Just back  (merged)

I do think we have improved in quality of individual players .

But in the pre match Hurst talked a bit about formations , and touched on how going 4-4-2 would mean we could not get our wingers in the team , or something along those lines and then went on to talk about 3-5-2 .

Wanting flexibility is fine ,but at this level teams who have a consistent formation and starting lineup tend to do better - it's not Man City -- it's weird because Hurst used to be very consistent as a manager and every player would know their job to a man and his formation rarely changed .

It would be interesting to know what's triggered his change in thinking over the last year .

It dawned on me there he definitely does not know our best formation , and it seems like we have brought in better players but they were not brought 'to fit ' into a pre planned system of playing ,or if they were that has drastically changed through injuries ,form and suspensions .

He really  needs  to settle on a way of playing again  or we will continue to be inconsistent in the main with this mish mash of performances.

Wouldn't object to that wingback system, forza.  

I don't think either Clifton or Efete are best used as wingbacks but it's about avoiding getting overrun down the flanks and offering an overload in the middle, without sacrificing any support for the striker.  Eisa was pretty ineffective in that No 10 role earlier in the season though, I think he's someone who needs to be cutting inside.

Quoted from Mappers

I do think we have improved in quality of individual players .

But in the pre match Hurst talked a bit about formations , and touched on how going 4-4-2 would mean we could not get our wingers in the team , or something along those lines and then went on to talk about 3-5-2 .

Wanting flexibility is fine ,but at this level teams who have a consistent formation and starting lineup tend to do better - it's not Man City -- it's weird because Hurst used to be very consistent as a manager and every player would know their job to a man and his formation rarely changed .

It would be interesting to know what's triggered his change in thinking .

It dawned on me there he definitely does not know our best formation , and it seems like we have brought in better players but they were not brought 'to fit ' into a pre planned system of playing ,or if they were that has drastically changed through injuries ,form and suspensions .

He really  needs  to settle on a way of playing again  or we will continue to be inconsistent in the main with this mish mash of performances.

As many others have said on this thread, I think the issue stems from the fact we've (perhaps and hopefully on a temporary basis) abandoned what we set out to do in the summer.

The signings and the pre-season approach, even in the early games too, was focused around possession based football at high tempo, lots of neat and quick passing with a quick turnover of possession of teams in front of their own goal.

That's great and by having two centre-backs who can pass it, a holding midifelder who can draw players in and disrupt opposition tactics, central midfielders who are pressing high and hard, wingers who cut inside to give further overload, fullbacks who overlap and then a central striker who chases everything down it looked to be an ideal situation.

But since then we've had injuries and form disrupting a lot of that.  I'm not sure the replacements offer the same ability to suit that system.  Can Waterfall play it out like Maher?  Can Khan run at teams in the same way we expected to Vernam to?  Our fullbacks have gone very quickly from marauding to rigid.

I don't know what our approach was last night other than grind it out.  I don't think it matters what tactics we started with last night, it was always going to revert back to 2 deep lines be it a 4-and-5 or a 5-and-4 with Rose completely isolated with no-one remotely close to him.   That just invites team to press us and any clearances were just that, they weren't turning over play it was just getting rid of the ball into a bit of space and getting ready to defend again.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Wouldn't object to that wingback system, forza.  

I don't think either Clifton or Efete are best used as wingbacks but it's about avoiding getting overrun down the flanks and offering an overload in the middle, without sacrificing any support for the striker.  Eisa was pretty ineffective in that No 10 role earlier in the season though, I think he's someone who needs to be cutting inside.

personally I've thought some of Clifton's best performances were when he was left midfield & Efete always looks much happier going forward.
Great time to try it with Khan being away for a couple of matches

Great to come away with the 3 points, plenty of games this season we haven't got the result we deserved and tonight was the opposite, so i'll take that all day long.

Plenty of talk about formations, style of play etc - my gut feeling is Barrow isn't the team to judge that against, was incredibly impressed with how they set up, very compact with a back 5 and 3 protecting them which didn't leave any room infront or behind of them to play - I think both times we got in behind, we scored.

Equally going forward, they didn't half spring into life from there defensive shape - fair play to them, I thought they looked a good side and can see why they haven't conceded many.

UTM

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

If I was Hurst I would be ashamed sending out a league team who performed like that.

The result has somewhat saved him from a barage of criticism…

Has it? The manager and team have been absolutely hammered across every platform since the team was announced at 6:45pm last night.

Quoted from forza ivano

personally I've thought some of Clifton's best performances were when he was left midfield & Efete always looks much happier going forward.
Great time to try it with Khan being away for a couple of matches

Agree on Clifton. Efete is an odd one because he looks, to me anyway, good going forward with loads of space to run into, i.e. from deep.  But when he gets or starts further forward he looks lost.  Would have to accept that if he was used as a wingback, probably not going to be putting crosses into the box.

Forgot about Khan on international duty.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

Don't want to go in on anyone but the point about Pyke and laziness is sadly one I'm nodding to.  I thought he looked incredibly lethargic when he came on and on multiple occasions he was watching play from 10 yards away without making a move towards it.  He needs to do more.
.

Offers absolutely nothing when he comes on. Wasn't even closing down or harrying them particularly. I really think Hurst has dropped a clanger if we've only got three strikers and Pyke is one of them. I get that we've been slightly unfortunate with the injury to Wilson, who I'm impressed by, but it's so frustrating that our squad is let down so much by the lack of striking options.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Wouldn't object to that wingback system, forza.  

I don't think either Clifton or Efete are best used as wingbacks but it's about avoiding getting overrun down the flanks and offering an overload in the middle, without sacrificing any support for the striker.  Eisa was pretty ineffective in that No 10 role earlier in the season though, I think he's someone who needs to be cutting inside.

Trying to create overloads in the middle will undoubtedly make us easier to defend and more susceptible to counter attacks.

Principles of defending is to get compact and then look to delay, deflect and deny. Delay an attack, slow it down so the team can get reorganised. Deflect the play, look to push players away from goal, run them into the wide areas. Deny the opposition, be that crosses, shots or simply getting tackles in to gain possession.

If we try to overload the middle we're adding more players into a congested area which limits space and increases our margin for error. It also means that the space is wide and that's where we'll have to push the ball. Not a bad scenario if we were good at getting bodies into the box and our deliveries were good, which I'd argue they're not the best quality of teams we've seen so far.

I'd work the opposite. Try to create overloads in the wide areas that pulls central opposition players across creating gaps in the middle that we look to exploit in the final third.

The problem for us with either scenario is that pace invariably increases your ability to exploit what you create. When we probe slowly we allow the opposition to regroup meaning any spaces we've opened up are suitably plugged by the opposition. A slow and patient approach is based on the idea that eventually the opposition will step in to win the ball and you seize that initiative but it requires a lot of awareness both on and off the ball and I think a sizeable issue is our off-the-ball work hasn't been inventive or creative enough to aid the player on the ball. Hence our performances have been impressive in the sense of how we're retaining the ball and moving it, but in terms of frequency of flowing moves it's lacking as a result. Just a view.

In defence of Efete's defending capabilities. He's been played on the wrong side for the past two matches and has been more solid than Mullarkey. Swindon and Barrow were more dangerous attacking our right side. I like Mullarkey as a player btw, but feel Michee gets written off far too often. Still think we miss his presence, energy, pace and power down the right as well as his capability of arriving in the box..

And if we're going to play two up top, I think we need Hunt's passing range too.

Both highly contentious opinions on here. But look where we are without either..