Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Non Football › Football Against Facism
Moderators: Moderator
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 13 Guests

Football Against Facism

  This thread currently has 27,939 views. Print
33 Pages Prev ... 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 Next All Recommend Thread
lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 10:38am
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,943
Posts Per Day: 1.07
Reputation: 75.9%
Rep Score: +30 / -10
Approval: +10,547
Gold Stars: 231
Quoted from ska face


And your life is equally as important as a migrants.

Of great importance to you and your family, but of absolutely no significance whatsoever to the ruling classes. You think those at the top of the Brexit Party give a single solitary sheeite if you drop dead waiting for an ambulance tomorrow? Nope.

But keep on lining their pockets. They must be absolutely p1ssing themselves at having serfs like you doing their bidding.


I have never given a penny piece to the Brexit party, or any party come to that. What gave you that idea? I am arguing for the principle.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 250 - 320
ska face
November 18, 2019, 10:39am

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,148
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Reputation: 80.94%
Rep Score: +60 / -14
Approval: +21,347
Gold Stars: 824
Are you seriously of the opinion that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 251 - 320
Chrisblor
November 18, 2019, 10:48am

Elemér Berkessy
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,205
Posts Per Day: 1.22
Reputation: 72.75%
Rep Score: +51 / -20
Location: somewhere along the m180
Approval: +8,678
Gold Stars: 231


I think your reasoning is gradually unraveling.

There is a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that would think no immigration at all is what is required.

What we are arguing for is reasonable numbers, with the infrastructure, housing, schools, hospitals etc to accommodate them. The small increase in GDP attributed to immigration is swallowed up and more by having to provide extra services. This is one reason why Labour are so low in the polls; like you they cannot grasp the simple concept of allowing mass uncontrolled immigration is having a detrimental effect on communities becasue the services have not kept pace with immigration levels; yet all you do is argue for more immigration, and castigate the Tory government for not spending more on services to keep pace with more immigration to allow the cycle to continue.

I smile when you mention "ideological" reasons in respect of the Tory party, whilst you yourself remain steadfastly neutral..?!

Can I ask again (mainly for any posters who might be thinking of voting for Labour) - how many immigrants would you like to come to the UK in uncontrolled numbers? Another 5 million? 10 million? More than that?


No it isn't, you're fundamentally wrong on this point and it undermines your entire argument. Non-EU immigration is heavily controlled and I know this because I work with immigrants for a living. Have you heard of the Health Immigration Surcharge? Do you know how much UK Visas & Immigration charge in non refundable visa application fees? Do you know about salary and wealth requirements for different types of visas? Because if you had the first idea about this stuff you'd realise that immigration into the UK is miles away from being uncontrolled. It's a flipping expensive nightmare for most people trying to do anything beyond visiting the UK for short periods of time (and if you're from a country where the typical residents are a tinge too brown then it's even more of an uphill battle to get through our borders).

On the ideological aspect, I suggest you read up on the amount of private healthcare companies who donate to Conservative MPs, consider what those politicians are doing in terms of defunding the NHS and start joining up the dots between those two things and the increasing nature of privatisation of healthcare provision in this country. If you're fine with private companies running healthcare services for profit then fine ok, but you need to realise that the profit they make (or corners they cut to increase profits) could actually be spent on treating patients instead of lining their shareholders pockets.


gary jones
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 252 - 320
rancido
November 18, 2019, 12:36pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,454
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 80.3%
Rep Score: +41 / -10
Approval: +6,448
Gold Stars: 92
Quoted from Chrisblor


Not sure providing actual evidence to back up my arguments is brainwashed compared to a baseless and economically backward argument of I JUST THINK THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM WE SHOULDN'T LET ANY MORE IN.

The point going over your heads is that without immigrants there'd be enormous skill shortages in the economy, hospitals would be even more strained and there'd be significantly less money for the government to spend on public services. If you just removed all the immigrants and stopped letting more in it doesn't magically mean everything schools & healthcare would be adequately funded - the government has to increase per capita spending on those services but chooses not to for ideological reasons.


But you assume that people who want immigration controlled are against all immigration. Of course we need skilled people and we should recruit from overseas but there has to be some kind of control. I have holidayed in Bulgaria several times over the last 20 years and stay in package holiday hotels. The minimum wage in Bulgaria for 2019 is less than £4 /hour ( at current exchange rates ). You don't need to be an expert in finance and economics to realise that a hotel worker in Bulgaria can double their wages by doing the same job in the UK. Of course  our cost of living is higher but an immigrant hotel worker from Bulgaria can see that if a UK worker can live on our minimum wage then so can they. If the EU was a level playing field with the same taxation levels, welfare benefits and minimum wage applying to all member states then that would be fine and free movement of labour would not be a problem. But the way it stands now there will always be a large movement of people from the poorer countries to the wealthier ones. This not only causes a labour shortage in the poorer countries , especially skilled workers, but an increased excess in the labour force for the wealthier ones. I would imagine that there are a considerably higher number of Eastern Europeans working in the UK than there are UK workers in Eastern Europe and this imbalance will manifest itself in a lot of problems in the years to come both in the UK and the poorer EU countries.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Logged Online
Private Message
Reply: 253 - 320
lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 1:13pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,943
Posts Per Day: 1.07
Reputation: 75.9%
Rep Score: +30 / -10
Approval: +10,547
Gold Stars: 231
Quoted from Chrisblor


No it isn't, you're fundamentally wrong on this point and it undermines your entire argument. Non-EU immigration is heavily controlled and I know this because I work with immigrants for a living. Have you heard of the Health Immigration Surcharge? Do you know how much UK Visas & Immigration charge in non refundable visa application fees? Do you know about salary and wealth requirements for different types of visas? Because if you had the first idea about this stuff you'd realise that immigration into the UK is miles away from being uncontrolled. It's a flipping expensive nightmare for most people trying to do anything beyond visiting the UK for short periods of time (and if you're from a country where the typical residents are a tinge too brown then it's even more of an uphill battle to get through our borders).

On the ideological aspect, I suggest you read up on the amount of private healthcare companies who donate to Conservative MPs, consider what those politicians are doing in terms of defunding the NHS and start joining up the dots between those two things and the increasing nature of privatisation of healthcare provision in this country. If you're fine with private companies running healthcare services for profit then fine ok, but you need to realise that the profit they make (or corners they cut to increase profits) could actually be spent on treating patients instead of lining their shareholders pockets.


I see you are trying to muddy the waters to talk about the controls on non EU countries regards immigration when the vast majority of our immigration over the last decade has come from being a member of the EU.

Just so that we are clear (especially to labour voters) how much more uncontrolled immigration from the EU would you like over say 5 years? Is it in the millions, perhaps the same as a medium sized town over several years, or is the truth you don't really care how many come in regardless of the consequences?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 254 - 320
ska face
November 18, 2019, 1:19pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,148
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Reputation: 80.94%
Rep Score: +60 / -14
Approval: +21,347
Gold Stars: 824
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 255 - 320
grimsby pete
November 18, 2019, 1:27pm

Exile
Posts: 55,548
Posts Per Day: 9.83
Reputation: 81.7%
Rep Score: +126 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +17,753
Gold Stars: 221
Quoted from ska face


But it’s well documented that EU migrants are net contributors to the economy - so they produce more money than they cost. They pay their taxes, just like you, so the question needs to be asked - where’s the money going?

How much money do they make for big business in factories, or delivering parcels, or picking fruit on massive farms? Someone’s making a profit from their labour and that money isn’t making its way into the infrastructure required to support the population.

It’s being creamed off the top, in tax evasion and tax breaks for big corporations. Migrants create wealth for people up the chain, that’s where it’s going missing.


I agree to a certain point in what you are saying but there is a big difference,

I am 71 and am still paying tax which I started paying when I left school at 15,

My dad paid tax all his life the same as his dad my grandad,

So we have put money into the system for hundreds of years,

EU people come in without paying anything in and they expect schooling and healthcare straight away.

Solution + the EU country they come from should fund them for say 10 years then at least the said people have paid into our pot.



                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             68 Years following the Town

                              Life member of Trust

                               First game   April 1955
                               
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 256 - 320
ska face
November 18, 2019, 1:40pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,148
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Reputation: 80.94%
Rep Score: +60 / -14
Approval: +21,347
Gold Stars: 824
Children don’t pay tax, should we just leave them to it?

It’s always the same problem - people punching down because they’re afraid to punch up. You KNOW successive govts have taken the p1ss out of you for decades, so why not try and stop them?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 257 - 320
lew chaterleys lover
November 18, 2019, 1:40pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,943
Posts Per Day: 1.07
Reputation: 75.9%
Rep Score: +30 / -10
Approval: +10,547
Gold Stars: 231
Quoted from ska face
I’ll ask you again, and you can refer to chrisblor’s helpful post if you need to, do you seriously believe that migration into this country is “uncontrolled”?


Not controlled enough to allow millions to come in though is it?

Perhaps you could answer my question I have asked your pro-immigration colleague 3 times? What level of immigration would you like to see from the EU in future years? I am asking mainly for labour voters.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 258 - 320
grimsby pete
November 18, 2019, 1:49pm

Exile
Posts: 55,548
Posts Per Day: 9.83
Reputation: 81.7%
Rep Score: +126 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +17,753
Gold Stars: 221
Quoted from ska face
Children don’t pay tax, should we just leave them to it?

It’s always the same problem - people punching down because they’re afraid to punch up. You KNOW successive govts have taken the p1ss out of you for decades, so why not try and stop them?


How can we do that mate ?


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             68 Years following the Town

                              Life member of Trust

                               First game   April 1955
                               
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 259 - 320
33 Pages Prev ... 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 Next All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Non Football › Football Against Facism

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread
 

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.