Plans for the future

Quoted from Jackal

I take on board all the comments on parking but that’s why I was so impressed by the Milton Keynes set up.
I’m not suggesting there will be 20,000 parking spaces.
The retailers surround the ground at Milton Keynes but it appears the retailers have contributed to the cost of extra parking along with the football club.
There are far more spaces than the retailers need so it’s beneficial to both the club and the retailers at different times. .  I would guess 2 - 3000 spaces could easily be achievable for a docks stadium at 242 cars per acre.  If needed there will still be plenty of spare unused land to the East of the docks so throw some hardcore down and charge £3 - 5  a day to pay for security and a peppercorn rent to ABP. (they have no income on it today). One day it may be used for dockside housing but by then the club will know it’s needs and can cost in a replacement such as single level multi-storeys next to the ground.

“Parking? Where we’re going we don’t need parking”…

You would struggle to get approval for even 2,000-3,000 parking spaces for anything. Whether it be a football stadium or retail park. You have to remember that a lot of under 30s don’t or can’t even drive for various reasons and that trend will likely be more pronounced by the time a new stadium is completed.

You would be lucky to get more than 100 spaces, reserved for staff, ex-local dignitaries and their expensive motors.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

“Parking? Where we’re going we don’t need parking”…

You would struggle to get approval for even 2,000-3,000 parking spaces for anything. Whether it be a football stadium or retail park. You have to remember that a lot of under 30s don’t or can’t even drive for various reasons and that trend will likely be more pronounced by the time a new stadium is completed.

You would be lucky to get more than 100 spaces, reserved for staff, ex-local dignitaries and their expensive motors.

Aside from little need for a car park of more than say 200 spaces, as you say, nobody would give planning permissions for a car park that’s almost 1 seat 1 space…

Just a quick google search and technically, Old Trafford and the Etihad have less than a 1000 spaces between them.

If additional parking is needing it’s either on street or schools/local businesses etc cashing in…I’d imagine this would happen at town should we ever consistently get more than 6000…

I know more folk that don’t drive on match days for various reasons from wanting a beer, preferring to walk, hassle of driving/parking or a combination of lots of things.

I think I’m giving the impression I’m supporting a copy of MK, I’m not. It’s the concept of the multi-purpose aspect.
Milton Keynes  as a town was over landscaped and didn’t end up being the designers concept and he was very disappointed. ( His own words)

Grimsby has two struggling shopping areas. Both with some good retailers but both dilapidated and quite frankly not looking good for long term survival. Online is killing a lot of general shopping but not retail that’s interesting and a pleasant experience. I live in a very nice part of Cheshire and a few of the local market towns have intense competition on shops from nearby cities and outlets but they have turned themselves into little tourist traps. They have attracted quirky but fun retail. Think of sea view street but bigger and yet more varied. Grimsby doesn’t have near neighbours to pull these people away if it gets it right. Lincoln takes a lot of Grimsby’s casual shoppers and that’s 30 miles away! It doesn’t have better shops it’s the environment. Grimsby's heritage and docks are its best asset.

I used Zizzi as an example but personally why not a version of Steels? Make it about the towns heritage not the same old bland town centre.

Grimsby needs to be far bolder in its ambition.
The underlying issue and remember I was born and raised there is that Grimsby is just not a nice enough place to attract people or business to. The run down impression is everywhere. Yes it’s never going to be York or Bath but unless you stop the rot at some point it will only get worse.
Grimsby has been dealt a sh*t  deal by the loss of fishing in Iceland etc but no one is going to help you. You have to help yourselves. The government will talk of levelling up and maybe throw a bone of £25m but they’ve been taking that in cuts for the last 10 years. Sorry but you’re on your own.

I mentioned the negative stuff above because I think Grimsby needs to take some bold decisions. The town can’t support two shopping areas so make a choice. Use the docks, use the football ground and concentrate the shopping in a single stronger offering.
Don’t build a soulless shopping centre. Make it interesting. Some docks elsewhere have a mixture of retail and restaurants along with housing which have given life back to a town centre.  The Dock is a huge potential asset on the doorstep to development.. ( ABP know this) It’s a once in a generation opportunity if that ground is ever moved.  The area needs to extract the best value not build a Glumford park.

With a nice environment, business will find it easier to attract workers and their families . Ask the hospital how hard it is to attract first class doctors? ( no disrespect to the present doctors and one is a good friend so inside info). They will struggle because the doctor’s families want to live in a nicer place such as Lincoln. Years ago I had family in Scunthorpe who travelled to Grimsby for the shopping experience as it was a nicer day out.. They don’t now. They didn’t always shop they wanted something to do and it was a nicer place to be. They would pay for parking still and buy lunch. It’s the environment.
My thoughts are to move our retailers ( yes some can’t move or will be duplicated). I don’t want to kill off the coffee shops and the niche businesses who are surviving. Give them the new outlets and encourage them. We don’t need more shops as such as we have too many but concentrate them in something fun and hopefully successful to be part of.  Add indoor water park next to a new fishing heritage centre, mini cinema complex, throw in some of the colleges food speciality departments. I”m not saying all good ideas just ideas.

I sound like I have a downer on the town I don’t. It gave me my chance in life and gave me my hard work but be nice values. I’m just conscious that when the town has to make some big calls the football ground and the docks would in my opinion be the best and biggest chance this town has to drag itself out of the mud and regenerate.

As for the MK dons ground. It’s again the concept of multi use and compact. Grimsby doesn’t need a large stadium it just needs to cater as others have said for maybe 8000 to 10000 with a bit of expansion. Too big a ground and you lose the intensity.
The other comment was correct on the 23000 it didn’t happen very often. Just fun when it did.

Quoted from Jackal

I think I’m giving the impression I’m supporting a copy of MK, I’m not. It’s the concept of the multi-purpose aspect.
Milton Keynes  as a town was over landscaped and didn’t end up being the designers concept and he was very disappointed. ( His own words)

Grimsby has two struggling shopping areas. Both with some good retailers but both dilapidated and quite frankly not looking good for long term survival. Online is killing a lot of general shopping but not retail that’s interesting and a pleasant experience. I live in a very nice part of Cheshire and a few of the local market towns have intense competition on shops from nearby cities and outlets but they have turned themselves into little tourist traps. They have attracted quirky but fun retail. Think of sea view street but bigger and yet more varied. Grimsby doesn’t have near neighbours to pull these people away if it gets it right. Lincoln takes a lot of Grimsby’s casual shoppers and that’s 30 miles away! It doesn’t have better shops it’s the environment. Grimsby's heritage and docks are its best asset.

I used Zizzi as an example but personally why not a version of Steels? Make it about the towns heritage not the same old bland town centre.

Grimsby needs to be far bolder in its ambition.
The underlying issue and remember I was born and raised there is that Grimsby is just not a nice enough place to attract people or business to. The run down impression is everywhere. Yes it’s never going to be York or Bath but unless you stop the rot at some point it will only get worse.
Grimsby has been dealt a sh*t  deal by the loss of fishing in Iceland etc but no one is going to help you. You have to help yourselves. The government will talk of levelling up and maybe throw a bone of £25m but they’ve been taking that in cuts for the last 10 years. Sorry but you’re on your own.

I mentioned the negative stuff above because I think Grimsby needs to take some bold decisions. The town can’t support two shopping areas so make a choice. Use the docks, use the football ground and concentrate the shopping in a single stronger offering.
Don’t build a soulless shopping centre. Make it interesting. Some docks elsewhere have a mixture of retail and restaurants along with housing which have given life back to a town centre.  The Dock is a huge potential asset on the doorstep to development.. ( ABP know this) It’s a once in a generation opportunity if that ground is ever moved.  The area needs to extract the best value not build a Glumford park.

With a nice environment, business will find it easier to attract workers and their families . Ask the hospital how hard it is to attract first class doctors? ( no disrespect to the present doctors and one is a good friend so inside info). They will struggle because the doctor’s families want to live in a nicer place such as Lincoln. Years ago I had family in Scunthorpe who travelled to Grimsby for the shopping experience as it was a nicer day out.. They don’t now. They didn’t always shop they wanted something to do and it was a nicer place to be. They would pay for parking still and buy lunch. It’s the environment.
My thoughts are to move our retailers ( yes some can’t move or will be duplicated). I don’t want to kill off the coffee shops and the niche businesses who are surviving. Give them the new outlets and encourage them. We don’t need more shops as such as we have too many but concentrate them in something fun and hopefully successful to be part of.  Add indoor water park next to a new fishing heritage centre, mini cinema complex, throw in some of the colleges food speciality departments. I”m not saying all good ideas just ideas.

I sound like I have a downer on the town I don’t. It gave me my chance in life and gave me my hard work but be nice values. I’m just conscious that when the town has to make some big calls the football ground and the docks would in my opinion be the best and biggest chance this town has to drag itself out of the mud and regenerate.

As for the MK dons ground. It’s again the concept of multi use and compact. Grimsby doesn’t need a large stadium it just needs to cater as others have said for maybe 8000 to 10000 with a bit of expansion. Too big a ground and you lose the intensity.
The other comment was correct on the 23000 it didn’t happen very often. Just fun when it did.

I think what you are saying has a very strong sense of truth about it; I can't think of a better place to start the regeneration of the town than the docks. Much like the football club, the town needs some confidence to enable it to get going, and you are right, we need to do that ourselves. ABP need to be open to discussions about how the docks can be liberated from the industrial wasteland they are right now. The Kasbah looks exciting but is quite limited in it's scope (ABP are not keen on anything entertainment related, apparently) but imagine something like the Albert Dock in Liverpool? Imagine limited housing/apartments looking out over the estuary, imagine more sea/wind sports competitions here ad all the associated trades and support industries, Grimsby could definitely re-build itself as a marina town, I reckon. So yes, Jackal, I think you are onto something and possibly when Mr Shutes starts his Ice Factory theatre plans in earnest, it might be a catalyst for the whole area...

Having been on the docks recently I just can’t imagine people wanting to go there for leisure. Firstly you have to queue at the barrier to actually get in there and more importantly due to the many thriving businesses already there it stinks of fish. Unless you plan to move all the fish businesses I can’t imagine sipping an overpriced latte etc there.

Quoted from Jackal

I think I’m giving the impression I’m supporting a copy of MK, I’m not. It’s the concept of the multi-purpose aspect.
Milton Keynes  as a town was over landscaped and didn’t end up being the designers concept and he was very disappointed. ( His own words)

Grimsby has two struggling shopping areas. Both with some good retailers but both dilapidated and quite frankly not looking good for long term survival. Online is killing a lot of general shopping but not retail that’s interesting and a pleasant experience. I live in a very nice part of Cheshire and a few of the local market towns have intense competition on shops from nearby cities and outlets but they have turned themselves into little tourist traps. They have attracted quirky but fun retail. Think of sea view street but bigger and yet more varied. Grimsby doesn’t have near neighbours to pull these people away if it gets it right. Lincoln takes a lot of Grimsby’s casual shoppers and that’s 30 miles away! It doesn’t have better shops it’s the environment. Grimsby's heritage and docks are its best asset.

I used Zizzi as an example but personally why not a version of Steels? Make it about the towns heritage not the same old bland town centre.

Grimsby needs to be far bolder in its ambition.
The underlying issue and remember I was born and raised there is that Grimsby is just not a nice enough place to attract people or business to. The run down impression is everywhere. Yes it’s never going to be York or Bath but unless you stop the rot at some point it will only get worse.
Grimsby has been dealt a sh*t  deal by the loss of fishing in Iceland etc but no one is going to help you. You have to help yourselves. The government will talk of levelling up and maybe throw a bone of £25m but they’ve been taking that in cuts for the last 10 years. Sorry but you’re on your own.

I mentioned the negative stuff above because I think Grimsby needs to take some bold decisions. The town can’t support two shopping areas so make a choice. Use the docks, use the football ground and concentrate the shopping in a single stronger offering.
Don’t build a soulless shopping centre. Make it interesting. Some docks elsewhere have a mixture of retail and restaurants along with housing which have given life back to a town centre.  The Dock is a huge potential asset on the doorstep to development.. ( ABP know this) It’s a once in a generation opportunity if that ground is ever moved.  The area needs to extract the best value not build a Glumford park.

With a nice environment, business will find it easier to attract workers and their families . Ask the hospital how hard it is to attract first class doctors? ( no disrespect to the present doctors and one is a good friend so inside info). They will struggle because the doctor’s families want to live in a nicer place such as Lincoln. Years ago I had family in Scunthorpe who travelled to Grimsby for the shopping experience as it was a nicer day out.. They don’t now. They didn’t always shop they wanted something to do and it was a nicer place to be. They would pay for parking still and buy lunch. It’s the environment.
My thoughts are to move our retailers ( yes some can’t move or will be duplicated). I don’t want to kill off the coffee shops and the niche businesses who are surviving. Give them the new outlets and encourage them. We don’t need more shops as such as we have too many but concentrate them in something fun and hopefully successful to be part of.  Add indoor water park next to a new fishing heritage centre, mini cinema complex, throw in some of the colleges food speciality departments. I”m not saying all good ideas just ideas.

I sound like I have a downer on the town I don’t. It gave me my chance in life and gave me my hard work but be nice values. I’m just conscious that when the town has to make some big calls the football ground and the docks would in my opinion be the best and biggest chance this town has to drag itself out of the mud and regenerate.

As for the MK dons ground. It’s again the concept of multi use and compact. Grimsby doesn’t need a large stadium it just needs to cater as others have said for maybe 8000 to 10000 with a bit of expansion. Too big a ground and you lose the intensity.
The other comment was correct on the 23000 it didn’t happen very often. Just fun when it did.

1. You have convinced me you are not a MK fan  

2. You make some very good points and I agree with a lot of them

3. I don't know if it is because I am getting older but (being a fellow exile) Grimsby (the town) seems to have deteriorated at an even faster rate just in the past ten years.

As we have a seaside resort in the summer and a football club in the winter with little overlap of their busiest periods, I would hope that a single parking scheme could serve both needs

Quoted from psgmariner

Having been on the docks recently I just can’t imagine people wanting to go there for leisure. Firstly you have to queue at the barrier to actually get in there and more importantly due to the many thriving businesses already there it stinks of fish. Unless you plan to move all the fish businesses I can’t imagine sipping an overpriced latte etc there.

Darn. I had forgotten the immoveable barrier. Disregard everything I said, Jackal.

So a £50-100m project will fall over because of a barrier
The docks are a mess I know you are right  but that’s the point and it’s an example of the whole area.  
Fish smell yes but look at Chatham .  Very expensive apartments on those docks and 100,000+  tons of household waste loaded on to ships next door.  
It’s how you manage the challenges .

I genuinely think this could be a huge opportunity for Grimsby and frankly there won’t be many.  

What is the alternative?  More donut housing plans and and empty heart filled with drugs and dereliction.  
That will be a long painful death.  

I’m not an architect and definitely don’t have any planning skill on such a scale but I think like the last poster. Being away you see the difference and it’s not good .  Other places have adapted.  It certainly won’t be easy.

I’m always proud to say I’m from Grimsby and a town fan.  Which being at Old Trafford raises sympathy smiles but also respect for loyalty to an old classic club.  

I want the town that gave me so much and I’m proud of to get a grip and act, not just talk about minor changes.  

Look at the column inches and frenzy over the toll bar roundabout !  Really ?? That’s the most important thing to be debating on the front pages?  ( waste of money I know) 😊  

PS .  The council needs to be skilled up for this.  

The barrier is there for a reason though. It’s ABP’s land and they quite rightly don’t just let any one in. The docks area can’t be an option for 365 day a year new stadium whilst it is owned and managed by ABP.