Jesus Christ

Quoted from Rick12

Needs amending Kingston and a re-examination of consciousness. Sadly I see things are to embedded now in history for things to change.  

What needs amending? The Jewish doctrine of the Promised Land?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What needs amending? The Jewish doctrine of the Promised Land?

Yes. If all the main religions just focused on some aspect of their dogmas and unite as one collective group  eg love we wouldn't have any problems in the world today amongst these differing religious factions. As noted for this to happen it would need something dramatic to happen eg Jesus returning or God appearing in some degree eg a divine light from heaven coming down which all humanity can see twenty fours a day 7 days a week. Far fetched I know but for some that's what would be needed to believe .

But haven’t we been given free will so we can determine our own future? Waiting for the second coming is like giving up. Isn’t the onus on good people to come together and act, no matter how difficult the task is?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

But haven’t we been given free will so we can determine our own future? Waiting for the second coming is like giving up. Isn’t the onus on good people to come together and act, no matter how difficult the task is?

This is getting deep .

Yes everything is about free will though sometimes thats incredibly hard to do practically imposible  given some peoples backgrounds are horrendous. Hence trying to follow the right way if your in that much of a hole you can barely see any light.

Denzel Washington  sums that up  powerfully in one of his films:


I agree good people need to come together and act but that again is easier than done. Its happened before though on a local level as you maybe aware. A woman who came from a council estate where there was a lot of anti social behaviour stood up  to it putting herself in danger. Her inspiration gave the strength to others to follow suit and the yobs backed down a lot and things improved a great deal.

This is where I see the problem. Certainty. People who are certain that what they believe is the absolute truth, don’t see the need for compromise. In fact many of them think compromise is a sin if it means going against some tenet of doctrine. Same thing happens with politics - Nazi Germany and Stalinist USSR. We need more doubt in people. If you have some doubt about what you believe, you are less likely to pull the trigger, and more likely to look at different ways of doing things.

I agree changing this in the Middle East is nigh on impossible. It’s ‘facts on the ground’. Every year the Israelis make more facts on the ground, making it harder to go back to the way things were. I applaud those Jews of good conscience who condemn these actions.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Hold on. The Basques and Kurds haven’t been squeezed out of their homeland, so they’re different cases. Straightforward self-determination, though there will be areas that have mixed populations. Israel has moved people out of their homeland. Why should the Palestinians be the ones to move?  Past injustices against the Jews do not excuse that. Why not clear Lincolnshire of people so the Jews can have a homeland? Why not Vermont? Or Kaliningrad? The reason is because of their religion. They were ‘promised’ it by God.

In your solution, Israel won’t give up any land. It’s constantly grabbing more. Imaginative use of money. Swords into ploughshares- I like it.

I agree that the Basques and Kurds haven't been squeezed out, but they have certainly been persecuted just like the 'ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. I was merely making a suggestion for a solution in the creation of a homeland for all Palestinians which would involve Israel giving up the land it occupies around Eilat which has 1 of the three airports I mentioned.

Israel would give up the land with heavy persuasion from the Americans, so it would be feasible.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

This is where I see the problem. Certainty. People who are certain that what they believe is the absolute truth, don’t see the need for compromise. In fact many of them think compromise is a sin if it means going against some tenet of doctrine. Same thing happens with politics - Nazi Germany and Stalinist USSR. We need more doubt in people. If you have some doubt about what you believe, you are less likely to pull the trigger, and more likely to look at different ways of doing things.

I agree changing this in the Middle East is nigh on impossible. It’s ‘facts on the ground’. Every year the Israelis make more facts on the ground, making it harder to go back to the way things were. I applaud those Jews of good conscience who condemn these actions.

As I have already posted that when you meet extremists they will not give ground, even when you prove them wrong! beyond any doubt. You, therefore, have to get others in the form of the USA and Iran to do it for you. Therein lies another problem with the USA and Iran who are more or less at war with each other, both backing the opposing parties ( Israel & Palestinians ).

In one sense the Palestinian problem is like a mini Vietnam without major powers directly involved. At the end of the day, you have to have both parties willing to compromise which takes us back to square one.

Thankfully as a believer in Jesus, I don't blame Christianity for the problems but the politicians on both sides.

Quoted from DB

I agree that the Basques and Kurds haven't been squeezed out, but they have certainly been persecuted just like the 'ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. I was merely making a suggestion for a solution in the creation of a homeland for all Palestinians which would involve Israel giving up the land it occupies around Eilat which has 1 of the three airports I mentioned.

Israel would give up the land with heavy persuasion from the Americans, so it would be feasible.

I like your thinking outside the box DB. But the hinterland of Eilat is desert. Why should the Palestinians who were happily living in fertile land until the late 1940s move to the desert? Why can’t they have the land they were living in until forced out?

People think it’s bad enough when hundreds of asylum seekers and refugees are given council flats in this country, let alone millions of them being given taking the choicest places to live.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I like your thinking outside the box DB. But the hinterland of Eilat is desert. Why should the Palestinians who were happily living in fertile land until the late 1940s move to the desert? Why can’t they have the land they were living in until forced out?

People think it’s bad enough when hundreds of asylum seekers and refugees are given council flats in this country, let alone millions of them being given taking the choicest places to live.

I wasn't saying it is a cast-iron solution to the problem, merely a suggestion. Deserts can be made fertile, hence throwing money at the situation by all parties I mentioned, and according to the maps you posted on another thread that area was part of the old Palestine.

Quoted from DB

I wasn't saying it is a cast-iron solution to the problem, merely a suggestion. Deserts can be made fertile, hence throwing money at the situation by all parties I mentioned, and according to the maps you posted on another thread that area was part of the old Palestine.

I know you weren’t necessarily suggesting it was a cast iron solution. That’s why I said I like your thinking outside the box.

The cost of making a desert fertile is not only in money. The water has got to come from somewhere else.

Good thinking. Now while you are pondering this, would you kindly pack your essential belongings, whatever you can fit in your car. And tell your neighbours to do the same. We’ve got lots of Welsh people whose ancestors were kicked out of Lincolnshire by the Anglo-Saxons, and they’re moving in. If you want to stick around you can move into the Fitties.