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 MuddyWaters |
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In defence of Efete's defending capabilities. He's been played on the wrong side for the past two matches and has been more solid than Mullarkey. Swindon and Barrow were more dangerous attacking our right side. I like Mullarkey as a player btw, but feel Michee gets written off far too often. Still think we miss his presence, energy, pace and power down the right as well as his capability of arriving in the box..
And if we're going to play two up top, I think we need Hunt's passing range too.
Both highly contentious opinions on here. But look where we are without either..
Couldn’t agree more. Watching our most gifted midfielder running up and down the pitch in the pre pre match running was quite depressing. How is he going to get confident if he’s given 70 minutes once in a blue moon. |
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| SpiritOf98 |
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Been hesitant to put my views as I've been a little puzzled to see Holohan and Andrews get bad press early in this thread but for me Holohan put in a shift and was mcu better and busier than of late. As with other areas of the pitch he had too much to do as Conteh seemed way off the pace. Andrews was very good, the only player who attempted to get the ball and turn and twist to get in a forward playing position.
Also waited for the highlights to sum up my view that this team play with no urgency. Why were no Town players following up on the left side for the pen? How come their defender was off like a hare and managed to even beat Eisa to the rebound with a toe poke?
Far too often the ball gets played back to our defender who then takes a touch, looks up and carefully puts in a measured poor cross straight to the shins of a defender, yet Efete put in the cross of the night for the goal, a somewhat hurried but superbly angled instinctive cross that will always cause problems.
It's frustrating as hell, we seem to get a glimpse of the answers we require in every game but quickly revert to a flat and pace-less pattern. A manager obsessed with keeping shape has to address that oppositions run through the middle which all of our opponents are now picking upon.
So glad of the 3 points but so fed up with the mounting questions that pile up in the match inquest
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| sam gy |
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It's old ground now the Hunt debate, but he just doesn't seem to be imposing himself on games. Hunt has started more games than Andrews, but can anyone honestly say he's been as good??
Andrews was really good last night, i know he's not our player, but doesn't mean he cant be in the future..
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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Trying to create overloads in the middle will undoubtedly make us easier to defend and more susceptible to counter attacks.
Principles of defending is to get compact and then look to delay, deflect and deny. Delay an attack, slow it down so the team can get reorganised. Deflect the play, look to push players away from goal, run them into the wide areas. Deny the opposition, be that crosses, shots or simply getting tackles in to gain possession.
If we try to overload the middle we're adding more players into a congested area which limits space and increases our margin for error. It also means that the space is wide and that's where we'll have to push the ball. Not a bad scenario if we were good at getting bodies into the box and our deliveries were good, which I'd argue they're not the best quality of teams we've seen so far.
I'd work the opposite. Try to create overloads in the wide areas that pulls central opposition players across creating gaps in the middle that we look to exploit in the final third.
The problem for us with either scenario is that pace invariably increases your ability to exploit what you create. When we probe slowly we allow the opposition to regroup meaning any spaces we've opened up are suitably plugged by the opposition. A slow and patient approach is based on the idea that eventually the opposition will step in to win the ball and you seize that initiative but it requires a lot of awareness both on and off the ball and I think a sizeable issue is our off-the-ball work hasn't been inventive or creative enough to aid the player on the ball. Hence our performances have been impressive in the sense of how we're retaining the ball and moving it, but in terms of frequency of flowing moves it's lacking as a result. Just a view.
That's it really. When we play "well" we create very few clear cut chances but it doesn't look too bad because we keep the ball, but it goes nowhere, is far too slow and usually fizzles out before we ever get near the box.* *For the pedants on here of course we create some chances, sometimes get near the box and even inside it but you only have to see how Barrow played last night (yes they lost) to see we are miles behind. |
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| Bigdog |
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It's old ground now the Hunt debate, but he just doesn't seem to be imposing himself on games. Hunt has started more games than Andrews, but can anyone honestly say he's been as good??
Andrews was really good last night, i know he's not our player, but doesn't mean he cant be in the future..
Andrews showed a glimpse of being ok, but there's no doubt our midfield three got steamrollered by Barrow last night. Hunt's only played three games this season, hard to impose himself on games from the bench or the stand. PH couldn't have damaged his confidence any more if he'd tried. Again, our performances and results without him haven't warranted that kind of treatment. It may not be the safest option, but a midfield containing both Conteh and Hunt has the highest ceiling of performance imho. Hunt needs a proper run of games, and his manager's backing.. |
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| BobbyCummingsTackle |
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It's old ground now the Hunt debate, but he just doesn't seem to be imposing himself on games. Hunt has started more games than Andrews, but can anyone honestly say he's been as good??
Andrews was really good last night, i know he's not our player, but doesn't mean he cant be in the future..
Just a thought about Hunt, not really a defence of him but maybe a reason..... It's difficult for him to do what he's good at in a midfield that is being overrun and he's being constantly asked to do defensive work. I wasn't there last night but I was at Swindon. He ran around like a chicken with no head and was always trying to get involved. But he's not a tackler and the defensive side of his game is not great. I initially thought 'he's a liability and we should get rid of him' but as the game went on I began to think that he's never going to thrive in a midfield set up like ours. If we want to see the best from Hunt I think the rest of the midfield needs to play flat and Hunt can sit between them and the forward(s), or we play a diamond with Conteh at the defensive point and Hunt at the forward point. |
| Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice. |
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| diehardmariner |
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I've always envisaged our best midfield as that diamond type to be honest.
It's simple but it's about putting the players with the best attributes in those positions where they're most effective.
If we want someone to shield the defence and kickstart everything in a composed manner, it's Conteh with the attribute.
If we want someone/people to run the legs off teams and win lose bits of possession, it's Clifton and Holohan with the attributes.
If we want someone who can create and is technically able to unlock teams, it's Hunt who has that.
Hunt is and has been asked to do either that shielding role or the terrier type role. It's not his game. No more so than Clifton or Holohan are the creative type who can pick passes.
But we always seem to be very similar in midfield and if I'm honest I struggle to see how we can play a 4-4-2 type system without going very similar in there. Hunt doesn't work in a 2, not sure Conteh would either (although I'm keen to see if he can step forward a bit) so that really leaves Holohan and Clifton which is as near like-for-like as you can get.
Andrews adds another dynamic. Not sure where he would sit in that or, based on a single start, what his best position would be.
A diamond midfield does mean you lose width though, unless you go with a lone striker (which brings its own problems).
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| diehardmariner |
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Trying to create overloads in the middle will undoubtedly make us easier to defend and more susceptible to counter attacks.
Principles of defending is to get compact and then look to delay, deflect and deny. Delay an attack, slow it down so the team can get reorganised. Deflect the play, look to push players away from goal, run them into the wide areas. Deny the opposition, be that crosses, shots or simply getting tackles in to gain possession.
If we try to overload the middle we're adding more players into a congested area which limits space and increases our margin for error. It also means that the space is wide and that's where we'll have to push the ball. Not a bad scenario if we were good at getting bodies into the box and our deliveries were good, which I'd argue they're not the best quality of teams we've seen so far.
I'd work the opposite. Try to create overloads in the wide areas that pulls central opposition players across creating gaps in the middle that we look to exploit in the final third.
The problem for us with either scenario is that pace invariably increases your ability to exploit what you create. When we probe slowly we allow the opposition to regroup meaning any spaces we've opened up are suitably plugged by the opposition. A slow and patient approach is based on the idea that eventually the opposition will step in to win the ball and you seize that initiative but it requires a lot of awareness both on and off the ball and I think a sizeable issue is our off-the-ball work hasn't been inventive or creative enough to aid the player on the ball. Hence our performances have been impressive in the sense of how we're retaining the ball and moving it, but in terms of frequency of flowing moves it's lacking as a result. Just a view.
Really good insight, Chris. I'm not a huge fan of overloads in the middle all the time, as you've pointed out, it exposes you in other areas. I think Hurst likes it though and is in a lot of his thinking when he looks at how to set-up. As you've highlighted, overloading from wide (especially if you can switch play quickly) can be very effective but it needs pace to do so. We don't have any. Even last night we had occasions of switching play from one side to the other and back very, very quickly. But we had no pace to attack the created space. Early on in the season I did think we would do so with our fullbacks on the overlap but they're definitely sitting a bit deeper at the minute. At this level pace is king. Wilson aside we've got none. |
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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Has it? The manager and team have been absolutely hammered across every platform since the team was announced at 6:45pm last night.
And quite rightly so but it would be much, much worse had we lost. The criticism will grow louder unless we get any set pattern to our play and provide even the merest hint of excitement. A crowd of under 5k with absolutely nothing to get enthused about is the reality starting to kick in, that reality being people fed up of seeing the team looking like they've just met. |
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| Maringer |
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I think the issue for me is mainly that Hurst has his heart set on this 4-1-4-1 formation, but we don't really seems to have signed the players capable of playing in it. Notably, we're very one-paced throughout the team. Other than a good burst of pace by Eisa early on last night, I don't remember any of our players ever running away from their team. In comparison, they had a few players who we struggled to keep up with. With two quick wide players and more pace at full-back, it might work out better, but we don't have that.
For what it's worth, I understand why Efete was played at left-back last night. Their No. 21 was both quick and pretty strong in the air and Efete is our quickest defender who is also decent aerially. I'm not convinced that Glennon (too slow) or Amos (not great in the air) would have coped with him. I hate to see right-sided defenders on the left unless absolutely necessary, but I can understand it last night.
That said, it doesn't speak well of either of the left-backs that they aren't currently trusted to do their jobs. I'd have Amos in myself, although I'd also be looking for somebody else in January as Glennon has been so disappointing.
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