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 mariner91 |
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I thought it was pretty clear what the style of play was over the first 6/7 games, with Conteh sitting in front of the back 4, full backs advancing with the ball looking to play triangles with Holohan/Hunt/Clifton and whoever was wide of the front 3; or with those wide players cutting inside and driving towards goal rather than heading along the line.
The high press with Rose, Clifton and the wide players is also a clear tactic - designed to win the ball in more dangerous areas where you don’t need as much build up play to get a shot off. Even defensively, the two CBs of Maher & Rodgers are clearly looking to be more aggressive and head into midfield to win the ball rather than allowing attackers to pin them back.
IIRC the issue for the first few weeks was that we had loads of possession but lacked quality in the final third in terms of creating good opportunities. Not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination considering it was a new squad and one of the main attacking threats (Wilson) was out.
I think the main problem recently has been injuries with the loss of Maher and Rose fundamentally affecting how we play both with and without the ball. This is coupled with bringing Efete in and both left backs being not up to standard in possession (and out of possession at times), which means we don’t really have the option of switching play quickly, via Conteh, to fullbacks who are comfortable on the ball. Efete obviously has a lot of decent qualities, but I don’t think anyone would say he’s got real quality in terms of passing & delivery especially when being played out of position.
Ultimately it’s on the manager for a number of reasons, not least the never-ending chopping & changing of the whole system, but I’m not sure the last 3/4 games are representative of what the initial game plan and strategy was.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that and you're right, certainly out of possession it was obvious what the aim was in terms of 4 pressing high around Rose with Conteh screening. But even in the earlier games, it wasn't obvious what we were trying to do with the ball. The full backs weren't getting beyond the wide players, the midfielders weren't getting around and beyond Rose and we moved the ball far too slowly despite having lots of possession. It has been very easy all season for teams to let us have the ball 30-40 yards from goal because we've got nothing to penetrate them with. Whether it's a lack of a plan when with the ball or a plan that doesn't suit the players we've got, we've been very ineffective with the ball other than relying on Eisa to conjure up some magic. |
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| SpiritOf98 |
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All I know is that I don't need any data driven XG points summary to tell me that our possession is woeful. I almost dread having the kick off for the 1st half, watching us kick the ball out of play on our 2nd touch of the game time and again tells me we have a team that is not concerned with keeping possession.
On a related note why can we no longer retain the ball and see out the final few minutes? Against Crawly, after conceding a 2 goal lead why on earth are they even in our box on 90 minutes?
Similarly on Tues vs Barrow they were driving forward and sending the ball in at will for the final 15.
I'm struggling to remember the last time we held onto a lead by using the much-used tradition of sending the ball into the oppositions corner and holding it up to grind out the win.
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| friskneymariner |
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As I said, part of the jigsaw.
If you think Hurst is going to completely forget everything he's learned in more than a decade of management, because we now have access to sports science and data analysis, I think you're mistaken.
Unless you think Hurst isn't able to disagree with any of his coaching staff? I think that's fundamentally what you're imagining. "Computer says no"!
Why would Hurst not be able to disagree with something which the data analyst suggests yet still be free to disagree with the views of one of the other coaches?
I would rather our manager trust the evidence of his mark 1 eyeball over an algorithmn. |
| Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer. |
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| Maringer |
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I would rather our manager trust the evidence of his mark 1 eyeball over an algorithmn.
Why do you think he isn't? |
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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I would rather our manager trust the evidence of his mark 1 eyeball over an algorithmn.
There is certainly an argument to be had whether data analysis at the club on the playing side is helping or hindering. Yes I can see we have to be seen to be moving with the herd, we can't afford to look like we are being left behind. But those data analysts will be determined to make their mark, to justify their salary so they will be having an input to a greater or lesser degree. Of course the manager holds sway in the decisions taken, but is the analysis he is being given persuading him to make adjustments to the team that in reality aren't helping? Answers on a postcard to that but if he doesn't take much notice then what's the point? That of course is assuming their analysis of the data provides the correct solution which I very much doubt as you think you might be solving the problem only to create problems elsewhere. |
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| 123614 |
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We all know PH has a stubborn streak, so maybe he listens to the analysts but then decides his way is the highway and disregards what they say?
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| Maringer |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 11,210
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Quoted from 123614
We all know PH has a stubborn streak, so maybe he listens to the analysts but then decides his way is the highway and disregards what they say?
This is the exact opposite view to the arguments of some others - either could be correct! We have no way of knowing, but I'd imagine the truth of the matter lies somewhere between the two points. I suppose this is why we have a healthy forum given that anybody can argue anything based on absolutely no evidence one way or the other! |
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| Southwark Mariner |
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I suppose this is why we have a healthy forum given that anybody can argue anything based on absolutely no evidence one way or the other!
no we don't! |
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| Madeleymariner |
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| Knut Anders Fosters Voles |
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All I know is that I don't need any data driven XG points summary to tell me that our possession is woeful. I almost dread having the kick off for the 1st half, watching us kick the ball out of play on our 2nd touch of the game time and again tells me we have a team that is not concerned with keeping possession.
On a related note why can we no longer retain the ball and see out the final few minutes? Against Crawly, after conceding a 2 goal lead why on earth are they even in our box on 90 minutes?
In answer to your points: 1. All I know is that I don't need any data driven XG points summary to tell me that our possession is woeful. If we trust these stats to be correct, we have the 9th highest ‘ball possession per match’ percentage in L2. Our average league possession is over 50%. Now…hold the popcorn…despite those high possession statistics, out of the 8 teams above us on that list, we have played 6 of them in the first 11 matches. If we dispel our Sladeian conspiracies, we’ve played a lot of possession focused opponents, yet have still averaged over 50% possession. I accept that sterile possession can still be ‘woeful’ but I don’t think that was the point you were trying to make 2. I almost dread having the kick off for the 1st half, watching us kick the ball out of play on our 2nd touch of the game time and again tells me we have a team that is not concerned with keeping possession. See pt 1. Based on the eye, and on statistics, we do appear concerned with keeping possession. Despite some views on here, we are a team in transition. When Maher and Rodgers have been fit, the defensive line has been higher. If you’ve watched us, we are trying to retain possession. We are trying to press and play higher up the pitch. Is it working? Not always. There has been a definite shift in our style, or attempt to do so though. Playing well for 45 mins doesn’t matter much but that first half at Bradford was as close to Buckley MK II as I can remember for a while (yes, it didn’t last, but it had the same probing, high-brow, chin-strokery as Buckley MK II (not MK I or III)) 3. On a related note why can we no longer retain the ball and see out the final few minutes? Against Crawly, after conceding a 2 goal lead why on earth are they even in our box on 90 minutes? Because it’s football. When an average side plays an average side, there will be an ebb and flow to a match. Even a team with such superiority, oil-fuelled finance, tactical and possession skills as Man City concede a lot of late goals. Man City (corrupt) have the highest possession stats in the US/OPEC League and, other than PSG (farmers league, corrupt) and Barcelona (massively corrupt, bit farmy), the highest in Europe. Your opponent will attack. You can’t lay landmines in your penalty box to prevent them from entering. It’s supposed to be sport, not Risk. The horror! The horror! |
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mariner91
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