Just back  (merged)

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Haven't read through all but my thoughts.
We have two fit left backs but aren't playing them. Don't like that.
Our right hand side was far too open there was space there to be exploited which wasn't really addressed.
I thought Otis Khan had a good game. Obviously the goalscorers took their chances well.
I don't mind looking at playing back and switching looking for space but we were too slow in both moving the ball and movement of players.
I recall one move there only being one available pass, a Barrow player cutting off that passing line then the ball being recycled.Thats too easy.
There were some good moments when we looked better than the level but they were too few and there was a ridiculous amount of desperate defending when we should have been controlling the game.
I hope the ref takes a look back and addresses his performance. I know we slate refs but he was at a different game to me.
Onwards we go, hopefully a win lifts spirits . We will see at Tranmere

Otis Khan had a poor game based on the sentence before you said he had a good game. He left Mullarkey exposed time after time much as Eisa left Efete exposed but to a lesser extent.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Otis Khan had a poor game based on the sentence before you said he had a good game. He left Mullarkey exposed time after time much as Eisa left Efete exposed but to a lesser extent.

Nothing has changed my opinion on Khan from seeing him before he signed for us and the time he's had here - a bits and pieces mid table league 2 winger who needs a good season otherwise he will end up  in the NL at best .

What has happened to Amos? He played reasonably well in 2 games, on the bench for 2 games and then dropped. Efete is okay on the right but as a left back he is out of position. Glennon's form has been woeful but he was on the bench.

I wonder why we have 2 left backs and don't play them.

Potentially because Hurst thinks they’re dog? Think he had all his eggs in one basket on deadline day & it didn’t work out.

Quoted from Heisenberg

I’m trying to work out what Amos has done wrong, personally.

With you on that one. i think we are a better team with him in. Miche'se done OK and so why not play him at right back. Mullarkey possibly centre back?
Hurst seems to treat Amos badly to me and I think he is a decent left back.
As for the game, we defended well but it was a 4 out of 10 show and Barrow looked a different level to our clogging style. We have square pegs in round holes and although I am a Hurst supporter his current team selections appear wierd to me. Glennon has been out of form but I saw nothing wrong with Amos and he is better than Michee. It feels a bit like the situation with Orsi , unless we miss something in training. Anyway a great 3 points, play like that on Saturday and we get well beaten. I love a win but came out of the ground deflated after that and fearing a struggle at the bottom this season.
utm

Our current travails leads me to think about the role of data, statistics and character which are things regularly talked about on here and elsewhere. You have to keep up to date with these things, apparently.

This team presumably has been assembled with all those things at the forefront of the recruitment process, yet here we are with an incoherent team, a squad not gelling and no discernable style of play, very little urgency and creating few chances from open play and even less from set pieces.

So what is the conclusion we can draw? Has the recruitment process been compromised by stats that look good but are misleading? Or has the recruitment been good but that is because playing for a different manager in a different system lead to different outcomes? Has the data found us better players but the coaching isn't up to par, or they don't like the system or they just aren't gelling?

I can't believe any self respective manager would take too much notice of data rather than his own eyes but you never know.

My conclusions for what they are worth is that there is no substitute for a manager recognising a blend of players is important,  despite what the data may tell you. There is no substitute for great coaching even if the players may be better technically,  and a lot of players for often unknown reasons do far better at some clubs than others, regardless of stats.

The trouble with data is that it can be misconstrued or misinterpreted leading to the completely wrong diagnosis.

I hope in the January window we worry less about data and more about getting players who will re-ignite the passion and verve we need.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Our current travails leads me to think about the role of data, statistics and character which are things regularly talked about on here and elsewhere. You have to keep up to date with these things, apparently.

This team presumably has been assembled with all those things at the forefront of the recruitment process, yet here we are with an incoherent team, a squad not gelling and no discernable style of play, very little urgency and creating few chances from open play and even less from set pieces.

So what is the conclusion we can draw? Has the recruitment process been compromised by stats that look good but are misleading? Or has the recruitment been good but that is because playing for a different manager in a different system lead to different outcomes? Has the data found us better players but the coaching isn't up to par, or they don't like the system or they just aren't gelling?

I can't believe any self respective manager would take too much notice of data rather than his own eyes but you never know.

My conclusions for what they are worth is that there is no substitute for a manager recognising a blend of players is important,  despite what the data may tell you. There is no substitute for great coaching even if the players may be better technically,  and a lot of players for often unknown reasons do far better at some clubs than others, regardless of stats.

The trouble with data is that it can be misconstrued or misinterpreted leading to the completely wrong diagnosis.

I hope in the January window we worry less about data and more about getting players who will re-ignite the passion and verve we need.

I don't understand how data would lead you to a conclusion of having 5 players on the books who's best position is left wing/left midfield , it's frankly bizarre .

Playing a centre back right back , a right back left back and invariably a RM , who really isn't one - it's so strange I can't remember exact line ups but you would have said  :

Magnay Pearson Gowling Robertson
Colback Disley Clay Clifton /Mcglaughlin
                    Amond/Conell/Mcatee
                   Bogle/Hearn/Taylor  

It doesn't matter what season it was , it would be a tucked in winger one side , with a wide wide winger the other  , two working their nuts off in CM , and a settled back four with everyone playing in their natural position . Playing  % football , but playing some football in the opposition half .Never get too many men ahead of the ball and a really solid block when the opposition had it - contrast that to the other night and Crawley ; there were spaces in the middle of the park wide as the Mersey tunnel .  

Then from at some point last season there was a massive change in his thinking - certainly in formation (3-5-2 ,4-3-3 , 3-4-3 )  and the wilingness to stick with a team . I don't buy it's because of injuries because when people were injured before he would stick with his favoured formation and just change personnel to fit his philosophy .

It's not even a criticism , I would just be really interested in his thinking behind the changes , someone who has always been a stubborn manager and generally done well with a set style suddenly seems willing to try almost anything when at a time not so long ago , suggestion of a change of philosophy would have been met with a firm glare that said 'us shape'.

A change of ethos ?
Fan pressure ?
More input from those around him ?
Data ?
Boardroom pressure or lack of worry over the future of his position so willing to experiment ?
Maybe something else , maybe a mixture of all those .


Would love to know .



              

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Our current travails leads me to think about the role of data, statistics and character which are things regularly talked about on here and elsewhere. You have to keep up to date with these things, apparently.

This team presumably has been assembled with all those things at the forefront of the recruitment process, yet here we are with an incoherent team, a squad not gelling and no discernable style of play, very little urgency and creating few chances from open play and even less from set pieces.

So what is the conclusion we can draw? Has the recruitment process been compromised by stats that look good but are misleading? Or has the recruitment been good but that is because playing for a different manager in a different system lead to different outcomes? Has the data found us better players but the coaching isn't up to par, or they don't like the system or they just aren't gelling?

I can't believe any self respective manager would take too much notice of data rather than his own eyes but you never know.

My conclusions for what they are worth is that there is no substitute for a manager recognising a blend of players is important,  despite what the data may tell you. There is no substitute for great coaching even if the players may be better technically,  and a lot of players for often unknown reasons do far better at some clubs than others, regardless of stats.

The trouble with data is that it can be misconstrued or misinterpreted leading to the completely wrong diagnosis.

I hope in the January window we worry less about data and more about getting players who will re-ignite the passion and verve we need.

The clubs I am involved with, both in the EFL and non-league, use statistics to varying degrees. They use data to measure performance, potential transfers etc.

None of them use statistics as the sole measure for any aspect of playing, management or transfer strategy. The statistics are a tool. Town will be no different.

With due respect, like with the player/club location issue, you’ve taken one aspect of a discussion and viewed it as an absolute.

Last year, I posted a true anecdote about finding a copy of Razzle and a Lincoln v Burnley programme in a box of Town programmes my Dad had passed on to me.

The evidence suggests he enjoyed a bit of blue and cherished his visit to Sincil Bank to keep the programme.

My Dad’s Razzle dazzle and trip to Lincoln will have had some impact on the man he is today.

However, there is no other evidence that indicates he is a pörn addict or a secret Imp. It is part of the package of life experience that produces the end result; a loving father.

In the same way, just because Town utilise statistics, data and place importance on character, they are just part of the many factors that mix together to produce a squad of the Conteh’s and the Pyke’s (Zidanes y Pavónes - except Pyke’s not homegrown). They will still view potential signings, either in the flesh or on video. It’s a bittersweet symphony but history shows you’ll be a lucky man and it will eventually identify the verve you require. The next Ashcroft could be just around the corner.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

The clubs I am involved with, both in the EFL and non-league, use statistics to varying degrees. They use data to measure performance, potential transfers etc.

None of them use statistics as the sole measure for any aspect of playing, management or transfer strategy. The statistics are a tool. Town will be no different.

With due respect, like with the player/club location issue, you’ve taken one aspect of a discussion and viewed it as an absolute.

Last year, I posted a true anecdote about finding a copy of Razzle and a Lincoln v Burnley programme in a box of Town programmes my Dad had passed on to me.

The evidence suggests he enjoyed a bit of blue and cherished his visit to Sincil Bank to keep the programme.

My Dad’s Razzle dazzle and trip to Lincoln will have had some impact on the man he is today.

However, there is no other evidence that indicates he is a pörn addict or a secret Imp. It is part of the package of life experience that produces the end result; a loving father.

In the same way, just because Town utilise statistics, data and place importance on character, they are just part of the many factors that mix together to produce a squad of the Conteh’s and the Pyke’s (Zidanes y Pavónes - except Pyke’s not homegrown). They will still view potential signings, either in the flesh or on video. It’s a bittersweet symphony but history shows you’ll be a lucky man and it will eventually identify the verve you require. The next Ashcroft could be just around the corner.

I am anti data because all my working life I have seen it abused, distorted, misinterpreted, misrepresented,  skewed to show one side of an argument. It is often not used as a tool at all; it is a way of making something fit or not to a pre ordained position. In that sense you are right it is an absolute for me.

I hadn't give it any thought as to how data is used in football until I started seeing the xg stats. Some people were genuinely getting excited that we had a high xg despite the fact we scored nil.

Some argue that we will learn a lot from that because we can apply any changes necessary in the next game. There is just the one flaw in that argument in that the circumstances of the next game are completely and utterly different and the previous xg meant absolutely nothing.

I see people raving that player x has made the most Interceptions. What on earth is that about?! Without context it also means absolutely nothing. If he intercepts it and a second later smashes into his own net, or gives the ball away and then has to make another Interception his ratings are going up all the time!

Of course I understand that clubs use data as another tool, but we have made a thing about getting data analysts so it is a good conversation to have but there is nothing to compare to seeing a player live two or three times to get a true reflection of his ability.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

The clubs I am involved with, both in the EFL and non-league, use statistics to varying degrees. They use data to measure performance, potential transfers etc.

None of them use statistics as the sole measure for any aspect of playing, management or transfer strategy. The statistics are a tool. Town will be no different.

With due respect, like with the player/club location issue, you’ve taken one aspect of a discussion and viewed it as an absolute.

Last year, I posted a true anecdote about finding a copy of Razzle and a Lincoln v Burnley programme in a box of Town programmes my Dad had passed on to me.

The evidence suggests he enjoyed a bit of blue and cherished his visit to Sincil Bank to keep the programme.

My Dad’s Razzle dazzle and trip to Lincoln will have had some impact on the man he is today.

However, there is no other evidence that indicates he is a pörn addict or a secret Imp. It is part of the package of life experience that produces the end result; a loving father.

In the same way, just because Town utilise statistics, data and place importance on character, they are just part of the many factors that mix together to produce a squad of the Conteh’s and the Pyke’s (Zidanes y Pavónes - except Pyke’s not homegrown). They will still view potential signings, either in the flesh or on video. It’s a bittersweet symphony but history shows you’ll be a lucky man and it will eventually identify the verve you require. The next Ashcroft could be just around the corner.

Isn't the point though that if you can buy these statistics, as GTFC has, then people are reading what we're reading? But a manager's thoughts/nous/skill/competency, call it what you will, is ours, and ours alone.