B Corp

Quoted from Maringer

What on earth are you talking about?

You can't ignore one side of the balance sheet because you are trying to make a (baseless) point. One person's expenditure is another person's income.

You appear to be claiming that the state's 'expenditure' on these folk just disappears into the aether. It doesn't, it is spent back into the economy and most of it will ultimately end up back with the exchequer.

The figures quoted by Chrisblor from the HEPI report are quite specific, yet you're trying to ignore them. The report is free to access:

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-cont.....ational-students.pdf

If you'd like to read it through and point out where you think they've gone wrong, feel free to do so. Otherwise, you're just making baseless claims which appear to be founded on a lack of understanding about how the economy actually works, whilst completely disregarding a report produced by a thinktank employing specialist economists.

A tourist goes to a Greek island and stays overnight for which he pays the hotelier £1. The hotelier uses the £1 to pay the long outstanding bakers bill the baker uses the £1 he gets to pay his long outstanding flour bill etc etc the £ is passed around nine times and all outstanding debts on the island have been repaid..
How much wealth has been created?
In you world it would £9.
In mine it would be £1

Quoted from HerveJosse

A tourist goes to a Greek island and stays overnight for which he pays the hotelier £1. The hotelier uses the £1 to pay the long outstanding bakers bill the baker uses the £1 he gets to pay his long outstanding flour bill etc etc the £ is passed around nine times and all outstanding debts on the island have been repaid..
How much wealth has been created?
In you world it would £9.
In mine it would be £1

Somebody hasn't heard of the multiplier effect:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/multiplier.asp

Interestingly, it is well-pronounced when tourists spend money into an economy as well:

https://www.howandwhat.net/tourism-multiplier-effect/

If you want to be crude, you could say that these students bringing money into the economy are effectively 'tourists' (though they obviously become much more integrated into society), so that makes your example even more wrong.

{unnecessary dig removed}

Quoted from Maringer

Somebody hasn't heard of the multiplier effect:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/multiplier.asp

Interestingly, it is well-pronounced when tourists spend money into an economy as well:

https://www.howandwhat.net/tourism-multiplier-effect/

If you want to be crude, you could say that these students bringing money into the economy are effectively 'tourists' (though they obviously become much more integrated into society), so that makes your example even more wrong.

Keep on digging.

I think you are the one digging

Having studied economics at university when I got out into real life I realised a lot of what they taught was balderdash.

The most useful thing my lecturer ever said was if you want to be able to wonder around the office and not ever be asked what you are doing always carry a piece of paper in your hand . He was assuming most of us would go  onto work for the state or academia which I didn’t so I never found out if it was true

Quoted from HerveJosse

I think you are the one digging

Apologies for the unnecessary final dig.

But you're still entirely wrong and you are still refusing to engage with any of the data provided which clearly contradicts your selected viewpoint. You appear to have an emotional attachment to the idea and emotion doesn't stand up to empirical fact.

Quoted from Maringer

Apologies for the unnecessary final dig.

But you're still entirely wrong and you are still refusing to engage with any of the data provided which clearly contradicts your selected viewpoint. You appear to have an emotional attachment to the idea and emotion doesn't stand up to empirical fact.

I have given you a simple example of why what you call the multiplier effect ( passing the same £1 around different people) doesn’t create wealth.

I will just have to keep being entirely wrong I am afraid . Perhaps one day you might think a bit more deeply about things other then saying it’s in a report so it must be right. That day is clearly not imminent so let’s leave it there.

Quoted from HerveJosse

I have given you a simple example of why what you call the multiplier effect ( passing the same £1 around different people) doesn’t create wealth.

I will just have to keep being entirely wrong I am afraid . Perhaps one day you might think a bit more deeply about things other then saying it’s in a report so it must be right. That day is clearly not imminent so let’s leave it there.

It is interesting to hear that not only are all the economic textbooks incorrect, but a couple of thousand universities around the world have been teaching economics students false information for many decades.

Have you thought about letting them all know they are wrong? Obviously, you'll need to explain to thousands of professors and other academics why this is the case and also explain why all the empirical data shows the multiplier effect actually works. Can you start here and explain to us why there is no such thing as the multiplier effect? What you've already posted doesn't show this, it shows you misunderstand fiscal multipliers.

You'll need to contact all the national banks to explain that they are incorrect as well. Bank of England, ECB, the Fed, Bundesbank and so forth.

Want to know something which will really blow your mind? All money is nothing but government debt, at least since fiat currencies came into existence, and governments can create as much of it as they want. When a politician says we can't afford something, they aren't telling the truth. It might not be worthwhile to spend the money into existence, but it is certainly possible.

Oh, and banks don't lend out reserves. When you get a loan/mortgage, the banks create the money at the stroke of a key. They don't need to borrow it from anywhere. They just create it.

Quoted from Maringer

It is interesting to hear that not only are all the economic textbooks incorrect, but a couple of thousand universities around the world have been teaching economics students false information for many decades.

Have you thought about letting them all know they are wrong? Obviously, you'll need to explain to thousands of professors and other academics why this is the case and also explain why all the empirical data shows the multiplier effect actually works. Can you start here and explain to us why there is no such thing as the multiplier effect? What you've already posted doesn't show this, it shows you misunderstand fiscal multipliers.

You'll need to contact all the national banks to explain that they are incorrect as well. Bank of England, ECB, the Fed, Bundesbank and so forth.

Want to know something which will really blow your mind? All money is nothing but government debt, at least since fiat currencies came into existence, and governments can create as much of it as they want. When a politician says we can't afford something, they aren't telling the truth. It might not be worthwhile to spend the money into existence, but it is certainly possible.

Oh, and banks don't lend out reserves. When you get a loan/mortgage, the banks create the money at the stroke of a key. They don't need to borrow it from anywhere. They just create it.

Sorry but as an early follower of cryptocurrency investment the notion that all Fiat currencies are doomed to perpetual decline in real value as government  print more and more money doesn’t blow my mind at all.

What does blow my mind is that you appear to recognise this but still believe reports prepared by self interest quangos and economics text books unchanged from the days before computers came into use

Crypto investment, eh? A bit of gambling because crypto which isn't backed up by a nation state is fool's gold, though if you get in early enough, you can make some dosh. In fact, the likes of Bitcoin and subsequent attempts at crypto are actually very damaging due to the amount of energy wasted to mine them. You don't hear much about crypto-currencies in the news any longer as most people have realised they are a busted flush in the long term.

As you've decided that the perceived wisdom about economics is a load of guff (in spite of all the empirical evidence to the contrary), my guess is that you have drunk the libertarian 'kool-aid' so there is little point in continuing the discussion. Libertarianism (in the modern sense) is nonsense pushed, in general, by the wealthy right who simply don't want to pay their taxes and they don't care about what happens when the state is diminished. They can always remain in their closed communities and afford to have people to guard them and their own doctors to treat them. It's a deeply distasteful concept to me.

You don't get much of this libertarian guff in this country because generations have benefitted from the NHS and people, but for the most unhinged of Tories, believe the state can be run as a force of good as well as helping to provide the necessities of life. Not that you would know it from the way the Tories have behaved since 2010. I suppose you probably follow US libertarians using a computer (developed using state-funded research) running software (developed using state-funded research) to access the internet (developed using state-funded research).

If I'm wrong about the libertarian thing, I'll be surprised, as I can't see any other semi-logical reason you would completely disregard what is apparent to the rest of us. I still think it's a case of emotion over logic.

It does help to explain your earlier stuff in the thread. If you ideologically opposed to understanding that the boomers benefitted enormously from the state because of the post-war settlement which was in place at the time, it would indicate why you are blaming the younger generation for not doing as well.

Quoted from Maringer

Crypto investment, eh? A bit of gambling because crypto which isn't backed up by a nation state is fool's gold, though if you get in early enough, you can make some dosh. In fact, the likes of Bitcoin and subsequent attempts at crypto are actually very damaging due to the amount of energy wasted to mine them. You don't hear much about crypto-currencies in the news any longer as most people have realised they are a busted flush in the long term.

As you've decided that the perceived wisdom about economics is a load of guff (in spite of all the empirical evidence to the contrary), my guess is that you have drunk the libertarian 'kool-aid' so there is little point in continuing the discussion. Libertarianism (in the modern sense) is nonsense pushed, in general, by the wealthy right who simply don't want to pay their taxes and they don't care about what happens when the state is diminished. They can always remain in their closed communities and afford to have people to guard them and their own doctors to treat them. It's a deeply distasteful concept to me.

You don't get much of this libertarian guff in this country because generations have benefitted from the NHS and people, but for the most unhinged of Tories, believe the state can be run as a force of good as well as helping to provide the necessities of life. Not that you would know it from the way the Tories have behaved since 2010. I suppose you probably follow US libertarians using a computer (developed using state-funded research) running software (developed using state-funded research) to access the internet (developed using state-funded research).

If I'm wrong about the libertarian thing, I'll be surprised, as I can't see any other semi-logical reason you would completely disregard what is apparent to the rest of us. I still think it's a case of emotion over logic.

It does help to explain your earlier stuff in the thread. If you ideologically opposed to understanding that the boomers benefitted enormously from the state because of the post-war settlement which was in place at the time, it would indicate why you are blaming the younger generation for not doing as well.

In what context is this post (and the majority on this thread) related to GTFC or even football in general ???
FFS MODS do your job and move it. !!!

It's just a forum, mate. You don't need to read every single post, or get your knickers in a twist about somebody going a bit off-topic. When you get to page 13 of a thread, the chances of it remaining on-topic tend to be pretty slim.

If the mods want to set up a new thread in the non-footy forum, that's fine by me.