the Big Match thread

Quoted from devs

Some good points raised here
For the first time in ages me and my mate were sort of 'taking the urine' about the performance v Barrow
Same movie - almost every game - we seem to play with shackles on
Things I'm sick of...

Players making good runs down the wing only to nearly always stop, turn back and then go again along the back line; why can't they/won't they keep bombing on?

One up top - can't see what it achieves; we are paying a heavy price for not signing a target man (even the great passing teams of Buckley had a genuine target man)

Steve Croudson with his 'flip chart' bellowing instructions to players on how to defend and who to watch at set pieces; FFS - can't the players sort that out? Do they need coaching to the nth degree?

Having a team by the throat (eg: Crawley and 2-0 up) and still playing it 'softly/softly' allowing opposition back into the game

Playing it out from the back and still going long; what's the point?

Players playing out of position and/or tweaking the team for the sake of it - it's so much harder for the team to gel. I know injuries have played their part but pick a system and pick your best XI week in/week out where possible

It's becoming more and more like 'chess on grass' - not very entertaining; most fans would much rather us play open and attractive footy and risk being caught out a few times

When was the last time we went away from BP really excited by a great attacking performance in the league? FA Cup style last year is what we should strive for each week!

One thing I would say about the EFL mickey mouse comp - amazing how many of the teams who are going well in L1 and L2 seem to get good results each time they play

Success breeds success

Hurst is a naturally 'defensive-minded' coach/manager and to a point it has served him and us well - but after summer budget increase, 2/3 year contracts for some signings/players, statement signings like Conteh then fans deserve better and that starts with more attacking football

The vast bulk of your post and frustrations I'm in near complete agreement with you.  But Rose is probably as effective and good a target man as we've had for many, many a year.  The problem is that he's completely isolated.  Rose's a quality footballer who I'm very confident could play the No 9 or the No 10 role to equally effective levels.  

With the exception of Saturday, he's had to play both roles at the same time.

It's entirely possible to not be frothing at the mouth to want Hurst sacked yet be disappointed and upset with how things are going, indeed vocalising that too.  

I find it a bit tiresome this constant divide of so called Happy Clappers and those that want to march Hurst out of the town.  Are we really so robotic in our opinions that it can only be one or the other?

I like Hurst and I think he's a good fit for us, as we are for him.  But this season is rapidly in danger of becoming a huge disappointment.  I tuned in for the second half of the Bradford game and it was utterly woeful.  Yes, it's a competition we all hate and without doubt it's a competition that I think we're all probably glad we're out of.  But that performance was one of a team who had just met 10 minutes before kick-off, had gone out with no instruction and didn't really care about the outcome.

I do agree that it must be harder to motivate yourself for some of these games, especially a dead rubber like this. Equally so I don't think there's a single player in our squad who will go out there and not give everything.  Added to that it would be the most un-Paul Hurst thing ever to send his team out without specific instruction.

Yet something isn't adding up.  There was (and if we're going to honest, it isn't something new) a complete lack of an identify to our play.  It's just random, 11 guys out there in positions and we're hoping something comes off.  

At the absolute heart of my frustration is that we had this style of play in pre-season and the first few games, yet we then ditched it.  I got on board with that style of play, it was something I really felt I would enjoy this season and at the first opportunity it's gone.  We've brought in players to play that specific system.  Conteh, just one example, is absolutely wasted as simply a screener of the back-four.  He was brought in because of how he controls play, draws others in, creates space, recycles the ball in a pro-active manner, a whole range of attributes to his game that help us play in a certain style of play.  I would rather we didn't bother bringing in those type players if we're just going to end up reverting to type.  

On another thread I've sympathised with the injuries to key players that are key to this system.  But it's far too naïve to expect that players don't get injured or lose form.  But you can't just abandon your system at the first hurdle.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

The vast bulk of your post and frustrations I'm in near complete agreement with you.  But Rose is probably as effective and good a target man as we've had for many, many a year.  The problem is that he's completely isolated.  Rose's a quality footballer who I'm very confident could play the No 9 or the No 10 role to equally effective levels.  

With the exception of Saturday, he's had to play both roles at the same time.

Good point about Rose - he's top notch at this level

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's entirely possible to not be frothing at the mouth to want Hurst sacked yet be disappointed and upset with how things are going, indeed vocalising that too.  

I find it a bit tiresome this constant divide of so called Happy Clappers and those that want to march Hurst out of the town.  Are we really so robotic in our opinions that it can only be one or the other?

I like Hurst and I think he's a good fit for us, as we are for him.  But this season is rapidly in danger of becoming a huge disappointment.  I tuned in for the second half of the Bradford game and it was utterly woeful.  Yes, it's a competition we all hate and without doubt it's a competition that I think we're all probably glad we're out of.  But that performance was one of a team who had just met 10 minutes before kick-off, had gone out no instruction and didn't really care about the outcome.

I do agree that it must be harder to motivate yourself for some of these games, especially a dead rubber like this. Equally so I don't think there's a single player in our squad who will go out there and not give everything.  Added to that it would be the most un-Paul Hurst thing ever to send his team out without specific instruction.

Yet something isn't adding up.  There was (and if we're going to honest, it isn't something new) a complete lack of an identify to our play.  It's just random, 11 guys out there in positions and we're hoping something comes off.  

At the absolute heart of my frustration is that we had this style of play in pre-season and the first few games and yet we then ditched it.  I got on board with that style of play, it was something I really felt I would enjoy this season and at the first opportunity it's gone.  We've brought in players to play that specific system.  Conteh, just one example, is absolutely wasted as simply a screener of the back-four.  He was brought in because of how he controls play, draws others in, creates space, recycles the ball in a pro-active manner, a whole range of attributes to his game that help us play in a certain style of play.  I would rather we didn't bother bringing in those type players if we're just going to end up reverting to type.  

On another thread I've sympathised with the injuries to key players that are key to this system.  But it's far too naïve to expect that players don't get injured or lose form.  But you can't just abandon your system at the first hurdle.  

Excellent summing up - especially Conteh, who seems capable of offering so much more than basic screening/linking

Quoted from devs

Good point about Rose - he's top notch at this level

Rose was the focal point of a very good Stevenage side last year and he must so frustrated that he's not getting enough supporting players near him.

This is what I find most frustrating - we clearly scouted him, we know his strengths and yet we can't make the most of them. It would appear that Eisa, Gnahoua, Pyke and Wilson can all play the 10 role, they all haven't been injured at the same time. Making us more defensively sound clearly isn't the answer, we're shipping goals for fun and would have shipped a load more in the Barrow game had they had their shooting boots on.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Rose was the focal point of a very good Stevenage side last year and he must so frustrated that he's not getting enough supporting players near him.

This is what I find most frustrating - we clearly scouted him, we know his strengths and yet we can't make the most of them. It would appear that Eisa, Gnahoua, Pyke and Wilson can all play the 10 role, they all haven't been injured at the same time. Making us more defensively sound clearly isn't the answer, we're shipping goals for fun and would have shipped a load more in the Barrow game had they had their shooting boots on.

He scored 6 league goals for Stevenage last season, and already has 4 for us, so he and we are doing something right.

To be fair Eisa was completely anonymous in that No 10 role for the first few games of the season.

Only seen Gnahoua and Pyke either wide or as the main striker and seen such little of Wilson it's hard to judge, although those bits he looks more like someone who wants to be on the shoulder of the last defender and using his pace.

I do think there's a huge void of someone effectively slotting in between the attack and midfield, it's something we've lacked since McAtee's first season.  His second season he was asked to play a different role until the arrival of George Lloyd allowed him to drop deeper.

Eisa, Holohan, Clifton and Hunt have all been asked to play at the tip of a 3-man midfield yet none have either consistently succeeded or had sufficient time to settle into that role and then succeed.   As said wasn't impressed with Eisa in that role, I think Holohan and Clifton are good at buzzing about but technically don't think got the attributes to put the bits together, also they're more effective playing a bit deeper.  That leaves Hunt who he just doesn't fancy.  Gnahoua's probably not the worst shout I've seen to be honest.

I think if you've got a 9 and a 10 in the team you can get away with a bit of a deeper midfielder and even wingers not sitting higher up the pitch.  But if you haven't got a 10, someone like McAtee who links midfield and attack, then you've got to have really high wingers otherwise your lone striker is completely isolated.  It's so easy to defend against.  One in front and one behind, even if the striker wins the first ball they've no chance of getting the second. The best strikers in the world don't get on the end of their own flick-ons.

I might have missed it but is there any news on how long Wilson is out for?  If he's fit you kinda hope that he and Rose could be the pairing.

Quoted from ginnywings

He scored 6 league goals for Stevenage last season, and already has 4 for us, so he and we are doing something right.

It’s about scoring goals from all over the squad. That’s something that we’ve had to do in several recent seasons.

Quoted from diehardmariner

The vast bulk of your post and frustrations I'm in near complete agreement with you.  But Rose is probably as effective and good a target man as we've had for many, many a year.

He's done particularly well to score as many goals as he has given the lack of bodies around him and the fact he's fighting a lone battle much of the time.

I do think what we're lacking is a 'big man' alternative to come off the bench for those games where Rose can't get any traction against the opposition defence. Some (many?) referees at this level are happy for smaller forwards to be shoved around with impunity by big defenders and having a more substantial option to bring on to help counter this would be useful. As Acquah showed for Barrow, a 'big man' up front doesn't have to be nothing but headers and hustle-and-bustle. A real shame that we don't have somebody like him to stick on the bench.

Gnahoua does look after the ball extremely well and you rarely see him lose possession. If we wanted to try somebody as a No. 10, he could well be worth a go. That said, some players can work very effectively in the limited amount of space offered them by the touchline, but can be lost when they move infield where they have defenders incoming from all sides.