the Big Match thread

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Wild has done a good job at Barrow but he hasn't done it on a total shoestring.

Also worth pointing out that Barrow finished a whole point above us last season and are a whole two points ahead of us this season.

Barrow went up to the EFL in the truncated covid season, and then went on a mental hiring and firing spree with 7 managers since Evatt got them promoted.

They are pretty well funded and Wild inherited an established league 2 side, unlike Hurst, but he's hardly set the world alight as your post points out.

They have changed managers constantly and it hasn't yet worked for them, and Wild looks to have stabilised the ship for them, but let's not pretend he's done anything radical just yet.

They are further along in their league 2 development than we are is the difference to my mind.

Wild has been in charge of Barrow as a League Two side a matter of days more than Hurst with us (post promotion).  

For the established League Two side that he inherited, post Evatt it's not a pretty picture at all.  David Dunn and Jolley had awful records, it was only that Rob Kelly steadied the ship (plus the fact we and Southend were so urine poor) that they survived the drop in 2021.    

Whist we were in the Conference Mark Cooper and Phil Brown made collective pigs ears of it, finishing 3rd bottom with only basketcase Oldham and Scunny keeping them out the bottom two.  There's only a handful of players that Wild has stuck with since; Farman, Gotts, White, Canavan and a few others.  I'm not sure if they are further along in their development at this level than us, or should I say if they should be.  If they are, isn't the question about why are they?  

I honestly don't know how well they're funded.  But he took them from finishing 21st and 22nd to 9th in his first season.  Added to that he did a bloody good job at Halifax (and Oldham too before he was unfairly moved on).  The world isn't alight, but I think the point made is that there are good managers out there.  

I've no dispute that Wild is a good manager, he's proved that, and I would be happy to have him here should we be looking, but he's not massively ahead of PH, either last season or this, is my point, and the point also made by Rodley.

Hurst entered leaguel 2 last season with very little prep after our unexpected promotion and did well considering, but Wild started with an already established league 2 side, albeit one that was underperforming. I think he had a slight advantage but only finished one point higher than ourselves.

His side played some good and impressive stuff at BP, but didn't get the job done, a bit like us in so many games. Do they play that well every week? We don't know do we?

Barrow have had a much easier start to the season than ourselves and it will be interesting to see where we are both at come the middle of the season.

All academic really, as PH will be here for the foreseeable whether the fans like it or not.

Yep, we don't know how well they play each week or their budget.  I think there's a fair comparison in the isolated nature of both sides mind.

I'm loathe to compare the two and even go down the path of 'if Wild was here...', I think the original point from Jase and certainly from myself was that whilst there is that risk of getting someone excrement in, there are also good options available too should we need them.  Our recruitment for 20 years was done by John Fenty, his many failures shouldn't be a reason to never think we'll get better.

Either way, you're right.  Hurst isn't walking or getting sacked.  Fingers crossed for a resounding victory tomorrow to spark a long winning run and all Hurst talk is muted.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Yep, we don't know how well they play each week or their budget.  I think there's a fair comparison in the isolated nature of both sides mind.

I'm loathe to compare the two and even go down the path of 'if Wild was here...', I think the original point from Jase and certainly from myself was that whilst there is that risk of getting someone excrement in, there are also good options available too should we need them.  Our recruitment for 20 years was done by John Fenty, his many failures shouldn't be a reason to never think we'll get better.

Either way, you're right.  Hurst isn't walking or getting sacked.  Fingers crossed for a resounding victory tomorrow to spark a long winning run and all Hurst talk is muted.

Why should Hurst talk be muted?  I was following you and Ginnywings comparing  Town and Barrow. The point being what? The players are different, the squad could be in essence much better than our squad, worse than our squad, be more or less expensive (which we do not know). You are comparing apples to pears. The real question is, is Hurst getting the best out of what he bought? If it's yes, then we need better. If it's no, then what's he doing about it? We have 14/36  7 above the drop and 6 from playoffs and 8 from auto promo.
Some people on this site think Saint Paul can walk on water, others wanted him out the first time he was hired with his gobby mate, and can't abide him whatever he does. The vast majority want the team steaming up the table entertaining or ugly but at the right end of the table, with Hurst or if we are in deep poo, without him.
If anyone is clever enough to organise a Hurst Stay, Hurst Go, Hurst Must Do Better count then try that.
Until then the "Hurst talk" carries on I' afraid.

Quoted Text

Fingers crossed for a resounding victory tomorrow to spark a long winning run and all Hurst talk is muted.

Hopefully the bit in bold answers your opening question.

I'm all for open debate and fair criticism, but if we go on a massive winning run I think even his biggest critics would struggle to legitimately go in on him.

Quoted from GrimPol

Why should Hurst talk be muted?  I was following you and Ginnywings comparing  Town and Barrow. The point being what? The players are different, the squad could be in essence much better than our squad, worse than our squad, be more or less expensive (which we do not know). You are comparing apples to pears. The real question is, is Hurst getting the best out of what he bought? If it's yes, then we need better. If it's no, then what's he doing about it? We have 14/36  7 above the drop and 6 from playoffs and 8 from auto promo.
Some people on this site think Saint Paul can walk on water, others wanted him out the first time he was hired with his gobby mate, and can't abide him whatever he does. The vast majority want the team steaming up the table entertaining or ugly but at the right end of the table, with Hurst or if we are in deep poo, without him.
If anyone is clever enough to organise a Hurst Stay, Hurst Go, Hurst Must Do Better count then try that.
Until then the "Hurst talk" carries on I' afraid.

I’d take it a bit further. We’ve won 3 out of 16 competitive matches - yes, that includes the Pisspot Cup but PH made it clear that he wanted to win on Tuesday- and that is clearly not good enough.

The problem is the excuses are running thin - tough opponents (it’s a tough league), injuries, players taking time to settle- all of the above are undeniable but we’re not the only team with those circumstances. I’m sure we’ll find a way to win tomorrow, it’s what we do but we need to start climbing the table, we’ve had too many seasons in this division when we’ve been looking down not up.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’d take it a bit further. We’ve won 3 out of 16 competitive matches - yes, that includes the Pisspot Cup but PH made it clear that he wanted to win on Tuesday- and that is clearly not good enough.

The problem is the excuses are running thin - tough opponents (it’s a tough league), injuries, players taking time to settle- all of the above are undeniable but we’re not the only team with those circumstances. I’m sure we’ll find a way to win tomorrow, it’s what we do but we need to start climbing the table, we’ve had too many seasons in this division when we’ve been looking down not up.

Good job we have a manager who took us to our highest league finish since 2006. All the more impressive considering it was a team that was built to compete in the conference.

If anyone can do it, I'm sure it can be the guy who did it before...

Form is something that happens in football, and it is not permanent. Hurst has already demonstrated he can turn around a bad run of form. 2 full seasons. Promotion, and highest finish in 17 years. After over performing 2 years a row, he's earned some time to put it right. One risk in football, is if you fire the manager, the players don't get held to account.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Good job we have a manager who took us to our highest league finish since 2006. All the more impressive considering it was a team that was built to compete in the conference.

If anyone can do it, I'm sure it can be the guy who did it before...

Form is something that happens in football, and it is not permanent. Hurst has already demonstrated he can turn around a bad run of form. 2 full seasons. Promotion, and highest finish in 17 years. After over performing 2 years a row, he's earned some time to put it right. One risk in football, is if you fire the manager, the players don't get held to account.

There is a grain of truth in what you say, but you cannot run Town on the vapours of its history. Yesterday's gone. Old and recent history is the glue that binds fans together and gives us something to talk about in between seasons, but it doesn't give us 3 points today.
I'm not asking for PH's head, only that he cracks the whip and makes the good, fair and middling players play a bit better and that he puts two up front because we don't have Haaland playing, oh while he's at it, stop wasting passes. Not much to ask for is it?     But the Hurst talk goes on.

Quoted from GrimPol

I'm not asking for PH's head, only that he cracks the whip and makes the good, fair and middling players play a bit better and that he puts two up front because we don't have Haaland playing, oh while he's at it, stop wasting passes. Not much to ask for is it?     But the Hurst talk goes on.

I still think the ‘two up front’ thing is a bit of a red herring. They’ll be posters who see today’s team sheet and immediately melodrama that it’s not worth watching the match just because Rose is the sole striker (assuming Wilson isn’t fit). Especially as our current problems aren’t offensive.

Playing two strikers isn’t necessarily more attacking than playing one.

A formation is a formation.

The most attacking managers in the world in recent years are either Bielsa himself or those inspired by Bielsa. The formation of a Bielsa style team is similar to that we are likely to be playing today and next week against Stockport. One up front, 5 in midfield, with one deep pivot.

It’s not about the formation, it’s what the players do on the pitch. I would hope and expect that the same formation we use today will be more attacking than the same one used away at Stockport.