Respect the electorate or face the music.

Quoted from Dan

I mean there’s definitely an argument to be made that we should have honoured the result of the referendum. It was relatively close, and a reasonable leave scenario could have been agreed upon had the tories, and the ERG specifically been less intransigent. As someone who votes remain, the day after the referendum I was perfectly happy to accept leave based upon reasonable terms. But then the leave side became more extreme, demanding no deal, and Teresa May had to go along with it because she had such a small majority. In the months after the referendum the tories never sought consensus from the remain side, it was all on their terms. The extremity of the leave position drove people to support remain whereas I suspect many would have been happy to leave on non-ERG terms. Everyone became entrenched in their positions.

I suspect we could have left in 2016/17 if a leave scenario that appeased both sides had been sought.

Anyhow, what happens from here cannot ever be blamed on those of us who never wanted it and aren’t in charge of it. I guess we’ll see what happens. I dearly hope it’s a success, I highly doubt it will be, but either way my conscience is clear.

That doesn't pan out does is, I mean the EU elections and general election say otherwise.

The fact that remoaners pushed the bad mouthing and claims for a 2nd referendum I would say more than added fuel to the ERG's claims for a hard brexit a ying and yang if you like.

I will blame remoaners if it goes wrong because with a united front in EU negotiations from the start we would have faired far better and would have left with better terms. The fact that remoaners weakened the governments position with a divided house and forced a no deal off the table was disgraceful, and anti democratic.

When you have been to a restaurant and ordered the meal of the day, and the chef serves up dog excrement are you blame for their incompetence.

That's an interesting analogy.  I'd say if I ordered the meal of the day and the chef served up dog excrement, not only would I not be to blame for their incompetence but I'd also have the right to send it back and refuse to eat it.

However, as I said on another thread, I have reconciled myself to the fact that we'll be leaving the EU, and I hope I'm wrong about the effects it will have on the country.  No one would be happier than me (that's probably a lie, I'm generally a right miserable swine) if it proves to be a success.  

So if Brexit goes mammaries up it will be the fault of those who didn't want it? Don't think that excuse will wash with the majority Johnson has now - it is all in his hands.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

So if Brexit goes mammaries up it will be the fault of those who didn't want it? Don't think that excuse will wash with the majority Johnson has now - it is all in his hands.

If Brexit goes well, the remain voters will also benefit.

It is a democratic decision we have reached, and like all democratic decisions there are some that support it, and some that are against it, but we move forward together as a country and make things work.

I hope it works and I hope Johnson sorts out fabulous trade deals and we thrive. If it doesn't work out I'm not willing to accept I'm responsible though having voted against it.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I hope it works and I hope Johnson sorts out fabulous trade deals and we thrive. If it doesn't work out I'm not willing to accept I'm responsible though having voted against it.

It will all depend on what role you played as a remainer, someone who voted to remain = no issues and no blame, remoaner those who went crying to their MP and did what they could to raise the moaning to media levels = to blame if it goes wrong as their influence fueled weak willed MP's to try and undermine democracy.

If we had a united front to start with, losers consent and where Parliament was behind the Brexit team doing the initial negotiations we would have faired far better than we did. But no the remoaners gave the remoaning politicians the ammunition to undermine the government with the ultimate aim of undermining democracy. Well the remoaners got what they deserved in the end another huge defeat and, that's a hat trick, 2016, Euro elections and the ultimate peoples vote in the general election, now remoaners have to choke on Boris huge mandate, you reap what you sow.

However the fact remains the enemy within divided the house and put our negotiating on a weaker footing by forcing no deal off the table, whether you like it or not that put us at a massive disadvantage as we were basically a captive audience and they could serve up what ever they liked and they did, it was a punishment deal to stop others who have for some time looked at leaving the EU as it isn't working for them.

I like many others believe in our great country and having lived and worked around the world it really is a great country to live in.

Quoted from Town Monkey

That's an interesting analogy.  I'd say if I ordered the meal of the day and the chef served up dog excrement, not only would I not be to blame for their incompetence but I'd also have the right to send it back and refuse to eat it.

However, as I said on another thread, I have reconciled myself to the fact that we'll be leaving the EU, and I hope I'm wrong about the effects it will have on the country.  No one would be happier than me (that's probably a lie, I'm generally a right miserable swine) if it proves to be a success.  

That's a fair reply, and your point of sending it back is a good one too, because if it doesn't work then at some point should it be a democratic will to rejoin, should the majority at some point want to rejoin the EU then I hope that the losers consent is observed, for the sake of a united front to enable a negotiated deal that benefits the UK.

I am under no illusion that once we are free from the EU that's it, if the Euro collapses as predicted the UK could be invited back under a better deal than it has now, this is a potential reality. I got fed up of politicians saying we can't do this or do that because of Brussels.

Quoted from Marinerz93

It will all depend on what role you played as a remainer, someone who voted to remain = no issues and no blame, remoaner those who went crying to their MP and did what they could to raise the moaning to media levels = to blame if it goes wrong as their influence fueled weak willed MP's to try and undermine democracy.

If we had a united front to start with, losers consent and where Parliament was behind the Brexit team doing the initial negotiations we would have faired far better than we did. But no the remoaners gave the remoaning politicians the ammunition to undermine the government with the ultimate aim of undermining democracy. Well the remoaners got what they deserved in the end another huge defeat and, that's a hat trick, 2016, Euro elections and the ultimate peoples vote in the general election, now remoaners have to choke on Boris huge mandate, you reap what you sow.

However the fact remains the enemy within divided the house and put our negotiating on a weaker footing by forcing no deal off the table, whether you like it or not that put us at a massive disadvantage as we were basically a captive audience and they could serve up what ever they liked and they did, it was a punishment deal to stop others who have for some time looked at leaving the EU as it isn't working for them.

I like many others believe in our great country and having lived and worked around the world it really is a great country to live in.

Agreed.  I voted remain, but we are a democracy, something to be proud of and something to protect at all costs.

I didn't get my 'own way', but to cry about it afterwards is toddler behaviour IMO.  

Quoted from Stevie Cammack

Agreed.  I voted remain, but we are a democracy, something to be proud of and something to protect at all costs.

I didn't get my 'own way', but to cry about it afterwards is toddler behaviour IMO.  

Interesting Stevie, I thought you'd blocked me

No, my life was empty without your amusing pictures.  15 years.