Plans for the future

Question - Do ABP actually want to have development in the docks that could throw port security into the water?

I don't think that 6,000 + fans would want to stop at a security gate to say - going to the match !

Has the free / open port access question been asked?

Quoted from acko338

Question - Do ABP actually want to have development in the docks that could throw port security into the water?

I don't think that 6,000 + fans would want to stop at a security gate to say - going to the match !

Has the free / open port access question been asked?

If the development went ahead there wouldn’t be security access to it. ABP would have no interest. They move off.
The commercial and fish market would be able to have their own secure access and control under ABP . Stopping business on both is not the intention. To develop the vast derelict areas is.
Draw a line down East side road up to Wharncliffe road then a line along to the east of Wharncliffe.
Then anything to the North and west is ABP the rest to the south and east is development potential for the council.
Shangri la is either a mini San Francisco with seafood restaurant bars food outlets, new heritage centre /  museum . ( Where are those big models) etc or it’s not included and left as part of the fish market complex.  

I think if these whole project proves to be a success then the present heritage centre and along the west  side of the old Alexandra dock as well as the bus station on the east side and some of the buildings further up could make way for decent housing developments.
As a previous poster said .. people like water.

I know I’ve gone on a bit but I have to be honest here. I thought for years the best place for a new ground would be Great Coates . Easy to get to no neighbours etc.  It was a poster on here a couple of years ago that mentioned building at the top of Freeman street. At first I though that’s nuts and how do fans get there? But his post made me think about this.  He was absolutely right.
I fortunately visited Hartlepool, Milton Keynes and Chatham not long after and that’s when I started to realise the potential.
Great Coates would have been a white elephant and depressing like Scunthorpe. I was badly wrong and the more I thought about it the more I realised what a massive catalyst the Mariners moving could be for the town.  .  

Great thread, equally encouraging to see people generate ideas as it is depressing to see excuses already made for them not happening...

Every single point about how this town thinks is hitting the nail on the head.  We accept this standard day in and day out.  The estuary should be our absolute focal point for regeneration.  Other towns and cities with far less water make more of it than we do.  Instead we're obsessed with putting a bloody bus station back in to its original place.

From the Riverhead right up to the Fitties, everything should be geared towards making it attractive and generating income.  I don't buy into this nonsense that we can't do stuff because ABP own land.  If there's a profit in it for them they'll be interested.  

The point of car parking is one I find interesting.  I completely agree that getting permission for parking is going to be a struggle, for a variety of reasons already listed.  That said it's 2021 and like it or not a lot of people (home or away fans) will come to the football by car.  Especially as we've weak (at best) transport links.  This isn't central London where you can get a tube to fifty yards of the ground.  A few hundred spaces won't accommodate whatever demand we have for seats.  I don't generally drive to games, I'm fortunate in that I live close enough and am perfectly able to walk to games.  On occasions when I've been running late and had to drive it's a bloody nightmare finding a space.  If you're a casual fan it'll put you off.  If you're living in Brigg, Market Rasen, Caistor or even as close as Immingham you don't really have much choice but to drive and don't want to get to the game an hour or two before kick off, you must question if you can really be arsed driving round for 15 minutes trying to find a parking space.  How many fans live within a few miles of the ground?  Definitely not enough to just accept that we can't have parking.

We, as a town, need to think differently about it.  Great ideas about serving both the football ground and the tourist trade.  I've seen rationale before that we're not big enough for a Park and Ride and people wouldn't use it..  In the height of summer I'd beg to differ.  If it's good enough and easy to use then people will use it rather than spend 40 minutes crawling down Cleethorpe/Grimsby Road before spending another 40 minutes aimlessly looking for a parking space.  Equally so the same for wherever the future of GTFC is.

Quoted from Jackal

If the development went ahead there wouldn’t be security access to it. ABP would have no interest. They move off.
The commercial and fish market would be able to have their own secure access and control under ABP . Stopping business on both is not the intention. To develop the vast derelict areas is.
Draw a line down East side road up to Wharncliffe road then a line along to the east of Wharncliffe.
Then anything to the North and west is ABP the rest to the south and east is development potential for the council.
Shangri la is either a mini San Francisco with seafood restaurant bars food outlets, new heritage centre /  museum . ( Where are those big models) etc or it’s not included and left as part of the fish market complex.  

I think if these whole project proves to be a success then the present heritage centre and along the west  side of the old Alexandra dock as well as the bus station on the east side and some of the buildings further up could make way for decent housing developments.
As a previous poster said .. people like water.

I know I’ve gone on a bit but I have to be honest here. I thought for years the best place for a new ground would be Great Coates . Easy to get to no neighbours etc.  It was a poster on here a couple of years ago that mentioned building at the top of Freeman street. At first I though that’s nuts and how do fans get there? But his post made me think about this.  He was absolutely right.
I fortunately visited Hartlepool, Milton Keynes and Chatham not long after and that’s when I started to realise the potential.
Great Coates would have been a white elephant and depressing like Scunthorpe. I was badly wrong and the more I thought about it the more I realised what a massive catalyst the Mariners moving could be for the town.  .  

At the moment the security gate controls access to both Gorton Street and Murray Street. If a stadium was built on an infilled dock ABP would presumably need two gates, one on Auckland Road and another near to Wickham Road.

How can you say that Great Coates was easy to get to and then ask how fans would get to Freeman Street? I get a headache trying to understand some people.

Quoted from Jackal

If the development went ahead there wouldn’t be security access to it. ABP would have no interest. They move off.
The commercial and fish market would be able to have their own secure access and control under ABP . Stopping business on both is not the intention. To develop the vast derelict areas is.
Draw a line down East side road up to Wharncliffe road then a line along to the east of Wharncliffe.
Then anything to the North and west is ABP the rest to the south and east is development potential for the council.
Shangri la is either a mini San Francisco with seafood restaurant bars food outlets, new heritage centre /  museum . ( Where are those big models) etc or it’s not included and left as part of the fish market complex.  

I think if these whole project proves to be a success then the present heritage centre and along the west  side of the old Alexandra dock as well as the bus station on the east side and some of the buildings further up could make way for decent housing developments.
As a previous poster said .. people like water.

I know I’ve gone on a bit but I have to be honest here. I thought for years the best place for a new ground would be Great Coates . Easy to get to no neighbours etc.  It was a poster on here a couple of years ago that mentioned building at the top of Freeman street. At first I though that’s nuts and how do fans get there? But his post made me think about this.  He was absolutely right.
I fortunately visited Hartlepool, Milton Keynes and Chatham not long after and that’s when I started to realise the potential.
Great Coates would have been a white elephant and depressing like Scunthorpe. I was badly wrong and the more I thought about it the more I realised what a massive catalyst the Mariners moving could be for the town.  .  

I like your thinking. Maybe any central government help (£25m or whatever it was) can go towards pump-priming this sort of investment. Government lays the infrastructure, like it did with Canary Wharfe, private sector can make a lot of money from developing the space. The public realm has got to be taken care of properly, both in concept and on-going. That all needs a guiding hand.

People do absolutely want to live by water. Whether it's see, river, lake, reservoir. You've only got to look at prices of flats/houses to see the difference a street or two back makes.

Quoted from Bigdog

I could name at least four or five currently in League One who would have a good go at filling a 4,000 capacity stand if they were doing well..

Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday certainly, but who else were you thinking of? Bolton? Ipswich? Portsmouth? Charlton? I'm not sure they would bring that many on a Tuesday night. Even if they did, that's still only six teams out of 23. The point I'm making is that a 4,000 capacity away end would be sparsely populated for the vast majority of games in League One or Two.

Our chairman won't entertain a new ground as we can't fill Blundell Park
That's his words and people want to listen and the idiots who don't listen need their heads rattling

Quoted from White_shorts

At the moment the security gate controls access to both Gorton Street and Murray Street. If a stadium was built on an infilled dock ABP would presumably need two gates, one on Auckland Road and another near to Wickham Road.

How can you say that Great Coates was easy to get to and then ask how fans would get to Freeman Street? I get a headache trying to understand some people.

What is this obsession with barriers?  My answer is ok they need two barriers. And?? ABP do a lot of work for us and they have lots of experience with putting up barriers so I’m very very relaxed about that!
I don’t think it’s a show stopper.
Freeman street is great if you’re living in the middle of town but if your not then it’s a pain the bottom. Without associated road building a Saturday afternoon would be silly busy again no parking like Blundell park and put shoppers off as well as fans.

Like I said the concept works so I changed my mind with some extra planning thrown in to the development to attract both part time fans and business development for the Town.  

PS Asprins good   

Quoted from MrFisherman

Our chairman won't entertain a new ground as we can't fill Blundell Park
That's his words and people want to listen and the idiots who don't listen need their heads rattling

And I’m sure when he buys a lottery ticket he’s only interested in giving to the good causes and won’t be interested in winning the jackpot.

Yes the clubs needs fans and stability and a two or three month good run is not the basis for a massive investment.
But i suspect he’s a smart man and if the club is stable and a plan that is financially sound cones forward he’s not going to say no it’s Blundell park or nothing.
He knows very well Blundell park will eventually fall fowl of safety checks along with the constant struggle to both maintain the ground and to attract new commercial support will result in a negative impact long term.
Yes it’s not right now he’s totally correct but an outline plan will be quietly sitting there.
Chewing over the ideas is fun but maybe six thousand people chewing it over will extract something special. Only takes a couple of clever thoughts.

Can't fill it is very different from not currently filling it.

Reach for the stars rather than looking just above the gutter.  We haven't filled BP for years and years, but that's no reason why we can't have absolute sell-outs from here on.  I want this club to be at a point where we're having to turn fans away, but I don't want that to be the case for too long.   I want us to be having capacity to meet the surge in demand we should aspire to.

The more people you can get in a ground, the more people you've got potential to keep.  If we're forever stuck on 7,000 capacity then we'll never, ever progress beyond that as our limit for growth.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that we're nearing the point where BP is a total sell-out.  I'm quietly confident it will happen this season.  Doors shut, signs hanging outside the ticket office.  A localish team like Notts County or Chesterfield will come here for a top of the table battle and you won't be able to get a ticket for love nor money.  But from the home ends demand is increasing regardless of who're playing.  The better we get on the field, the better the matchday experience gets and the more people talk about then the more people will want to come to games, then come back for more.

Be a crying shame if we never managed to tap into more than 4-5% of the local population.