Only 20 mins till k.o. and the excitement & anticipation is now kicking in
Team is Cartwright, Efete, Rodgers, maher, Bramwell, Holohan, Hunt, Conteh, Eisa, Gnahoua, Pyke
subs Eastwood, waterfall, Andrews, Rose & Gardner
shame about all the injuries - can't see us learning a great deal from this evening, although will be interesting to see if Bramwell can show the same promise that he did in the previous game
Bradford have made 9 changes and daft as it seems I’m concerned there are too many key players in this side Number one priority is to get through with no injuries
These players need strong performances tonight. I doubt anyone really cares about the result. There’s a few I’d prefer to not be involved but if we are that short….
What have we learnt so far tonight :- Maher should not play at right back again. Hurst does not expect to use anyone but Michee at left back from now on this season. Our centre forward is completely isolated as per. Hunt can pass a ball but everything else passes him by When Halliday plays at right back Eisa may as well be sat in the stands (look back a few weeks to the away game as well) Bramwell looks like a decent prospect Cartwrights positioning leaves a little to be desired. How sad that when he brings Gardner on later, he will also be left isolated up front
Oops sorry I am supposed to say, wow were doing really well with so many injuries and we are about to see a tactical masterclass by Hursty. UTM
He’s a professional football player, I’m not . It was an easy finish. The keeper had left a gaping hole
Not so easy when you are pushed at the point of contact with the ball. Also, I have seen many, many pro footballers miss 'easy' one on ones with the keeper in all 4 Leagues.
Not so easy when you are pushed at the point of contact with the ball. Also, I have seen many, many pro footballers miss 'easy' one on ones with the keeper in all 4 Leagues.
Nunez at Liverpool needs 5 clear cut chances to score 1
Was it? Conteh and Maher lazy on the left letting the ball go past them, Eisa shitting himself at the prospect of contact and pulling out of a tackle and then Efete going to ground too early and getting sent to the shops by a dummy. The only good part about it was the finish which Cartwright couldn't have done anything about - the lead up to it was atrocious from town.
He’s a professional football player, I’m not . It was an easy finish. The keeper had left a gaping hole
The keeper did what he could. It was a great finish across the keeper. Both goals down to absolute excrement defending. No commitment from anyone for that second goal.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
I really wanted Holohan and Hunt to have good games more for them than us but this constant one decent thing (generous) one bad thing is perfect example of why they arent first choice.
I'm not sure what some people are expecting from the players. Do we expect them to throw their bodies on the line for an irrelevant tinpot match and crock themselves for months?
This fixture is virtually a friendly, and avoiding injuries is 100% the goal.
Even allowing for it being a M. Mouse competition and all the injuries, this is yet another very hard watch. So disjointed and lacking any sort of purpose. I mean, what the hell are we actually supposed to be trying to do? And I take back what I said about Pyke being not too bad first half, he's been excrement this one!
I'm not sure what some people are expecting from the players. Do we expect them to throw their bodies on the line for an irrelevant tinpot match and crock themselves for months?
This fixture is virtually a friendly, and avoiding injuries is 100% the goal.
No. Staking a claim for the first team should be the aim for 2/3rds of them. They've all done intercourse all to help themselves in that regard except maybe young Bramwell, who's done alright
I'm just curious how many goals Pyke has to score before he stops being hated.
The kids retraining as a striker and trying to find his confidence. He's played in league 1 as a wing back and clearly has talent. Got thrown in at the deep end after injuries up front. He's scored 2 in 2 games now, and still getting excrement. When you get written off for town, you sure get written off.
No matter what you score, there will be a fixation on the 1 miss.
I'm not sure what some people are expecting from the players. Do we expect them to throw their bodies on the line for an irrelevant tinpot match and crock themselves for months?
This fixture is virtually a friendly, and avoiding injuries is 100% the goal.
Stop being a prat, or would you just prefer the players to stand aside and let them take the urine
Stop being a pest, or would you just prefer the players to stand aside and let them take the urine
I'd rather we fielded our full under 18s team and took zero risk with this game.
If Pyke gets injured, Rose has no cover if he's struggling or takes a knock etc. Holahan injury would give us zero ability to change midfield. Any injury is probably going to create risk for our league campaign, and right now, the league is all I give a excrement about and starting to get points on the board after the tricky start to the season.
Maybe I care about our team doing well, more than personal pride...
I'm not sure what some people are expecting from the players. Do we expect them to throw their bodies on the line for an irrelevant tinpot match and crock themselves for months?
This fixture is virtually a friendly, and avoiding injuries is 100% the goal.
I don’t expect us to throw our bodies on the line but I expect a player with a jot of self esteem to win a 70/30 challenge.
Well ……..I still support town ….have done for 53 years now and yes it’s had its good times and bad times but that’s football. Fed up of all the crap some people put on here…..
Well ……..I still support town ….have done for 53 years now and yes it’s had its good times and bad times but that’s football. Fed up of all the crap some people put on here…..
Do you even know what support is?
You gotta abuse each player if they make 1 mistake. How else are they going to play better? I earnt that right to "cause i pay ma moneh each week"!
I know its a sh1te competition but I am not sure if were suffering from a lack of confidence or talent or both but that was ruddy awful again. Too many performances like tonight are racking up. Dont want to join all the hysterical ones that inhabit the board when we lose but something clearly isnt right at the moment.
What have we learnt so far tonight :- Maher should not play at right back again. Hurst does not expect to use anyone but Michee at left back from now on this season. Our centre forward is completely isolated as per. Hunt can pass a ball but everything else passes him by When Halliday plays at right back Eisa may as well be sat in the stands (look back a few weeks to the away game as well) Bramwell looks like a decent prospect Cartwrights positioning leaves a little to be desired. How sad that when he brings Gardner on later, he will also be left isolated up front
Oops sorry I am supposed to say, wow were doing really well with so many injuries and we are about to see a tactical masterclass by Hursty. UTM
My mistake he brings Gardner on as left winger and leaves our centre forward isolated as per Brings back 11 players for corners despite still losing with 10mins to go. Keep the red crosses coming as I know lots of you love watching shot football with shot tactics, tin pot trophy or not.
I'm sorry, I hate this comp in its current guise and the fact the EFL have sold their soul to the greed of the PL but whatever game town play in I expect some kind of performance. Another game at home where our keeper is the busier of the 2 teams. Hurst put out a relatively strong team there yet Bradford outfought, outplayed and outwitted us. At what point do say its not good enough?...we seem to be getting weaker and increasingly poor as each game passes. Somewhere the tactics, set up, information, are all wrong, and tonight I saw frustration creeping in with the players, first time it almost felt they lacked any kind of belief. I'm genuinely starting to worry that our confidence is getting shot to pieces and we'll struggle to turn it around. Oh, and Cartwright is genuinely not an upgrade on Battersby, not a chance the lad will break through and threaten Eastwood.
That was the most disgraceful performance I have seen since Ragarse Rovers lost 12 -0 to Nunny Infants. Not one player deserves to be called a footballer. How Hurst can pick a team for Saturday out of the FIT squad on the books I'll never know. I am totally embarrassed.
Biggest positive tonight, we're out of the competition.
Biggest positive tonight is that we are utterly and totally shite. We have had shite served up to us all season and now it is time for our owners to do something about it.
I thought we were boycotting this competition so it's OK for the fans not to turn up but then moan when the players don't.
It’s the general malaise that concerns me. Our form seems to fall down a hole at this time of every season. We have no discernible shape or formation and, seemingly, no leaders on the pitch.
I was genuinely enthused by most of our signings but we are genuinely getting worse.
That was the most disgraceful performance I have seen since Ragarse Rovers lost 12 -0 to Nunny Infants. Not one player deserves to be called a footballer. How Hurst can pick a team for Saturday out of the FIT squad on the books I'll never know. I am totally embarrassed.
Back in my day, players use to play 8 matches a week and still get drunk down the pub after.
If these pansies cannot get their leg broken Monday lunch and still be bothered to play by teatime, it's pathetic, and every staff member should be fired. Doris the tea lady also, because if she was good, her tea would have got 65 goals out of Pyke by now.
There are some incessant and irritating posters on here who are negative about everything and seem to want Town to lose so they get to moan and say I told you so.
But what’s even more irritating is the handful of holier than thou posters who won’t allow any form of criticism. Despite the fact we’re well into October and have managed 3 wins from 14 games. And generally look a bit crap.
There are some incessant and irritating posters on here who are negative about everything and seem to want Town to lose so they get to moan and say I told you so.
But what’s even more irritating is the handful of holier than thou posters who won’t allow any form of criticism. Despite the fact we’re well into October and have managed 3 wins from 14 games. And generally look a bit crap.
I still haven’t got a clue what our set up is . It’s dreadful to watch what ever it is .
There are some incessant and irritating posters on here who are negative about everything and seem to want Town to lose so they get to moan and say I told you so.
But what’s even more irritating is the handful of holier than thou posters who won’t allow any form of criticism. Despite the fact we’re well into October and have managed 3 wins from 14 games. And generally look a bit crap.
Well said. We’ve become a little bit 💩 and it’s a worry.
There are some incessant and irritating posters on here who are negative about everything and seem to want Town to lose so they get to moan and say I told you so.
But what’s even more irritating is the handful of holier than thou posters who won’t allow any form of criticism. Despite the fact we’re well into October and have managed 3 wins from 14 games. And generally look a bit crap.
I don't think folk mind constructive criticism, but usually the posts that get some response are usually in the format of:
"This is a problem, nothing gonna get fixed. Act now and sack Hurst." When you follow it like that, you negate the criticism, because the post is a crusade to fire a competent manager. Usually it's the same handful of posters.
I never used to bother posting here, but this sea of negativity pulls me in and someone gotta respond. You let that negativity sit in, then you jump on the managerial merry go round throwing money into compensation, and watch the club slide down the table year by year until you end up back in the conference. intercourse being back in the conference. I never want to see it again. I want to build, progress and rise up the leagues.
If you want to know how negative this place is, denni has 8 upvotes and 5 downvotes for sacking the manager. Wtf.
I couldn’t give two shites about the Pizza Cup but I saw Osadebe’s goal via Twitter tonight and can’t believe the lack of effort to try and prevent it. I’m rapidly losing interest in this season already.
I’m not advocating for Hurst to be sacked but like many others I find it difficult to identify the style of football we are trying to play and frustrated by our lack of attacking intensity in home matches.
I would also add that should Hurst go he is not an impossible act to follow as some posters imply. Changing Managers is always a risk but there are alaways a number of decent candidates available and they don’t have to be chosen from the so called “Managers Merry Go Round”. Did the Ipswich manager have any great pedigree before being appointed, or Plymouths ? even Lincoln’s is doing a decent job despite never being a Manager previously. A lot of good young coaches wanting to play attractive front foot football so should the board decide change is required at some time in the future than I would be hopeful that the new board would select PH’s replacement wisely.
Ah, I see, we played tonight, in a competition nobody cares about.
Who gives a flipping rats bottom whether we won 30-0 or lost 30-0. Tonight’s game was nothing more than a friendly. This complete over reaction to a defeat of any kind is tiring to be honest, even more so in a game that literally doesn’t matter…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
Ah, I see, we played tonight, in a competition nobody cares about.
Who gives a flipping rats bottom whether we won 30-0 or lost 30-0. Tonight’s game was nothing more than a friendly. This complete over reaction to a defeat of any kind is tiring to be honest, even more so in a game that literally doesn’t matter…
Doesn’t matter to me and my observations have nothing to do with tonight’s performance ( which I know nothing about other than the result as I’ve been out) but listening to Hurst’s after match interview on Humberside it is pretty evident our performance certainly mattered to him so it appears it was bit more than a friendly to him!
With people saying now is the time for change at the top, there are several good managers without a job at the moment, who could be tempted with a decent budget, BUT they would still have to work with all the underachieving players that we have turning out week on week. It looks like we need a Manager who has contacts further than his former teams, and who is a world away from Mr 'lets google to see who is without a team' Holloway
Playing devils advocate - must be hard to get motivated when playing in front of no-one, in a competition that, in reality..means nothing. Furthermore not wanting to get injured/risk injury..
That said..I watched tonight, and although will concede the result is largely irrelevant - it wasn’t great by any stretch of the imagination. Disappointing from a few, who seemed to be going through the motions..when individuals have a chance to get themselves back in consideration towards the ‘starting eleven’
I’m not overly convinced our squad is as good as some think, certainly have lots of room for improvement in many areas ..passing, concentration, even organisation. Not sure I’ve seen a Hurst side concede so many poor goals, very unlike his sides. Still think we look lethargic:leggy also - maybe that’s confidence etc but not sure we press as well as last season.
Not all doom and gloom..Bramwell more experience and the young striker got a few minutes.
Hope we can get a few back for Saturday, get the impression a couple think it’s 3 points in the bag because it’s Accrington..I suspect it’s going to be a battle to get the said 3 points. Be interesting to see what attendance is also..
Hurst looks very dejected in this interview. Says what some have said on here. Better quality players, but the overall package isn't there.
He's mentioned before about players maybe not taking information on, and wanted to change a few things more than he did. I think he's quite drunk off with a few players, and I think it may explain why he trusts some players and not others. I think he's sometimes dropping players to get them to kick on and improve on some issues. Hopefully they take it on board. He clearly has high standards, and I don't think he's going to stop with this until he see what he wants to see.
I think the ones we see on the bench on Saturday with either be carrying something and not at full fitness, or haven't done enough to fight their way into the team.
Playing devils advocate - must be hard to get motivated when playing in front of no-one, in a competition that, in reality..means nothing. Furthermore not wanting to get injured/risk injury..
That said..I watched tonight, and although will concede the result is largely irrelevant - it wasn’t great by any stretch of the imagination. Disappointing from a few, who seemed to be going through the motions..when individuals have a chance to get themselves back in consideration towards the ‘starting eleven’
I’m not overly convinced our squad is as good as some think, certainly have lots of room for improvement in many areas ..passing, concentration, even organisation. Not sure I’ve seen a Hurst side concede so many poor goals, very unlike his sides. Still think we look lethargic:leggy also - maybe that’s confidence etc but not sure we press as well as last season.
Not all doom and gloom..Bramwell more experience and the young striker got a few minutes.
Hope we can get a few back for Saturday, get the impression a couple think it’s 3 points in the bag because it’s Accrington..I suspect it’s going to be a battle to get the said 3 points. Be interesting to see what attendance is also..
Didn't seem to bother Bradford, who clearly wanted to win that game.
With people saying now is the time for change at the top, there are several good managers without a job at the moment, who could be tempted with a decent budget, BUT they would still have to work with all the underachieving players that we have turning out week on week. It looks like we need a Manager who has contacts further than his former teams, and who is a world away from Mr 'lets google to see who is without a team' Holloway
They’re all out of work for a reason…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
A few years ago I started the biggest campaign so far for this cup the be abolished from the moment Prem teams were allowed to enter it. I’d never watch a game that involved us in it, I don’t care a single bit about it.
However, despite all of this, I do care about the fact we continue to make a habit of playing poorly in it. We’ve put out a strong team last night and yet again our players have left the field having lost a football match, that cannot be good for anybody.
If Hurst says he’s struggling to get better players to do what he wants them to do, then I’m afraid that’s on him and it’s quite a concerning state of affairs.
Ah, I see, we played tonight, in a competition nobody cares about.
Who gives a flipping rats bottom whether we won 30-0 or lost 30-0. Tonight’s game was nothing more than a friendly. This complete over reaction to a defeat of any kind is tiring to be honest, even more so in a game that literally doesn’t matter…
Ordinarily I'd agree with your post but worryingly we had a lot of first teamers and squad players on the field who got run ragged.Surely this dead rubber should have been used in a more productive way? The defeat doesn't matter but the performance was abject. My biggest worry if it carries on and Hurst goes is the brains trust appoint Doig.
Ordinarily I'd agree with your post but worryingly we had a lot of first teamers and squad players on the field who got run ragged.Surely this dead rubber should have been used in a more productive way? The defeat doesn't matter but the performance was abject. My biggest worry if it carries on and Hurst goes is the brains trust appoint Doig.
There in lies the problem mate . I don’t think the new owners have the nerve to sack Hurst . Fear of picking the wrong manager will keep pH in a job for a long time
How many more games would you give Hurst to turn this around?
We seem to have several players who don’t appear to be giving their all and that’s never a good thing.
As many as it takes. Those managers people claim to be good yet never name are all out of work for a reason.
Perhaps players are taking longer to gel, perhaps injuries in key areas has done us but if there’s one thing fans and the club should’ve learned, or need to, is that swapping managers willynilly like previously has only ever hurt us. No coincidence that our most settled/successful period of the last 20 odd years has come when we’ve had a consistent manager.
Still, people want rid because he cupped his ear and apparently doesn’t make subs at the right time…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
As many as it takes. Those managers people claim to be good yet never name are all out of work for a reason.
Perhaps players are taking longer to gel, perhaps injuries in key areas has done us but if there’s one thing fans and the club should’ve learned, or need to, is that swapping managers willynilly like previously has only ever hurt us. No coincidence that our most settled/successful period of the last 20 odd years has come when we’ve had a consistent manager.
Still, people want rid because he cupped his ear and apparently doesn’t make subs at the right time…
No. I think most fans just want to see players of undoubted ability settling into a formation and winning football matches. To be honest, I think many of us have given up hope of being entertained.
Didnt watch last night and dont care about the competition but looked a strongish side and not ideal to lose again
Reading through the comments, looks a few saying a lack of effort from the players. When do they start saddling some of the blame? Isnt always on PH. If you don’t give 100% every time you step on the pitch, then thats on you as a player.
As long as we win saturday, thats all i care about
Not that this game meant anything to us and actually relieved we are out of this cup now. But a few things still bother me about last night.
A. What was the line up and team selection about. Yes we have injuries but playing a left side Maher at Right back, Efete uses his left foot to stand on yet was at Left back. Swap them over so they can use there natural foot. Then second half we bring on a tall young striker (Gardner) and put him left wing. The substitutions in general were strange.
B. Too often we got out-muscled by Bradford and there 2nd goal optimised that, especially the weak a$$ed tackle attempt by Eisa to put his foot through it. Pyke put in as little effort as possible and I've seen stronger biscuits in a cup of coffee.
C. When we were trailing why did we not push on more to try to get back in the game. The substitutions weakened us and we didn't change formation to get back in the game. For once I would like to see Hurst be positive and take the game to the opposition, especially at home.
Overall a frustrating night that confirms we have a competitive starting 11 but give the fringe players a run in the team and we have no strength in depth at all. Cartwright will never displace Eastwood, Hunt for me still needs masses of improvement and Pyke looks like he's a level or 2 below EFL standard.
One plus point for me, Jamie Bramwell looks like he's got a chance in the game. Played well especially in the 1st half, is a good size for his ago and looks one for the future
It happens in football. We thought we were getting good players but they have been disappointing its as simple as that. It could be the system, it could be the individuals not gelling it could be a whole host of things.
The thing is what are we going to do about it? Hurst must be able to get more out of these players, even if they are not as good as he and we hoped. That's his job and if he can't do it he will have to go. If we keep him, in January there will be another influx of players hoping he hits on a winning formula.
Those banging the drum for patience and supporting PH for what he's done .Fine However he has been Town Manager for best part of 10 years at consistently our lowest level .The games changed for sure but surely fans like myself who want to see us battling for at least league 1 status who have backed PH with back to back record ST sales deserve some hope of seeing that?
Losing last night is kind of irrelevant, it's the bigger picture that's the real problem. I couldn't be bothered to tune into the commentary, mainly because of the tournament and two reserve teams playing. However, its heading towards drudgery and the 2500 "new" fans will soon start to find better things to do if we're not careful. The excitement of the play offs and FA cup run need to be built on with some entertainment, particularly at home. The joy of winning must always outweigh the fear of losing
As many as it takes. Those managers people claim to be good yet never name are all out of work for a reason.
Perhaps players are taking longer to gel, perhaps injuries in key areas has done us but if there’s one thing fans and the club should’ve learned, or need to, is that swapping managers willynilly like previously has only ever hurt us. No coincidence that our most settled/successful period of the last 20 odd years has come when we’ve had a consistent manager.
Still, people want rid because he cupped his ear and apparently doesn’t make subs at the right time…
Not quite sure of your logic re out of work managers as that also applied to Hurst when he came back and just because a Manager fails at one club doesn’t mean he can’t be a success elsewhere. Interesting listening to PH’s You Tube interview as opposed to his RH one and he sounds much more concerned on the former and seems very frustrated that the players brought in don’t appear to have that “will to win” all managers want in their players and he appears to question there abilities to take on board instructions from the coaching team.
I would reiterate I am not advocating Hurst go at the present time but should these turgid displays continue up to and around the Christmas period I’m pretty sure I too will want change.
As many as it takes. Those managers people claim to be good yet never name are all out of work for a reason.
Perhaps players are taking longer to gel, perhaps injuries in key areas has done us but if there’s one thing fans and the club should’ve learned, or need to, is that swapping managers willynilly like previously has only ever hurt us. No coincidence that our most settled/successful period of the last 20 odd years has come when we’ve had a consistent manager.
Still, people want rid because he cupped his ear and apparently doesn’t make subs at the right time…
I think that's a really daft and dangerous position to hold. Sacking the manager isn't always the answer and very often managers are given nowhere near enough time. But we're a quarter of the way through the season and we seem to be worse now than we were at the start of September. Hurst himself has alluded to feeling let down by players etc and whilst I think the players are getting a bit of a free ride for some lacklustre performances and very basic errors, ultimately the buck stops with the manager. He is to blame for building a squad that has some glaring deficiencies (e.g a competent left back and anything like some pace or athleticism) and he's had plenty of time since signing most of them to work out an approach that suits the strengths of the squad and to get them playing this way. He is currently failing miserably on that front.
The idea that there is nobody out there, either in work or out of work, that could do better than Hurst is a nonsense. Hurst is a generally competent manager who historically has managed to put teams together that are greater than the sum of it's parts, albeit more often in a workman-like manner rather than in an entertaining fashion. But he isn't perfect, far from it. And if he's lost the ability to get the players to play for him and in the way that he tells them to then that's concerning.
I'm not advocating sacking Hurst at the minute. He should be given at least the rest of this month and probably into November to see if he can turn things around. But if we're still putting in performances like recently and we're languishing in 18th place or lower then serious questions need to be asked. The owners aren't stupid like our last non-chairman. They'll have an idea of who's available and will have plans in place for a number of contingencies. I'd trust them to find a decent replacement whereas we all know what happened with Fenty and his scattergun approach to managerial appointments. They'll also know that if we're struggling into November that any new manager would likely want at least a few weeks before the transfer window to see who he wants, who he doesn't and where he needs to get new players in.
Just carte-blanche giving Hurst "as long as it takes" is not the answer. Our own experience shows us he doesn't always get it right in time.
As many as it takes. Those managers people claim to be good yet never name are all out of work for a reason.
Perhaps players are taking longer to gel, perhaps injuries in key areas has done us but if there’s one thing fans and the club should’ve learned, or need to, is that swapping managers willynilly like previously has only ever hurt us. No coincidence that our most settled/successful period of the last 20 odd years has come when we’ve had a consistent manager.
Still, people want rid because he cupped his ear and apparently doesn’t make subs at the right time…
That's a minority of people that hold a grudge. But it looks like it's closer to 50/50 for keeping/sacking on here now based on the ticks and crosses each post gets. I don't think it's time to make the move yet, but it must be getting close. Last time they showed patience it paid off and we got promoted. It was complete luck and won't happen again in our lifetime, but Hurst gets the credit just as much as he does the responsibility for us underperforming now.
The biggest problem is that we have record ticket sales, an FA cup quarter final money and McAtee money yet we aren't much better than we've been with a fraction of that income. There's a lot more expectation because we should have a budget that allows us to be competitive. The start was difficult, but they're the teams we want to compete with, so we should still expect to be in an ok position and have more points than we do.
That's a minority of people that hold a grudge. But it looks like it's closer to 50/50 for keeping/sacking on here now based on the ticks and crosses each post gets. I don't think it's time to make the move yet, but it must be getting close. Last time they showed patience it paid off and we got promoted. It was complete luck and won't happen again in our lifetime, but Hurst gets the credit just as much as he does the responsibility for us underperforming now.
The biggest problem is that we have record ticket sales, an FA cup quarter final money and McAtee money yet we aren't much better than we've been with a fraction of that income. There's a lot more expectation because we should have a budget that allows us to be competitive. The start was difficult, but they're the teams we want to compete with, so we should still expect to be in an ok position and have more points than we do.
I think your point that we look no better on a bigger budget is a good one . It’s boring boring football and that is my problem. Under fenty the football was pretty much the same . It grinds you down tbh
Interesting listening to PH’s You Tube interview as opposed to his RH one and he sounds much more concerned on the former and seems very frustrated that the players brought in don’t appear to have that “will to win” all managers want in their players and he appears to question there abilities to take on board instructions from the coaching team.
“That’s how people go on to have good careers – they might not have quite as much ability but they’ve got all the other attributes [i.e. mental attributes – decision-making, etc.] that managers are looking for.”
In the club interview especially, Hurst made a load of references to the way in which our players think about the game on the pitch. He says that while the technical quality has increased, it is the overall package that needs to improve. In other words, we might have a better, more talented group of players but we do not yet have a better team. I totally agree with this.
Apart from a couple of obvious ones, our promotion-winning side, for example, was a far less talented group of players but they were a much better team. There was a clear system and every player knew their and their teammates’ roles and usually seemed to make the correct decisions in-game. That doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.
Nobody gave Fenty more grief than I did but he had got in a cross section of managers from big names ex managers and tge young ambitious types.They came from far and wide so thus perception you can't attract people to GTFC is clearly a load of bollox.
Some good points raised here For the first time in ages me and my mate were sort of 'taking the urine' about the performance v Barrow Same movie - almost every game - we seem to play with shackles on Things I'm sick of...
Players making good runs down the wing only to nearly always stop, turn back and then go again along the back line; why can't they/won't they keep bombing on?
One up top - can't see what it achieves; we are paying a heavy price for not signing a target man (even the great passing teams of Buckley had a genuine target man)
Steve Croudson with his 'flip chart' bellowing instructions to players on how to defend and who to watch at set pieces; FFS - can't the players sort that out? Do they need coaching to the nth degree?
Having a team by the throat (eg: Crawley and 2-0 up) and still playing it 'softly/softly' allowing opposition back into the game
Playing it out from the back and still going long; what's the point?
Players playing out of position and/or tweaking the team for the sake of it - it's so much harder for the team to gel. I know injuries have played their part but pick a system and pick your best XI week in/week out where possible
It's becoming more and more like 'chess on grass' - not very entertaining; most fans would much rather us play open and attractive footy and risk being caught out a few times
When was the last time we went away from BP really excited by a great attacking performance in the league? FA Cup style last year is what we should strive for each week!
One thing I would say about the EFL mickey mouse comp - amazing how many of the teams who are going well in L1 and L2 seem to get good results each time they play
Success breeds success
Hurst is a naturally 'defensive-minded' coach/manager and to a point it has served him and us well - but after summer budget increase, 2/3 year contracts for some signings/players, statement signings like Conteh then fans deserve better and that starts with more attacking football
I have always believed that you build up your team/squad pre-season and then find a system to suit them. My worry is that Hurst imposes a system and then expects the players to fit it.
It is difficult to reach firm conclusions about how we are performing. The evidence is very contradictory. The season is still settling down.
We easily beat league leaders Gillingham. We were in control at Bradford in the first half. We should have been 3 or 4 nil up against Crawley.
We had to manage with changing 3 of the back 4 in a recent game. Maher, our best defender, has been out for a few games. Our top 2 scoring strikers have both been out injured (and at the same time). Rose has been out longer.
The many negatives have been well documented and discussed. For me, these are encapsulated by the poor play against Barrow. They were much better than us at the basics.
Maybe we were spoilt last season with the cup run, being back in the EFL and increased STH holders. Expectations have been raised. We also have a bigger budget. The delivery of any improvements on the pitch is hard to see.
As many as it takes. Those managers people claim to be good yet never name are all out of work for a reason.
Perhaps players are taking longer to gel, perhaps injuries in key areas has done us but if there’s one thing fans and the club should’ve learned, or need to, is that swapping managers willynilly like previously has only ever hurt us. No coincidence that our most settled/successful period of the last 20 odd years has come when we’ve had a consistent manager.
Still, people want rid because he cupped his ear and apparently doesn’t make subs at the right time…
Wasn't Paul Hurst out of a job when we employed him this second time?
Ordinarily I'd agree with your post but worryingly we had a lot of first teamers and squad players on the field who got run ragged.Surely this dead rubber should have been used in a more productive way? The defeat doesn't matter but the performance was abject. My biggest worry if it carries on and Hurst goes is the brains trust appoint Doig.
It was a pointless game and there were more on the bench than in the Pontoon. PH has been here before, so he knew if he played the Tea Lady, Groundsman, and an office boy nobody would have moned and indeed would have applauded him as he has some injuries. And yet we played some 1st Teamers when we need them for the Acc Stanley match and 3 points. Just another poor judgment call to add to the list of.
It was a pointless game and there were more on the bench than in the Pontoon. PH has been here before, so he knew if he played the Tea Lady, Groundsman, and an office boy nobody would have moned and indeed would have applauded him as he has some injuries. And yet we played some 1st Teamers when we need them for the Acc Stanley match and 3 points. Just another poor judgment call to add to the list of.
Good shout. Had we lost 2-1 with a mixture of 1st team and youth no one would have batted an eyelid. Given the team selected, it was a risk and added more fuel to a more established fire.
Pehaps we should have player our best Right Back as a Left Back, a player who spent most of last season playing Left Back at Center Back, and our best Center Back as Right Back.............
.........Oh bu99er we did !
If the football is bad you can always watch the gulls.
Some good points raised here For the first time in ages me and my mate were sort of 'taking the urine' about the performance v Barrow Same movie - almost every game - we seem to play with shackles on Things I'm sick of...
Players making good runs down the wing only to nearly always stop, turn back and then go again along the back line; why can't they/won't they keep bombing on?
One up top - can't see what it achieves; we are paying a heavy price for not signing a target man (even the great passing teams of Buckley had a genuine target man)
Steve Croudson with his 'flip chart' bellowing instructions to players on how to defend and who to watch at set pieces; FFS - can't the players sort that out? Do they need coaching to the nth degree?
Having a team by the throat (eg: Crawley and 2-0 up) and still playing it 'softly/softly' allowing opposition back into the game
Playing it out from the back and still going long; what's the point?
Players playing out of position and/or tweaking the team for the sake of it - it's so much harder for the team to gel. I know injuries have played their part but pick a system and pick your best XI week in/week out where possible
It's becoming more and more like 'chess on grass' - not very entertaining; most fans would much rather us play open and attractive footy and risk being caught out a few times
When was the last time we went away from BP really excited by a great attacking performance in the league? FA Cup style last year is what we should strive for each week!
One thing I would say about the EFL mickey mouse comp - amazing how many of the teams who are going well in L1 and L2 seem to get good results each time they play
Success breeds success
Hurst is a naturally 'defensive-minded' coach/manager and to a point it has served him and us well - but after summer budget increase, 2/3 year contracts for some signings/players, statement signings like Conteh then fans deserve better and that starts with more attacking football
The vast bulk of your post and frustrations I'm in near complete agreement with you. But Rose is probably as effective and good a target man as we've had for many, many a year. The problem is that he's completely isolated. Rose's a quality footballer who I'm very confident could play the No 9 or the No 10 role to equally effective levels.
With the exception of Saturday, he's had to play both roles at the same time.
It's entirely possible to not be frothing at the mouth to want Hurst sacked yet be disappointed and upset with how things are going, indeed vocalising that too.
I find it a bit tiresome this constant divide of so called Happy Clappers and those that want to march Hurst out of the town. Are we really so robotic in our opinions that it can only be one or the other?
I like Hurst and I think he's a good fit for us, as we are for him. But this season is rapidly in danger of becoming a huge disappointment. I tuned in for the second half of the Bradford game and it was utterly woeful. Yes, it's a competition we all hate and without doubt it's a competition that I think we're all probably glad we're out of. But that performance was one of a team who had just met 10 minutes before kick-off, had gone out with no instruction and didn't really care about the outcome.
I do agree that it must be harder to motivate yourself for some of these games, especially a dead rubber like this. Equally so I don't think there's a single player in our squad who will go out there and not give everything. Added to that it would be the most un-Paul Hurst thing ever to send his team out without specific instruction.
Yet something isn't adding up. There was (and if we're going to honest, it isn't something new) a complete lack of an identify to our play. It's just random, 11 guys out there in positions and we're hoping something comes off.
At the absolute heart of my frustration is that we had this style of play in pre-season and the first few games, yet we then ditched it. I got on board with that style of play, it was something I really felt I would enjoy this season and at the first opportunity it's gone. We've brought in players to play that specific system. Conteh, just one example, is absolutely wasted as simply a screener of the back-four. He was brought in because of how he controls play, draws others in, creates space, recycles the ball in a pro-active manner, a whole range of attributes to his game that help us play in a certain style of play. I would rather we didn't bother bringing in those type players if we're just going to end up reverting to type.
On another thread I've sympathised with the injuries to key players that are key to this system. But it's far too naïve to expect that players don't get injured or lose form. But you can't just abandon your system at the first hurdle.
The vast bulk of your post and frustrations I'm in near complete agreement with you. But Rose is probably as effective and good a target man as we've had for many, many a year. The problem is that he's completely isolated. Rose's a quality footballer who I'm very confident could play the No 9 or the No 10 role to equally effective levels.
With the exception of Saturday, he's had to play both roles at the same time.
Good point about Rose - he's top notch at this level
It's entirely possible to not be frothing at the mouth to want Hurst sacked yet be disappointed and upset with how things are going, indeed vocalising that too.
I find it a bit tiresome this constant divide of so called Happy Clappers and those that want to march Hurst out of the town. Are we really so robotic in our opinions that it can only be one or the other?
I like Hurst and I think he's a good fit for us, as we are for him. But this season is rapidly in danger of becoming a huge disappointment. I tuned in for the second half of the Bradford game and it was utterly woeful. Yes, it's a competition we all hate and without doubt it's a competition that I think we're all probably glad we're out of. But that performance was one of a team who had just met 10 minutes before kick-off, had gone out no instruction and didn't really care about the outcome.
I do agree that it must be harder to motivate yourself for some of these games, especially a dead rubber like this. Equally so I don't think there's a single player in our squad who will go out there and not give everything. Added to that it would be the most un-Paul Hurst thing ever to send his team out without specific instruction.
Yet something isn't adding up. There was (and if we're going to honest, it isn't something new) a complete lack of an identify to our play. It's just random, 11 guys out there in positions and we're hoping something comes off.
At the absolute heart of my frustration is that we had this style of play in pre-season and the first few games and yet we then ditched it. I got on board with that style of play, it was something I really felt I would enjoy this season and at the first opportunity it's gone. We've brought in players to play that specific system. Conteh, just one example, is absolutely wasted as simply a screener of the back-four. He was brought in because of how he controls play, draws others in, creates space, recycles the ball in a pro-active manner, a whole range of attributes to his game that help us play in a certain style of play. I would rather we didn't bother bringing in those type players if we're just going to end up reverting to type.
On another thread I've sympathised with the injuries to key players that are key to this system. But it's far too naïve to expect that players don't get injured or lose form. But you can't just abandon your system at the first hurdle.
Excellent summing up - especially Conteh, who seems capable of offering so much more than basic screening/linking
Good point about Rose - he's top notch at this level
Rose was the focal point of a very good Stevenage side last year and he must so frustrated that he's not getting enough supporting players near him.
This is what I find most frustrating - we clearly scouted him, we know his strengths and yet we can't make the most of them. It would appear that Eisa, Gnahoua, Pyke and Wilson can all play the 10 role, they all haven't been injured at the same time. Making us more defensively sound clearly isn't the answer, we're shipping goals for fun and would have shipped a load more in the Barrow game had they had their shooting boots on.
Rose was the focal point of a very good Stevenage side last year and he must so frustrated that he's not getting enough supporting players near him.
This is what I find most frustrating - we clearly scouted him, we know his strengths and yet we can't make the most of them. It would appear that Eisa, Gnahoua, Pyke and Wilson can all play the 10 role, they all haven't been injured at the same time. Making us more defensively sound clearly isn't the answer, we're shipping goals for fun and would have shipped a load more in the Barrow game had they had their shooting boots on.
He scored 6 league goals for Stevenage last season, and already has 4 for us, so he and we are doing something right.
To be fair Eisa was completely anonymous in that No 10 role for the first few games of the season.
Only seen Gnahoua and Pyke either wide or as the main striker and seen such little of Wilson it's hard to judge, although those bits he looks more like someone who wants to be on the shoulder of the last defender and using his pace.
I do think there's a huge void of someone effectively slotting in between the attack and midfield, it's something we've lacked since McAtee's first season. His second season he was asked to play a different role until the arrival of George Lloyd allowed him to drop deeper.
Eisa, Holohan, Clifton and Hunt have all been asked to play at the tip of a 3-man midfield yet none have either consistently succeeded or had sufficient time to settle into that role and then succeed. As said wasn't impressed with Eisa in that role, I think Holohan and Clifton are good at buzzing about but technically don't think got the attributes to put the bits together, also they're more effective playing a bit deeper. That leaves Hunt who he just doesn't fancy. Gnahoua's probably not the worst shout I've seen to be honest.
I think if you've got a 9 and a 10 in the team you can get away with a bit of a deeper midfielder and even wingers not sitting higher up the pitch. But if you haven't got a 10, someone like McAtee who links midfield and attack, then you've got to have really high wingers otherwise your lone striker is completely isolated. It's so easy to defend against. One in front and one behind, even if the striker wins the first ball they've no chance of getting the second. The best strikers in the world don't get on the end of their own flick-ons.
I might have missed it but is there any news on how long Wilson is out for? If he's fit you kinda hope that he and Rose could be the pairing.
The vast bulk of your post and frustrations I'm in near complete agreement with you. But Rose is probably as effective and good a target man as we've had for many, many a year.
He's done particularly well to score as many goals as he has given the lack of bodies around him and the fact he's fighting a lone battle much of the time.
I do think what we're lacking is a 'big man' alternative to come off the bench for those games where Rose can't get any traction against the opposition defence. Some (many?) referees at this level are happy for smaller forwards to be shoved around with impunity by big defenders and having a more substantial option to bring on to help counter this would be useful. As Acquah showed for Barrow, a 'big man' up front doesn't have to be nothing but headers and hustle-and-bustle. A real shame that we don't have somebody like him to stick on the bench.
Gnahoua does look after the ball extremely well and you rarely see him lose possession. If we wanted to try somebody as a No. 10, he could well be worth a go. That said, some players can work very effectively in the limited amount of space offered them by the touchline, but can be lost when they move infield where they have defenders incoming from all sides.
It's entirely possible to not be frothing at the mouth to want Hurst sacked yet be disappointed and upset with how things are going, indeed vocalising that too.
I find it a bit tiresome this constant divide of so called Happy Clappers and those that want to march Hurst out of the town. Are we really so robotic in our opinions that it can only be one or the other?
I like Hurst and I think he's a good fit for us, as we are for him. But this season is rapidly in danger of becoming a huge disappointment. I tuned in for the second half of the Bradford game and it was utterly woeful. Yes, it's a competition we all hate and without doubt it's a competition that I think we're all probably glad we're out of. But that performance was one of a team who had just met 10 minutes before kick-off, had gone out with no instruction and didn't really care about the outcome.
I do agree that it must be harder to motivate yourself for some of these games, especially a dead rubber like this. Equally so I don't think there's a single player in our squad who will go out there and not give everything. Added to that it would be the most un-Paul Hurst thing ever to send his team out without specific instruction.
Yet something isn't adding up. There was (and if we're going to honest, it isn't something new) a complete lack of an identify to our play. It's just random, 11 guys out there in positions and we're hoping something comes off.
At the absolute heart of my frustration is that we had this style of play in pre-season and the first few games, yet we then ditched it. I got on board with that style of play, it was something I really felt I would enjoy this season and at the first opportunity it's gone. We've brought in players to play that specific system. Conteh, just one example, is absolutely wasted as simply a screener of the back-four. He was brought in because of how he controls play, draws others in, creates space, recycles the ball in a pro-active manner, a whole range of attributes to his game that help us play in a certain style of play. I would rather we didn't bother bringing in those type players if we're just going to end up reverting to type.
On another thread I've sympathised with the injuries to key players that are key to this system. But it's far too naïve to expect that players don't get injured or lose form. But you can't just abandon your system at the first hurdle.
Splendid post which prised a gold star from tight-fisted me.
The only thing I would add is that having hugely disappointing seasons is part and parcel of being a football fan. No doubt Manchester City fans will be disappointed if they don't win the Premiership this season, and Southampton fans have had five disappointing seasons in the Prem, and may be about to have another in the Championship.
It's understandable if fans want to moan about it - but it's a bit absurd (to my way of thinking at any rate) to be having tantrums and calling for the manager to be sacked (usually without a clear idea of who we can replace him with that would be any better). I feel Town fans could be a bit more stoic, and take any disappointment on the chin given the last two seasons we've had under PH.
It's not a disappointing season yet anyway, more of an underwhelming start...though that's partly due to the higher expectations Paul Hurst has helped generate by performing wonders.
Pehaps we should have player our best Right Back as a Left Back, a player who spent most of last season playing Left Back at Center Back, and our best Center Back as Right Back.............
.........Oh bu99er we did !
Don't you stop a minute and think WHY he played those players in those positions. I don't know why, but I would hazzard a guess that PH had a genuine reason for doing that. I doubt very much that he did it for a laugh.
Pehaps we should have player our best Right Back as a Left Back, a player who spent most of last season playing Left Back at Center Back, and our best Center Back as Right Back.............
Splendid post which prised a gold star from tight-fisted me.
The only thing I would add is that having hugely disappointing seasons is part and parcel of being a football fan. No doubt Manchester City fans will be disappointed if they don't win the Premiership this season, and Southampton fans have had five disappointing seasons in the Prem, and may be about to have another in the Championship.
It's understandable if fans want to moan about it - but it's a bit absurd (to my way of thinking at any rate) to be having tantrums and calling for the manager to be sacked (usually without a clear idea of who we can replace him with that would be any better). I feel Town fans could be a bit more stoic, and take any disappointment on the chin given the last two seasons we've had under PH.
It's not a disappointing season yet anyway, more of an underwhelming start...though that's partly due to the higher expectations Paul Hurst has helped generate by performing wonders.
Read your post and username so wondering if you've managed to get to any of the recent games? If you haven't pretty much our entire fanbase have been flat and deflated since the Gillingham game Some might say Hurst bashing but who but he can currently do anything about sorting thi ngs? I was full of optimism before the Season started really fancied us to go well but thought we just needed a target man or goalscorer adding.Now looking at PH we need a LB,CB ,GK a couple of wide players and still the alternative frontman? It's truly baffling personally I think he has the right players but he's putting square pegs in round holes and I've never seen his sides concede so many poor goals.The fans are flat tge players are flat and finally Hurst hi.self looks flat something is not right?
Read your post and username so wondering if you've managed to get to any of the recent games? If you haven't pretty much our entire fanbase have been flat and deflated since the Gillingham game Some might say Hurst bashing but who but he can currently do anything about sorting thi ngs? I was full of optimism before the Season started really fancied us to go well but thought we just needed a target man or goalscorer adding.Now looking at PH we need a LB,CB ,GK a couple of wide players and still the alternative frontman? It's truly baffling personally I think he has the right players but he's putting square pegs in round holes and I've never seen his sides concede so many poor goals.The fans are flat tge players are flat and finally Hurst hi.self looks flat something is not right?
I reckon Hurst knows he has dropped a bollock.
Today he said something like about looking at himself and indicated it would take more time for the group of players to gel. No doubt January can't come quick enough and I just get the impression he is disappointed in the players he has brought in.
As always it is about blend; we are so short of things that matter including quick incisive passing, pace and power, striking options, creative midfield players besides some players under achieving.
I don't blame the manager in the sense he thought he was getting better players and it just hasn't clicked. Nobody knows till they are in the building and you work with them.
What the manager and coaching staff don't seem to be good at is settling on a way of playing to make it easier for players to settle and understand team mates and the system.
Today he said something like about looking at himself and indicated it would take more time for the group of players to gel. No doubt January can't come quick enough and I just get the impression he is disappointed in the players he has brought in.
As always it is about blend; we are so short of things that matter including quick incisive passing, pace and power, striking options, creative midfield players besides some players under achieving.
I don't blame the manager in the sense he thought he was getting better players and it just hasn't clicked. Nobody knows till they are in the building and you work with them.
What the manager and coaching staff don't seem to be good at is settling on a way of playing to make it easier for players to settle and understand team mates and the system.
Which begs the question: does the board have the justification in looking for a manager who could gel what looks like a talented squad?
Both the board and the manager went big on how important the head of recruitment was but did we recruit who we really wanted and did we assess their ability to get on with the existing squad?
There’s been a really sensible and serious discussion on here in recent days. Clearly several of us have differing opinions about where this should go but the gravity of the conversation shows a real concern.
Read your post and username so wondering if you've managed to get to any of the recent games? If you haven't pretty much our entire fanbase have been flat and deflated since the Gillingham game Some might say Hurst bashing but who but he can currently do anything about sorting thi ngs? I was full of optimism before the Season started really fancied us to go well but thought we just needed a target man or goalscorer adding.Now looking at PH we need a LB,CB ,GK a couple of wide players and still the alternative frontman? It's truly baffling personally I think he has the right players but he's putting square pegs in round holes and I've never seen his sides concede so many poor goals.The fans are flat tge players are flat and finally Hurst hi.self looks flat something is not right?
I'm on the other side of the planet mate, so I've no real prospect of affordably visiting BP.
I get that the side are performing woefully at home, which disappoints the fans (and no doubt the manager and board too). There have been times in the past when I've felt going to BP has been a duty rather than anticipated enjoyment, so I understand the "flat" feeling you mention very well.
I don't see us in danger of relegation, so if Paul can't sort things out by the end of the season it is then reasonable to have the discussion about a new manager.
That said, I like him as a manager and his strengths are a good fit for the club IMO. All managers have weaknesses. Which brings me back to the question: "Who would you replace him with who's currently available?".
I made this point recently, and Poojah posted a list of possible names. Out of his list, the only name which held much appeal to me was Darrell Clarke (now at Cheltenham). TBH I had to 'Wiki-research' most of them - but no-one stood out. So who would you have now?
I just feel that after an unbelievable promotion, followed by an unbelievable FA Cup quarter-final, PH deserves the January window to sort things out.
Kevin McDonald (current Bradford player) 5/4 Neil Redfearn 7/2 Leam Richardson 6/1 Pete Wild 12/1 Karl Robinson 12/1 Danny Cowley 12/1 Steve Thompson 12/1 Nathan Jones 16/1 Neil Warnock 16/1
We can forget the last two.
Steve Thompson and Neil Redfearn have resigned as the caretaker management duo at Oldham ahead of an expected new managerial appointment. So not considered good enough for the National League side.
I don't see any of Pete Wild, Karl Robinson and Danny Cowley as likely to offer more entertaining football.
Which leaves Leam Richardson as the only plausible candidate in my view...unless either Bradford or Oldham appoint him.
Of course we're not restricted to the Bradford betting list, but managers who get points playing an attractive style of football are not plentiful.
But as I mentioned in the previous post - I don't think we should be considering this at all at the present time.
Kevin McDonald (current Bradford player) 5/4 Neil Redfearn 7/2 Leam Richardson 6/1 Pete Wild 12/1 Karl Robinson 12/1 Danny Cowley 12/1 Steve Thompson 12/1 Nathan Jones 16/1 Neil Warnock 16/1
We can forget the last two.
Steve Thompson and Neil Redfearn have resigned as the caretaker management duo at Oldham ahead of an expected new managerial appointment. So not considered good enough for the National League side.
I don't see any of Pete Wild, Karl Robinson and Danny Cowley as likely to offer more entertaining football.
Which leaves Leam Richardson as the only plausible candidate in my view...unless either Bradford or Oldham appoint him.
Of course we're not restricted to the Bradford betting list, but managers who get points playing an attractive style of football are not plentiful.
But as I mentioned in the previous post - I don't think we should be considering this at all at the present time.
When the time comes there will be a queue of forward thinking ambitious young and not so young managers eager to take on the job. Even under Fenty we had good names, but most quickly got disillusioned, but with these owners it would be a dream job for an ambitious manager.
All conjecture as we know the owners see PH as a vital part of their project and it would take a cataclysmic decline in our fortunes for them to let him go.
Just a point on the above..(I know it won’t happen and I’m not advocating that Hurst goes btw) - but Pete Wild brought a team to BP a week or so back and their football was far better than we’ve produced..
My other point ..or question…how long is the ‘he got us to an FA Cup quarter final’ line allowed to be used as a retort ? That was then…football is about the here and now..genuine question I’ve asked before but if we’re lingering in 17th or thereabouts coming up to Christmas..surely alarm bells should be starting to ring?? (Hypothetical I know)
Again I’m not saying Hurst out by any means - but those thinking otherwise have valid concerns..as expressed on this thread - and not all those come into the bracket certain posters describe them as.
Just a point on the above..(I know it won’t happen and I’m not advocating that Hurst goes btw) - but Pete Wild brought a team to BP a week or so back and their football was far better than we’ve produced..
My other point ..or question…how long is the ‘he got us to an FA Cup quarter final’ line allowed to be used as a retort ? That was then…football is about the here and now..genuine question I’ve asked before but if we’re lingering in 17th or thereabouts coming up to Christmas..surely alarm bells should be starting to ring?? (Hypothetical I know)
Again I’m not saying Hurst out by any means - but those thinking otherwise have valid concerns..as expressed on this thread - and not all those come into the bracket certain posters describe them as.
I understand what you're saying, but look at it this way: we've just had two incredible seasons with PH at the helm, and now - as soon as things get sticky - he gets his P45 (hypothetically - it's not going to happen btw). With that on the club's CV we're going to find it difficult to recruit quality management surely?
GTFC - a club that's loyal to its manager provided he produces incredible seasons every season. Tough gig, that one.
The earlier post pointing out that there'll be a stream of young hopeful managers for any Town vacancy is correct, and that scares me. We're more likely to get relegated with a keen, ambitious young manager cutting his teeth in L2 (and potentially finding it too difficult) than we are with Paul Hurst. Our owners claim no great wisdom in footballing matters, but it would fall on them to find the next incumbent.
The flip side is that Hurst won't be out of a job for very long unless he wants to be.
"Be careful what you wish for" would be my advice to those fans wanting a new manager.
The Japanese version is: "Whom the Gods seek to punish, they make their dreams come true".
Agree with Jase, especially on Pete Wild. Long thought he's a decent manager, operates well above his means and I thought his Barrow side were heads and shoulders above us. In the highly unlikely that Hurst walked/is sacked today, Wild would be one name I would want to be at the top of the list. Equally so I would hope that we would be as proactive in headhunting someone as opposed to just waiting for the usual merry-go-round losers to apply.
I think right now at this moment in time, Hurst is fortunate that this summer saw very good season ticket sales. Because if we were reliant on match-by-match purchases the attendances would be shocking, only getting worse as we go into winter.
Of course there's the argument that what he's been part of in the last two years is the reason sales were so high. But in the absence of a cup run this season and if we end up with another flat and uninspiring mid-season finish, I don't think he'll have that safety net next summer.
Times are hard, committing to a single ticket is a lot for folk. Never mind a season ticket. If people aren't enjoying it, they'll simply stop going.
I absolutely get the 'careful what you wish for' line. We've been burnt before. Universally the appointment of Marcus Bignot seemed exciting, especially after Hurst's pragmatic approach. We all got sucked in by Holloway's charm too. The grass definitely isn't always greener. But if our reason for not progressing is because Hurst is a safe hands then we need to reevaluate the ethos of the club regards continuous improvement.
People talk about how long can PH dine out on promotions, fa cup runs and the clubs best league position in god knows how long, like they didn’t happen LITERALLY the season before and the one before that.
Also, how come it’s ok for Pete Wild to have a team that plays great but ultimately loses, but when that happens to us it’s still Hurst out??
Would Wild come to us? The bigger club thing doesn’t work anymore because owner resources are what counts rather than extra clicks at the turnstiles. Our reputation as a club has been enhanced by the current owners but to the wider football world we still look like a club that’s been yo-yoing between mid / lower L2 and NL for years.
But that's not what you said is it? Nor is it what I said.
Cup games aside, I can't remember when we last played 'great'. Maybe Crewe away when McAtee and Lloyd destroyed a very, very poor side?
If we were playing great and still losing then I think the argument against anyone wanting Hurst out would be stronger. It's getting harder and harder to argue against it though when we're 18th in the table, more or less the same points from the play-offs to the relegation spots (which was the theme of last season) and bloody awful to watch.
I think we've played well and not come away with a win on a fair few occasions this season, but each to their own.
And yes, you're right i have absolutely never heard anyone say they want Hurst out.
I think we played pretty well in the first couple of games and again against Mansfield at home. Beyond that, we've played ok in parts of games.
Regarding Hurst, I think the debate is how long is his free pass for promotion and the Cup run. Given his recent comments about attitude and mentality, I'm wondering if the coaching team are pushing one or two a little too hard.
Wild has done a good job at Barrow but he hasn't done it on a total shoestring.
Also worth pointing out that Barrow finished a whole point above us last season and are a whole two points ahead of us this season.
Barrow went up to the EFL in the truncated covid season, and then went on a mental hiring and firing spree with 7 managers since Evatt got them promoted.
They are pretty well funded and Wild inherited an established league 2 side, unlike Hurst, but he's hardly set the world alight as your post points out.
They have changed managers constantly and it hasn't yet worked for them, and Wild looks to have stabilised the ship for them, but let's not pretend he's done anything radical just yet.
They are further along in their league 2 development than we are is the difference to my mind.
Wild has been in charge of Barrow as a League Two side a matter of days more than Hurst with us (post promotion).
For the established League Two side that he inherited, post Evatt it's not a pretty picture at all. David Dunn and Jolley had awful records, it was only that Rob Kelly steadied the ship (plus the fact we and Southend were so urine poor) that they survived the drop in 2021.
Whist we were in the Conference Mark Cooper and Phil Brown made collective pigs ears of it, finishing 3rd bottom with only basketcase Oldham and Scunny keeping them out the bottom two. There's only a handful of players that Wild has stuck with since; Farman, Gotts, White, Canavan and a few others. I'm not sure if they are further along in their development at this level than us, or should I say if they should be. If they are, isn't the question about why are they?
I honestly don't know how well they're funded. But he took them from finishing 21st and 22nd to 9th in his first season. Added to that he did a bloody good job at Halifax (and Oldham too before he was unfairly moved on). The world isn't alight, but I think the point made is that there are good managers out there.
I've no dispute that Wild is a good manager, he's proved that, and I would be happy to have him here should we be looking, but he's not massively ahead of PH, either last season or this, is my point, and the point also made by Rodley.
Hurst entered leaguel 2 last season with very little prep after our unexpected promotion and did well considering, but Wild started with an already established league 2 side, albeit one that was underperforming. I think he had a slight advantage but only finished one point higher than ourselves.
His side played some good and impressive stuff at BP, but didn't get the job done, a bit like us in so many games. Do they play that well every week? We don't know do we?
Barrow have had a much easier start to the season than ourselves and it will be interesting to see where we are both at come the middle of the season.
All academic really, as PH will be here for the foreseeable whether the fans like it or not.
Yep, we don't know how well they play each week or their budget. I think there's a fair comparison in the isolated nature of both sides mind.
I'm loathe to compare the two and even go down the path of 'if Wild was here...', I think the original point from Jase and certainly from myself was that whilst there is that risk of getting someone excrement in, there are also good options available too should we need them. Our recruitment for 20 years was done by John Fenty, his many failures shouldn't be a reason to never think we'll get better.
Either way, you're right. Hurst isn't walking or getting sacked. Fingers crossed for a resounding victory tomorrow to spark a long winning run and all Hurst talk is muted.
Yep, we don't know how well they play each week or their budget. I think there's a fair comparison in the isolated nature of both sides mind.
I'm loathe to compare the two and even go down the path of 'if Wild was here...', I think the original point from Jase and certainly from myself was that whilst there is that risk of getting someone excrement in, there are also good options available too should we need them. Our recruitment for 20 years was done by John Fenty, his many failures shouldn't be a reason to never think we'll get better.
Either way, you're right. Hurst isn't walking or getting sacked. Fingers crossed for a resounding victory tomorrow to spark a long winning run and all Hurst talk is muted.
Why should Hurst talk be muted? I was following you and Ginnywings comparing Town and Barrow. The point being what? The players are different, the squad could be in essence much better than our squad, worse than our squad, be more or less expensive (which we do not know). You are comparing apples to pears. The real question is, is Hurst getting the best out of what he bought? If it's yes, then we need better. If it's no, then what's he doing about it? We have 14/36 7 above the drop and 6 from playoffs and 8 from auto promo. Some people on this site think Saint Paul can walk on water, others wanted him out the first time he was hired with his gobby mate, and can't abide him whatever he does. The vast majority want the team steaming up the table entertaining or ugly but at the right end of the table, with Hurst or if we are in deep poo, without him. If anyone is clever enough to organise a Hurst Stay, Hurst Go, Hurst Must Do Better count then try that. Until then the "Hurst talk" carries on I' afraid.
Fingers crossed for a resounding victory tomorrow to spark a long winning run and all Hurst talk is muted.
Hopefully the bit in bold answers your opening question.
I'm all for open debate and fair criticism, but if we go on a massive winning run I think even his biggest critics would struggle to legitimately go in on him.
Why should Hurst talk be muted? I was following you and Ginnywings comparing Town and Barrow. The point being what? The players are different, the squad could be in essence much better than our squad, worse than our squad, be more or less expensive (which we do not know). You are comparing apples to pears. The real question is, is Hurst getting the best out of what he bought? If it's yes, then we need better. If it's no, then what's he doing about it? We have 14/36 7 above the drop and 6 from playoffs and 8 from auto promo. Some people on this site think Saint Paul can walk on water, others wanted him out the first time he was hired with his gobby mate, and can't abide him whatever he does. The vast majority want the team steaming up the table entertaining or ugly but at the right end of the table, with Hurst or if we are in deep poo, without him. If anyone is clever enough to organise a Hurst Stay, Hurst Go, Hurst Must Do Better count then try that. Until then the "Hurst talk" carries on I' afraid.
I’d take it a bit further. We’ve won 3 out of 16 competitive matches - yes, that includes the Pisspot Cup but PH made it clear that he wanted to win on Tuesday- and that is clearly not good enough.
The problem is the excuses are running thin - tough opponents (it’s a tough league), injuries, players taking time to settle- all of the above are undeniable but we’re not the only team with those circumstances. I’m sure we’ll find a way to win tomorrow, it’s what we do but we need to start climbing the table, we’ve had too many seasons in this division when we’ve been looking down not up.
I’d take it a bit further. We’ve won 3 out of 16 competitive matches - yes, that includes the Pisspot Cup but PH made it clear that he wanted to win on Tuesday- and that is clearly not good enough.
The problem is the excuses are running thin - tough opponents (it’s a tough league), injuries, players taking time to settle- all of the above are undeniable but we’re not the only team with those circumstances. I’m sure we’ll find a way to win tomorrow, it’s what we do but we need to start climbing the table, we’ve had too many seasons in this division when we’ve been looking down not up.
Good job we have a manager who took us to our highest league finish since 2006. All the more impressive considering it was a team that was built to compete in the conference.
If anyone can do it, I'm sure it can be the guy who did it before...
Form is something that happens in football, and it is not permanent. Hurst has already demonstrated he can turn around a bad run of form. 2 full seasons. Promotion, and highest finish in 17 years. After over performing 2 years a row, he's earned some time to put it right. One risk in football, is if you fire the manager, the players don't get held to account.
Good job we have a manager who took us to our highest league finish since 2006. All the more impressive considering it was a team that was built to compete in the conference.
If anyone can do it, I'm sure it can be the guy who did it before...
Form is something that happens in football, and it is not permanent. Hurst has already demonstrated he can turn around a bad run of form. 2 full seasons. Promotion, and highest finish in 17 years. After over performing 2 years a row, he's earned some time to put it right. One risk in football, is if you fire the manager, the players don't get held to account.
There is a grain of truth in what you say, but you cannot run Town on the vapours of its history. Yesterday's gone. Old and recent history is the glue that binds fans together and gives us something to talk about in between seasons, but it doesn't give us 3 points today. I'm not asking for PH's head, only that he cracks the whip and makes the good, fair and middling players play a bit better and that he puts two up front because we don't have Haaland playing, oh while he's at it, stop wasting passes. Not much to ask for is it? But the Hurst talk goes on.
I'm not asking for PH's head, only that he cracks the whip and makes the good, fair and middling players play a bit better and that he puts two up front because we don't have Haaland playing, oh while he's at it, stop wasting passes. Not much to ask for is it? But the Hurst talk goes on.
I still think the ‘two up front’ thing is a bit of a red herring. They’ll be posters who see today’s team sheet and immediately melodrama that it’s not worth watching the match just because Rose is the sole striker (assuming Wilson isn’t fit). Especially as our current problems aren’t offensive.
Playing two strikers isn’t necessarily more attacking than playing one.
A formation is a formation.
The most attacking managers in the world in recent years are either Bielsa himself or those inspired by Bielsa. The formation of a Bielsa style team is similar to that we are likely to be playing today and next week against Stockport. One up front, 5 in midfield, with one deep pivot.
It’s not about the formation, it’s what the players do on the pitch. I would hope and expect that the same formation we use today will be more attacking than the same one used away at Stockport.
I still think the ‘two up front’ thing is a bit of a red herring. They’ll be posters who see today’s team sheet and immediately melodrama that it’s not worth watching the match just because Rose is the sole striker (assuming Wilson isn’t fit). Especially as our current problems aren’t offensive.
Playing two strikers isn’t necessarily more attacking than playing one.
A formation is a formation.
The most attacking managers in the world in recent years are either Bielsa himself or those inspired by Bielsa. The formation of a Bielsa style team is similar to that we are likely to be playing today and next week against Stockport. One up front, 5 in midfield, with one deep pivot.
It’s not about the formation, it’s what the players do on the pitch. I would hope and expect that the same formation we use today will be more attacking than the same one used away at Stockport.
I think that raises some problems though.
Bielsa is fanatical about the way his teams play. Like Buckley was adamant about his pass and move style. Players brought in by that type of manager instill in their players that way of playing till they can do it in their sleep, and recruit players to play that way.
The result is a well oiled, not necessarily a winning, machine coached to the nth degree to play a certain way.
We might be set up in a modern formation but that is where the comparison ends.
Players brought in by that type of manager instill in their players that way of playing till they can do it in their sleep, and recruit players to play that way.
The result is a well oiled, not necessarily a winning, machine coached to the nth degree to play a certain way.
We might be set up in a modern formation but that is where the comparison ends.
I agree with that.
Although Bielsa transformed existing players most of the time. Other than Bamford, the early period of success for Bielsa with Leeds was done by existing players changing the way they played, rather than via transfers. Obviously, it’s easier to re-boot the footballing brains of young and youth team players, so that’s what happened.
I still think the ‘two up front’ thing is a bit of a red herring. They’ll be posters who see today’s team sheet and immediately melodrama that it’s not worth watching the match just because Rose is the sole striker (assuming Wilson isn’t fit). Especially as our current problems aren’t offensive.
Playing two strikers isn’t necessarily more attacking than playing one.
A formation is a formation.
The most attacking managers in the world in recent years are either Bielsa himself or those inspired by Bielsa. The formation of a Bielsa style team is similar to that we are likely to be playing today and next week against Stockport. One up front, 5 in midfield, with one deep pivot.
It’s not about the formation, it’s what the players do on the pitch. I would hope and expect that the same formation we use today will be more attacking than the same one used away at Stockport.
If two up front isn't to your liking, who is our main man up front? And how do we serve him so that he can stroke the ball into the net? Who is our man who glides past the opposition with his magic boots and sticks one in? It's gone quiet. Who is the guy who passes the ball so it lands on a sixpence? Again quiet. With our wayward passing, I was hoping that when we aim for one, it might get to the other instead of the opposition defence as is normal. We have the players that we have, no good in wishing.
If two up front isn't to your liking, who is our main man up front? Rose And how do we serve him so that he can stroke the ball into the net? The way we have 4 or 5 times already this season Who is our man who glides past the opposition with his magic boots and sticks one in? Eisa It's gone quiet That’ll be the Main Stand Who is the guy who passes the ball so it lands on a sixpence? Not sure but it doesn’t necessarily have to be quite as accurate as that
In my years of watching football two up front gives you more than it doesn't.Firstly if they both work hard ala Rose the defenders can't rest secondly when one of the two wins the ball his mate is nearby to benefit.Most important when a wide man puts a cross in you have two strikers attacking it. The best strikers always worked best in pairs even recently Bogle/Amond .Hope PH gets us on a winning streak and in doing so, the team play more attractive football .Hopefully we don't need wholesale charges in January just a goalscorer and LB.
If two up front isn't to your liking, who is our main man up front? Rose And how do we serve him so that he can stroke the ball into the net? The way we have 4 or 5 times already this season Who is our man who glides past the opposition with his magic boots and sticks one in? Eisa It's gone quiet That’ll be the Main Stand Who is the guy who passes the ball so it lands on a sixpence? Not sure but it doesn’t necessarily have to be quite as accurate as that
If only Rose could stand up when touched, eh? The only reason he's not booked for diving is that the refs feel sorry for our embarrassment. Either Rose stops diving or he goes to the Luis Suarez School of Diving and does it properly.
Rose is not good enough to play as a loner, there has to be two, so it confuses the opposition. And yes a pass on a sixpence is required whilst our players have chamfered boots and either pass to the opposition or just kick it off the pitch. I'm starting to think that the Fans Shop is selling special glasses that when you wear them Mariners become Barcelona. Obviously PH and you wear them. If it wasn't for the score at the end of the match to bring you back to reality, I'd buy and wear a pair as well.
In my years of watching football two up front gives you more than it doesn't.Firstly if they both work hard ala Rose the defenders can't rest secondly when one of the two wins the ball his mate is nearby to benefit.Most important when a wide man puts a cross in you have two strikers attacking it. The best strikers always worked best in pairs even recently Bogle/Amond .Hope PH gets us on a winning streak and in doing so, the team play more attractive football .Hopefully we don't need wholesale charges in January just a goalscorer and LB.
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