Haven't seen it but looks like they haven't held back.
THE SCOTSMAN "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have plunged the monarchy into a crisis, accusing an unnamed royal of racism, suggesting the family were jealous of Meghan, and revealing that she contemplated taking her own life while pregnant."
When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?”
I haven't seen it and to be honest I won't. It reminds me of his great ( or is it great, great ) uncle and Mrs Simpson. I do wonder what Harry's ex comrades in the services think of him. I believe they toast Queen and country and refer to carrying out their duty.
To me Harry's done an Edward 8th, to hell with the country as long as I'm alright.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I haven't seen it and to be honest I won't. It reminds me of his great ( or is it great, great ) uncle and Mrs Simpson. I do wonder what Harry's ex comrades in the services think of him. I believe they toast Queen and country and refer to carrying out their duty.
To me Harry's done an Edward 8th, to hell with the country as long as I'm alright.
He is in love DB people do strange things when in love.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
He is in love DB people do strange things when in love.
Protecting and standing up for his wife is strange? The Royal Family are past their sell by date and should end with the Queen, His father not taking Harry's calls seems pretty indefensible, some worried about how dark the baby might be and little or no concern about Megan's mental issues while shielding Andrew shows how out of touch they are
If your uncle was a nonce, your dad and nan were very close with the most prolific nonce (and suspected necrophiliac) the country had produced, and your nephew was named after yet another nonce from your family tree you’d probably be advised to distance yourself from the family.
I mean they had his mother killed, they protected and contour to do so, a nonce. His granny had close ties to a sex offender, the countless other things within the firm...I think we’d all want to distance ourselves...
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
Protecting and standing up for his wife is strange? The Royal Family are past their sell by date and should end with the Queen, His father not taking Harry's calls seems pretty indefensible, some worried about how dark the baby might be and little or no concern about Megan's mental issues while shielding Andrew shows how out of touch they are
Harry has done exactly as Edward 8th. He has turned his back on his family, his country and his comrades in the services. He choose to leave our country to go across the pond with his actress wife. She seems to put on a good show for the millions they are raking in.
He could have stayed here and stand up for his wife, but choose to run away.
At the end of the day on a thread like this you are either for or against the monarchy.
Long live the Queen and our Monarchs after her.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
No I definitely meant the Royal Family. They should've privatised the Royal Family years ago. Why should the public pay for their upkeep when McDonald's would love to have their logos slapped all over their palaces for a premium amount?
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
Harry has done exactly as Edward 8th. He has turned his back on his family, his country and his comrades in the services. He choose to leave our country to go across the pond with his actress wife. She seems to put on a good show for the millions they are raking in.
He could have stayed here and stand up for his wife, but choose to run away.
At the end of the day on a thread like this you are either for or against the monarchy.
Long live the Queen and our Monarchs after her.
No he has not, Edward 8th was King and knew the rules at the time. Charles who will be the next King has married a divorced woman so is perhaps a closer example than Harry who was never going to be King. Edward 8th was a nazi sympathiser who was friendly with Hitler, Harry fought on the front line in Afghanistan (not his fault it was an illegal war) The least he should expect is for the Queen to stand up and put false stories right rather let everyone believe the opposite of the truth in the incident between her and Kate. As Meghan said they were quite happy to defend Katewith a lie rather than back her with the truth
Just all very sad TBH. Terrible how it is being played out in public. Tabloids must be loving it.
"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
Protecting and standing up for his wife is strange? The Royal Family are past their sell by date and should end with the Queen, His father not taking Harry's calls seems pretty indefensible, some worried about how dark the baby might be and little or no concern about Megan's mental issues while shielding Andrew shows how out of touch they are
I would imagine his father feels pretty badly treated too considering the emotional and moral support he has given, not to mention the Bank Of Dad that got them to Frogmore and then out of the country.
I can’t see why the monarchy should end with the Queen either. Yes it should be pruned right back and Charles is on record to that effect. There are people in the family whose conduct has been indefensible but I know families in Grimsby who have some pretty horrible black sheep. I don’t think that in itself affects the role of the monarchy as non-political ceremonial representative of the state whose job is to warn and advise and encourage. The idea of someone like Trump being the Head Of State for X years appals me. If Charles steps outside of the role the Queen has taken with his ultra-woke ideas then I might agree about getting rid. William appears to have more sense. But in any case the U.K. does not have the same institutions as countries where they have a political head of state and having the jobs separated has too many advantages to be destroyed just because some people cannot see past the personalities of individuals who were born into something.
As far as H&M are concerned, they have shot themselves in the foot, burned their bridges and any other metaphor for being silly bu99ers. Much of what they say is so clearly untrue it is laughable but it is meant for an American audience. The problem for them now is that they have alienated a host of people who thought they were OK but now find they are a pair of middle aged wannabe celebs badmouthing Harry’s family. What effect this has on their reception on a possible visit to the U.K. remains to be seen but I fear it will not be very welcoming.
Some compare them with the Edward VII and Mrs Simpson but that isn’t right. He was the King, Harry is much lower down the pecking order and that seems to have rankled with MM who felt she should be treated as equal to the Wessexes. She expected to be a Princess and she expected to use the resources that would bring to promote her own agenda. Mrs S was never about doing that. Their only similarity is the way they control their men. Harry was born into something he doesn’t like but he did like the privileges. We might have admired Harry if he had given it all up for love and moved to the US with no RF financial support. But he wants it all. To sit there moaning he had to use his mother’s inheritance of £15m after getting another small fortune from his father does stick in the craw.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Close to royal circles as well as knowing everything else about anything. Is there nothing the old white man on a lower league football forum doesn’t know?
Just all very sad TBH. Terrible how it is being played out in public. Tabloids must be loving it.
We’re paying for it we may as well have a little entertainment out of them, It is sad it is being played out in the toxic tabloid press, but the way they have behaved should be highlighted, if we want a racist hypocritical family to represent Britain let’s have their behaviour out in the open
I would like to be able to say something meaningful and insightful about the whole kerfuffle, but I simply don't give enough of a shite to bother wasting 5 minutes thinking about it. Possibly the least important thing occurring in the world at present.
We’re paying for it we may as well have a little entertainment out of them, It is sad it is being played out in the toxic tabloid press, but the way they have behaved should be highlighted, if we want a racist hypocritical family to represent Britain let’s have their behaviour out in the open
Agree......just hope Andrew's past eventually catches up with him. Doubt it though.
"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
Close to royal circles as well as knowing everything else about anything. Is there nothing the old white man on a lower league football forum doesn’t know?
😂 To be fair I heard similar from my Mum yesterday. It's incredible how random people with no connections to any of the circus seem to know the inner most thoughts and motivations of these people and then present their in depth analysis to people who mostly don't really care. It's like an episode of Loose Women.
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
I would like to be able to say something meaningful and insightful about the whole kerfuffle, but I simply don't give enough of a shite to bother wasting 5 minutes thinking about it. Possibly the least important thing occurring in the world at present.
I dunno, I am very much against the monarchy and usually can't be doing with the media circus about a family I don't know and couldn't give two shits about.
But this is quite big if you look past the faux-offence from the Royalists. It is starkly exposing the Royal Family and will get the monarchy debate to the forefront again at least. Think it'll be interesting to see if support for getting rid grows.
Harry has done exactly as Edward 8th. He has turned his back on his family, his country and his comrades in the services. He choose to leave our country to go across the pond with his actress wife. She seems to put on a good show for the millions they are raking in.
He could have stayed here and stand up for his wife, but choose to run away.
At the end of the day on a thread like this you are either for or against the monarchy.
Close to royal circles as well as knowing everything else about anything. Is there nothing the old white man on a lower league football forum doesn’t know?
No magic to it. Just better at disseminating truth from fiction.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
I wish Harry and Megan a long and happy life together, but why didn't they stay here at Frogmore House. They didn't have to go to Canada and now USA. They didn't have to go on a talk show knowing it would be shown worldwide.
This stunt is all about making money for them. They decided to uproot across the pond presumably because Megan wanted to. According to some reports she has hardly seen her father or other siblings, so it's not as if she is missing her family.
If Harry wanted out, great I'm happy and pleased for him. If he no longer wants to be apart of the royal family it's fine with me that's his choice and I respect him for it.
There are many countries where they could have gone to and lived a quite life together with Archie. They choose the USA knowing they would be above the status of "A" listers.
With regard to Royalty being head of state, the alternative is a Republic with a President. The ex french one, Sarkozy, is serving a jail sentence. Then we have Trump who is reported, amongst many other things, of telling the population to drink bleach to kill covid! Truth or not he is a buffoon.
We are far better off with the Royal family who are more accountable to us now than before. Many on here were not born when the Queen was doing her duty during the WW2 helping the country against the Nazi's. The Duke also served in the Navy.
The Royals have not always been perfect and nobody is. Financially it is reported that Royalty bring in more money to the country than what we pay them.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
The Duke of Sussex has said racism from the tabloid press was a large part of the reason why they left the UK. So why the bloody hell jump into shark infested waters of the American press.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Iam a big royalist so I was sad Meghan and Harry left the UK for Canada.
Despite problems which should have been sorted in the past and now the royals stand for identity in the wake of growing new voices eg the media who often shapes public opinion and are mainly interested in selling papers. Though I still think it was wrong England gave up its Catholic status when Henry the 8th came to power due to him not being able to get a divorce mainly due to his wife not being able to bear him a son and lust for other women and founded his own church .
I think Meghan knew what she was getting herself in for when she married Harry ie marrying into tradition and should have accepted there would be challenges. Like Kate Middleton should have accepted her role and overrode the difficulties and battled any problems she was facing .
To me being an actor and the often glitzy life that comes with that I had some reservations about what Meghan really wanted. Was it her own aggrandisement or for the true love of Harry which I doubt. Hence had Harry been a dustbin man Iam almost certain she wouldn't have touched him.
Huge shame for me that the royal family have had this further debacle eg Meghan and Harry leaving the Uk and I feel especially for the Queen.
The Royals have not always been perfect and nobody is.
'Not perfect' makes it sound as if they have a bit of a temper, or like a few too many beers, or are a bit flawed in a minor way.
I'd say covering up for a nonce member of your family is not minor. As with most people I believe nonces should be locked up for a long time and that is that same whether they are a bloke a few streets down or a member of the Royal family.
Not to mention the years of colonial history, using their status to lobby parliament for favourable laws, blood thirsty fox hunting etc. etc.
And the fact the extended Royal family own vast swathes of England and people have to rent land off them. Feudalism alive and well.
I haven't seen it and to be honest I won't. It reminds me of his great ( or is it great, great ) uncle and Mrs Simpson. I do wonder what Harry's ex comrades in the services think of him. I believe they toast Queen and country and refer to carrying out their duty.
To me Harry's done an Edward 8th, to hell with the country as long as I'm alright.
Difference being Eward and his wife kept a dignified silence for the rest of their lives. It took these two spoilt brats less than a year to throw the Monarchy under a bus.
Difference being Eward and his wife kept a dignified silence for the rest of their lives. It took these two spoilt brats less than a year to throw the Monarchy under a bus.
At least Harry has the option open of coming back to the UK . Hope they prove me wrong but I have my doubts on whether this marriage will last. Its a shame as I saw the Harry/Meghan wedding and it was beautiful. Sermon by the bishop was inspiring as well.
Iam a big royalist so I was sad Meghan and Harry left the UK for Canada.
Despite problems which should have been sorted in the past and now the royals stand for identity in the wake of growing new voices eg the media who often shapes public opinion and are mainly interested in selling papers. Though I still think it was wrong England gave up its Catholic status when Henry the 8th came to power due to him not being able to get a divorce mainly due to his wife not being able to bear him a son and lust for other women and founded his own church .
I think Meghan knew what she was getting herself in for when she married Harry ie marrying into tradition and should have accepted there would be challenges. Like Kate Middleton should have accepted her role and overrode the difficulties and battled any problems she was facing .
To me being an actor and the often glitzy life that comes with that I had some reservations about what Meghan really wanted. Was it her own aggrandisement or for the true love of Harry which I doubt. Hence had Harry been a dustbin man Iam almost certain she wouldn't have touched him.
Huge shame for me that the royal family have had this further debacle eg Meghan and Harry leaving the Uk and I feel especially for the Queen.
Totally agree with you. Another point with Megan was she didn't realise she had to curtsy to the Queen, doesn't LaLa land have Google. Has she never seen People curtsy or bow to Royalty in any country. She isn't naïve and knows exactly what she is doing.
It's also interesting to see the main reason for leaving, press racism, is not mentioned in the newspaper headlines.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
'Not perfect' makes it sound as if they have a bit of a temper, or like a few too many beers, or are a bit flawed in a minor way.
I'd say covering up for a nonce member of your family is not minor. As with most people I believe nonces should be locked up for a long time and that is that same whether they are a bloke a few streets down or a member of the Royal family.
Not to mention the years of colonial history, using their status to lobby parliament for favourable laws, blood thirsty fox hunting etc. etc.
And the fact the extended Royal family own vast swathes of England and people have to rent land off them. Feudalism alive and well.
Get em gone.
and what would you do with Presidents like the Criminal Sarkozy and Trump !!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Totally agree with you. Another point with Megan was she didn't realise she had to curtsy to the Queen, doesn't LaLa land have Google. Has she never seen People curtsy or bow to Royalty in any country. She isn't naïve and knows exactly what she is doing.
It's also interesting to see the main reason for leaving, press racism, is not mentioned in the newspaper headlines.
I think its challenges DB. She needs to fight injustices and not take the easy way out and leave. Reminds me a bit of sport as well eg boxing. When things get tough do you quit or carry on fighting. Tyson Fury and others have faced racist problems in the past but keep fighting and try to prevail .
Nice to see your pro royalist like me. Iam surprised as well by some of the anti royal sentiment on here . My own background having done some research recently is mainly English/Latin with a bit of German and Irish thrown in. Its like the queen she has a multitude of foreign blood in her apart from English notably German and a bit of Spanish as well. Likewise Ive seen the Queen mum close up and family members have met her so I feel a affiliation to the royals .Furthermore I like the Queens love for Jesus in an age which is becoming more and more secular.
and what would you do with Presidents like the Criminal Sarkozy and Trump !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Both were voted out of office , which is exactly the point of Democracy, there is no choice to vote out the suspected nonce or any racists, I cannot believe they still expect people to courtesy or bow and scrape in this age. Keep tugging the forelock !!
I couldn’t give a toss what those two do. Much the same as I couldn’t care less what the royal family do (apart from the obvious). None of them have any bearing on me and my life whatsoever.
The reaction from fully grown adults to two fully grown adults taking the choices they have is astonishing to me. Even more so the people that watch it-my better half included.
Each to their own of course!
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
'Not perfect' makes it sound as if they have a bit of a temper, or like a few too many beers, or are a bit flawed in a minor way.
I'd say covering up for a nonce member of your family is not minor. As with most people I believe nonces should be locked up for a long time and that is that same whether they are a bloke a few streets down or a member of the Royal family.
Not to mention the years of colonial history, using their status to lobby parliament for favourable laws, blood thirsty fox hunting etc. etc.
And the fact the extended Royal family own vast swathes of England and people have to rent land off them. Feudalism alive and well.
Get em gone.
You are entitled of course to ignore the WWF work and Duke Of Edinburgh Awards of Philip and Charles with the Prince’s Trust for example, the organic gardens, climate warnings and so on that actually have the potential to make him more unpopular than anything he did romping with Camilla? The support Anne gives to innumerable charities each year. And the lobbying the Queen does on behalf of Commonwealth aid that she was prepared to hand over to Harry. All things that have gone on for decades. OK let’s do that.
By all means take away the Cornwall estates and the rest. Any money they earn goes back in the kitty somewhere but let’s sell ‘em off. Who to? Probably some US or Chinese business or a Saudi sheik free to charge whatever they want to tenants. By all means sell off Sandringham, , Windsor and the rest of the buildings. Who would want them? Same sort of buyers? Turn ‘em into flats? Knock ‘em down? The tourist industry might have a word or two to say about that. You have to think forward.
Funnily enough despite all this, I’m no great royalist, though I am one of the few posters who can remember George VI and the affection people felt for him after the war. Today I’d have some of the RF chucked out and some others jailed. However a lot of people get confused between the royal family, which is human and the monarchy, which is not. There is a great sense of better the devil you know about the latter..
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
No mariner backed up by scientific facts. If a child doesn't get love in the catchment age of roughly 0-11 years children's brains will forever be impaired. Likewise as Mother Theresa said a lot of the worlds problems are caused by lack of love. Similarly I can attest to this in my work with youth offending. A lot of problems are caused by lack of genuine parental love in a child's formative years. Look at the work the Salvation army does as well with a lot of the homeless and drug addicts etc . If it wasn't for organisations like these founded on Jesus's guiding principles of love noone would care and many in the words of users themselves who have benefited from the Salvation army would have just committed suicide.
The monarchy is a deeply political entity and has lobbied the govt continually to increase their own wealth, stolen in large part over centuries, and the current parasite in chief saw fit to get involved in the 2014 Indyref.
It’s a sick anachronism that has no place in a supposedly progressive society.
I couldn’t give a toss what those two do. Much the same as I couldn’t care less what the royal family do (apart from the obvious). None of them have any bearing on me and my life whatsoever.
The reaction from fully grown adults to two fully grown adults taking the choices they have is astonishing to me. Even more so the people that watch it-my better half included.
Each to their own of course!
Perhaps that's how it should be, however they are heads of state not only of this country but the Commonwealth, they are being paid for by us taxpayers, we cannot pretend they shouldn't be held up to scrutiny , with privilege must come responsibility, they are not just another couple, .it is affecting how the world sees this country, the image and soft power of this country relies on how we are perceived and like it not out our head of state and the respect and good will she has generated over the years is very fragile at the moment. To not deal with these accusations and revelations is not an option for them, if the revelations had not been so shocking and at so far at odds to the image they tried to convey of a caring multicultural family they could try and brush it aside. We seem to see the same middle age white men and women rolled out to pretend there isn't institutional racism in the Uper classes of the UK
No mariner backed up by scientific facts. If a child doesn't get love in the catchment age of roughly 0-11 years children's brains will forever be impaired. Likewise as Mother Theresa said a lot of the worlds problems are caused by lack of love. Similarly I can attest to this in my work with youth offending. A lot of problems are caused by lack of genuine parental love in a child's formative years. Look at the work the Salvation army does as well with a lot of the homeless and drug addicts etc . If it wasn't for organisations like these founded on Jesus's guiding principles of love noone would care and many in the words of users themselves who have benefited from the Salvation army would have just committed suicide.
Most people give love to their children without the need to bring JC into it, it’s called basic human nature.
Most people give love to their children without the need to bring JC into it, it’s called basic human nature.
I agree Humbercod but sometimes in my experience from working with troubled youth and knowing ex criminals its only the love of Jesus that has saved people from self arm/further degeneration into the abyss and suicide.
The monarchy is a deeply political entity and has lobbied the govt continually to increase their own wealth, stolen in large part over centuries, and the current parasite in chief saw fit to get involved in the 2014 Indyref.
It’s a sick anachronism that has no place in a supposedly progressive society.
That’s fine Ska, quite a number would agree with you and I would not dispute the centuries and could add some more sins to the pile. But as I said, if you want rid it’s money where your mouth is time and I don’t just mean let’s have an elected head of state. You have to invent whole new ways of doing things plus the practicalities of the royal lands and buildings that are acceptable to a goodly majority of the public.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
That’s fine Ska, quite a number would agree with you and I would not dispute the centuries and could add some more sins to the pile. But as I said, if you want rid it’s money where your mouth is time and I don’t just mean let’s have an elected head of state. You have to invent whole new ways of doing things plus the practicalities of the royal lands and buildings that are acceptable to a goodly majority of the public.
These are crown lands and should become public access places similar to national parks the buildings should go to the national trust
Both were voted out of office , which is exactly the point of Democracy, there is no choice to vote out the suspected nonce or any racists, I cannot believe they still expect people to courtesy or bow and scrape in this age. Keep tugging the forelock !!
They were both voted in office and had a very good hidden dark side which came out during and after they left office. We know what we have with Royalty and I believe Charles, when king, wants to stream line it.
I recall a true story of American tourists asking this old lady and young man if they had seen the Queen. The old lady said hadn't but thought the young man had. The tourists didn't recognise the Queen nor did she ask them to courtesy or bow and scrape. The Queen lives in this age and knows how to act.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
The monarchy is a deeply political entity and has lobbied the govt continually to increase their own wealth, stolen in large part over centuries, and the current parasite in chief saw fit to get involved in the 2014 Indyref.
It’s a sick anachronism that has no place in a supposedly progressive society.
I think that you will find that the monarchy has progressed more than you think over the years otherwise, for your comments, your head would no longer be attached to your body.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Most people give love to their children without the need to bring JC into it, it’s called basic human nature.
And that is why Jesus is needed more than ever. While most people give love to their children their are many that don't, so turning to Jesus is better than crime and drugs.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
and what would you do with Presidents like the Criminal Sarkozy and Trump !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Completely different set-up in those countries. In the US and France the president is head of government. Here if we got rid of the royals we could have a president who was head of state, but not head of government. You never hear a peep about presidents of other European countries. They just quietly get on with the role and are pretty much above politics in any day-to-day sense.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Iam a big royalist so I was sad Meghan and Harry left the UK for Canada.
Despite problems which should have been sorted in the past and now the royals stand for identity in the wake of growing new voices eg the media who often shapes public opinion and are mainly interested in selling papers. Though I still think it was wrong England gave up its Catholic status when Henry the 8th came to power due to him not being able to get a divorce mainly due to his wife not being able to bear him a son and lust for other women and founded his own church .
I think Meghan knew what she was getting herself in for when she married Harry ie marrying into tradition and should have accepted there would be challenges. Like Kate Middleton should have accepted her role and overrode the difficulties and battled any problems she was facing .
To me being an actor and the often glitzy life that comes with that I had some reservations about what Meghan really wanted. Was it her own aggrandisement or for the true love of Harry which I doubt. Hence had Harry been a dustbin man Iam almost certain she wouldn't have touched him.
Huge shame for me that the royal family have had this further debacle eg Meghan and Harry leaving the Uk and I feel especially for the Queen.
Henry had no other option if he didn't want to risk plunging the country into civil war again on his death. His father came to the throne after decades of dynastic wars. The Pope could have easily found a way round the marriage to Catherine and annulled it, but Spain had more of a say. Or it could have given him a slap on the wrist, made him ask for forgiveness on bended knee, anything, but something short of excommunication. That would have left England a catholic country - bear in mind it was the Pope who gave Henry the title "Defender of the Faith" for ruthlessly hunting down and killing that cleric who's only crime was translating the bible into English, something which the Church were dead against. Realpolitik got in the way. So Henry needed to break with the church to get divorced to give himself another chance to get a male heir. Not nice but neither was war.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Henry had no other option if he didn't want to risk plunging the country into civil war again on his death. His father came to the throne after decades of dynastic wars. The Pope could have easily found a way round the marriage to Catherine and annulled it, but Spain had more of a say. Or it could have given him a slap on the wrist, made him ask for forgiveness on bended knee, anything, but something short of excommunication. That would have left England a catholic country - bear in mind it was the Pope who gave Henry the title "Defender of the Faith" for ruthlessly hunting down and killing that cleric who's only crime was translating the bible into English, something which the Church were dead against. Realpolitik got in the way. So Henry needed to break with the church to get divorced to give himself another chance to get a male heir. Not nice but neither was war.
Appreciate the input Kingston but the mainstay was the Catholic church at that time believed in marriage for life and didnt agree with or support divorce. Saying that those that were widowed were allowed to remarry.
That’s fine Ska, quite a number would agree with you and I would not dispute the centuries and could add some more sins to the pile. But as I said, if you want rid it’s money where your mouth is time and I don’t just mean let’s have an elected head of state. You have to invent whole new ways of doing things plus the practicalities of the royal lands and buildings that are acceptable to a goodly majority of the public.
I don’t think it’s beyond the collective brainpower of our great nation to work out what to do with the 23 current royal residences and their grounds, much less replacing a wizened old bint good only for having her arris licked by various dignitaries at state banquets. Her contribution to the legislature could be replaced with a 99p rubber stamp.
Let’s not even get into the Crown Estates and their £14bn property portfolio, the hundreds of thousands of acres of agricultural and mining land they “own” as well as the sea beds and what may lie beneath them.
Mass social housing, rewilding or reforestation, a massive Wetherspoons at Buck House, all things that could benefit the public practically and financially much more than having them as the sole preserve of a family of inbreds in a gilded cage.
Appreciate the input Kingston but the mainstay was the Catholic church at that time believed in marriage for life and didnt agree with or support divorce. Saying that those that were widowed were allowed to remarry.
The Catholic Church believed in whatever it wanted, which at the time was what the Spanish wanted. The Catholic church held this country back as can be witnessed by the rise of England to being a world superpower (at that time) within less than 100 years of the dissolution of the Catholic church in this country. Despite the Catholic church being behind plots to overthrow the government/monarch. It wasn't the mainstay, it was the only option for an uneducated populace who were kept in their place by the threat of excommunication and the powers at the time were quite happy to maintain control until such time as the Catholic Church didn't allow them to do what they wanted.
And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot. No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all. All that was really there was still more misery
The Catholic Church believed in whatever it wanted, which at the time was what the Spanish wanted.
I think the essence of the Catholic church has always been though to keep to the essential message of Jesus though human construct has at times impinged on this view . Personally I would have still preferred this country to remain Catholic as opposed to creating the Church of England something which is only recognised in England and some parts of continental Europe. Just recently I saw a excellent dvd of Pope Francis titled a man of his word released in 2018. I get the feel he is one of the best popes the Catholic church has had and from reading around even atheists have been drawn in by his warmth.
As I have said I am a Christian and find many of the things that the C of E and Catholics depressing. Ska denounces Royalty quoting the values of their estates. Church's also have similar valuable estates etc. and sit on the money while professing to want to help the poor.
Royalty does give money back to the state and is responsible for many 1,000's of tourists coming to the country every year. (covid excluded)
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
As I have said I am a Christian and find many of the things that the C of E and Catholics depressing. Ska denounces Royalty quoting the values of their estates. Church's also have similar valuable estates etc. and sit on the money while professing to want to help the poor.
Please, one set of child molestors at a time, I can’t keep up.
I don’t think it’s beyond the collective brainpower of our great nation to work out what to do with the 23 current royal residences and their grounds, much less replacing a wizened old bint good only for having her arris licked by various dignitaries at state banquets. Her contribution to the legislature could be replaced with a 99p rubber stamp.
Let’s not even get into the Crown Estates and their £14bn property portfolio, the hundreds of thousands of acres of agricultural and mining land they “own” as well as the sea beds and what may lie beneath them.
Mass social housing, rewilding or reforestation, a massive Wetherspoons at Buck House, all things that could benefit the public practically and financially much more than having them as the sole preserve of a family of inbreds in a gilded cage.
Sounds like you are making an early bid for President!
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Please, one set of child molestors at a time, I can’t keep up.
A very small fraction of Catholic priests have engaged in molesting children and the ones that do aren't priests in soul anyway.
It's like in any walk of life however moral it may seem be it priests, judges,nurses or teachers you are going to get some that are not true to the cause.
Talk to one of the Irish travellers that I know and how much one priest in particular has healed decades of hurt/problem behaviour which no psychologist could ever heal whilst in and outside of prison.
A very small fraction of Catholic priests have engaged in molesting children and the ones that do aren't priests in soul anyway.
It's like in any walk of life however moral it may seem be it priests, judges,nurses or teachers you are going to get some that are not true to the cause.
Talk to one of the Irish travellers that I know and how much one priest in particular has healed decades of hurt/problem behaviour which no psychologist could ever heal whilst in and outside of prison.
How many are a small percentage? Will you defend the actions of nuns in Ireland too? However few it was it was quite deliberately covered up from priests to archbishops to the pope. A quick confession and back to business as usual in a new parish as long as there is no bad publicity
How many are a small percentage? Will you defend the actions of nuns in Ireland too? However few it was it was quite deliberately covered up from priests to archbishops to the pope. A quick confession and back to business as usual in a new parish as long as there is no bad publicity
2% .Again though some priests particular in Ireland from what I know were only doing it for monetary gains. The ones that cover things up aren't true to the faith or their vocation. Interviews have touched on this as well. Aborigine children cited some priests abused them whereas others eg nuns had a heart of gold. True defenders of the faith.
I agree there were cover ups. Not true to the faith. Pope Francis is coming down strong on sexual misconduct though.
2% .Again though some priests particular in Ireland from what I know were only doing it for monetary gains. The ones that cover things up aren't true to the faith or their vocation. Interviews have touched on this as well. Aborigine children cited some priests abused them whereas others eg nuns had a heart of gold. True defenders of the faith.
I agree there were cover ups. Not true to the faith. Pope Francis is coming down strong on sexual misconduct though.
Are you serious? You can't just dismiss the misdemeanours of these members of the catholic faith because they were doing it for monetary gains, which actually makes it even worse, or that these people aren't true to the faith. Yet these nuns are great because they didn't blow some aborigine kids didgeridoo. Thing is I think the aborigine kids were far better off when they had dreamtime and their ancestors to worship, not some blokes in dresses ranting on about God and some dude from some place they've no idea of.
And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot. No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all. All that was really there was still more misery
Are you serious? You can't just dismiss the misdemeanours of these members of the catholic faith because they were doing it for monetary gains, which actually makes it even worse, or that these people aren't true to the faith. Yet these nuns are great because they didn't blow some aborigine kids didgeridoo. Thing is I think the aborigine kids were far better off when they had dreamtime and their ancestors to worship, not some blokes in dresses ranting on about God and some dude from some place they've no idea of.
Your missing the point. A percentage joined the priesthood because it was a stable profession with board/loggings and personal expenses at a time when money was tight in parts of Ireland. Money was the main passion not Jesus.
I agree ethnic cultures should have been respected and the Catholic faith not enforced on them.
As for the genuine nuns its pure kindness and love that they showed to these children mimicking qualities Jesus had in abundance.
Religion in some form since man evolved has always been there. Its always been a battleground though between differing ideologies on whose is the most truthful religion. Islam/Christianity and differing brands of that/Hindus/Sikhs/Muslims. We still see it in the world today.
I still feel the Catholic religion is the biggest brand of Christianity because it tried to keep to the original sayings/ideology's of Jesus. Since the time of Jesus dying there were heretics and the like trying to bend the original sayings. The catholic faith has always tried to stay true to that in spite of constant battles throughout history and even today.
I don’t remember the bit when Jesus said you mustn’t wear a French Letter on your wotsit. The Catholic Church must have added that to the rules later (I nearly wrote slipped it in but I know you lot would misconstrue it).
I don’t believe that there is an instruction against divorce either in the NT. And Jews are allowed to get divorced, as are Muslims, so I doubt there is a clear law in the OT either. So possibly another rule invented by the Church.
Then there was the rule that banned priests from marrying, except that the Church didn’t apply it for the first millennium of its existence. Did they forget that law or was it just something they came up with later to save money on stipends, not having to support Mrs Priest and all the little Priestlets any more? I’d imagine that worked out well turning their minds away from filthy business like sex, and these urges didn’t come to the surface in all sorts of unwelcome ways down the succeeding centuries.
It’s a good job the Church kept to the strict law that ‘thou shalt not kill’. Consistently applying it down the ages, to protect foetuses created by acts of rape. We’ll overlook how ‘consistently’ they applied the imperative not to kill in the Middle Ages and Counter-Reformation. You know when they followed the little known sub-clause of the Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill, except those heathenbastards, and those wayward lost souls the Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Proddy heretics and Jews, even though we are Jews writing down this law a long time before any of the other lot appear”. And lest we forget, sub-clause “(b)(iii) always allowing that fellow Catholics may be killed insofar as they are fighting for, or are subjects of, states that the Papal States are, at war with from time to time”.
Consistently inconsistent in the application of the Law.
(What makes you think I’m trying to avoid the Harry and Meghan kerfuffle).
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
I mean having listened to several Italian friends and watched/read plenty of stuff, much like any large organisation, Catholicism doesn’t just stop at paedophilia.
It’s not that long ago that the Vatican were involved in some extremely shady business dealings in Rome linked to land, cash and the constant fight for power.
We all know that fundamentally, religion in any guise was created to control the masses, the faith element provides some solace for many and provides those that seemingly need a path to follow that very thing. Each to their own I guess.
In terms of Harry and Meghan, it’s never gonna be a simple discussion. Those opposed to them I’d assume are seen as monarchist and ‘faithful’ to the queen; those in support of the pair of them are likely seen as against the monarchy, lacking patriotism etc. In truth all I saw and hear is a family, an extremely dysfunctional family that are in a privileged position, they’ve all fallen out over something we never really know the truth because both sides will only provide snippets of the truth and we all get that.
Sympathy for a bloke saying he’s been cut off financially whilst walking away with nigh on 40m will be thin, equally it’s hard to have sympathy for a family who have recently, very openly protected sex offender. Monarchist or not, impossible to defend, along with various other scandals through the years. Possibly highlight the fact that whilst many seemingly put them on some pedestal to be adored, they in fact just flawed characters like everyone else.
Let’s face it, Lucan disappeared, old queenie was chums with Savile, the DofE, Charles and William have all had mistresses, their brother/uncle is a vile creature, his ex wife a parasite, the suspicious death of the mother of the future king and then all the Panama papers stuff. Like I said, Monarchist or not, those are facts and you can sing your (boring) national anthem but if you can’t see the issues that’s just being blind or ignoring the truth.
I’m sure Harry and Meghan will have a great life, mistakes by both sides have clearly been made but hey, it’s provided an excellent distraction for the government...
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
I don’t remember the bit when Jesus said you mustn’t wear a French Letter on your wotsit. The Catholic Church must have added that to the rules later (I nearly wrote slipped it in but I know you lot would misconstrue it). .
I mean having listened to several Italian friends and watched/read plenty of stuff, much like any large organisation, Catholicism doesn’t just stop at paedophilia.
It’s not that long ago that the Vatican were involved in some extremely shady business dealings in Rome linked to land, cash and the constant fight for power.
..
I agree in part with the pair of you. Catholicism throughout the ages has deviated in part from what Jesus originally came to do which was try to create a better society for all.
As in anything in life human will/construct will get it wrong. Its why and I have huge admiration and love for Pope Francis whose trying to weed out the malignant aspect of the Catholic church. As well as coming down strong on paedophile priests he has also tried to clear up financial irregularities since he became Pope in 2013. Likewise this desire to change things has made him unpopular in some Catholic circles .
The thing I admire about Pope Francis is the way he models himself on St Francis of Assisi the Italian saint that gave up a life of wealth to help the poor in the name of Jesus.
A further example of Pope Francis true sense of authenticity and warmth and his strong belief in Jesus was going to a prison and washing and kissing the feet of prisoners. He done this as he was trying to mimic Jesus in his humbleness before God as Jesus done when he kissed and washed the feet of his 12 apostles.
I agree in part with the pair of you. Catholicism throughout the ages has deviated in part from what Jesus originally came to do which was try to create a better society for all.
As in anything in life human will/construct will get it wrong. Its why and I have huge admiration and love for Pope Francis whose trying to weed out the malignant aspect of the Catholic church. As well as coming down strong on paedophile priests he has also tried to clear up financial irregularities since he became Pope in 2013. Likewise this desire to change things has made him unpopular in some Catholic circles .
The thing I admire about Pope Francis is the way he models himself on St Francis of Assisi the Italian saint that gave up a life of wealth to help the poor in the name of Jesus.
A further example of Pope Francis true sense of authenticity and warmth and his strong belief in Jesus was going to a prison and washing and kissing the feet of prisoners. He done this as he was trying to mimic Jesus in his humbleness before God as Jesus done when he kissed and washed the feet of his 12 apostles.
I never thought I’d say this but please can we talk about the royal family. Seriously: go and find a RC forum and talk to them about it. Very few people care on here.
I never thought I’d say this but please can we talk about the royal family. Seriously: go and find a RC forum and talk to them about it. Very few people care on here.
Ok LH. I was only debating Kingston again on a point I raised with regards to the royal family and the connections the English once had to the Catholic faith. It all went of track from there.
Why do Catholics eat Bacon, and Sausages, and Pork chops, and fish from the sea? Surely Jesus, as a jew, wouldn't have eaten these things because his Dad told jews not to. When did the Catholic church decide to turn a blind eye to this. The big one for me though is the fact that Jesus never talked about his step-dad, the guy that brought him up. Isn't the truth that Jesus was infact some Jewish nutjob who told people that his dad was God and he was conceived immaculately. So he went about preaching some stuff that people then put their own interpretation on to suit their needs and then they tried to rule the world in his name.
Sounds almost like Germany in the thirties.
And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot. No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all. All that was really there was still more misery
Why do Catholics eat Bacon, and Sausages, and Pork chops, and fish from the sea? Surely Jesus, as a jew, wouldn't have eaten these things because his Dad told jews not to. When did the Catholic church decide to turn a blind eye to this. The big one for me though is the fact that Jesus never talked about his step-dad, the guy that brought him up. Isn't the truth that Jesus was infact some Jewish nutjob who told people that his dad was God and he was conceived immaculately. So he went about preaching some stuff that people then put their own interpretation on to suit their needs and then they tried to rule the world in his name.
Sounds almost like Germany in the thirties.
I sense there's a part of you that's trying to get your head round what Jesus said which is good but your way of the mark. Iam not sure about bacon and sausages as Ive never heard that line of reasoning before. Likewise equating Jesus to Germany in the 30s is bordering on madness. Jesus and 1930s Germany are poles apart in ideology's. The equivalent of light and dark. As for Jesus being a madman I think you need to examine your consciousness and read Marks gospel. You will see the earliest gospel is a good account of what Jesus stood for .
Jesus was a radical Jew .I doubt he ever said he was born immaculately. That was more of a symbolic thing in that he said he came from God the mystery where all things originated from at the start of the universe.
Jesus went beyond the rituals of Judaism and tried to follow the source of it all eg God the divine energy that started this whole universe off. Likewise trying to help others do good and follow the right path best sums him up.
This is my last message on the matter but for me its something deep to my heart as Ive seen as stated before that sometimes people need more than Psychology/medicines that heals trauma ,pain and a life of crime. Its this divine/mystery which Jesus touched into that has healed people where no other discipline has.
Why do Catholics eat Bacon, and Sausages, and Pork chops, and fish from the sea? Surely Jesus, as a jew, wouldn't have eaten these things because his Dad told jews not to. When did the Catholic church decide to turn a blind eye to this. The big one for me though is the fact that Jesus never talked about his step-dad, the guy that brought him up. Isn't the truth that Jesus was infact some Jewish nutjob who told people that his dad was God and he was conceived immaculately. So he went about preaching some stuff that people then put their own interpretation on to suit their needs and then they tried to rule the world in his name.
Sounds almost like Germany in the thirties.
If you read the Bible then you know about Fish and Jesus and type a load of dribble. Their has been many truths which do prove of the existence of Jesus on here, and other media, but you have chosen to ignore them. I don't get how you compare Jesus with the rise nazi party, which was exactly the opposite.
I do have to give credit where it due and thank you for your evangelism. I have not read where Jesus "told people that his dad was God and he was conceived immaculately". I am sure many people world wide would like the source of your information.
Jesus is a matter of personal choice and for me Jesus Is Lord. Amen
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
If you read the Bible then you know about Fish and Jesus and type a load of dribble. Their has been many truths which do prove of the existence of Jesus on here, and other media, but you have chosen to ignore them. I don't get how you compare Jesus with the rise nazi party, which was exactly the opposite.
I do have to give credit where it due and thank you for your evangelism. I have not read where Jesus "told people that his dad was God and he was conceived immaculately". I am sure many people world wide would like the source of your information.
Jesus is a matter of personal choice and for me Jesus Is Lord. Amen
A load of dribble? The fish in the story of feeding the 5000 are from the sea of Galilee an inland lake not the actual sea. Secondly did Jesus not say whilst on the cross "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" I'm pretty sure he ain't talking to Joseph also Jesus is explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself. Thats in the Bible by the way. Do religious nutjobs not call the mother of Jesus "the Virgin Mary"
And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot. No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all. All that was really there was still more misery
A load of dribble? The fish in the story of feeding the 5000 are from the sea of Galilee an inland lake not the actual sea. Secondly did Jesus not say whilst on the cross "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" I'm pretty sure he ain't talking to Joseph also Jesus is explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself. Thats in the Bible by the way. Do religious nutjobs not call the mother of Jesus "the Virgin Mary"
Fish are fish are fish, scales fins etc. Which water they swim in is really immaterial. You said that Jesus said that he was conceived immaculately. I have not read that so where is it. The term father is generally used, even today, as in God The Father etc. I believe your reference "Do religious nutjobs not call the mother of Jesus "the Virgin Mary" refers to about 2.4 billion Christians world wide. I don't think 2.4 billion people can all be nutjobs.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I mean we’re ignoring the fact the bible is arguably a simple allegory for leading a ‘good’ life and not a factual representation of something that did or did not happen a few thousand years ago.
It’s a story with plot holes, that much is true. A vicar friend of my wife admits that, hence why the bible, in theory isn’t designed to be read in the traditional sense.
Whilst the conversation has deviated somewhat, God/the Church of England link very much to the royal family, divinity and the likes. Perhaps there’s an element of that involved for Harry? A loss of faith or the ‘forcing’ of faith because he/they are where they are Becauee of some Devine intervention? Who the intercourse knows...
The interview, whatever your beliefs and feelings of the monarchy does support the notion that the media are a flipping disagree for vast swathes of time. The fact a headline reading ‘worst royal crisis in 85 years’ was used, ignoring the fact one of the queens sons was photographed and took part in the sexual abuse of minors (allegedly, but, ya know) and then gave quite possibly one of the worst interviews ever seems unimportant...
I mean the phrase ‘lead by example’ is not something that can be used when it comes to the worthwhile elements of the family...
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
I mean we’re ignoring the fact the bible is arguably a simple allegory for leading a ‘good’ life and not a factual representation of something that did or did not happen a few thousand years ago.
It’s a story with plot holes, that much is true. A vicar friend of my wife admits that, hence why the bible, in theory isn’t designed to be read in the traditional sense.
Whilst the conversation has deviated somewhat, God/the Church of England link very much to the royal family, divinity and the likes. Perhaps there’s an element of that involved for Harry? A loss of faith or the ‘forcing’ of faith because he/they are where they are Becauee of some Devine intervention? Who the intercourse knows...
The interview, whatever your beliefs and feelings of the monarchy does support the notion that the media are a flipping disagree for vast swathes of time. The fact a headline reading ‘worst royal crisis in 85 years’ was used, ignoring the fact one of the queens sons was photographed and took part in the sexual abuse of minors (allegedly, but, ya know) and then gave quite possibly one of the worst interviews ever seems unimportant...
I mean the phrase ‘lead by example’ is not something that can be used when it comes to the worthwhile elements of the family...
It is absolutely amazing that all the newspapers totally failed to print one of the main reasons Harry said they wanted to leave the UK:-
"The Duke of Sussex has said racism from the tabloid press was a large part of the reason why they left the UK"
All the press failed miserably to print this as a headline. The press are very good at printing headlines to sell newspapers, reporting comes a lowly second.
The phrase ‘lead by example’ is not something that can be used when it comes to the worthwhile elements of the press when they want to make a fast couple of quid. The press failed to take any responsibility for Harry leaving and just pushed it onto the Royal family, while they ducked into the undergrowth
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
It is absolutely amazing that all the newspapers totally failed to print one of the main reasons Harry said they wanted to leave the UK:-
"The Duke of Sussex has said racism from the tabloid press was a large part of the reason why they left the UK"
All the press failed miserably to print this as a headline. The press are very good at printing headlines to sell newspapers, reporting comes a lowly second.
The phrase ‘lead by example’ is not something that can be used when it comes to the worthwhile elements of the press when they want to make a fast couple of quid. The press failed to take any responsibility for Harry leaving and just pushed it onto the Royal family, while they ducked into the undergrowth
I think this hits the nail on the head. It was the press that did got Harry’s mother too.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Well, kinda...I mean in the end his dad (official one), his granny and his great granny definitely had a hand in it...
The Queen Mum was on the motorbike with the pap?!
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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