Plans for the future

Agree with much of what you say Jackal. I think regarding parking though, it isn’t going to happen. We won’t be able to yield a ground with enough parking for everyone who wants to jump in their car and go door to door. There won’t be permission, there probably won’t be space, the space won’t be affordable, there won’t be sufficient access on and off site to keep traffic flowing etc.

I’ve been a fan since the early 60s and the best period started, I think, was when Big Laurie Mac became manager. He inherited a team on the up perhaps, but he knew how to harness the local media and get bits on tv and in the press all the time. Couple this with a good team and the whole town was behind the team. This is similar to what hopefully is happening with the club at the moment.
Anyway, with competent management of the club, engaging the media and an exciting successful team, we ended up with attendances for some games, of 23000.

I think, if handled correctly and success on the pitch, this is the sort of thing that could be possible.

UTM

Quoted from Jackal

I now live away so from for me personally any new ground has to have parking. People do use buses but do they want to wait for a bus from Holton le clay in the cold and rain. No, so they don’t bother going as there’s no parking.
It has to be convenient because we’re all lazy so we like and expect  it that way. Out the car into the ground ( maybe a three min walk but plenty of spaces and no stress finding a space.)

My view on the ground is maybe something like MK dons  built with retail and food outlets but plenty of parking .
Did I mention plenty of parking?  

I see your point but no council in the country would grant planning permission for a new stadium (or virtually any new structure) with more than a few parking spaces. It isn’t sustainable. It would have to be park-and-ride or linked to an existing or enhanced public transport system.

I take on board all the comments on parking but that’s why I was so impressed by the Milton Keynes set up.
I’m not suggesting there will be 20,000 parking spaces.
The retailers surround the ground at Milton Keynes but it appears the retailers have contributed to the cost of extra parking along with the football club.
There are far more spaces than the retailers need so it’s beneficial to both the club and the retailers at different times. .  I would guess 2 - 3000 spaces could easily be achievable for a docks stadium at 242 cars per acre.  If needed there will still be plenty of spare unused land to the East of the docks so throw some hardcore down and charge £3 - 5  a day to pay for security and a peppercorn rent to ABP. (they have no income on it today). One day it may be used for dockside housing but by then the club will know it’s needs and can cost in a replacement such as single level multi-storeys next to the ground.

My view on the ground is something similar to the MK  set up but on a smaller scale. Maybe 12,000 capacity with a design that could add in sections up to 20’000 if it was every needed. The Mk stadium is compact and looks to have a potentially good noise level. It’s a bit too big for us but looks and feels impressive.  
I too remember being crammed into our ground at 23,000 capacity and was fortunate to have a very good view of Mick Brolly’s goals against Everton
I had my Parker on but damn it was hot with all those bodies stuffed in there.

Quoted from bedders78

Football is much better attended now, comparing 1995 to 2019, Prem is up 57%, Champ up 85%, L1 59% and L2 32%.

https://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/nav/attnengleague.htm

That's interesting Bedders thanks, I knew it had gone up but hadn't realised the lower league increase had been as much as that. Surprises me really.

I think one of the big differences is that MK is a growing, and relatively prosperous town, and now a decade later than the MK project, bricks and mortar retail is on its uppers. There’s not going to be the same opportunity to support the parking.

Quoted from Jackal

I take on board all the comments on parking but that’s why I was so impressed by the Milton Keynes set up.
I’m not suggesting there will be 20,000 parking spaces.
The retailers surround the ground at Milton Keynes but it appears the retailers have contributed to the cost of extra parking along with the football club.
There are far more spaces than the retailers need so it’s beneficial to both the club and the retailers at different times. .  I would guess 2 - 3000 spaces could easily be achievable for a docks stadium at 242 cars per acre.  If needed there will still be plenty of spare unused land to the East of the docks so throw some hardcore down and charge £3 - 5  a day to pay for security and a peppercorn rent to ABP. (they have no income on it today). One day it may be used for dockside housing but by then the club will know it’s needs and can cost in a replacement such as single level multi-storeys next to the ground.

My view on the ground is something similar to the MK  set up but on a smaller scale. Maybe 12,000 capacity with a design that could add in sections up to 20’000 if it was every needed. The Mk stadium is compact and looks to have a potentially good noise level. It’s a bit too big for us but looks and feels impressive.  
I too remember being crammed into our ground at 23,000 capacity and was fortunate to have a very good view of Mick Brolly’s goals against Everton
I had my Parker on but damn it was hot with all those bodies stuffed in there.

I hear what you say, but I'd be very reluctant to use Milton Keynes as a template for town planning or the advancement of our historic football club - something the fake Dons can only dream of.

I've spent quite a bit of time, regrettably, on business in Milton Keynes in recent years. It's a place so carefully and efficiently thought out that it is so utterly devoid of soul. There are some smart elements to it, many of which are fairly unique to this country, but as a package it's a depressing concrete jungle which to me appears to be little more than a pitiful homage to the American dream.

Not withstanding the fact that bricks and mortar retail and chain hospitality are both on their knees, I don't need or want a Currys, Nando's or Frankie & Benny's opposite my ground. Nothing against those businesses, but there's a time and a place for it and it's not a Saturday afternoon.

Milton Keynes is a new town, built on land that had never been occupied. You can pave paradise all you want there with the right commercial will. We have an old town, and we should be proud of it. An old town with history, albeit full of relics of a bygone era.

I think we have a duty to regenerate those areas. If that means I can't park my car within fifteen feet of a turnstile, then so be it. The day this club begins to mirror MK Dons is the day I don't want to know anymore.

No disrespect to your post, it's not personal. I just don't particularly like Milton Keynes, and even more so I despise its football club and what it stands for.

Quoted from Jackal

I take on board all the comments on parking but that’s why I was so impressed by the Milton Keynes set up.
I’m not suggesting there will be 20,000 parking spaces.
The retailers surround the ground at Milton Keynes but it appears the retailers have contributed to the cost of extra parking along with the football club.
There are far more spaces than the retailers need so it’s beneficial to both the club and the retailers at different times. .  I would guess 2 - 3000 spaces could easily be achievable for a docks stadium at 242 cars per acre.  If needed there will still be plenty of spare unused land to the East of the docks so throw some hardcore down and charge £3 - 5  a day to pay for security and a peppercorn rent to ABP. (they have no income on it today). One day it may be used for dockside housing but by then the club will know it’s needs and can cost in a replacement such as single level multi-storeys next to the ground.

My view on the ground is something similar to the MK  set up but on a smaller scale. Maybe 12,000 capacity with a design that could add in sections up to 20’000 if it was every needed. The Mk stadium is compact and looks to have a potentially good noise level. It’s a bit too big for us but looks and feels impressive.  
I too remember being crammed into our ground at 23,000 capacity and was fortunate to have a very good view of Mick Brolly’s goals against Everton
I had my Parker on but damn it was hot with all those bodies stuffed in there.

The MK stadium site looks good, near major roads, and has an anchor tenant Asda plus other retailers. Locally there is only the land next to Morrisons without a 'New Supermarket' store being built on a new site elsewhere. Land near the docks has good access but would need something like an anchor tenant ( or several medium size companies ) to help with the cost.

I was in the 23,000 at the Everton game but you have to remember it was 1 game. Both Lawrie Mc and George Kerr's sides only averaged 11,000+ gates in 1 season each. Attendances gradually dwindled away after the George Kerr era with the best years attendances then being under Alan Buckley with nearly 7,000 gates. In fact, I believe our average attendance this season, so far, is the best for a couple of decades.

We are on the brink of a new era, both on and off the pitch, but JS did say something like 'let's start to fill BP', and then we'll look at a new stadium.

MK is a horrific match day experience, feels like you’re off to buy a TV rather than go to football. Yes, it perhaps accommodates folk who want to drive to the ground, sit in traffic in a car park and go home but offers little in the way of anything, or at least that was mine and many others experiences…

I take the point of folk needing to drive but by the time you’ve driven and sat waiting to park in what we all know would be a bottle neck car park, one could drive to a sensible park and ride destination and simply use that, wouldn’t take any longer to get to a from the match in the long run…I mean unless they’re building on the edge of town or out of town, which would be rubbish anyway, there will always be on street parking for those willing to travel by car…

I know the common point of this thread has turned to park and ride, but IF the ground was to be anywhere near the docks, then surely the docks train station is the answer that’s staring us right in the face?