech and this site is all about.

The OT is all about England players taking the knee and for me it is up to each individual player to make his choice. This statement about a 'collective' decision really means people acting as a group and does not reflect the opinion of individuals but more of the majority.

As for the booing of your own team, for whatever reason, before the match had kicked off is not for me. Some may say they are expressing an opinion, free speech, etc. How would these same people react if players went up to them and criticised them for their actions? Would that be free speech and expressing an opinion?

The only person I think getting any pleasure from this thread is Yoda, when he started it way after the match started. As Yoda put it ' I think it just creates issues', so thinking it will create issues, which it certainly has, why start it in the first place? To cause unnecessary dialogue?

No individual on here is going to solve the issue of taking the knee so perhaps it's better to let sleeping dogs lie, as the saying goes. As someone posted this issue as well and been discussed before so all us should let it  be.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Yoda
June 8, 2021, 3:54pm
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It divides more than unites.
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sonofmadeleymariner
June 8, 2021, 4:05pm
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I don't think they should take a knee, the link with BLM splits opinions and causes more division then unity which hurts the cause more then helps.

They should find their own way to make their opinion heard, link arms or something instead.


I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas

The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara

I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
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codcheeky
June 8, 2021, 4:56pm
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I don't think they should take a knee, the link with BLM splits opinions and causes more division then unity which hurts the cause more then helps.

They should find their own way to make their opinion heard, link arms or something instead.


You think that linking arms would not be booed by the racist morons?
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sonofmadeleymariner
June 8, 2021, 5:14pm
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Quoted from codcheeky


You think that linking arms would not be booed by the racist morons?


No matter what you do in football you will have zero impact on racist, they are going to boo anything that is antiracist, but if you take away the BLM aspect of the protest you then take away a large part of the arguement of those who oppose it because of the link to the group.

Theres no point in continuing something that does the opposite to what its intended, at the moment taking the knee causes more divsion then it does unity it is thus failing so change it. Find a new way for footballer to show their protest. You wouldn't see a company like BMW continuing an ad campaign that clearly hurts their profits, over and over again, they'd just change the ad, same applies here. Change the protest change the atmosphere around the protest you'll also help to root out those closest racists in the process as they wouldn't have a leg to stand on as the protest no longer has the link.


I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas

The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara

I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 8, 2021, 6:41pm
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No matter what you do in football you will have zero impact on racist, they are going to boo anything that is antiracist, but if you take away the BLM aspect of the protest you then take away a large part of the arguement of those who oppose it because of the link to the group.

Theres no point in continuing something that does the opposite to what its intended, at the moment taking the knee causes more divsion then it does unity it is thus failing so change it. Find a new way for footballer to show their protest. You wouldn't see a company like BMW continuing an ad campaign that clearly hurts their profits, over and over again, they'd just change the ad, same applies here. Change the protest change the atmosphere around the protest you'll also help to root out those closest racists in the process as they wouldn't have a leg to stand on as the protest no longer has the link.


Taking a knee pre dates the BLM movement and is not a BLM specific gesture, it is an anti racism gesture.

It can be traced back to Martin Luther King who kneeled to lead prayers at a protest against civil rights protesters being arrested for 'parading without a permit', in Selma (Alabama) in 1965.

The link with BLM is made by those looking to undermine the validity of an anti racism gesture. The link to BLM was first made by Donald Trump, when president, who attacked NFL players for being anti American when they took the knee during the national anthem. You will recall that he demanded the NFL sack "those sons of b*tches" for the gesture. Several franchise owners tried to stop their players taking the knee.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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lew chaterleys lover
June 8, 2021, 9:18pm
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It will only be a matter of time before those taking the knee will be caught out with an ill-judged tweet from their past, and then another witch hunt will begin. It won't necessarily be racist in nature, but something that upsets the permanently offended brigade.

I see England cricketers are scrambling to delete any dubious tweets from their past in response to the events of this week. I am sure a lot of pre twitter Fishy posters said things they regret, but Twitter will bring careers to a premature end if this carries on.

Those taking the knee better be sure they are confident they have not said anything in the past that will come back to haunt them.
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carrot top
June 8, 2021, 9:34pm

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Ffs I’m tired of this and just want footy for what it is. It’s all tripe being fuelled by MSM


[color=black]The Ecky 1977
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codcheeky
June 8, 2021, 9:39pm
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It will only be a matter of time before those taking the knee will be caught out with an ill-judged tweet from their past, and then another witch hunt will begin. It won't necessarily be racist in nature, but something that upsets the permanently offended brigade.

I see England cricketers are scrambling to delete any dubious tweets from their past in response to the events of this week. I am sure a lot of pre twitter Fishy posters said things they regret, but Twitter will bring careers to a premature end if this carries
Those taking the knee better be sure they are confident they have not said anything in the past that will come back to haunt them.


Perhaps people should think twice about the racist and sexist opinions they throw out into the world, the internet is very unforgiving, quite a large number of companies check social media history as a matter of course when hiring these days,
If you are not a racist you will have no record of racist messages on social media, it is not a good look to say, “my tweets are racist and sexist but I am not” as the cricketer just has.
He was racist and sexist enough to feel he had to tweet it and and now isn’t any more because these messages have resurfaced and he realises his hateful views may affect his career.
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123614
June 8, 2021, 9:55pm
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I am unclear on why you raised the black power salute. Would you please expand on your view of it and why it is a good or bad thing.

Thank you.


Do your own research, I'm not doing it for you.  Google Malcom X, the Black Panthers in the mid sixties, that should give you plenty to look at.

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lew chaterleys lover
June 8, 2021, 9:57pm
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Quoted from codcheeky


Perhaps people should think twice about the racist and sexist opinions they throw out into the world, the internet is very unforgiving, quite a large number of companies check social media history as a matter of course when hiring these days,
If you are not a racist you will have no record of racist messages on social media, it is not a good look to say, “my tweets are racist and sexist but I am not” as the cricketer just has.
He was racist and sexist enough to feel he had to tweet it and and now isn’t any more because these messages have resurfaced and he realises his hateful views may affect his career.


Perhaps they should, but they never expected to be put under such scrutiny. Once this can of worms is opened, it will just continue till some tweet is found - or pre-Twitter -  some comment or other that will rebound on those passing judgment now. It won't be just sexist or racial comments of course, it will be something that you or I might find fascinating, or amusing, but to someone, somewhere it will be unacceptable. There is no end to this - there are so many facets of human behaviour that some people find offensive and anybody in the public eye beware.

Personally, I have never really understood the fascination with social media (apart from the Fishy), but those that live their life by it will surely be worrying about their output. The cricketer was a kid; people develop at different rates and the thought of his career being curtailed because of something he tweeted when he was an immature young man seems very harsh indeed.  
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Civvy at last
June 8, 2021, 10:04pm

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Quoted from codcheeky


Perhaps people should think twice about the racist and sexist opinions they throw out into the world, the internet is very unforgiving, quite a large number of companies check social media history as a matter of course when hiring these days,
If you are not a racist you will have no record of racist messages on social media, it is not a good look to say, “my tweets are racist and sexist but I am not” as the cricketer just has.
He was racist and sexist enough to feel he had to tweet it and and now isn’t any more because these messages have resurfaced and he realises his hateful views may affect his career.


So do you think Nelson Mandela should never have been released from prison, or been allowed to move on from his crimes ??  I for one am glad he was.


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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LH
June 8, 2021, 10:06pm

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Partly agree with the above. I don’t think you can really tell what a person is like until their mid 20s. If they’re still a male private head then all hope is lost.
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ginnywings
June 8, 2021, 10:09pm

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Started to read this thread, saw the word Marxist about a dozen times in the first three or four pages and gave up.

Nothing has changed from the last time we had a massive thread on the subject.

If you are offended enough to boo some footballers kneeling for 10 seconds, you need to have a look at yourselves. By all means disagree with the stance, it's a free country, but booing is just your need to let everyone else know how offended you are.

I personally don't agree with having a Royal Family in a modern society, but I don't feel the need to boo the National Anthem.
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lew chaterleys lover
June 8, 2021, 10:16pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
Started to read this thread, saw the word Marxist about a dozen times in the first three or four pages and gave up.

Nothing has changed from the last time we had a massive thread on the subject.

If you are offended enough to boo some footballers kneeling for 10 seconds, you need to have a look at yourselves. By all means disagree with the stance, it's a free country, but booing is just your need to let everyone else know how offended you are.

I personally don't agree with having a Royal Family in a modern society, but I don't feel the need to boo the National Anthem.


But you did say some terrible things (in my eyes at least)  when Prince Philip passed away. It was not terrible to you, because I presume you are a republican, so why is booing any different to you saying things that you don't agree with?
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codcheeky
June 8, 2021, 10:27pm
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Quoted from Civvy at last


So do you think Nelson Mandela should never have been released from prison, or been allowed to move on from his crimes ??  I for one am glad he was.


A very strange comparison, perhaps you are highlighting the power of sportsmen and sportswomen along with others completely boycotting and isolating that racist country.
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Civvy at last
June 8, 2021, 10:36pm

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Quoted from codcheeky


A very strange comparison, perhaps you are highlighting the power of sportsmen and sportswomen along with others completely boycotting and isolating that racist country.


Could have compared it with many others but obviously chose one that you would identify with. The point I am making is that people can change as they mature. You aren’t happy to give them that chance. Just out of interest, what are your thoughts on rehabilitation ??


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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MarinerWY
June 8, 2021, 11:09pm

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Audibly booing players for taking a stance against racism is flipping moronic.

Not accepting apologies for idiotic, bigoted comments made when someone was much much younger, immature and ignorant, is also flipping moronic.

People have to be able to be able to learn and grow, and to share regret and apologise.

So in conclusion, if anyone who was booing the England players shares regret and apologises for their idiotic, bigoted actions, they should be given the space to learn and grow.
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sonofmadeleymariner
June 9, 2021, 12:02am
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Taking a knee pre dates the BLM movement and is not a BLM specific gesture, it is an anti racism gesture.

It can be traced back to Martin Luther King who kneeled to lead prayers at a protest against civil rights protesters being arrested for 'parading without a permit', in Selma (Alabama) in 1965.

The link with BLM is made by those looking to undermine the validity of an anti racism gesture. The link to BLM was first made by Donald Trump, when president, who attacked NFL players for being anti American when they took the knee during the national anthem. You will recall that he demanded the NFL sack "those sons of b*tches" for the gesture. Several franchise owners tried to stop their players taking the knee.


Oh I know all that. I know MLK was doing way back in the 60s, I watched the match live when Kaepernick took the knee during the US national anthem it was against Green Bay I do believe, but right now it is linked to a group that split opinions for various reason. So why continue to do a gesture that at the moment causes division when you're trying to show unity. Come up with your own stance wear the kick it out tshirts during warm ups and during the national anthem ( but that will never happen as its not profitable).


I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas

The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara

I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
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GYinScuntland
June 9, 2021, 1:00am

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Can't wait for the Fishy going china syndrome when BLM open their first LGBTI chapter.
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KingstonMariner
June 9, 2021, 1:24am
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Apologies if it’s been posted before but

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....-of-english-football


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
June 9, 2021, 1:26am
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Oh I know all that. I know MLK was doing way back in the 60s, I watched the match live when Kaepernick took the knee during the US national anthem it was against Green Bay I do believe, but right now it is linked to a group that split opinions for various reason. So why continue to do a gesture that at the moment causes division when you're trying to show unity. Come up with your own stance wear the kick it out tshirts during warm ups and during the national anthem ( but that will never happen as its not profitable).


It’s only splitting opinion because you disagree with it! Talk about self-fulfilling prophecy.

“I’m against it because I don’t like it.” Is basically what I’m saying.

Have a think about that one again.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Rick12
June 9, 2021, 6:38am
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Quoted from codcheeky


Perhaps people should think twice about the racist and sexist opinions they throw out into the world, the internet is very unforgiving, quite a large number of companies check social media history as a matter of course when hiring these days,
If you are not a racist you will have no record of racist messages on social media, it is not a good look to say, “my tweets are racist and sexist but I am not” as the cricketer just has.
He was racist and sexist enough to feel he had to tweet it and and now isn’t any more because these messages have resurfaced and he realises his hateful views may affect his career.
Depending on peoples background/culture  some are more exposed to racist views some overt and discreet which can shape thinking growing up. When you see documentary's on tv about ex white supremacy gang members changing for the better and trying to rid themselves of these views it has to respected. In all our lives particularly when young we will all make mistakes. If its not racist it will be bullying ,if not that it will be stealing something from the shop when were a youth, bunking of school and the list goes on. I like what a favourite priest of mine says Fr Josh Johnson is American and one of the few black born  American  priests out there. "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future-Oscar Wilde".Everyone has the power to change for the better if they so wish and choose.


One life,one love .
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codcheeky
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Quoted from Civvy at last


Could have compared it with many others but obviously chose one that you would identify with. The point I am making is that people can change as they mature. You aren’t happy to give them that chance. Just out of interest, what are your thoughts on rehabilitation ??


Yes everyone makes mistakes and does and says things they regret, however too many that are willing to post offensive things are not ready to post anything showing they have changed until they are called out.  
Everyone deserves a second chance, I am not calling for that cricketer to banned for life but theECB have made the right decision to suspend him.  Hopefully it will act as a caution to others.
Rehabilitation is about admitting you are wrong, accepting the consequences and learning from it. Hopefully this young man has done that and he has apologised, I am sure once the case is reviewed he will say all the right things and be back representing his country in the future
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ginnywings
June 9, 2021, 7:12am

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But you did say some terrible things (in my eyes at least)  when Prince Philip passed away. It was not terrible to you, because I presume you are a republican, so why is booing any different to you saying things that you don't agree with?


Hmm!

Prince Philip. That paragon of multi cultural inclusion.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
June 9, 2021, 7:47am
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Oh I know all that. I know MLK was doing way back in the 60s, I watched the match live when Kaepernick took the knee during the US national anthem it was against Green Bay I do believe, but right now it is linked to a group that split opinions for various reason. So why continue to do a gesture that at the moment causes division when you're trying to show unity. Come up with your own stance wear the kick it out tshirts during warm ups and during the national anthem ( but that will never happen as its not profitable).


Why continue to link taking the knee, BLM and Marxism? Why not unite around the concept of racism is a bad thing in society and should be eradicated?


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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June 9, 2021, 7:49am
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Quoted from 123614


Do your own research, I'm not doing it for you.  Google Malcom X, the Black Panthers in the mid sixties, that should give you plenty to look at.



I asked for your view, not the historical fact.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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codcheeky
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Humbercod
June 9, 2021, 12:59pm
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Nothing to do with BLM keep kneeling🤔

Tweet 1402533066556444675 will appear here...
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ska face
June 9, 2021, 1:21pm

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Keep crying.
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mariner91
June 9, 2021, 2:21pm
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It’s amazing how the ones who brand others as ‘snowflakes’ are always the ones who get most upset about things.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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Humbercod
June 9, 2021, 3:26pm
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Quoted from mariner91
It’s amazing how the ones who brand others as ‘snowflakes’ are always the ones who get most upset about things.


Upset is the wrong word where fascism is concerned.
Amazing how the lefty’s found no problem with the FA when they stopped the Poppy’s on the shirts!

Keep feeding that crocodile he will never come for you😀
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Humbercod
June 9, 2021, 3:27pm
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Quoted from ska face
Keep crying.


Keep sucking!
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June 9, 2021, 3:30pm
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Quoted from Humbercod


Upset is the wrong word where fascism is concerned.
Amazing how the lefty’s found no problem with the FA when they stopped the Poppy’s on the shirts!

Keep feeding that crocodile he will never come for you😀


Probably cause that was FIFA who don’t allow any political/religious imagery on any kits.

I thought they were Marxists?! Now they’re fascists?! I can’t keep up and evidently, neither can you.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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tashee69
June 9, 2021, 4:22pm

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Why didn’t they just choose to do something that wasn’t linked to any movement and get the vast majority of people behind them, instead of it splitting them. There wouldn’t have been all these problems then. Guess that was too much of a simple solution.


Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !!
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Humbercod
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Quoted from mariner91


Probably cause that was FIFA who don’t allow any political/religious imagery on any kits.

I thought they were Marxists?! Now they’re fascists?! I can’t keep up and evidently, neither can you.


I thought common sense had prevailed and FIFA eventually backed the decision on god-forbid our remembrance?
BLM is Marxist!... hey if their leader says so then I would presume there is a good chance that they are 😲

I would certainly class the extreme members of BLM who pull down statues they don’t like, desecrate our war memorials, attack people even the police for not taking the knee as left wing fascists.

Look I’ve already gave a solution stop kneeling and do another gesture linking hands for example I guarantee it would stop.
Millwall football fans were lambasted for booing the taking of the  knee, stereotyped as per the usual knuckle dragging racists, but in the next game when the players linked arms and held up a banner against racism they all cheered!
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A Brace Of Tees
June 9, 2021, 10:13pm
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No I'm afraid they should not because it's achieving nothing - in fact it's counter-productive and is probably making the situation worse.

Firstly, I don't believe the majority of those fans who were booing did so because they're 'racist'. They just don't like being lectured to in such a patronising way by the likes of Gary Lineker and his woke friends.

Secondly, racism was at its most serious 50 years ago during the civil rights movement in America and the apartheid system in South Africa. Racial equality has made massive strides since then and what we see today pales into insignificance - the current protests are instigated by people who have no sense of proportion and little or no understanding of history.

Thirdly, Martin Luther King once famously said that he hoped one day that people wouldn't be identified by the colour of their skin, but by their character. Sadly, the current political posturing is obsessed by  people's skin colour, which is an insult to the memory of Dr King.

If we keep banging on about some brainless nutter posting a racist tweet, then all we're doing is giving them the oxygen of publicity - and this merely spurs them on to do it again. Ignore them, and eventually they will get bored and find something else to do.
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Vance Warner
June 9, 2021, 10:27pm
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Quoted from A Brace Of Tees
No I'm afraid they should not because it's achieving nothing - in fact it's counter-productive and is probably making the situation worse.

Firstly, I don't believe the majority of those fans who were booing did so because they're 'racist'. They just don't like being lectured to in such a patronising way by the likes of Gary Lineker and his woke friends.

Secondly, racism was at its most serious 50 years ago during the civil rights movement in America and the apartheid system in South Africa. Racial equality has made massive strides since then and what we see today pales into insignificance - the current protests are instigated by people who have no sense of proportion and little or no understanding of history.

Thirdly, Martin Luther King once famously said that he hoped one day that people wouldn't be identified by the colour of their skin, but by their character. Sadly, the current political posturing is obsessed by  people's skin colour, which is an insult to the memory of Dr King.

If we keep banging on about some brainless nutter posting a racist tweet, then all we're doing is giving them the oxygen of publicity - and this merely spurs them on to do it again. Ignore them, and eventually they will get bored and find something else to do.


Wow - I don’t even know where to start. In relation to your first point if you don’t want to be patronised stop pretending that you know about racial equality when you clearly haven’t got a fuck1ng clue
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TAGG
June 9, 2021, 11:04pm

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Quoted from Vance Warner


Wow - I don’t even know where to start. In relation to your first point if you don’t want to be patronised stop pretending that you know about racial equality when you clearly haven’t got a fuck1ng clue


Because like all you left wing fascists, anyone that disagrees with your narrative they ''clearly haven't got a clue''
There is no other opinion other than a left wing opinion.

In regard to his first point he's spot on.
Just read this thread to see how dividing all this balderdash is.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
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ska face
June 9, 2021, 11:07pm

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Someone disagreeing with you on the Internet isn’t fascism. Please understand this as a starting point.
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aldi_01
June 9, 2021, 11:16pm

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I mean lefty fascist is an oxymoron to some extent…


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
June 9, 2021, 11:21pm
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Quoted from aldi_01
I mean lefty fascist is an oxymoron to some extent…


You mean like National Socialist?



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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A Brace Of Tees
June 10, 2021, 6:11am
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Quoted from aldi_01
I mean lefty fascist is an oxymoron to some extent…


No it isn't.

The jew-hating thugs from 'Momentum' who supported Jeremy Corbyn was facism at its most frightening.
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Vance Warner
June 10, 2021, 6:15am
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Quoted from TAGG


Because like all you left wing fascists, anyone that disagrees with your narrative they ''clearly haven't got a clue''
There is no other opinion other than a left wing opinion.

In regard to his first point he's spot on.
Just read this thread to see how dividing all this balderdash is.


In relation to the post the opinion expressed is that racial inequality pales into insignificance compared to the past and that black people protesting have no idea of their history. Not sure which part of that I can agree with to be honest. If racism is divisive then it’s the racists that need to change
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A Brace Of Tees
June 10, 2021, 6:37am
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Quoted from Vance Warner


In relation to the post the opinion expressed is that racial inequality pales into insignificance compared to the past and that black people protesting have no idea of their history. Not sure which part of that I can agree with to be honest. If racism is divisive then it’s the racists that need to change


How about you read my post more carefully instead of lashing out like a wounded dog? And tell me where I've said black people have no idea of their history?

Many people on the BLM marches were white, middle class people who love nothing better than a mindless protest.


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monkeyboy
June 10, 2021, 7:05am
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Taking the knee is to be subserviant. i will not bend thy knee to no man regadless of race.
Absolute twaddle they are still doing this, its creating more bitterness than it is helping. Pathetic!
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Vance Warner
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Quoted from A Brace Of Tees


How about you read my post more carefully instead of lashing out like a wounded dog? And tell me where I've said black people have no idea of their history?

Many people on the BLM marches were white, middle class people who love nothing better than a mindless protest.




Apologies if you think I’ve lashed out and that’s offended you.

The comment in question is below

‘the current protests are instigated by people who have no sense of proportion and little or no understanding of history’

That reads to me like you suggest black people have no understanding of history. Unless you are suggesting that the protests are instigated by white people in which case you don’t need to be so scared of BLM and Marxism

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KingstonMariner
June 21, 2021, 2:41am
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I’m sure the following example of Marxist Dialectics is going through the collective mind of all those dangerous trained Marxist-Leninists like Tyrone Mings, Mason Mount and Raherm Stirling when they take the knee.



Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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123614
June 28, 2021, 9:45am
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Interesting to see several of the teams in the Euro's are not taking the knee.
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Stadium
July 11, 2021, 11:26am
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“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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He is but I suppose at least he isn't trying to weasel out of his previous comments like Pritti Patel and Boris Johnson.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Manchester Mariner
July 11, 2021, 3:10pm

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Quoted from Stadium


Haha. Hes nailed the epitome of cutting your nose off to spite your face. What a male private. No doubt thinks footballers should be seen but not heard apart from when they're in old school football magazines saying their favourite food is Steak and chips and favourite TV show Fools and Horses.



"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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Stadium
July 12, 2021, 10:22pm
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Priti Patel booted into row z.

Tweet 1414655312074784785 will appear here...



“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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KingstonMariner
July 13, 2021, 12:01am
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I was just going to post that link Stadium.

Anyone who still thinks ill of the kneeling gesture is clearly a racist or an idiot or both. I’m sure they’ll try to come squirming back with a mealy mouthed excuse. But there really is no excuse.


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I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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DB
July 13, 2021, 1:12pm
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Quoted from Stadium
Priti Patel booted into row z.

Tweet 1414655312074784785 will appear here...



She's the Home Secretary so she shouldn't back the police, she should tell them what to do in no uncertain terms and to clamp down on all racism. She should lead from the front and not the rear, if she can't she should resign, or Boris sack her (Ho Ho).



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Humbercod
July 13, 2021, 8:58pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
I was just going to post that link Stadium.

Anyone who still thinks ill of the kneeling gesture is clearly a racist or an idiot or both. I’m sure they’ll try to come squirming back with a mealy mouthed excuse. But there really is no excuse.


What a silly post. I take it the likes of John Barnes, Wilfried Zaha and Les Ferdinand go into your idiot category!
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Great to see the narcissistic Priti Patel put in her place. She must be seething not being able to respond directly.


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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July 16, 2021, 2:23am
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So much for GB News viewers love of free speech. Cancel Culture in action 😆

https://amp.theguardian.com/me.....over-taking-the-knee

Just shows that right wingers are the biggest bunch of whinging snowflakes. “ooh I’m really offended by his gesture”. I think the phrases “suck it up” and “grow a pair” are often used in situations like this.


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I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
July 16, 2021, 2:24am
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Quoted from Humbercod


What a silly post. I take it the likes of John Barnes, Wilfried Zaha and Les Ferdinand go into your idiot category!


Do they think ill if it? Are they actually anti taking the knee or do they just think it doesn’t do any good?

Where do you sit? Are you an idiot or a racist? Or both (there’s a hell of an overlap on that Venn diagram). 😆


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Humbercod
July 16, 2021, 8:22am
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Do they think ill if it? Are they actually anti taking the knee or do they just think it doesn’t do any good?

Where do you sit? Are you an idiot or a racist? Or both (there’s a hell of an overlap on that Venn diagram). 😆


I’m with John Barnes and co, it’s nothing but an empty gesture that detracts from real racism. All they are doing is causing devision it’s BLM politically motivated despite what they say. What’s wrong with bringing everyone altogether by standing up against racism? no one would be against this, except maybe racist’s from the subcontinent and twisted far left antagonisers😆
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lew chaterleys lover
July 16, 2021, 11:38am
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Quoted from Humbercod


I’m with John Barnes and co, it’s nothing but an empty gesture that detracts from real racism. All they are doing is causing devision it’s BLM politically motivated despite what they say. What’s wrong with bringing everyone altogether by standing up against racism? no one would be against this, except maybe racist’s from the subcontinent and twisted far left antagonisers😆


This exactly.

Everyone could see what was coming.

All the years of hard work of governments, football authorities, the PFA, charitable agencies and workplaces all forgotten about because you are either for or against a silly gesture at a football match, which has nothing behind it in terms of legislation or action and has just made things a whole lot worse. To choose such a gesture that is the unique selling point of a vile political movement was sheer stupidity. It is no good the players bleating that they saw the gesture as different to BLM, when the taking of the knee was exactly what the BLM movement was doing. Any other gesture, say with both teams linking arms or some such would have been better if they insisted on bringing the political arena into the sport.

It was an agent provocateurs dream scenario of dividing the country, and as soon as the appropriate moment (from their point of view) came with the black players missing the penalties, they took their anonymous venomous bile to Twitter to cause maximum discomfort.

Twitter is not real life; a lot of the accounts saying despicable things were based abroad and were probably automated, and how stupid of some fans to take to Twitter or other social media straight after the game to say grotesque things they would never dream of saying to any player"s face, but now lets hope they are tracked down and feel the full weight of the law.

A great tournament and the fact that England reached the final has been completely overshadowed by what happened after the final whistle.
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Rick12
July 16, 2021, 12:00pm
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Quoted from Humbercod


I’m with John Barnes and co, it’s nothing but an empty gesture that detracts from real racism. All they are doing is causing devision it’s BLM politically motivated despite what they say. What’s wrong with bringing everyone altogether by standing up against racism? no one would be against this, except maybe racist’s from the subcontinent and twisted far left antagonisers😆

I think Humbercod you and Kingston do make valid points in the grand scheme of things  but I don't like the sarcasm you sometimes see on here as in life. All it does is wind people up. Granted though if someone gives it out you have to defend yourself or some may walk all over you.

I think Bukayo Saka sums it up though. He is a Christian but reflects other religious denomination views and even that of science.

" In the end love always wins".


One life,one love .
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Ipswin
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Just watched a speech on You Tube by Peter de Vries the Dutch crime reporter who died last night after being shot in Amsterdam. De Vries was perhaps best known for his work on cold cases – ensuring that several high profile murders were finally resolved years after the fact. But he also fought for refugee rights and was a staunch critic of racism and far right politics.

His motto was I thought very relevant to everyone with 'a cause' (anti-slavery, BLM racism etc) to support or a way they wish to conduct their lives

'On bended knee is no way to be free'



On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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Stadium
July 17, 2021, 12:20pm
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What an embarrassment of a so called news channel
Zero viewers.........

https://www.standard.co.uk/new.....-racism-b946169.html



“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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Manchester Mariner
July 17, 2021, 12:37pm

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Quoted from Stadium
What an embarrassment of a so called news channel
Zero viewers.........

https://www.standard.co.uk/new.....-racism-b946169.html


Looks like after the early morbid curiosity that it might be car crash TV people just aren't fussed enough to watch it.


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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lew chaterleys lover
July 17, 2021, 1:37pm
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Quoted from Manchester Mariner


Looks like after the early morbid curiosity that it might be car crash TV people just aren't fussed enough to watch it.


That is a great shame, as surely nobody would be against issues being discussed from all viewpoints which is what it was designed for as an antidote to the BBC and Sky.

However, I must agree that it has been a disappointment. We are used to seeing very slick rolling news outlets, and regular if somewhat repetitive news bulletins. GB News chose the wrong format I think - they would have been wiser to follow the rolling news format and have guests from different perspectives that are not given air time on the other two big news channels, giving their opinions on the news. Instead, they seemed to choose sofa style discussions which is much more difficult to dip in and out of during the day. Understandably it is not as slick and glitzy as the big two, and it is rather jarring in this day and age.

I think it will need a relaunch, changing the format to mimic the other two, but of course, still having a greater variety of viewpoints and trying to make it more in line with today's expectations of qualtiy.
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Stadium
July 17, 2021, 6:07pm
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That is a great shame, as surely nobody would be against issues being discussed from all viewpoints which is what it was designed for as an antidote to the BBC and Sky.

However, I must agree that it has been a disappointment. We are used to seeing very slick rolling news outlets, and regular if somewhat repetitive news bulletins. GB News chose the wrong format I think - they would have been wiser to follow the rolling news format and have guests from different perspectives that are not given air time on the other two big news channels, giving their opinions on the news. Instead, they seemed to choose sofa style discussions which is much more difficult to dip in and out of during the day. Understandably it is not as slick and glitzy as the big two, and it is rather jarring in this day and age.

I think it will need a relaunch, changing the format to mimic the other two, but of course, still having a greater variety of viewpoints and trying to make it more in line with today's expectations of qualtiy.



Don't panic they've recruited Nigel Farage.  

https://www.cityam.com/nigel-farage-announces-a-big-career-change/



“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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ginnywings
July 17, 2021, 7:48pm

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That is a great shame, as surely nobody would be against issues being discussed from all viewpoints which is what it was designed for as an antidote to the BBC and Sky.


However, I must agree that it has been a disappointment. We are used to seeing very slick rolling news outlets, and regular if somewhat repetitive news bulletins. GB News chose the wrong format I think - they would have been wiser to follow the rolling news format and have guests from different perspectives that are not given air time on the other two big news channels, giving their opinions on the news. Instead, they seemed to choose sofa style discussions which is much more difficult to dip in and out of during the day. Understandably it is not as slick and glitzy as the big two, and it is rather jarring in this day and age.

I think it will need a relaunch, changing the format to mimic the other two, but of course, still having a greater variety of viewpoints and trying to make it more in line with today's expectations of qualtiy.


No it wasn't. It was designed to be the equivalent of Fox news in America and give a right wing view of the world by and for people who are convinced the BBC is left wing.

Hope it dies a death.
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lew chaterleys lover
July 17, 2021, 9:29pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


No it wasn't. It was designed to be the equivalent of Fox news in America and give a right wing view of the world by and for people who are convinced the BBC is left wing.

Hope it dies a death.


Sir Keir Starmer should watch it - it might give him a handle on what former Labour voters might be interested in  
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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from Stadium



Don't panic they've recruited Nigel Farage.  

https://www.cityam.com/nigel-farage-announces-a-big-career-change/


Yippee! All is not lost.  
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Stadium
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Yippee! All is not lost.  


Exactly,let's see what untruths he'll spin on his latest venture.   



“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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Imagine being so flipping woeful that your attempt at salvation is the biggest mercenary of the lot…

The whole thing is amateur, if you’re in to that right wing, hate everything type of thing there are slicker videos on YouTube.


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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ska face
July 18, 2021, 6:51pm

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Sir Keir Starmer should watch it - it might give him a handle on what former Labour voters might be interested in  


“ Broadcast said 57% of GB News’ opening show’s audience was male, while 52% were aged 65 years or older and 82% were from the ABC1 demographic.”

https://www.theguardian.com/me.....or-sky-news-channels

Using the NRS social grades, the ABC1 demographic are squarely “middle class”. So what you have is a TV channel for self-pitying boomers, who have rinsed every single benefit built by generations before them, and have now pulled up the ladder and want to cry about young people and foreigners.

Sir Kieth seems to think these awful shítes will propel him into
No.10, so it’ll be even funnier to watch that actual working classes desert Mandleson’s Blairite puppet.
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