Respect the electorate or face the music.

Quoted from Stevie Cammack

No, my life was empty without your amusing pictures.  15 years.

That was pretty obvious,  because since I started to engage with you on here you can't keep away Ralph.

Quoted from LH

Personally feel they were backed into a corner and forced to go with the second referendum stance as they got trashed by the Lib Dems (as the remain party) and the BXP at the European elections and had to please everyone in the party in an election manifesto and in turn entice those from outside of it. They were six months too late changing stance. The fact that they had to defend Corbyn’s history for the duration of his tenure - true or not - didn’t help either.

The campaign was poor in Grimsby. We might have had shadow ministers come to town but I live on Scartho Top and barring a signed Melanie Onn poster to display in my front window and a couple of phone calls on election day (I’m a member) I didn’t see any of them once. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Scartho Top polling station is one of the busiest in Town on polling day - that feels an oversight. Compare the Labour effort to the Conservatives and they were out and about fairly regularly.

The party needs an overhaul. I’m not sure seeing Eddie Izzard campaigning in lipstick and a pink beret around London appeals to the ex-miners, fishermen and dockers up north. The Labour vote matters more outside of London than in it in a GE. If they mess that up again with a leftie leader again they’re done and a new centre left party needs forming that appeals to the wider nation or get trounced again for decades to come.

Decent enough summary but some points I'd take issue with.
I've worked on the last three Labour campaigns in Grimsby and this was definitely the best campaign. Given the time of year Labour activists spoke to an extraordinary number of people. Early dark nights meant the very productive evening canvass sessions were cancelled because the Labour Party didn't want to cause people any undue anxiety knocking at 7-9 p.m. This meant that sessions had to be done earlier-when large number of voters (especially somewhere like Scartho Top) are at work.
The two main issues on the doorstep were Brexit and Corbyn. Corbyn's name wasn't mentioned on any of Mel's leaflets. Even on election day there were people telling us they liked Melanie Onn but couldn't vote for her because of Corbyn. The "Save Our NHS" demo outside the hospital was well received. Scartho is the Tory's heartland. You'd expect them to be out there often-and as you say more than once. Melanie Onn was a superb constituency M.P. She was caught in a maelstrom not of her own making (and for those who say she was a late convert when it was obvious her seat was at risk- there is plenty of evidence out there to show that from an early stage she was prepared to work to make Brexit a reality). My personal view is that the so-called Northern heartlands were sacrificed for a few more votes in London. Looking at the size of the London Labour majorities they were better placed to take a Brexit "hit" than Midlands/Northern seats with much smaller ones.
For me one of the big problems was that Labour never countered the argument that they were responsible for delaying Brexit sufficiently well. A substantial part of the 3.5 years of "dither and delay" was the fault of Rees-Mogg and his merry crew who, had they got behind May could have seen us out of the E.U. at the original date. There was at that time a majority for the Tories (bought by May via the DUP). Over 100 Tories voted against May's deal and yet people expected the opposition to vote for it??
The other issue that concerns me is far more worrying. The industries that gave Labour such a commanding showing in their so-called heartlands are long gone. My first wife was from a pit village in South Yorkshire called Thurnscoe. You would have to be 50 + now to have worked in any of the local pits. The "youngsters" (i.e.anyone born after 1990) have other things that are issues to them. They probably work in a non-unionised environment (I got my interest in left of centre politics from my experience in one of the civil service unions) and will only have older relatives to tell them the horror stories of the Thatcher years. The "Blessed Margaret" has been dead a number of years. To the younger voters of Don Valley (Maltby FFS!!) she is just someone you could read about in history books. Johnson is different and, trust me, is not seen to be connected with the Tories of the Thatcher era in any way shape or form. This hasn't been a seismic shift -although it obviously picked up speed this last time. People go on about Grimsby being a safe Labour seat. The reality is that the last majority of a substantial nature was in 2005. You have to go back to 97 to find Austin's last five figure majority. There are loads of places around the midlands and the North where Labour majorities have been ebbing away. Ten years ago Labour would have had a chance of taking seats like Amber Valley in Derbyshire. The election last week saw the Tories returned with a 17000 majority. Labour remains strong in virtually all of the big cities but their core vote in those cities is not made up of its heartland voters anymore-many of those are out of the reach of any party.

Quoted from barralad

Decent enough summary but some points I'd take issue with.
I've worked on the last three Labour campaigns in Grimsby and this was definitely the best campaign. Given the time of year Labour activists spoke to an extraordinary number of people. Early dark nights meant the very productive evening canvass sessions were cancelled because the Labour Party didn't want to cause people any undue anxiety knocking at 7-9 p.m. This meant that sessions had to be done earlier-when large number of voters (especially somewhere like Scartho Top) are at work.
The two main issues on the doorstep were Brexit and Corbyn. Corbyn's name wasn't mentioned on any of Mel's leaflets. Even on election day there were people telling us they liked Melanie Onn but couldn't vote for her because of Corbyn. The "Save Our NHS" demo outside the hospital was well received. Scartho is the Tory's heartland. You'd expect them to be out there often-and as you say more than once. Melanie Onn was a superb constituency M.P. She was caught in a maelstrom not of her own making (and for those who say she was a late convert when it was obvious her seat was at risk- there is plenty of evidence out there to show that from an early stage she was prepared to work to make Brexit a reality). My personal view is that the so-called Northern heartlands were sacrificed for a few more votes in London. Looking at the size of the London Labour majorities they were better placed to take a Brexit "hit" than Midlands/Northern seats with much smaller ones.
For me one of the big problems was that Labour never countered the argument that they were responsible for delaying Brexit sufficiently well. A substantial part of the 3.5 years of "dither and delay" was the fault of Rees-Mogg and his merry crew who, had they got behind May could have seen us out of the E.U. at the original date. There was at that time a majority for the Tories (bought by May via the DUP). Over 100 Tories voted against May's deal and yet people expected the opposition to vote for it??
The other issue that concerns me is far more worrying. The industries that gave Labour such a commanding showing in their so-called heartlands are long gone. My first wife was from a pit village in South Yorkshire called Thurnscoe. You would have to be 50 + now to have worked in any of the local pits. The "youngsters" (i.e.anyone born after 1990) have other things that are issues to them. They probably work in a non-unionised environment (I got my interest in left of centre politics from my experience in one of the civil service unions) and will only have older relatives to tell them the horror stories of the Thatcher years. The "Blessed Margaret" has been dead a number of years. To the younger voters of Don Valley (Maltby FFS!!) she is just someone you could read about in history books. Johnson is different and, trust me, is not seen to be connected with the Tories of the Thatcher era in any way shape or form. This hasn't been a seismic shift -although it obviously picked up speed this last time. People go on about Grimsby being a safe Labour seat. The reality is that the last majority of a substantial nature was in 2005. You have to go back to 97 to find Austin's last five figure majority. There are loads of places around the midlands and the North where Labour majorities have been ebbing away. Ten years ago Labour would have had a chance of taking seats like Amber Valley in Derbyshire. The election last week saw the Tories returned with a 17000 majority. Labour remains strong in virtually all of the big cities but their core vote in those cities is not made up of its heartland voters anymore-many of those are out of the reach of any party.

We are very grateful to "Rees-Mogg and his merry band" because Theresa Mays deal was BRINO, which is what Melanie Onn was also advocating.

Voters are not stupid, and they realised that despite their manifesto pledges in 2017 the Labour party were not going to deliver Brexit in any meaningful sense, and it was obvious they would lose a lot of former, and I stress former, heartland seats due to the stance taken on Brexit.

Labour is not the same Labour party that our forefathers voted for; they are so far removed from normal voters it has been incredible to witness.

They don't seem to have any idea on how to change either - Clive Lewis, Rebecca Long - Bailey and David Lammy are likely to enter the leadership race and unless something happens the momemtum membership will elect another raging left winger which will ensure they are unelectable for another decade at least.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Voters are not stupid

IMHO I think anyone who voted Lib Dem cannot be considered on the usual spectrum of intelligence. Its a shame Swinson is leaving as she still has not explained what was Liberal or Democratic about trying to reverse the result of a democratic process? (I did not vote for Brexit by the way).

Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90

IMHO I think anyone who voted Lib Dem cannot be considered on the usual spectrum of intelligence. Its a shame Swinson is leaving as she still has not explained what was Liberal or Democratic about trying to reverse the result of a democratic process? (I did not vote for Brexit by the way).

Aren't they re-branding to the Liberal Undemocrats  

Respect the electorate or they'll self-harm.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Respect the electorate or they'll self-harm.

Is that what you really think? The electorate will self harm unless they vote the way you agree with?

I can assure you that the electorate are not wrong; their decision is a great indication of how the MAJORITY of the voters feel. On this occasion you are in the minority.

The generally silent majority have said in no uncertain manner that they do want Brexit and they don't want the Labour party.

Whatever happened to losing with good grace?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Is that what you really think? The electorate will self harm unless they vote the way you agree with?

I can assure you that the electorate are not wrong; their decision is a great indication of how the MAJORITY of the voters feel. On this occasion you are in the minority.

The generally silent majority have said in no uncertain manner that they do want Brexit and they don't want the Labour party.

Whatever happened to losing with good grace?

I don't think you can claim the majority of voters want Brexit anymore. Opinion polls (which did pretty well at predicting the election results) show majorities for staying in the EU. The conservatives and other right wing Brexit supporting parties achieve around 46/47%. In NI the DUP lost seats and vote share. To claim that suddenly the electorate fully supports Brexit is plain wrong.

Still, because of our electoral system we will leave the EU whether it is still the preferred option or not. This does not change the reality that the electorate is split and likely to stay so for the next few years. It also doesn't change that the country is likely to become more pro EU as time goes by. It seems that Johnson will ignore the the half of the electorate that is pro remain and as a result this half of the electorate will likely become even more pro EU. As result we'll probably be back in the EU within 20 years.

I don't really see Brexit improving lower income areas. One of the main benefits of Brexit is that Westminster gains more power. Westminster hasn't improved areas like Grimsby in the past and there is little reason to think it will now. To improve these areas wealth is going to have to be redistributed from the wealthier areas but being right wing the conservatives like to minimise redistribution.

Quoted from Bawmariner

I don't think you can claim the majority of voters want Brexit anymore. Opinion polls (which did pretty well at predicting the election results) show majorities for staying in the EU. The conservatives and other right wing Brexit supporting parties achieve around 46/47%. In NI the DUP lost seats and vote share. To claim that suddenly the electorate fully supports Brexit is plain wrong.

Still, because of our electoral system we will leave the EU whether it is still the preferred option or not. This does not change the reality that the electorate is split and likely to stay so for the next few years. It also doesn't change that the country is likely to become more pro EU as time goes by. It seems that Johnson will ignore the the half of the electorate that is pro remain and as a result this half of the electorate will likely become even more pro EU. As result we'll probably be back in the EU within 20 years.

I don't really see Brexit improving lower income areas. One of the main benefits of Brexit is that Westminster gains more power. Westminster hasn't improved areas like Grimsby in the past and there is little reason to think it will now. To improve these areas wealth is going to have to be redistributed from the wealthier areas but being right wing the conservatives like to minimise redistribution.

I didn't see any opinion polls pointing to an 80 seat Conservative majority.

You lot are just in denial about everything.

You lost on all fronts; we voted for Brexit and have re-inforced that vote. We voted Conservative (the only major party that wanted to enact the referendum result) by a huge margin and took the labour "red wall" with it.

We won't be split in "years to come." The remain forces are already fading away now the result will be implemented, which is how it should have been when we voted to leave.

The 31st of January will be a day of national rejoicing. You won't join in, but that is up to you.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I didn't see any opinion polls pointing to an 80 seat Conservative majority.

You lot are just in denial about everything.

You lost on all fronts; we voted for Brexit and have re-inforced that vote. We voted Conservative (the only major party that wanted to enact the referendum result) by a huge margin and took the labour "red wall" with it.

We won't be split in "years to come." The remain forces are already fading away now the result will be implemented, which is how it should have been when we voted to leave.

The 31st of January will be a day of national rejoicing. You won't join in, but that is up to you.

What have you won? What is Brexit going to deliver? You right I have lost. I've lost the EHIC which meant my girlfriend could have an operation on her appendix in Estonia for 5 euros. I've lost the right to work in the EU without a visa. I've lost free internet when I'm abroad. I'm not particularly happy about that.

Say what you like. I personally will be supporting this country rejoining the EU as will a lot of people I know. The majority of Brexit voters will have died off in 20/30 years so by that point we'll be free to rejoin all be it on worse terms.