Covid vaccine

Her chances of catching it at some point were pretty high as this virus is going to be with us forever. But yes, chances of death were slim.

Very unfortunate for the girl and her family, obviously. It's why the JCVI aren't recommending the use of the AZ vaccine in under-40s in this country any longer. The risk ratio for over-30s is skewed the other way, just. For over-40s, it's orders of magnitude safer than contracting Covid-19.

I seem to remember reading that PHE reckons that around 14,000 lives have been saved by the vaccination programme in the UK so far. Many more spared hospitalisation and the problems that can cause and probably plenty who have avoided contracting Long Covid as well. Regrettably, a few hundred deaths caused by vaccine complications are acceptable in a public health emergency.

Quoted from Maringer

Her chances of catching it at some point were pretty high as this virus is going to be with us forever. But yes, chances of death were slim.

Very unfortunate for the girl and her family, obviously. It's why the JCVI aren't recommending the use of the AZ vaccine in under-40s in this country any longer. The risk ratio for over-30s is skewed the other way, just. For over-40s, it's orders of magnitude safer than contracting Covid-19.

I seem to remember reading that PHE reckons that around 14,000 lives have been saved by the vaccination programme in the UK so far. Many more spared hospitalisation and the problems that can cause and probably plenty who have avoided contracting Long Covid as well. Regrettably, a few hundred deaths caused by vaccine complications are acceptable in a public health emergency.

I think personally if your fit and healthy and under 50 there is absolutely no need to be taking unnecessary risks with these vaccines.

It is very sad when anybody dies and covid does not respect age. Her death however, was only said to be down to the vaccination by her family and friends.

'Her condition was said to be a reaction from the Covid Astra Zeneca vaccine according to friends and family on social media.'

While the under 50's maybe healthy and fit the problem is that they may have covid and pass it onto others who are not healthy and fit. So to me, it's better for all to be vaccinated to protect each other from carrying it and passing it on.

(Replying to Humbercod)

Then you have no understanding of what this novel Coronavirus can do on rare occasions to even the fittest and healthiest young person. One of the earliest traced patients in Italy (who infected a number of others) and who was on ventilation for weeks before surviving with crippled health, was a 37 year old super-fit marathon runner. You can't control how your immune system will react to this virus. An unlucky minority suffer severe and debilitating illness or death even when they are fit and healthy.

Heck, they even produced an easy to use graphic last month to illustrate the risks of the AZ vaccine in comparison to catching Covid:



Back then (earlyish April), if you were in your 30s, you had a 3-fold greater risk of serious harm from catching Covid than from the AZ vaccine. In your 40s, an 11-fold greater risk, in your 50s a 26-fold greater risk and so on.

The risk of catching Covid fell greatly (because the number of people vaccinated reduced transmission!) and this is why they changed the advice about under-40s getting an alternative to the AZ vaccine. If the data hadn't shown the good news that vaccines reduced transmission the risk factors would have remained similar and those in their 30s would still be getting the AZ vaccine now.

What is most bizarre about your stance is that the early data indicates that the B.1.167.2 'Indian' variant booming in areas around the country now could be up to 60% more transmissible than the B.1.1.7 Kent variant. This being the case, without a vaccination, the chances are that you'll be catching this at some point. The current vaccines are pretty effective against the 'Indian' variant but the more people catch this one (in the UK and around the world), the more chance of a variant emerging which can escape the vaccines.

As it stands, you're hoping to benefit from herd immunity developed by the actions of others. Entirely your choice, of course, but please don't try to spread anti-vaxx propaganda and sow doubt when the data doesn't indicate you have a leg to stand on.

Quoted from Maringer

(Replying to Humbercod)

Then you have no understanding of what this novel Coronavirus can do on rare occasions to even the fittest and healthiest young person. One of the earliest traced patients in Italy (who infected a number of others) and who was on ventilation for weeks before surviving with crippled health, was a 37 year old super-fit marathon runner. You can't control how your immune system will react to this virus. An unlucky minority suffer severe and debilitating illness or death even when they are fit and healthy.

Heck, THEY even produced an easy to use graphic last month to illustrate the risks of the AZ vaccine in comparison to catching Covid:

They🤔

Quoted Text

Back then (earlyish April), if you were in your 30s, you had a 3-fold greater risk of serious harm from catching Covid than from the AZ vaccine. In your 40s, an 11-fold greater risk, in your 50s a 26-fold greater risk and so on.

The risk of catching Covid fell greatly (because the number of people vaccinated reduced transmission!) and this is why they changed the advice about under-40s getting an alternative to the AZ vaccine. If the data hadn't shown the good news that vaccines reduced transmission the risk factors would have remained similar and those in their 30s would still be getting the AZ vaccine now.

What is most bizarre about your stance is that the early data indicates that the B.1.167.2 'Indian' variant booming in areas around the country now could be up to 60% more transmissible than the B.1.1.7 Kent variant. This being the case, without a vaccination, the chances are that you'll be catching this at some point. The current vaccines are pretty effective against the 'Indian' variant but the more people catch this one (in the UK and around the world), the more chance of a variant emerging which can escape the vaccines.

The Indian variant was shown to be yet more scaremongering government propaganda. Spoiler alert... plenty more variants to come in time for winter ....prepare for your experimental booster shots. Expect flue to be more prevalent this year as well due to falling immunity levels.

Quoted Text

As it stands, you're hoping to benefit from herd immunity developed by the actions of others. Entirely your choice, of course, but please don't try to spread anti-vaxx propaganda and sow doubt when the data doesn't indicate you have a leg to stand on.

As it stands I’m trusting my immune system to do it’s job, I’m not anti -vax or trying to spread anti-vax Propaganda. The stooges who churn this garbage out amounts to emotional blackmail, conditioned by the world leaders. You’ve got to keep making those billionaires hey Mariner!  Good old capitalism 😀

Quoted from Humbercod

They🤔

The Indian variant was shown to be yet more scaremongering government propaganda. Spoiler alert... plenty more variants to come in time for winter ....prepare for your experimental booster shots. Expect flue to be more prevalent this year as well due to falling immunity levels.

As it stands I’m trusting my immune system to do it’s job, I’m not anti -vax or trying to spread anti-vax Propaganda. The stooges who churn this garbage out amounts to emotional blackmail, conditioned by the world leaders. You’ve got to keep making those billionaires hey Mariner!  Good old capitalism 😀

"They". Easier than saying the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication of the University of Cambridge. Serious statisticians with the capability to analyse and understand the data - and communicate it clearly.

No, the Indian variant hasn't shown to be yet more scaremongering government propaganda. If you think it has, then please show us the evidence. Otherwise, you're the one doing the scaremongering.

B.1.167.2 appears to be outcompeting B.1.1.7 which itself outcompeted previous variants to become the dominant variant in much of the world. The data appears to show that B.1.1.7 is also more than 60% more deadly than the earlier variants as well:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/new.....-variant-study-finds

Hopefully, the 'Indian' variant has a mortality rate a bit closer to the variants which were prevalent before Christmas, but this isn't clear as yet.

Your final paragraph was just word soup so I don't have a response to that one.

Quoted Text

"They". Easier than saying the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication of the University of Cambridge. Serious statisticians with the capability to analyse and understand the data - and communicate it clearly.

These figures based on incidences of 2 per 10000 (as illustration) are potential!
They are also out of date not including the uprising of side effects that include the already reported blood clots with this vaccine, l just really hope come winter the potential ADE responses don’t materialise as a result of the experimental jabs.

Quoted Text

No, the Indian variant hasn't shown to be yet more scaremongering government propaganda. If you think it has, then please show us the evidence. Otherwise, you're the one doing the scaremongering.

With regards to the UK with which I was referring I can only find 4 reported deaths from the Indian variant! Yes 4 really just to clarify. Pure scaremongering for us to keep taking the needle, I believe they will start ramping this up with a new variant before Autumn to target our kids with threats of schools closures backed up with more dodgy PCR tests.

In other news first man to get vaccinated dies of unrelated ‘cough’ illness. Nothing to see here.

He was vaccinated in December which coincides with many on social media who are now saying there elderly loved ones vaccinated at the end of last year and early this year are now having bad reactions from heart attacks strokes even returning menstrual cycles and sadly death have been reported.

I know these story’s can’t be substantiated but I’ve read many of the reports and it is worrying, if anybody has any bad reactions on here make sure they are logged on the corona virus yellow card reporting site.

Some useful charts to indicate the trajectory of the 'Indian' variant at present. Bear in mind these only go up to 15th May:



(Sorry - don't know how to get it to show more than 1 image at a time, so will be multiple posts)

Those two charts were posted by Prof Christina Pagel, member of the Independent Sage group, generated from publicly available data.

Check out this twitter thread about the latest data on B.1.617.2 from Pagel. Long but interesting:



Ultimately, if the data on this variant keeps heading this direction, we're going to be back in lockdown before you know it. I'm supposed to be going on holiday in the UK in 2 months. I'm not so sure we'll be allowed, given the apparent way this variant is heading. I've got another trip booked in later September - still quite hopeful about that one.

Interesting that people keep trotting out the ‘we’ll be back in lockdown before we know it’ phrase...hoping that if they say it enough folk will believe it?

I had my vaccine weeks and weeks ago out of respect for my boss who had to spend hours organising the whole thing for our 45 staff. Several were severely ill and two weren’t allowed their second dose or advised against. We’ve a staff member, 23 who has been off work recently for another matter who has now tested positive...

We either crack on and return to actually normal, not this new normal they talk of else we’re stuck, worrying about something which fundamentally doesn’t go away, much like everything else...the fact they’re talking of booster jabs already suggest the vaccines, unlike those for TB etc. aren’t that effective.

I’m not anti vax in the slightest, I’m just fed up with the scaremongering, the whataboutery and the panic caused by media outlets and so on...not to mention the self righteous mammary you encounter every so often that tuts Becauee you need to get passed them or stand too close in their eyes...

It’s tiresome now and I, along with many must be fed up of the lies and hyperbole...remember when we were told that once the most vulnerable were all vaccinated we’d be cracking on...

I’m done with it all, I’ve never taken a test, I’ve not isolated, or been able to and I’ve not had so much as a sniffle in nearly two years...now if we want to talk about the ineptitude of government then that’s plain as day but can’t wait for those people who are obsessed with masks and the like to panic in an few weeks...