Respect the electorate or face the music.

Quoted from arryarryarry

So what are you saying that people over a certain age should not be allowed to vote if in the highly unlikely event there was another referendum?

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Well it would be a start, that, and giving 16 year olds, who will have to suffer the problems us old farts create, the vote

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I find it laughable that you think the number of immigrants is going to reduce. There will be a lot of unhappy Brexiteers in 5 years time when they realise they’ve got just as many immigrants but just from different countries.

The simple fact is that the country needs immigrants and they are massively beneficial to the economy - contributing a surplus of 15 billion a year in taxes. The amount of immigrants has not been a problem, it has been the lack of investment of the money generated in increased infrastructure and public services to cope with the increase in population by the party you’ve just voted back in.

I haven't seen anywhere that immigrants aren't welcome or needed. The numbers do need to be reduced to a manageable level as free movement stops that, this has been especially felt in Boston. For our economy to thrive we need attract the brightest and skills we currently are short of, what we don't need is low skilled, criminals, these can be filtered out.

It has been said that a net migration of 50,000 a year like post WW2 is something has proven to be manageable.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I agree with all of that, particularly your last paragraph.

Even Michael Heseltine (like the last Japnese soldier in the jungle) has at last conceded defeat, and the will of the people must be respected.

As the realisation of defeat becomes clearer and even die hard remainers accept the new norm, watch things change. The EU suddenly do not hold all the cards; they (the EU) have accepted that there is no chance of revoking article 50 and although tough, negotiations will be much more cordial.

As you point out, all this is what should have happened once the result was known. Unless we have losers consent, then we have no democracy.

For the record, I am not advocating that remain supporters have to stop campaigning, if that is what they wish. Once we have formally left the EU they can campaign for us to rejoin, again if they think so strongly about it, just as leave supporters campaigned (in some cases for decades) to leave.

The bit I highlighted in your post is exactly the point I was trying to make, democracy works when the side who effectively lost consent, remoaners never have.

Quoted from Marinerz93

I haven't seen anywhere that immigrants aren't welcome or needed. The numbers do need to be reduced to a manageable level as free movement stops that, this has been especially felt in Boston. For our economy to thrive we need attract the brightest and skills we currently are short of, what we don't need is low skilled, criminals, these can be filtered out.

It has been said that a net migration of 50,000 a year like post WW2 is something has proven to be manageable.

We have already been taking way more than that number in from non eu countries where we do have a points system. Plus Boris has scrapped the Tory target now also. So the punters that arry arry was talking about earlier are going to be disappointed.

Quoted from Marinerz93

The bit I highlighted in your post is exactly the point I was trying to make, democracy works when the side who effectively lost consent, remoaners never have.

Is it not the entire basis of democracy to allow people to hold an opposite opinion and therefore continue to oppose and withold consent even if they are in the monority.

It won't matter at all now the Conservatives can simply get everything through on the nod anyway so provided the remainers don't get silly and don't start say a campaign of civil disobedience surely they can just carry on being dissatisfied with the outcome, they can't influence anything any more and will have to take whatever they are served up.

Quoted from Ipswin

Is it not the entire basis of democracy to allow people to hold an opposite opinion and therefore continue to oppose and withold consent even if they are in the monority.

It won't matter at all now the Conservatives can simply get everything through on the nod anyway so provided the remainers don't get silly and don't start say a campaign of civil disobedience surely they can just carry on being dissatisfied with the outcome, they can't influence anything any more and will have to take whatever they are served up.

No, when the loser withholds consent that's not democracy, for democracy to work, what the majority voted for needs to be implemented especially when other parties say they will respect and uphold the decision, that's not just the referendum but general election too. Leave won the most votes as did the Tories.

The campaigning for the losing side should be started as soon as the winning sides decision has been implemented, otherwise what is the point of voting.

Lets say the Euro collapses, as this was part of claim from some economists, and to save the EU, the UK was offered very favourable terms far better than what we have before we leave the EU, we could vote on a return to full membership should it suit our needs.

I think it is fair to say that the reason we are in the position we are in now with a Tory majority is a hard lesson for the remoaners, as this is ultimately their fault, they will reap what they sow.

Quoted from Marinerz93

. Leave won the most votes as did the Tories.


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The Tories won 44% of the votes from those who voted in the election but that represents only 29.5% of the total population,

I would say Johnson should take note but of course as he now has 5 years he can do whatever he likes with no fear of opposition so what the majority voted for will be implemented

Quoted from Ipswin

The Tories won 44% of the votes from those who voted in the election but that represents only 29.5% of the total population,

I would say Johnson should take note but of course as he now has 5 years he can do whatever he likes with no fear of opposition so what the majority voted for will be implemented

Our Parliament is won on seats, not numbers of people, this is how the election has been run since the year dot, didn't labour say they were going to change that, wonder what happened there, maybe because the majority they had at the time suited them.

The number of seats lost to the Tories in Labour heart lands is the most shocking thing about this general election. People who when interviewed said they voted Tory and didn't feel good about it is another question why people went against their core values to vote for a party they thought they would never vote for.

I would agree that Borris should take note and he should also look to redistribute the wealth generated in London to up North, will he, only time will tell, I don't think he will. Incidentally did Blair look after the north when he was in the hot seat for 10 years, I don't recall anything he did for the north or this area.

Quoted from Ipswin

The Tories won 44% of the votes from those who voted in the election but that represents only 29.5% of the total population,

I would say Johnson should take note but of course as he now has 5 years he can do whatever he likes with no fear of opposition so what the majority voted for will be implemented

I have seen that argument many times before about a minority of the population supporting the winning position.

Trouble is, is it always said by those who just lost the election.referendum/raffle*

*delete as appropriate.

Of course, even less percentage of the population voted for the losing side.

Quoted from Maringer

An in/out referendum which leads to half of the electorate being ignored was a terrible idea in the first place, especially what 'out' actually meant was never discussed beforehand. This is still the case.

Also, as has been noted many times before, we're already past the time when the remain vote would be likely to be higher, simply due to the change in demographics i.e. leavers dying in greater numbers than remainers reaching voting age.

Ashcroft's polls are useful once again:

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/.....tion-post-vote-poll/

Look at the age weighting of the Tory vote:



Remarkable how the pensioners, who will be with us for less time than the young, are those deciding what occurs. No doubt, the young will have had a much lower turnout once again, so I suppose they only have themselves to blame. Of course, if Brexit is a disaster as remains possible (no pun intended), it is pretty obvious who will be due the blame.

Interesting times ahead.

Will you, as one Town fan to another, ever admit to being on the losing side? You lost, fair and square.This time you are trying to pin the blame on pensioners for God's sake.

It is so fundamental to democracy I am amazed you can't see it; losing is part and parcel of the democratic process.

All your energies should go to understanding why the left is losing every argument. Take Paul Mason on Newsnight last night - he seemed bewildered that the view on the much maligned doorstop did not match his world view! His attitude is to change the mindset of normal folk, who on the doorstep told him they don't want mass unlimited immigration, they don't think multiculturism has been a success, and they want their potential leaders to be upbeat and patriotic. What he should be doing, is moving towards the people, not asking the people to move to him.

Politics is about real people, and how they see the world. They are not too bothered about how a graph can show that actually they are "wrong"; what they see with their own eyes can be disproved with a graph or two, or statistics from some "independent" think tank or other (but when you dig deeper,  you find they are funded by some pro left or pro EU organisation, or from the other side of the argument.)