Plans for the future

Quoted from toontown

A 12k capacity doesn't have to mean a 9k home capacity. It could be designed in aa way to be able to split the away end if required for more or less home capacity, just as the osmond manages now.

Very very few teams would be needing a 4k visiting capacity, even in the chpionship they wouldn't all need that.

The ground could also be designed so that if a greater capacity than 12k was ever needed (unlikely in my opinion) then it would allow an extra tier for a couple more k to be added.

The difference in cost of building a 14/16k stadium compared to a 12k stadium is minimal. Probably much less than 5%. I don't know what drives your fear in all honesty. I don't understand why you're being so pernickety over 4k additional capacity ie potential income? We've got a board striving every day to get the best possible outcomes out of every possible opportunity with very little ammunition infrastructure wise. We're getting 6k home gates in the National League and you think that the maximum growth that can be achieved from this point over the next hundred years, the lifetime of a new stadium is 70% or so for any eventuality? 30k to our first trip to Wembley, home gates in the 70s and 80s pre Taylor Report and the Fenty era suggest otherwise..

Regarding building work, Bigdog is right. It's easier and cheaper to build over capacity from the off, than it is to add on later if needed.

My thinking is that it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Quoted from toontown

A 12k capacity doesn't have to mean a 9k home capacity. It could be designed in aa way to be able to split the away end if required for more or less home capacity, just as the osmond manages now.

Very very few teams would be needing a 4k visiting capacity, even in the chpionship they wouldn't all need that.

The ground could also be designed so that if a greater capacity than 12k was ever needed (unlikely in my opinion) then it would allow an extra tier for a couple more k to be added.

I could name at least four or five currently in League One who would have a good go at filling it if they were doing well..

talking of our support, and don't know how relevant t this is, but the subscribers to our Youtube channel is about to exceed 11,000. Which suggests to me that there is the potential to get even higher attendances than we are experiencing at present

We don't need to fill a 13/14k capacity stadium, but it is there for when we need it. Most clubs outside of the PL don't fill their stadiums, but a good league season or a cup run means much greater income. All things been equal, we should go for a decent capacity which will see us adequately provided for in the decades to come.

I’d say 12-14k would give enough for growth and if designed right could  look decent with smaller crowds during the rough times. It needs corners filled for acoustics but all the same size ie Donny doesn’t looks as impressive as the New York with a 2k less capacity as from the outside the big home side stand gives the appearance of a 25,000 seater. If the facilities were better, were it’s easy for all to get food, drink and toilet access both pre, post and half time plus entertainment to make it a family day out like at bigger stadia, I think it would be surprising what we could attract - after all it’s not like there’s rival entertainment in the town. That’s all without looking at what finances corporate packages would bring on match days and all year round.

Quoted from 24

I’d say 12-14k would give enough for growth and if designed right could  look decent with smaller crowds during the rough times. It needs corners filled for acoustics but all the same size ie Donny doesn’t looks as impressive as the New York with a 2k less capacity as from the outside the big home side stand gives the appearance of a 25,000 seater. If the facilities were better, were it’s easy for all to get food, drink and toilet access both pre, post and half time plus entertainment to make it a family day out like at bigger stadia, I think it would be surprising what we could attract - after all it’s not like there’s rival entertainment in the town. That’s all without looking at what finances corporate packages would bring on match days and all year round.

And there's the irrational fear of empty seats. 12k will be too small. Limit potential earnings because we don't want to look bad on TV if attendances drop.. Prepare for failure and not for success..

8k fans in a new 14/16k stadium with better acoustics will bring in more income and sound louder than 8k in BP today. We'd probably sell out 14/16k if we were doing well in League One against Sheff Wednesday, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Lincoln, Ipswich and if other teams like Bolton, Charlton, Plymouth, Oxford, Rotherham, Donny etc were doing well, they'd bring a fair few.

JS and AP have won over our floating fan base to become regular attendees again. Still much work to do on bringing those fans back who haven't been for a while and we're at the point already where we haven't got the capacity to do that, even in the National League.

No guarantees, but the way we're going on the pitch, League One might not be as far away as we'd normally think in past years..

Bigdog is absolutely right on this I think 16k would be a decent size that's 12k for the home allocation and 4k for the away, anything less is extremely unambitious, while maybe 20k is a bit excessive. There's a sweet spot we need to hit to give us a reasonable chance of progressing and growing without us sitting in an empty-ish bowl.

As for BP,  the redevelopment costs will be excessive on a constrained site and you'd imagine the planning constraints would be onerous to discharge. I don't think anything reasonably useful to us in the long term I.e the next 60-80 years could be done there.

It might not be seen by 1878 as a short term priority but we'll have to do something about this at some point, at the very least by the end of this decade I'd hope.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Of course we had deemed planning consent for a much bigger capacity pre-all seater. What happened in the last seasons of 10k plus crowds in the early 80s - I think we just parked further away and walked.

Yes, planning conditions will be much tighter on parking now. They'll need to be a sustainable transport plan for any significant increase in capacity at BP.

Park and ride at Great Coates - train + extra buses? Would need to be used for much more than match days to be viable - also residents revolting again?

You'd are correct in that when we had larger crowds in the 80's peoples did park further away and walk to the ground but why? Because the the available on-street got filled earlier. We now have more car ownership in them adjacent to side of streets which are just makes the parking space problem worse. Even back in the 90's when the club showed  a desire to develop BP the Council's preference was a ground move and they stated thus publicly.
Much is made of Park'n'Ride but where would it be sited and who would benefit. Anywhere on the A180 would only benefit visiting fans or those who live in the nearby villages or Immingham. Likewise the other roads you mentioned. Full the bulk of fans who live within them main part of NE Lincs ( excluding Immingham) then a Park'n'Ride would be of no benefit. Residents of Waltham, New Waltham, Humberstone, Scartho, Laceby Acres or the Wybers (where I live) would see no benefit as they  are all served by a bus service that gets them either into town or past the ground. Even Immingham has a bus service every half hour and a connection to them ground. The Park'n'Ride system onlyreally works for either a popular tourist town such as York or a big city - places where visitors are going to spend the whole day day there.

Quoted from rancido

You'd are correct in that when we had larger crowds in the 80's peoples did park further away and walk to the ground but why? Because the the available on-street got filled earlier. We now have more car ownership in them adjacent to side of streets which are just makes the parking space problem worse. Even back in the 90's when the club showed  a desire to develop BP the Council's preference was a ground move and they stated thus publicly.
Much is made of Park'n'Ride but where would it be sited and who would benefit. Anywhere on the A180 would only benefit visiting fans or those who live in the nearby villages or Immingham. Likewise the other roads you mentioned. Full the bulk of fans who live within them main part of NE Lincs ( excluding Immingham) then a Park'n'Ride would be of no benefit. Residents of Waltham, New Waltham, Humberstone, Scartho, Laceby Acres or the Wybers (where I live) would see no benefit as they  are all served by a bus service that gets them either into town or past the ground. Even Immingham has a bus service every half hour and a connection to them ground. The Park'n'Ride system onlyreally works for either a popular tourist town such as York or a big city - places where visitors are going to spend the whole day day there.

Predictive text has made a right mess of my post but I'm sure you get the gist!