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Quoted from ginnywings

Fook me.

You're either stupid or on a wind up. Either way, carry on your merry way and I'll bow out.

Is that your argument? Some facts we don’t like to hear do we 🤣
Please do bow out you’re just a bandwagon monkey clapper.

Quoted from Humbercod

So much confusion going here Ginny I don’t know where to start, but here goes…
I am not and have never advocated an American health system!
No one has been arguing as far as I’m aware for the pros and cons of social democracy!
If you are that interested then go back a few pages and read the argument if you want to call it that, with regards to Socialism and this has led to even more confusion I hope to put to bed.

For the record I stand by my view that a country that aligns itself with socialism and identifys as socialism is a socialist country! The very credible world population review goes even further to say there is no criteria or official process for being named a socialist state… I even forwarded the link!
Even Investopedia another very credible resource lists North Korea not only as a socialist country but as a Marxist-Leninist socialist economy.

Now it doesn’t matter how much Mariner and his chums kick and scream that this is not socialism they are still defined as socialist States. They can argue and post about public ownership of the means of production blah blah blah.. but they are talking about socialism in it purest form totally hypothetical, we know that no country as ever adopted full socialism in its entirety and this has caused the confusion.

I will just add that the closest any country got to full socialism was the Soviet Union, and guess what they ended up with an Autocrat..fancy that! which seems to be the running theme because every full on socialist regime that springs to mind ends up going the same way.

The thought of you "putting confusion to bed" is hilarious, you are the most confused and befuddled poster on this forum. Marxist-Leninism is COMMUNISM. The clue is in the name, as Lenin was a self-identified communist. Furthermore, Marx's most famous work was "The COMMUNIST manifesto". It is an extreme far left political ideology right at the far end of the political spectrum of socialism which, as far as I can read on this forum, nobody supports or wants. It is what the right wing press want to make people believe all socialism is so that they see socialism as a dirty word. Evidently they've done a very comprehensive job on a particular section of society.

China is not an autocracy. Xi Jinping has engineered a position where his power is fairly entrenched but he does not make all the decisions alone like Kim Jong-Un  They are run by the CCP (Chinese COMMUNIST Party) in an an authoritarian one party state. But even then have been nothing like a true socialist state for at least two decades now allowing free market policies to help them undercut other countries in manufacturing. At the same time as growing their economy enormously, it also exploited their working class making the ruling class and those higher in society fabulously rich at their expense. Hardly pure socialism at work. Equally, Fidel Castro was a Leninist who implemented a planned economy. That is still at one extreme end of the spectrum of socialism  (communism) which you can't seem to grasp.

Chavez was an autocrat who tried to implement a socialist system. But just because one country has a crackpot dictator (although he was actually elected democratically multiple times) who makes a complete shitshow of running the country does not mean that fundamentally socialism is an "autocratic belief system". Autocracy and socialism clash as has been explained to you by multiple people. Again you use words you don't fully understand because you don't actually really understand much of what you write about. I suppose you can argue that would-be tyrants use populist socialist rhetoric to gather support from the working class and military in order to gain power and then abuse that power once in place but that is a separate argument which I feel certain you aren't capable of making coherently.

This whole discussion came about because I suggested Rick12 didn't properly understand what socialism is and has had his views clouded by what he reads and hears from the right wing press. If anything you've proved what a good job they have done because you seem totally incapable of understanding what a twisted and distorted view you have despite it being spelled out for you. I suppose if I were to be kind I could agree that you understand very vaguely what one extreme version of socialism is but then equally you're still claiming North Korea to be socialist which is ludicrous and so loses you any credibility. You're either a very, very good WUM or one of the most close-minded and simple people I've ever come across. I sincerely hope it's the former but I fear it's the latter and because of that there's really no point engaging in these discussions any more.

Quoted from mariner91

The thought of you "putting confusion to bed" is hilarious, you are the most confused and befuddled poster on this forum. Marxist-Leninism is COMMUNISM. The clue is in the name, as Lenin was a self-identified communist. Furthermore, Marx's most famous work was "The COMMUNIST manifesto". It is an extreme far left political ideology right at the far end of the political spectrum of socialism which, as far as I can read on this forum, nobody supports or wants. It is what the right wing press want to make people believe all socialism is so that they see socialism as a dirty word. Evidently they've done a very comprehensive job on a particular section of society.

Talk about going off on a tangent we didn’t even discuss (and I don’t want to thanks) communism v socialism!
What’s hilarious is that you’re not even arguing with me now, the paragraph you highlighted is from 2 highly respected and credible sources, I mean come on man talk about being stubborn, you’re the comical Ali of the fishy😂

Quoted Text

China is not an autocracy. Xi Jinping has engineered a position where his power is fairly entrenched but he does not make all the decisions alone like Kim Jong-Un  They are run by the CCP (Chinese COMMUNIST Party) in an an authoritarian one party state. But even then have been nothing like a true socialist state for at least two decades now allowing free market policies to help them undercut other countries in manufacturing. At the same time as growing their economy enormously, it also exploited their working class making the ruling class and those higher in society fabulously rich at their expense. Hardly pure socialism at work. Equally, Fidel Castro was a Leninist who implemented a planned economy. That is still at one extreme end of the spectrum of socialism  (communism) which you can't seem to grasp.

I didn’t even say that China was an autocracy! But I love how YOU say it isn’t (I really hope you’re not a school teacher) I think it would do you the world of good if you could gain an understanding of the word interpretation!

Quoted Text

Chavez was an autocrat who tried to implement a socialist system. But just because one country has a crackpot dictator (although he was actually elected democratically multiple times) who makes a complete shitshow of running the country does not mean that fundamentally socialism is an "autocratic belief system". Autocracy and socialism clash as has been explained to you by multiple people. Again you use words you don't fully understand because you don't actually really understand much of what you write about. I suppose you can argue that would-be tyrants use populist socialist rhetoric to gather support from the working class and military in order to gain power and then abuse that power once in place but that is a separate argument which I feel certain you aren't capable of making coherently.

Ah…Fundamentally!!  there’s the key maybe there is some hope for you after all, so can you now finally accept that a country like Venezuela an autocracy under Chavez was defined as a socialist state?

Quoted Text

]This whole discussion came about because I suggested Rick12 didn't properly understand what socialism is and has had his views clouded by what he reads and hears from the right wing press. If anything you've proved what a good job they have done because you seem totally incapable of understanding what a twisted and distorted view you have despite it being spelled out for you. I suppose if I were to be kind I could agree that you understand very vaguely what one extreme version of socialism is but then equally you're still claiming North Korea to be socialist which is ludicrous and so loses you any credibility. You're either a very, very good WUM or one of the most close-minded and simple people I've ever come across. I sincerely hope it's the former but I fear it's the latter and because of that there's really no point engaging in these discussions any more.

Again you arrogance is staggering! Do you even know anything about Rick personally to patronise him in such way?
Yes I am claiming North Korea to be a socialist state because that’s how they define themselves, and this is how they have become to be  universally recognised, fundamentally obviously not but fundamentally we have never had a socialist country.

The UK after the war was socialist and this is still an acceptable term to use even though by your own logic not fundamentally, not in the true meaning of the term anyway, you are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Quoted from Humbercod

I didn’t even say that China was an autocracy! But I love how YOU say it isn’t (I really hope you’re not a school teacher) I think it would do you the world of good if you could gain an understanding of the word interpretation!

Quoted from Humbercod

So was Venezuela and Cuba never run by an Autocrat then? What about Xi Jinping a self appointed Autocrat or maybe these socialist by definition country’s are not socialist country’s🙄

intercourse me you're thick.

Quoted from mariner91

intercourse me you're thick.

XI Jinping SELF APPOINTED 😂

Keep up with the insults that’s all you’ve got left warrior😂

You genuinely do not know what words mean. Literally all of your arguments have been taken apart by various people and you spout nonsensical gibberish in return using words you don’t understand and contradicting yourself regularly. I sincerely hope you’re on a wind up because nobody can be this stupid. I’m really not going to waste any more time on this, I’d get a more reasoned and knowledgable discussion if I were to debate the merits of grammar schools with the dog.

Quoted from mariner91

You genuinely do not know what words mean. Literally all of your arguments have been taken apart by various people and you spout nonsensical gibberish in return using words you don’t understand and contradicting yourself regularly. I sincerely hope you’re on a wind up because nobody can be this stupid. I’m really not going to waste any more time on this, I’d get a more reasoned and knowledgable discussion if I were to debate the merits of grammar schools with the dog.

I will take this as your white Flag thanks for the entertainment😂

Anyyyywayyyyy......

Back to P.M.......

Who do we think will be or who do we want out of who is left in the running?

Quoted from moosey_club

Anyyyywayyyyy......

Back to P.M.......

Who do we think will be or who do we want out of who is left in the running?

The next PM is Liz Truss.

What a time to be alive.