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Football Against Facism

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grimsby pete
November 19, 2019, 6:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face


Please don’t presume to know what I think.

I’ll tell you exactly what I believe - everyone should pay their fair share in tax and the working class should recognise their real enemy instead of bullying easy targets. Simple as that.


To be fair we all know what your thinking is because you have expressed it many times on here.


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KingstonMariner
November 19, 2019, 7:47pm Report to Moderator
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You’ll (Ska, Maringer, Chrisblor) never convince the likes of Lew Chatterlies Lover with facts. Hopefully it’ll get through to other readers staying silent in this thread.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
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rancido
November 19, 2019, 7:55pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KingstonMariner
You’ll (Ska, Maringer, Chrisblor) never convince the likes of Lew Chatterlies Lover with facts. Hopefully it’ll get through to other readers staying silent in this thread.


Selected facts, and do you really want to silence people who have opposing views to yours?


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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lew chaterleys lover
November 19, 2019, 8:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rancido


Selected facts, and do you really want to silence people who have opposing views to yours?


It would seem so.

(Selected) facts galore.

We have not been arguing anything even remotely controversial. I defended Farage because as a leader of a national party he had a right to be heard. We've argued that unlimited immigration is damaging communities, and I think it was you who pointed out the obvious local example is Boston.

We have tried to express an opinion that Grimsby voted for Brexit and perhaps these particular posters are not in the majority despite their insistence that they are right and we are wrong. I have left it that the electorate will decide whether their (selected) facts trump voters own experiences in their daily lives.

Sometimes passions run high, sometimes we say things we regret, but this particular group of posters seem determined to close alternative opinions down; too many of their posts are derogatory and insulting and I get the impression they are used to pumping out their propaganda day and night.

Anybody can see I don't normally post in the non-football section and only got drawn into this by defending Farage and his right to have a say, and have since been painted as the devil incarnate and been called every name under the sun by these particular posters. It doesn't worry me because when needed I will give it back, but this complete inability to see that other people (probably the majority as we are about to find out) do not agree with them is alarming. It is like a right winger on the Guardian who is shouted down, or a left winger on the Guido Fawkes site being ridiculed.

This site is not for one side or the other though, certainly not one just for left wing idealogues; everybody should be able to have a say without being shouted down.
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ska face
November 20, 2019, 12:01pm Report to Moderator

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You can hold whatever opinions you like, but at least have the courage to stand by them and don’t try hide behind justifications that aren’t accurate.

If you don’t like foreigners in your towns, sharing your hospitals and using your roads, that’s your call, but saying that they’re a drain on resources is demonstrably untrue in any meaningful sense of the word.

You’ve not been shouted down, you’ve been pulled up.
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grimsby pete
November 20, 2019, 4:54pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ska face
You can hold whatever opinions you like, but at least have the courage to stand by them and don’t try hide behind justifications that aren’t accurate.

If you don’t like foreigners in your towns, sharing your hospitals and using your roads, that’s your call, but saying that they’re a drain on resources is demonstrably untrue in any meaningful sense of the word.

You’ve not been shouted down, you’ve been pulled up.


Believe it or not the government and local councils do  long term planning,

If the population of a certain area is expecting to grow at a certain rate they plan ahead and put extra resources in to include the required extra demand. So when the extra demand is wanted the Schools , Surgeries and NHS would be able to cope.

If there is a huge influx like at Boston and Thetford which they have not planned for they will not cope.

Its nothing to do with racism just plain logic.

Let me ask you a question scar face if you was the head of a school that had 20 places available for new pupils but 50 EU pupils wanted to go to your school how would you cope what would you do about the problem.?

If we knew what numbers where coming in year on year we could do something about it but when you have no idea of the numbers coming how can you organise the required demand.?

Mr Corbyn's  magic money tree would just build a new school overnight but what would you do. ?


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Maringer
November 20, 2019, 11:52pm Report to Moderator
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If you get an influx if immigrants into an area, funding should increase to help the local council deal with their health care, schooling of their children etc. It would be both the sensible and obvious thing to do. Surely we can all agree on this?

However, with the current funding model, the councils get nothing so resources are strained. Central government has been happily accepting the taxes that the immigrants pay doing vital jobs in the community where they live at the same time that they have been cutting the block grants to councils. Telling them, basically, do more with less and, if you can't, it's not our problem.

This is NOT the fault of the immigrants, it is the fault of the cynical fornicators in power in Westminster since 2010 who hate government because they, bizarrely, believe that private business can do everything better, despite the vast (and we are talking flipping vast here) amount of evidence to the contrary.

Said cynical fornicators are, of course being very well rewarded for their views through directorships and other sinecures whilst the immigrants get the stick from those tugging their forelocks to their masters in London.

I realise it's pointless arguing here as people in this thread have, quite seriously criticised me for stating facts they disagree with! However, I'm just trying to point out the actual lie of the land. It's nothing particularly perceptive or secret. The information is clear and is out there, easily available for public consumption, but a large chunk of the population just aren't interested in understanding it. The right-wing media certainly isn't going to point it out and you can obviously lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

The mind boggles how many working class people are going to be fooled into voting Tory in just a few weeks, despite their appalling record in office since 2010. Either the coalition of the Tories since 2015 could easily have cut immigration if they had wanted to, both from outside and inside the EU, but they didn't because we are so reliant on it. Rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water and leaving the EU, it would have made so much more sense to curtail immigration first, but we just weren't willing to do so. Mostly because it would have meant investing in our own economy, education, training and the like and they were ideologically intent on reducing the size of the state.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 28, 2019, 1:40pm Report to Moderator
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Well, I cannot believe what I have just heard.

The Labour party held an election address at Southampton FC. Shocking. Outrageous. A disgrace to democracy. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right?  

I think that is Blackpool FC and Southampton that have had the temerity to hold election meetings for a political party. Boo.

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Maringer
November 28, 2019, 5:03pm Report to Moderator
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Nope, I still don't agree with it, but it's Southampton's problem in this case so their choice. Perhaps it's a Chinese plot to destabilise our democracy, or is it just the Russians who do that?

Did he hold up a Southampton shirt with his name on the back? If so, I'd imagine that right-wing Southampton fans would be quite rightly furious. Let's see some pics.
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barralad
November 28, 2019, 6:04pm Report to Moderator
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The last time I looked at this thread it was less than 10 pages long.

I may be repeating a point already made but for me when people concede that we do need some immigration (thank the Lord for that) but qualify it by saying that it needs to be skilled we appear to have moved away from the reality that many, many of the manual jobs, especially in the big cities are done by immigrants. If we cut back on immigration through an Australian style system then who exactly will do these jobs?.We are led to believe that unemployment is at its lowest for years so as E.U. leave and are not replaced who will pick up the reins? Please don't pin it on the lazy  unemployed because the reality is that we are not far off the situation where the bulk of those left on the register are unemployable. Anyone claiming otherwise needs to consider whether if they were an employer they would employ the individuals concerned.
This idea that people come to leech off our seen as massively generous benefit system is so archaic as to be utterly risible. Just a small example but last night I got talking to a taxi driver who picked me up from Town station. Turns out he has a degree in petroleum engineering. He lost his job here but recognised that he needed to improve his skills in recognition of the fact that that industry is contracting so he enrolled in a distance learning masters course through Aberdeen uni and is paying for it through taxi-ing.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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