Jesus Christ

The problem is the Israelis are basing their claim to Palestine on their religion. Their religion tells them that that land was promised to them by God. Apparently same god as the Christians and Muslims that they are oppressing. As far as they are concerned they are doing God’s work. How do you square that?

Christians do the opposite and often ignore their founder’s exhortations. If churches followed Jesus’ teachings they would be advocating forms of socialism.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

The problem is the Israelis are basing their claim to Palestine on their religion. Their religion tells them that that land was promised to them by God. Apparently same god as the Christians and Muslims that they are oppressing. As far as they are concerned they are doing God’s work. How do you square that?

Christians do the opposite and often ignore their founder’s exhortations. If churches followed Jesus’ teachings they would be advocating forms of socialism.

As I have posted many times there is not a problem with Christianity. The problem is the same one over the years which is people/cults/religions and nations have hijacked Christianity for their own cause.

Christianity is not about power, greed, and money but love compassion, and help for each other. If you look at the countries that back Israel and the Palestinians you will find power, greed, and money behind it. Not Christianity.

Quoted from DB

As I have posted many times there is not a problem with Christianity. The problem is the same one over the years which is people/cults/religions and nations have hijacked Christianity for their own cause.

Christianity is not about power, greed, and money but love compassion, and help for each other. If you look at the countries that back Israel and the Palestinians you will find power, greed, and money behind it. Not Christianity.

I agree with that. The problem is with the churches. They have backed power over the centuries, and are often part of the establishment, and promote toxic interpretations like those Bible bashers in America. They all seem to forget the example of Jesus and the money lenders. And the camel and the eye of the needle.

Jews need to abandon this Promised Land thing too. It’s at the heart of the trouble in Palestine. It is pure injustice based on religion.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I agree with that. The problem is with the churches. They have backed power over the centuries, and are often part of the establishment, and promote toxic interpretations like those Bible bashers in America. They all seem to forget the example of Jesus and the money lenders. And the camel and the eye of the needle.

Jews need to abandon this Promised Land thing too. It’s at the heart of the trouble in Palestine. It is pure injustice based on religion.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I don't think Jews need to abandon the promised land. It is part of their history and culture and needs providing for. There is also a need for the Kurds, Basques, etc. and then the Balkans war highlighted the situation.

As I have posted before I did have a brief conversation with an extremist Hindu spiritual leader so I can see how these problems begin and manifest when the  2 parties will not compromise. Perhaps a relocation for the Palestinians to a new area, say to the northern end of the Gulf of Aquba.

Israel, Egypt, and Jordon could all give up land to form a new country for the Palestinians, as well as Gaza. There are 3 new airports in the area, all of which could be part of the new country and they could be financed by the Israelis, Egyptians, Jordanians, Iran, other Arab states, and the USA. The money would come from the savings of money spent on the war by most of these countries under different guises.

Just a thought.

Hold on. The Basques and Kurds haven’t been squeezed out of their homeland, so they’re different cases. Straightforward self-determination, though there will be areas that have mixed populations. Israel has moved people out of their homeland. Why should the Palestinians be the ones to move?  Past injustices against the Jews do not excuse that. Why not clear Lincolnshire of people so the Jews can have a homeland? Why not Vermont? Or Kaliningrad? The reason is because of their religion. They were ‘promised’ it by God.

In your solution, Israel won’t give up any land. It’s constantly grabbing more. Imaginative use of money. Swords into ploughshares- I like it.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

The problem is the Israelis are basing their claim to Palestine on their religion. Their religion tells them that that land was promised to them by God. Apparently same god as the Christians and Muslims that they are oppressing. As far as they are concerned they are doing God’s work. How do you square that?

Christians do the opposite and often ignore their founder’s exhortations. If churches followed Jesus’ teachings they would be advocating forms of socialism.

Good points raised. I think for the first God never  promised the land of Israel to Abraham if he followed Gods ways .This was more Abrahams attempt to understand something that was essentially beyond him and I feel a figment of his own deep consciousness  . Prophet Muhammad later interpreted Abrahams and the Christian message which followed it and refined it according to his own beliefs. Again coming from his own consciousness which I believe the Quran came from.

Jesus as noted earlier in this thread by that article  Edward Kessler captures what Jesus was brilliantly. Someone who tried to refine Abrahams message even more so.

At this present moment until Jesus supposedly comes again I like the Sikh view though take a refined view of it. Whilst not believing in reincarnation I think there is a goodness in all of us even the most evil (even if its 0.000001 %). We have to work on the good in ourselves and try to eliminate the bad which can be a arduous process especially for those who have had it more difficult than most eg abused,neglected etc in early years and carry a lot of hate and anger in them against their abusers. All that anger does is destroy us.

Are you saying that in your opinion Abraham misinterpreted God or that the Jewish faith believes that Abraham misinterpreted it?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Are you saying that in your opinion Abraham misinterpreted God

Yes as I think God doesnt speak to anyone verbally .  Abraham tried to touch on something which as noted something  which is essentially beyond all of us even science. I take it right back to before the big bang. That instant explosion which gave rise to the ever expanding universe we see today.

But that still leaves the Jewish religion telling Jews they have a God given right to Palestine. Abraham misinterpreted God and everyone else who followed him, through Moses and the Prophets.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

But that still leaves the Jewish religion telling Jews they have a God given right to Palestine. Abraham misinterpreted God and everyone else who followed him, through Moses and the Prophets.

Needs amending Kingston and a re-examination of consciousness. Sadly I see things are to embedded now in history for things to change.