Football Against Facism

Quoted from ska face

That’s the problem - again - you don’t get to decide what is an objective fact based on whether you like the person saying it or not.

I think “debate” is stretching it a bit too...

And you immediately reject anybody who has a differing view to yours. How ironic that the word "Fascism" appears in the title of this thread which includes intolerance of others views.

Yeah because when we provide evidence to back up our assertions you lot decide it is simply wrong and should be overrided by your gut feelings. What is your problem with evidence based policy?

Quoted from rancido

And you immediately reject anybody who has a differing view to yours. How ironic that the word "Fascism" appears in the title of this thread which includes intolerance of others views.

When your argument is that migrants are a drain on resources, and people keep showing the evidence that proves otherwise - yes, I tend not to have much time for it. Especially when it’s clear you’ve not bothered reading any of the sources or studies or articles people have put up here.

You’re like flat earthers, but worse.

Quoted from ska face

When your argument is that migrants are a drain on resources, and people keep showing the evidence that proves otherwise - yes, I tend not to have much time for it. Especially when it’s clear you’ve not bothered reading any of the sources or studies or articles people have put up here.

You’re like flat earthers, but worse.

I never said they were a drain on resources but that immigration put pressure on resources, which is not the same. I have read all the reports quoted and also the relevant links associated with those articles. One thing that is glaring obvious is that for every report I read there was another that contradicted it. They also all said there was a degree of "flexibility" in the figures quoted. As I'm sure you will agree that there are hundreds of reports and investigations over the years that have been challenged but counter reports. One example was a leading doctor who categorically stated that an investigation he carried out, with all the relevant data, clearly proved a direct link with the MMR vaccine to child autism. This has now been proved to be totally false but the effects of people believing that single study is now being shown by an increase in the number of unvaccinated children and the dangers that represents. All studies and investigations are subject to the data collected and how it is interpreted but do not prove a situation, merely indicate because of the subjective nature of the collected data. As somebody famous once said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".

When an influx of immigrants settle in a small area it is hard for the schools to cope,
Most of the schools are near capacity anyway so an extension or another school needs to be built.
This money has to come out of the councils budgets which they have not got because the immigrants have not been here long enough to have paid any or very little monies in.

Its the same with the doctors surgery they have to recruit extra staff to cope with the influx,
Then we have the hospitals which are vastly understaffed in the first place.

All these problem can be easily sorted if you have controlled immigration but just allowing anybody in who wants to come here is unstainable .
So if we can control the numbers we can plan ahead and prepare the said resources so they are in place for everybody.

This is absolutely insane.

Why are you so reluctant to put ANY blame on the people who control council budgets.

Here - look for yourself to see how much money has been cut from your own local council budget. It’s £41.7m in NE Lincs alone.

https://action.labour.org.uk/page/content/council-cuts-calculator/

So migrants are paying in more than they take out, and even go some way to paying for other people, but what they put into the pot is being taken out and given to people like Amazon and Google.

What you or I have paid into the pot in the past is irrelevant, unfortunately, as that money was spent looking after us at the time, or spent on wars, or council housing, or a million other things. The money coming in NOW is being given away NOW in tax breaks for billionaires who are allowed to get by without putting in their fair share, and not being put into schools or hospitals or roads or housing. The money is there, it’s being handed out as bribes and gifts to big businesses. This is not a secret.

Quoted from ska face

This is absolutely insane.

Why are you so reluctant to put ANY blame on the people who control council budgets.

Here - look for yourself to see how much money has been cut from your own local council budget. It’s £41.7m in NE Lincs alone.

https://action.labour.org.uk/page/content/council-cuts-calculator/

So migrants are paying in more than they take out, and even go some way to paying for other people, but what they put into the pot is being taken out and given to people like Amazon and Google.

What you or I have paid into the pot in the past is irrelevant, unfortunately, as that money was spent looking after us at the time, or spent on wars, or council housing, or a million other things. The money coming in NOW is being given away NOW in tax breaks for billionaires who are allowed to get by without putting in their fair share, and not being put into schools or hospitals or roads or housing. The money is there, it’s being handed out as bribes and gifts to big businesses. This is not a secret.

So you have managed to turn a debate/discussion into the pros and cons of immigration into a party political broadcast for the Labour Party (a political party I was a card carrying member for many years).
Of course what the UK citizens have paid in the past is completely relevant as that has paid for the schools, NHS and other infrastructures that recent immigrants can use.
Do you honestly believe that getting all these billionaires to pay more will actually make a difference? We live in a global economy with all the modern technology that goes with it. These people can easily up sticks and move to a more tax friendly country and conduct all their business electronically. You can then have a situation where you not only lose their tax income but also the money both taxable and otherwise that goes into the economy.

Where are “they” going to all move to then? The U.K. already has the lowest rates of corporation tax in the G7 and lower than almost all OECD countries



How easy do you think it is to actually move a major corporation to somewhere with lower taxes? Do you think investment bankers accustomed to living in Belgravia are going to up sticks and drag their families to Belize?

Corporation tax accounted for £57billion in tax receipts last year, in 2016/17 the difference between the tax paid and the tax due was £33bn (https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/). So would making people pay their taxes make a difference? Errrr, yeah, to the tune of over £33bn a year. You never know, we might be able to spend that alleviating some of the terrible strain caused by those EU migrants!

It’s turned into a discussion about tax and responsibility because you and a few others are hiding behind the line that EU migrants cause an insurmountable strain on roads (really?), hospitals and schools. You can’t seem to grasp that the strain is caused by the Government not improving those things with the money they have at their disposal. I’m sure migrants want an efficient free NHS as much as you do - I’ll tell you who doesn’t, the current govt.  

Quoted from ska face

Where are “they” going to all move to then? The U.K. already has the lowest rates of corporation tax in the G7 and lower than almost all OECD countries



How easy do you think it is to actually move a major corporation to somewhere with lower taxes? Do you think investment bankers accustomed to living in Belgravia are going to up sticks and drag their families to Belize?

Corporation tax accounted for £57billion in tax receipts last year, in 2016/17 the difference between the tax paid and the tax due was £33bn (https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/). So would making people pay their taxes make a difference? Errrr, yeah, to the tune of over £33bn a year. You never know, we might be able to spend that alleviating some of the terrible strain caused by those EU migrants!

It’s turned into a discussion about tax and responsibility because you and a few others are hiding behind the line that EU migrants cause an insurmountable strain on roads (really?), hospitals and schools. You can’t seem to grasp that the strain is caused by the Government not improving those things with the money they have at their disposal. I’m sure migrants want an efficient free NHS as much as you do - I’ll tell you who doesn’t, the current govt.  

You originally said billionaires who are individuals, but now take the argument to include corporations which is a totally different entity. If, and it's a big if, Corbyn and Co get into power and apply some of there fiscal policies then watch how many of these big corporations move headquarters or have their stock market dealings moved away from the LSE. This debate will never end because I don't think the EU is good for the UK and want to leave. You obviously think the EU is great, freedom of movement is a good idea and you think we should remain. Over 71 years I have developed my political views, which obviously differ from years. It's best if we agree to differ and leave it at that.

Quoted from rancido

You obviously think the EU is great, freedom of movement is a good idea and you think we should remain.

Please don’t presume to know what I think.

I’ll tell you exactly what I believe - everyone should pay their fair share in tax and the working class should recognise their real enemy instead of bullying easy targets. Simple as that.